Hermeneutics vs. "Herd-meneutics"

[farouk]

Israel's history begins with Abraham, Ishmael and 300+ foreigners, (non relatives) all his covenant seed through circumcision. Any not circumcised were cut off and remained gentiles. Moses imported this covenant into the Mosaic Covenant. But the fact remains, circumcision made one a physical Jew and a physical member of Israel. When Jesus abolished circumcision, only the believers were left. The unbelievers were now gentiles to be grafted back into Israel only as believing gentiles. Furthermore, all of the promises of God are yes in Jesus, and no to the unbelievers.

Funny word there, herd-meneutics...

 

[ScottA]

We are still waiting for the rapture coming and the second coming.

I was talking about the total prophetic picture.

"We" may be appropriate for most of Christendom...but not for many who have received Him as having come again already.

"The total prophetic picture" does not include a physical bodily return of Christ, except "Christ in us." Sorry that you did not perceive such a great theme as has been a major part of the new testament witness. It should be clear.

 

[CoreIssue]

"We" may be appropriate for most of Christendom...but not for many who have received Him as having come again already.

"The total prophetic picture" does not include a physical bodily return of Christ, except "Christ in us." Sorry that you did not perceive such a great theme as has been a major part of the new testament witness. It should be clear.

Christ is in us via the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Physically he is still in heaven awaiting the rapture coming and then the physical second coming.

 

[Copperhead]

Israel's history begins with Abraham, Ishmael and 300+ foreigners, (non relatives) all his covenant seed through circumcision. Any not circumcised were cut off and remained gentiles. Moses imported this covenant into the Mosaic Covenant. But the fact remains, circumcision made one a physical Jew and a physical member of Israel. When Jesus abolished circumcision, only the believers were left. The unbelievers were now gentiles to be grafted back into Israel only as believing gentiles. Furthermore, all of the promises of God are yes in Jesus, and no to the unbelievers.

And none of that negates that there is a physical Hebrew people that must collectively acknowledge the offense of rejecting Yeshua, turn to Him, and call for His return... Before He will return.

You are forcing a spiritual application onto a physical identity. Is is allegory applied in violation of the Golden Rule of Hermeneutics.

Your application leads to all sorts of problems. Again, if the church is now Israel, and the church is only made up of the redeemed, then why would the church need to acknowledge the offense of rejecting Yeshua before He will return? Isn’t it a measure of redemption that one accept Yeshua? Why would those who are redeemed by Yeshua be the ones guilty of rejecting Yeshua?

And yet, the scripture is very clear that Israel (both Judah and Israel) must acknowledge the offense of rejecting Yeshua and call on Him to return before He will.

The only way to get out of that quagmire is to ignore or allegorize even more scripture. A very dangerous exercise that can become a never ending downward spiral that can lead to a maze that no one can ever navigate. And the most dangerous part of all.... risk distortion of the Gospel to a point where souls are lost.

No thanks. I will never be able to accept your analysis of these things.

 

[prism]

There was no postponement. The kingdom arrived with him and is here now. But only the born again can see it. Perhaps you and other like minded are not born again? You want a physical kingdom of sight, and not our spiritual kingdom of faith? The pharisees liked your idea of a kingdom too.

Accusations are easy. Our God operates in the physical realm as well (think Incarnation). BTW, thanks for not answering my questions. I'll just take it you are not able.

 

[Phoneman777]

Here's why Historicism is DEAD WRONG.

If the Restrainer was the Roman Empire (which means calling the debauched Roman Empire "holy")

I need to point out that this statement is purely subjective. You assume the restrainer is an agent of holiness...

and if the Papacy was the Man of Sin (which is really stretching the meaning of "man"

Paul's words, "...that the man of God may be perfect..." means only one man of God ever existed, right?

and the meaning of 42 months) then according to the sequence of events in the Bible, we would already be past the Millennium and living in the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness"!

I'm not sure to what "sequence of events" you refer, but Historicism says the 42 month reign of the papacy (1,260 years) ended in 1798, just at the time when the Second Beast was rising in Revelation 13.

