Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[Dropship]

..i do believe America has a part in the end times depending on what views you have about that

Obama gave Iran permission to develop a nuclear industry, the by-products of which could be used to make nuclear bombs.
When Trump became President he scrapped the deal.
Then Biden became Pres and re-instated the deal, should Israel be worried?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If true there will be no such thing as Israel in 25 years, there also in 25 years will be no such thing as Iran. Vain hope at last of good riddance of two of the world's greatest menaces of all time!

 

[ewq1938]

I don't believe so. Why?

I guess you haven't looked at it closely:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

lying:

G5579
pseudos
psyoo'-dos
From G5574; a falsehood: - lie, lying.
Total KJV occurrences: 9

wonders:

G5059
teras
Thayer Definition:
1) a prodigy, portent
2) miracle: performed by any one
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 8:113, 1170



"Lying wonders" is the same as "deceiving miracles".

 

[quietthinker]

So, that means it's ok to base an entire theology on something imaginary and non-biblical? Didn't those same Jews add to God's law, things that they made up? What I am getting from this is to avoid all those who invent things and add them to God's word.

Jesus is the man. Knowing him eclipses just about everything you know about him.

 

[Brakelite]

I guess you haven't looked at it closely:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

lying:

G5579
pseudos
psyoo'-dos
From G5574; a falsehood: - lie, lying.
Total KJV occurrences: 9

wonders:

G5059
teras
Thayer Definition:
1) a prodigy, portent
2) miracle: performed by any one
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 8:113, 1170



"Lying wonders" is the same as "deceiving miracles".

Okay. Excellent. I assume there's a reason you pointed this out?

 

[No Pre-TB]

Though Paul depicted Antichrist as the man of sin, the little horn of Daniel 7 is also the Antichrist, as is also the first beast of Revelation 13. There are definite incontrovertible common characteristics, time frames, and historical links, parallels, between all 3.

Thank you for your response. Though We could debate certain things said, I’d rather focus more on what you call the 1st beast. Where do you find scripture, that concludes without a doubt, the 1st beast (of the sea) is a singular man? And I believe EWQ is going to show you it or something similar as well.

 

[ewq1938]

Okay. Excellent. I assume there's a reason you pointed this out?

Indeed. Look at the two Rev 13 beasts. The AC is the one performing miracles to deceive matching exactly to Paul's man of sin. Which beast of Rev 13 is that??

 

[Nancy]

I wrote this in 2016, and quoted it again in 2020. It still applies.

There are many things I like about Trump, and several things I don't. One thing in his favor is that our own Prime Minister, who is one with the elites of this world, doesn't like him. (Can't remember who that was now...NZ 2016... Before JA.)
But my gravest fear is that he will be used by the Christian evangelical church and the right wing to legislate Christian doctrine. The moment he does that, he will have created an apostate Protestant version/image of the papal beast, the church/state union of the dark ages. (See Revelation 13)
Moral laws uniquely Christian do not work by government enforcement. Legislation must be followed by penalties. It is not the government's prerogative to penalize anyone in their chosen lifestyle in relation to their Creator. John Williams had it right. America, do not go back to those days prior to the constitution and bill of rights when the puritans find, whipped, and even put to death any who disregarded their legalist demands, such a retrograde step will result not in a Christian revival, but in a national trampling upon the religious freedoms of others, which God will judge. Let individual people stand before God for their own religious convictions, whether good or evil, but if you allow the nation to dictate conscience, your nation shall stand in judgement before God.

No different than Sharia Law.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Indeed. Look at the two Rev 13 beasts. The AC is the one performing miracles to deceive matching exactly to Paul's man of sin. Which beast of Rev 13 is that??

@Brakelite you can also just look at Daniel 7. The answer links with Revelation 13.
2 beasts:
1. Beast from sea
2. Beast from the earth

Nations rise from the sea, not men
People rise from the earth. Not nations

Each beast of the sea was a Kingdom type: Babylon, Media Persia, etc
Each kingdom was ruled by a king that rose from the earth: Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc..

The beast from the sea that rises is characterized as parts from 3 previous kingdom types, not men. The kingdom has 10 horns (men with power/authority) ON the beast. The horns are separate. The 11th horn is the one that speaks blasphemy. That horn is a man of sin type and rises from the earth. Daniel 7 vs. 1 and later explains this. In Rev, the beast from the sea is given a mouth (doesn’t become a great orator) that blasphemes. That mouth, is a mouthpiece of a man. The kingdom type is given a mouth to speak profane things when he comes in. There are 2 beasts and only 1 man in the 2. Not an unholy trinity of the AC and some Lieutenant as a false prophet as some teach. Look at both and do a simple comparison.

 

[ewq1938]

Not an unholy trinity of the AC and some Lieutenant as a false prophet as some teach. Look at both and do a simple comparison.

It's also significant that no writer ever said the AC has a second in command type of person.

Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.

Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.

 

[Brakelite]

Where do you find scripture, that concludes without a doubt, the 1st beast (of the sea) is a singular man?

I don't, and if you know anything of Adventist eschayology, you would understand that indeed, as you said above, beasts are political entities... Empires, nations, kingdoms. The difference with this particular beast is it has names of blasphemy upon it's heads. Just as the little horn of Daniel 7 blasphemed. Blasphemy is a religious term, so this beast had a religious and political/face character.

 

[Brakelite]

No different than Sharia Law.

