Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[Brakelite]

That is not the same as Protestants recognizing the RCC as the one true church and/or obeying the Pope's authority. That has been suggested as happening but it is not happening.

Where does the authority originate for Sunday sacredness as a Christian tradition?

 

[ewq1938]

Where does the authority originate for Sunday sacredness as a Christian tradition?

You already know the answer. Christ rose on Sunday, the disciples were taught by Paul on Sunday.

 

[ewq1938]

Protestantism never fully came out from under papal authority.

Nonsense. The Papal has no authority to Protestants.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

You already know the answer. Christ rose on Sunday, the disciples were taught by Paul on Sunday.

Christ did not rise on Sunday. He rose late Saturday afternoon. The false Sunday resurrection tradition is meant to justify the equally false Easter tradition. The scriptures clearly teach a Wednesday crucifixion and a Saturday resurrection. Daniel prophesied that the Messiah would die in the middle of a literal week(Dan. 9:27). That is Wednesday. As it happens, the Passover of A.D. 31 fell on Wednesday.

And since Jesus repeatedly prophesied throughout His ministry that He would be dead for the same amount of time that Jonah was in the fish's belly, the Sunday resurrection myth simply doesn't hold up under biblical scrutiny.

Another thing that doesn't hold up under biblical scrutiny is the myth that Paul taught on Sunday:

"Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures," - Acts 17:2

There is nothing about that statement that says Paul customarily taught anybody on a Sunday. It clearly says Paul customarily taught people on the Sabbath. Every time the Bible mentions Paul doing something on a Sunday, it was within the context of doing something that was considered to be profane work. The only time the Bible ever mentions Paul preaching on a Sunday is in Acts 20:7, and it was because he was delivering a Sabbath sermon that ran into the period of what we would call Saturday night.

Nonsense. The Papal has no authority to Protestants.

It is a known fact that at least most of the Reformers, including Martin Luther, never fully rejected the Catholic traditions and beliefs that they were immersed in. Their problem with the papacy was the ecclesiastical authority, not the religious beliefs/traditions that papacy declared to be Christian. There is plenty of historical evidence that Martin Luther continued to observe the Mass and Eucharist after the Reformation, and he even argued with another Reformer about his unwillingness to give those things up.

The fact that Protestants celebrate many of the same festivals that Catholics do(ex. Christmas, Easter, Halloween) is inherent proof that that they never fully broke away form papal authority. The Reformation was more of a political matter than it was a religious or theological issue.

Protestants have no basis for the things they believe and practice other than the fact that the papacy told them what to believe and practice as Christian centuries ago, even if they don't formally recognize the papacy's direct authority over their churches today.

It is for that reason that Isa. 47:1-8 is being fulfilled where it says Protestant churches will eventually return to their mother church despite their theological differences: Protestantism is nothing more than the result of Catholic theologians who wanted to run their own churches without having to directly answer to the pope. Why do you think the Protestant monarchies in Europe vigorously resisted the Vatican's attempts at gaining religious influence in their countries during the Middle Ages?

 

[ewq1938]

Christ did not rise on Sunday.

Scripture says he did.

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

Saturday/Sabbath was passed...that makes it Sunday.


Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Again, it was early the first day, Sunday.

Mar 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
Mar 16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
Mar 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
Mar 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.


It is Sunday and he has risen.

Mar 16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
Mar 16:8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.


"Jesus was risen early the first day of the week"


Again, Jesus rose early on that Sunday, left the tomb and eventually contacts Mary who had gone to anoint his body but of course he rose a little before she arrived.

Another thing that doesn't hold up under biblical scrutiny is the myth that Paul taught on Sunday

You weren't right about when Christ rose, why would you be right here?

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.



Here it is a Sunday and Paul preached. This is the basis of Christians going to church on a Sunday to hear preaching.

 

[Timtofly]

Christ did not rise on Sunday. He rose late Saturday afternoon. The false Sunday resurrection tradition is meant to justify the equally false Easter tradition. The scriptures clearly teach a Wednesday crucifixion and a Saturday resurrection. Daniel prophesied that the Messiah would die in the middle of a literal week(Dan. 9:27). That is Wednesday. As it happens, the Passover of A.D. 31 fell on Wednesday.

You think the Cross was on a Tuesday?

Jesus was placed in the tomb by Wednesday evening. Because Thursday the Passover was on Thursday in 30AD. So it started at 6pm Wednesday. Jesus would have come out after 6pm on Saturday. No one knows when the stone was moved by some accounts. But they came early on Sunday about sunrise and the Resurrection had already happened. None of the disciples celebrated anything on Saturday evening after dark. What would be the point? It was already Sunday by all accounts.

 

[Brakelite]

Scripture says he did.

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

Saturday/Sabbath was passed...that makes it Sunday.


Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Again, it was early the first day, Sunday.

Mar 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
Mar 16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
Mar 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
Mar 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.


It is Sunday and he has risen.

Mar 16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
Mar 16:8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.


"Jesus was risen early the first day of the week"


Again, Jesus rose early on that Sunday, left the tomb and eventually contacts Mary who had gone to anoint his body but of course he rose a little before she arrived.






You weren't right about when Christ rose, why would you be right here?

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.



Here it is a Sunday and Paul preached. This is the basis of Christians going to church on a Sunday to hear preaching.

While there are as many as 84 Sabbath services recorded in Acts, there is only one mention of the first day, and it does not support Sunday sacredness:
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight (Acts 20:7).

The New English Bible identifies the time:
When the disciples came together to break bread, on the Saturday night in order to assemble for the breaking of bread, Paul, who was to leave the next day, addressed them, and went on speaking until midnight (Acts 20:7 NEB).