Since common sense and ordinary observation of the daily events worldwide tell us that nothing could be further from the truth, that is CONCLUSIVE PROOF that Historicism is as absurd as Preterism or any such fanciful interpretation of Scripture.

Could you please repeat your argument with detailed explanation instead of these general statements of condemnation?

So what you have to prove is that everything listed below has already been fulfilled: Rev 13 -- the Antichrist takes power for 3 1/2 years (Man of Sin)

Yes, the prophetic symbolism says the Antichrist reigns for 3 1/2 years is 1,260 days. The unique consistency of Historicism says that not only are the horns, the heads, the beasts, the water, the earth, etc., symbolic, but time is also symbolic - 1,260 days equals 1,260 years, the exact duration of the reign of the papacy.

So what you have to prove is that everything listed below has already been fulfilled:
Rev 14-18 -- All God's final judgments have been poured out
Rev 19 -- the Marriage of the Lamb has taken placed
Rev 19 -- Christ has descended to earth visibly with all His saints an angels
Rev 19 -- the battle of Armageddon has been finished
Rev 19 -- the Antichrist and the False Prophet are in the Lake of Fire
Rev 20 -- the Millennium has already been accomplished
Rev 20 -- Satan has been cast into the Lake of Fire
Rev 20 -- the Great White Throne Judgment has been finished
Rev 21 -- the New Heavens and New Earth have been established.

Historicism doesn't have to prove any of that to establish itself, especially since Historicism doesn't teach any of that has come to pass yet.

 

[Phoneman777]

Again, it is not a matter if it's Jesuit/ Franciscan, Luther/ Calvin, Aquinas/ Augustine, the matter boils down to 'does it accord with Scripture'?

Protestant Historicism most certainly does. Jesuit Futurism and Jesuit Preterism are so unBiblical that the Protestant Reformation church of the 16th century buried these lies so deep that it took over 300 years for them to resurface - and now foolish "protestants" who are not worthy to be called by that name not only embrace these Jesuit lies but also condemn with bitter disdain the Biblical arguments of Protestant Historicism.

 

[Phoneman777]

"Unanimity" means nothing. You could just as easily say the leaders in Israel were correct about Christ. If the consensus was wrong, it was wrong.

False equivalence. A unanimous unjust condemnation of Jesus for personal gain is not the same thing as an objective unanimous testimony of events of church history - namely that the legacy of Paul's teaching about the restrainer was that it was the Roman Empire.

No, Paul merely said he spoke of it before. But the fact that they were not clear about it and had to be reassured again, is proof that there was no "illumination" on the point.

2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And NOW YE KNOW what withholdeth ("the restrainer") that he (the "man of sin") might be revealed in his (the "man of sin") time.

And now YOU KNOW that Paul told the early church who was the restrainer, and that the ECFs say the early church was teaching that it was the Roman Empire, and that tradition tells us that Christians prayed for Pagan Rome to not fall because they knew that coming "man of sin" was going to really make things rough on them.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi Phoneman,

Please provide these "remarkable" quotes from those Early Church Fathers that back up your statement. I love history and the ECF's but I am not familiar with precisely what you are alluding to. I was hoping you had those quotes ready to cut and paste so I can easily find them instead of doing extensive and time consuming research. Thank you in advance.

Historical Mary

I had several on my old computer but it crashed and I lost a lot, so I'll have to dig up some. They're forthcoming

 

[Enoch111]

Yes, the prophetic symbolism says the Antichrist reigns for 3 1/2 years is 1,260 days. The unique consistency of Historicism says that not only are the horns, the heads, the beasts, the water, the earth, etc., symbolic, but time is also symbolic - 1,260 days equals 1,260 years, the exact duration of the reign of the papacy.

And therein lies the root of the problem. We are to take Bible prophecies LITERALLY, and interpret the symbols according to the Bible revelations themselves.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi Phoneman,

Please provide these "remarkable" quotes from those Early Church Fathers that back up your statement. I love history and the ECF's but I am not familiar with precisely what you are alluding to. I was hoping you had those quotes ready to cut and paste so I can easily find them instead of doing extensive and time consuming research. Thank you in advance.