It's called Christian dominionism. The evangelical right, which incorporates most if not all of pentecostal churches, of seeking to put Christians into power. Political power, and pass legislation in harmony with their understanding of scripture. This is a mirror image of the Papacy of the dark ages. And there are pentecostal pastors who are delivering sermons reflecting am increasingly populist Christian movement that is saying that unless you agree to their agenda, you cannot be saved. That if you disagree with the republican party, and suggest that a democrat could be a Christian, you are possessed of demons. This is the beast that is growing to power having 2 horns, ostensibly harmless and without crowns dictating power, but will end up speaking as the dragon, and exercising all the power of the first beast. What was that power?
KJV Revelation 13:7-8
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[No Pre-TB]

I don't, and if you know anything of Adventist eschayology, you would understand that indeed, as you said above, beasts are political entities... Empires, nations, kingdoms. The difference with this particular beast is it has names of blasphemy upon it's heads. Just as the little horn of Daniel 7 blasphemed. Blasphemy is a religious term, so this beast had a religious and political/face character.

Well yes, but the beast of the sea is made up of peoples causing commotion and disturbances in the sea. That disturbance whether political, natural, or other like immigration, war etc..that disturbance gives the rise. The citizens or people groups affiliated use blasphemy. But I’d agree blasphemy in itself is religious, but the ones blaspheming don’t need to be religious. One could blaspheme the HS, the thing not forgiven, and this person be an atheist.

But at least you recognize the heads have no crowns, only hold the name blasphemy. If the beast of the sea doesn’t have a crown, it cannot be the man of sin. Because the beast doesn’t have authority. The horns wear the crowns and are the only ones with authority. So when someone says the beast is the AC, it’s half true. Which beast? The sea or the earth? Only the false prophet can be the man of sin. Otherwise, how many heads does a man have?

 

[Nancy]

It's called Christian dominionism. The evangelical right, which incorporates most if not all of pentecostal churches, of seeking to put Christians into power. Political power, and pass legislation in harmony with their understanding of scripture. This is a mirror image of the Papacy of the dark ages. And there are pentecostal pastors who are delivering sermons reflecting am increasingly populist Christian movement that is saying that unless you agree to their agenda, you cannot be saved. That if you disagree with the republican party, and suggest that a democrat could be a Christian, you are possessed of demons. This is the beast that is growing to power having 2 horns, ostensibly harmless and without crowns dictating power, but will end up speaking as the dragon, and exercising all the power of the first beast. What was that power?
KJV Revelation 13:7-8
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I wonder brother, is this movement named New Apostolic Reformation? I have heard very un biblical things about them and I know an old married couple who were going to a good bible teaching church, they left and are so into this movement!
A Leading Figure In The New Apostolic Reformation

 

[Nancy]

It's also significant that no writer ever said the AC has a second in command type of person.

Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.

Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.

No "two men coming" just the one. Hence why John never mentions Antichrist in Revelation, only the false prophet. "Here is wisdom"! Nobody will hear or see that, at least most do not.

 

[No Pre-TB]

No "two men coming" just the one. Hence why John never mentions Antichrist in Revelation, only the false prophet. "Here is wisdom"! Nobody will hear or see that, at least most do not.

Its quite scary. To think it was said, they came out from us but we’re not of us. These false prophets. The man of sin can very well be the false prophet that unites false Christianity into the beast and away from God, our Lord. After all, a falling away comes first does it not?

 

[Timtofly]

Its quite scary. To think it was said, they came out from us but we’re not of us. These false prophets. The man of sin can very well be the false prophet that unites false Christianity into the beast and away from God, our Lord. After all, a falling away comes first does it not?

The beast and FP are certainly not pre-trib.

 

[Brakelite]

I wonder brother, is this movement named New Apostolic Reformation? I have heard very un biblical things about them and I know an old married couple who were going to a good bible teaching church, they left and are so into this movement!
A Leading Figure In The New Apostolic Reformation

That sounds just like them yes.
This fella isn't a run of the mill back street preacher... He echoes a movement in America and is exactly why I believe America is in big trouble...

 

[Brakelite]

Well yes, but the beast of the sea is made up of peoples causing commotion and disturbances in the sea. That disturbance whether political, natural, or other like immigration, war etc..that disturbance gives the rise. The citizens or people groups affiliated use blasphemy. But I’d agree blasphemy in itself is religious, but the ones blaspheming don’t need to be religious. One could blaspheme the HS, the thing not forgiven, and this person be an atheist.

The seas that the first beast arises from is symbolic for peoples, nations, tribes and tongues, yes.
KJV Revelation 17:1, 15
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.


A highly populated area as opposed to the earth from which the second beast rises.

But at least you recognize the heads have no crowns, only hold the name blasphemy. If the beast of the sea doesn’t have a crown, it cannot be the man of sin.

The first beast has crowns. The first beast is the little horn of Daniel 7, but grown up. The woman riding the beast above is the final version and descriptive, all 3 symbols, the little horn, the composite beast, and the whore, are one and the same entity.
The second beast with 2 horns had no crowns. He is that false prophet who leads the world into submission to the first beast.
Remembering we are talking about political entities here, but with a religious face. Unions of church and state. The first beast, the Papacy. The second, the USA.

 

[Nancy]

That sounds just like them yes.
This fella isn't a run of the mill back street preacher... He echoes a movement in America and is exactly why I believe America is in big trouble...

Yes, America will get what is coming to her finally. Most of our people want nothing to do with truth...trying to sneak in through a different gate. What blows me away is that the couple I have known for decades is falling for it! We are warned over and over again in the bible to avoid these false teachers yet, how easily deceived my friends are to believe and support this stuff. Sad