An evening meeting is recorded on the first day of the week. This means that since the Sabbath ended at sunset, the first day of the week began according to Bible reckoning. The New English Bible puts it in modern language and uses the words “on Saturday night.” It is recorded that Paul continued his speech until midnight on Saturday.

Evidently, Paul had visited all day Sabbath with them, and was persuaded to stay on that night and speak further. According to Acts 20:11, “talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.”

Paul did not stay on the Sunday, which would have been the case if Sunday was the new Sabbath. Indeed, it was only after the Sabbath that the disciples came together to have a meal together, and Paul spoke to them until daybreak on Sunday morning, and then left on a long journey by foot, an act that would never have been sanctioned on the Sabbath day. The fact that Paul undertook a long journey by foot alone shows that the first day of the week—Sunday was not held in any special regard. The text is thus in support of Sabbath sanctity, rather than Sunday sanctity.

The fact that the disciples broke bread together on the Sunday is often used as a support of Sunday worship. This is however not the case, as the disciples ate together every day of the week. The partaking of communion is not limited to Sunday:
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their food with gladness and singleness of heart (Acts 2:46).

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come (1 Corinthians 11:26).

 

[The Light]

Scripture says he did.

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

Saturday/Sabbath was passed...that makes it Sunday.


Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Again, it was early the first day, Sunday.

Mar 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
Mar 16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
Mar 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
Mar 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.


It is Sunday and he has risen.

Mar 16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
Mar 16:8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.


"Jesus was risen early the first day of the week"


Again, Jesus rose early on that Sunday, left the tomb and eventually contacts Mary who had gone to anoint his body but of course he rose a little before she arrived.

That coffin was nailed shut.

 

[Brakelite]

The original topic about which this thread was based, was on the separation or union, of church and state. Today there is much media attention, particularly in Christian circles, being given to Christian dominionism/nationalism... Establishing the kingdom of God on earth , no doubt with their own denominational traditions. Hence why Adventists are so interested in prophecy... And current events.
The dark ages was an historical period wherein the church lorded it's authority over the state to such an extent that only the religion of the king or prince was to be followed. That religion was often governed by fear. Many examples can be given that reveal Catholic or papal authority was submitted to in order to avoid the inevitable alternative...a charge of heresy followed by excommunication, the loss of the throne and the nation, and often death. This was the same in protestant lands. That union of church and state offered no liberty of conscience, nor any freedom of worship. What the church said goes, and the state would enforce it.

The question we must all ask ourselves, is that what we desire for ourselves today? Is the separation of church and state a valid theory, or is it heresy to be opposed and driven out?
What took place in the 15th century and later to those who wanted freedom and liberty from papal and political tyranny?
The world today is being prepared to honor the Antichrist. The nations are being gathered together on the basis of commonly held fears (climate change, environmental disaster, food shortages, economic collapse, moral decay etc etc) in order to create a new world order. In order to combat this, the evangelical branch of Christianity along with pentecostal churches in America in particular are seeking to establish a biblically based righteous, conservative, Christian government that ostensibly will oppose this globalist one world threat, oppose the Antichrist, and help God establish His kingdom instead. Just like the Papacy claimed to be doing during the dark ages. But of course, the religious laws she enforced through the state were her own interpretations of scripture, which many disagreed with. We know what happened to those dissenters. What will happen to those who disagree with evangelical interpretations of scripture?

 

[ewq1938]

What will happen to those who disagree with evangelical interpretations of scripture?

Nothing will happen.

 

[Brakelite]

Nothing will happen.

Even after those doctrines are legislated through the state?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

SDA=False Cult!

 

[No Pre-TB]

It’s interesting that SDA’s are always trying to convince everyone else what their doing is right; as if they aren’t sure themselves and they need others to agree with them.

Don't deal In conspiracy theories…not good for anyone!

 

[Brakelite]

SDA=False Cult!

It’s interesting that SDA’s are always trying to convince everyone else what their doing is right; as if they aren’t sure themselves and they need others to agree with them.

Don't deal In conspiracy theories…not good for anyone!

Well, if your fellas' ears are itching for stuff more easy to listen to, you're welcome to go elsewhere.

 

[Brakelite]

Don't deal In conspiracy theories…not good for anyone!

You think Christian dominionism is a conspiracy theory? You think the American churches are on the right track by going down the political road? Let's see if you can actually think and contribute something of value and make a conversation.

 

[No Pre-TB]

You think Christian dominionism is a conspiracy theory? You think the American churches are on the right track by going down the political road? Let's see if you can actually think and contribute something of value and make a conversation.

I think Christian nationalism and politics in general is a problem. But I don’t deal in conspiracy theories. I also realize many churches are on the wrong track: Protestant, Baptist, Assembly of God, Catholic, Seventh Day Adventist and so on.

 

[Truth7t7]

SDA=False Cult!

I Agree, Ellen G. White (The False Prophetess)

 

[BarneyFife]

That is not the same as Protestants recognizing the RCC as the one true church and/or obeying the Pope's authority. That has been suggested as happening but it is not happening.

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Is it necessary for Protestants to recognize the RCC as the one true church for them to confederate with them in the issues surrounding the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation?
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[BarneyFife]

I Agree, Ellen G. White (The False Prophetess)

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Have the writings of Mrs. White done something to harm you or someone you know personally or are you indulging in the common, unfortunate, ad hominem bigotry that is so easily wielded to call down fire from heaven upon the imagined and dreaded heretics?
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[BarneyFife]

SDA=False Cult!

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Ah, the "C" word. So handy and hurtful. Nicely done.
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