Historical Mary

Here's a list of ECFs and what they taught about the Antichrist's rise soon after the fall of the Roman Empire, which would then allow for its rise:

Tertulliun, 2nd - 3rd century:

"...he who now hinders must hinder until he be taken out of the way" What obstacle is there but the Roman State, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist..."

(The early church prays for the preservation of the Roman Empire) : "There is also another and a greater necessity for our offering prayer in behalf of the emperors, nay, for the complete stability of the empire, and for Roman interests in general. For we know that a mighty shock (rise of Antichrist) impending over the whole earth--in fact, the very end of all things threatening dreadful woes---is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman empire. We have no desire, then, to be overtaken by these dire events; and in praying that their coming may be delayed, we are lending our aid to Rome's duration.
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Chrysostom, 4th century:

"...'he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way', that is when the Roman Empire is taken ouf of the way, then he [Antichrist] shall come; and naturally, for as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will readily exalt himself; but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarch, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of men and of God."
--------------------------------------------------------------
Augustine, 4th - 5th century:

"...it is not absurd to beleive that these words of the apostle, 'Only he who now holdeth, let him hold until he bge taken out of the way,' refer to the Roman empire..."
---------------------------------------------------------------
Irenaeus, 2nd century:

"John and Daniel have predicted the dissolution and desolation of the Roman Empire, which shall precede the end of the world and the eternal Kingdom of Christ...In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord's disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire (Roman Empire) which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, ...

But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await (those who wish to identify Antichrist in Irenaeus' day), in the first place, the division of the kingdom (Pagan Rome) into ten (barbarian tribes); then, IN THE NEXT PLACE, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he (Antichrist) who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. ..."
--------------------------------------------------------------
Lactantius Firminianous, 4th century:

"These are the things which are spoken of by the prophets as about to happen hereafter: ... The subject itself declares that the fall and ruin of the world will shortly take place; except that while the city of Rome remains it appears that nothing of this kind is to be feared. But when that capital of the world shall have fallen, and shall have begun to be a street, which the Sibyls say shall come to pass, who can doubt that the end has now arrived to the affairs of men and the whole world? It is that city, that only, which still sustains all things; and the God of heaven is to be entreated by us and implored -- if, indeed, His arrangements and decrees can be delayed -- lest, sooner than we think for, that detestable tyrant (Antichrist) should come who will trader-take so great a deed, and dig out that eye, by the destruction of which the world itself is about to fall.
--------------------------------------------------------------
St. Jerome, 4th - 5th century:

"... We should therefore concur with the traditional interpretation of all the commentators of the Christian Church, that at the end of the world, when the Roman Empire is to be destroyed, there shall be ten kings who will partition the Roman world amongst themselves. Then an insignificant eleventh king (Antichrist) will arise, who will overcome three of the ten kings, ..."


There are more examples here of testimony of the ECFs that the prevailing teaching about the Restrainer was NOT SOME AGENT OF HOLINESS, but that it was the Pagan Roman Empire.

Early Church Fathers on the Timing of the Rise of Antichrist
Early Church Fathers Were Historicist – H. Grattan Guinness

 

[Phoneman777]

And therein lies the root of the problem. We are to take Bible prophecies LITERALLY, and interpret the symbols according to the Bible revelations themselves.

Bro, I've got SEVERAL PRECEDENTS set for the "each day for a year" principle. You've not got a single precedent for your Jesuit "gap" theory in Daniel 9. Can you see why it's difficult for me to accept your criteria?

 

[ScottA]

Christ is in us via the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Physically he is still in heaven awaiting the rapture coming and then the physical second coming.

Sorry, but that is a gross departure from the biblical truth and reality that God is spirit and Jesus has joined the Father in that glory...which is not physical, not flesh and blood, but spiritual.

 

[CoreIssue]

Sorry, but that is a gross departure from the biblical truth and reality that God is spirit and Jesus has joined the Father in that glory...which is not physical, not flesh and blood, but spiritual.

Indeed the father is a spirit as is the Holy Spirit.

The second person of God in Jesus spirit also. But Jesus is flesh. When he appeared to Mary and the apostles he was flesh. When he comes in the second coming it will be as flesh.

At the resurrection our flesh will rejoin our spirit and be glorified flesh for eternity, just as the flesh of Christ is.

 

[prism]

Protestant Historicism most certainly does. Jesuit Futurism and Jesuit Preterism are so unBiblical that the Protestant Reformation church of the 16th century buried these lies so deep that it took over 300 years for them to resurface - and now foolish "protestants" who are not worthy to be called by that name not only embrace these Jesuit lies but also condemn with bitter disdain the Biblical arguments of Protestant Historicism.

I'm sorry, but your 'Jesuit this', 'Jesuit that' make you sound no better than a conspiracy type out of a Chick Tract.
Can you tell me what is wrong with Biblical Futurism without dragging the Jesuits into the conversation? You know the very early Church were Premillennialists as well as the Apostles in Acts chap 1?

 

[Copperhead]

"We" may be appropriate for most of Christendom...but not for many who have received Him as having come again already.

"The total prophetic picture" does not include a physical bodily return of Christ, except "Christ in us." Sorry that you did not perceive such a great theme as has been a major part of the new testament witness. It should be clear.

Until one looks at Hosea 5:14 - Hosea 6:2 and Matthew 23:39. Yeshua made is quite clear that He would return to His place and not come back UNTIL (the operative word here) collective Jacob (Judah and Israel) acknowledge their offense of rejecting Him and petition for His return and the reference is to the Messianic Psalms 118, which is a call for Messiah when the nations are surrounding Israel and Yeshua specifically refers to verse 26.

So one can do the spiritualizing gig all that want regarding Yeshua and deny a physical return, but He sure had that in mind when He spoke in Hosea and Matthew. So now one has to decide if Yeshua was a liar when He stated those things or was just having some fun at everyone's expense.

And the Davidic Covenant has yet to be realized. Yeshua has yet to physically reign over Jerusalem and the land in the authority of King David's lineage. 2 Samuel 7. That is an unconditional covenant YHVH made with David that no one on this planet can ever abrogate. It was the promise of YHVH. And the previous verses above set the conditions of Yeshua's coming again to accomplish that.

Probably why so many folks are ready to jump on the of "there are no physical Jews anymore" mantra so they can do a theology end run around inconvenient passages like Hosea 5-6 and Matthew 23. Oh well, Goebbels said that if you tell a lie big enough and repeat it often, eventually it will be perceived as the truth.

When one starts down a spiritualizing of scripture, one almost has to negotiate a minefield of allegorizing scripture or ignoring scripture altogether to the point where things are such a convoluted mess that it is unrecognizable. It becomes a maze that becomes almost a hermeneutics gymnastic event with all sorts of wild twists and turns.

And it really distorts the simple, pure Gospel of Yeshua.

But some folks just have a fun time doing that. I'll stick with the Golden Rule of Hermeneutics... when the plain sense of a scripture passage makes sense, then seek no other sense, lest one end up with nonsense.

 

[Enoch111]

Bro, I've got SEVERAL PRECEDENTS set for the "each day for a year" principle.

That may be, but when you bring all the Scriptures together relating to the 42 months, one cannot escape a literal 42 months of 30 prophetic days each (which equals a literal 3 1/2 years).

We have the following descriptions all applied to the same period:
1. Time, times, and half a time (or the dividing of time)
2. One thousand two hundred and three score days
3. Forty and two months
1260 days/30 = 42 months/12 = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 yrs) + half a time (6 months).

And he [the Antichrist] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Dan 7:25)

Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Dan 8:13,14)

Also 2,300 days/30 = 76.67 months/12 = 6.39 years = 6 yrs and 5 mths (approx). Daniel's 70th week = 7 years, and the Lord said that the Great Tribulation would be shortened for the sake of the elect, so we have less than seven years.

And he [the prince that shall come = the Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [7 years]: and in the midst of the week [3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Dan 9:27)

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31)

And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. (Dan 12:6,7)

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses [Moses and Elijah], and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:2,3)

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev 11:6)
[NOTE: Elijah appears in Rev 11. He originally shut heaven for exactly 3 1/2 years: Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. (James 5:17)]

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (Rev 12:6)

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:4,5)

 

[CoreIssue]

That may be, but when you bring all the Scriptures together relating to the 42 months, one cannot escape a literal 42 months of 30 prophetic days each (which equals a literal 3 1/2 years).

We have the following descriptions all applied to the same period:
1. Time, times, and half a time (or the dividing of time)
2. One thousand two hundred and three score days
3. Forty and two months
1260 days/30 = 42 months/12 = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 yrs) + half a time (6 months).

And he [the Antichrist] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Dan 7:25)

Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Dan 8:13,14)

Also 2,300 days/30 = 76.67 months/12 = 6.39 years = 6 yrs and 5 mths (approx). Daniel's 70th week = 7 years, and the Lord said that the Great Tribulation would be shortened for the sake of the elect, so we have less than seven years.

And he [the prince that shall come = the Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [7 years]: and in the midst of the week [3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Dan 9:27)

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31)

And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. (Dan 12:6,7)

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses [Moses and Elijah], and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:2,3)

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev 11:6)
[NOTE: Elijah appears in Rev 11. He originally shut heaven for exactly 3 1/2 years: Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. (James 5:17)]

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (Rev 12:6)

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:4,5)

The NIV is much clearer and accurate. As in says 1260 days.

The 2300 days is from mid trib to the rededication of the Temple.

If the tribulation was not shortened it would be longer than seven. Seven years is not shortened version.

The woman will flee to the ancient city of Petra, a city carved into solid rock. Also figurative of Christ, who is Petra.

People trying to use the archaic English of the KJV struggle with accuracy and clarity. We simply don't talk that way now.Not to mention many words have changed in meaning.

Older translations fell out of use and popularity to be replaced by the KJV. Now the KJV is falling out of use and popularity to be replaced by the NIV and NASB.

Sort of minimum cross-reference Bibles. Which does not mean cross-reference Bibles based on the KJV.

 

[Enoch111]

"The total prophetic picture" does not include a physical bodily return of Christ, except "Christ in us."

Well you have missed the bulk of the prophetic picture. If the Second Coming was not a physical bodily return of Christ "with power and great glory", then every eye on the face of the earth could not see Him, and then weep and wail and mourn because the wrath of the Lamb has come:

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Rev 6:15-17)

 

[Davy]

Until one looks at Hosea 5:14 - Hosea 6:2 and Matthew 23:39. Yeshua made is quite clear that He would return to His place and not come back UNTIL (the operative word here) collective Jacob (Judah and Israel) acknowledge their offense of rejecting Him and petition for His return and the reference is to the Messianic Psalms 118, which is a call for Messiah when the nations are surrounding Israel and Yeshua specifically refers to verse 26.

That must be some modern doctrine of Judaism, because that is a gross twist of Scripture!

Hos 5:14-6:3
14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
15 I will go and return to My place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek My face: in their affliction they will seek Me early.

God through Hosea prophesied how He would scatter Ephraim and hedge up their paths so they wouldn't know how to return. Ephraim here represents the ten northern tribes, not Judah. God scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel first, apart from Judah. Judah remained in the land, and then later rebelled also. It was the ten tribes mainly this is to, as they were torn away from Jerusalem and the lands of Israel, lost to both themselves and to Judah. God preserved a remnant of Judah. These God says will seek His face early is mostly about the ten lost tribes scattered to new lands, along with converts from Judah, and The Gospel preached to them, and they would believe, and flourish in their new lands.


Hosea 6
6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for He hath torn, and He will heal us; He hath smitten, and He will bind us up.
2 After two days will He revive us: in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: His going forth is prepared as the morning; and He shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth
KJV

Again, this is about Christianity, not Judaism believing on Jesus Christ.

In Romans 9, Apostle Paul quoted from Hosea to Roman Gentile believers on Christ Jesus. He quoted how through Christ they who once were not a people unto God have become the sons of the living God. So this is about Christ and Christianity, not a requirement of Jews to turn to Jesus Christ before His second coming can occur!