Hidden in plain sight: Why I believe this about the Revelation

[marks]

So why do you imply that the words "Amils don't even realize" is accusing Amils of purposefully doing it, if not to start an argument?

You are not a mind reader, and when you act like you are, the discussion goes off the rails.

Whether someone does or does not realize something is not for you to say. Discussions go haywire for lack of proper bounderies for decent discussion. You don't insult others. You don't insult what they believe. You don't act like they are idiots, or ignorant, or deceptive. They may have thought of everything you've thought of, and have discarded it as not believable. They may think that you lack realization, or whatever. Good discussion is not made from sharing negative opinions based on your perceptions and biases.

You hear what they have to say, and respond to that. Not to share whatever malign opinions you have of others.

I hope you can hear this!

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

You are not a mind reader, and when you act like you are, the discussion goes off the rails.

Whether someone does or does not realize something is not for you to say. Discussions go haywire for lack of proper bounderies for decent discussion. You don't insult others. You don't insult what they believe. You don't act like they are idiots, or ignorant, or deceptive. They may have thought of everything you've thought of, and have discarded it as not believable. They may think that you lack realization, or whatever. Good discussion is not made from sharing negative opinions based on your perceptions and biases.

You hear what they have to say, and respond to that. Not to share whatever malign opinions you have of others.

I hope you can hear this!

Much love!

Me and @Spiritual Israelite sorted it out. No need to be the nanny on the field (no one's in the mood for your picking a fight mode today anyway, Try clicking a different button on your screen and see if that works to get you to change into a less hostile mode).

Have a good day.

 

[marks]

Me and @Spiritual Israelite sorted it out. No need to be the nanny on the field (no one's in the mood for your picking a fight mode today anyway, Try clicking a different button on your screen and see if that works to get you to change into a less hostile mode).

Have a good day.

It's up to you whether you will hear this or not. This is not a personal attack, it's metacommunication.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

It's up to you whether you will hear this or not.

Much love!

It's up to you whether you will hear this or not.

God bless you Mark. And try not to be hostile, trying to pick a fight (Matthew 7:4).

 

[WPM]

I agree. I've said this to you before, but I will say it again here - and I'm really glad you helped me in your other post in another thread - because this below implies silencing:

"And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled."

In Genesis chapter 3, we read of how Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and deceived mankind.
Revelation 12:9 calls Satan "the great dragon" and "the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world."
The reason given for Satan being bound in Revelation 20:1-3 is that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years have expired.

If we look for statements in the New Testament implying that Satan was bound when Jesus died and rose again, all we will ever find is passages stating the opposite:

* Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world"; and the New Testament calls him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will
* give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13).
* The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).
* Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

There's no silencing of Satan with regard to his deceiving of the world implied in any of the above, and Revelation Chapters 12-13, as you point out, portrays this current status quo as spanning the entire present Age and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).

The Amil arguments about this are EXTREMELY weak, IMO. "Binding the strong man" (Mark 3:22-27) would require Satan to be bound so that he was unable to deceive the nations until the millennium was over BEFORE the man who was delivered of demon possession could be delivered - every time someone was delivered from demon-possession.

But "the house" in Jesus' parable represents the demon-possessed man out of whom Jesus had cast out demons (not "the nations"). And it has nothing to do with Satan's deception of the nations.

Their other main argument is equally weak: The destruction of Satan's works (his power over death) will not last only for a thousand years and be "reversed" for a short period at the close of the thousand years (as though Satan's works were merely "bound" for a thousand years).​

The problem is: you attribute a meaning to Rev 20 that is out sync with the rest of Scripture. Your understanding is non-corroborative.

So,

(1) I believe Premils attribute something to Revelation 20 that is not in the reading.
(2) They ignore the fact that Scripture repeatedly identifies the Messianic intra-Advent period as a time of enlightenment for the Gentiles. This does not in any way insinuate that all will be saved. Not in any way. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years.
(3) This does not suggest a time of no deception, only a time where Satan cannot deceive the Gentiles like he once did.
(4) Those within the Premil camp that dismiss this concept forget that the binding of Satan in their paradigm equally doesn’t stop many being personally deceived in their millennium. The fact that billions arise to surround the saints at the end is evidence that this enlightenment is a general opening of the Gospel to the nations.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Scripture often makes broad general sweeping statements. When Scripture tells us that the Gentiles would no longer be deceived it does not mean every single one of them, or even most of them, would be saved, just that the ignorance would be finally lifted from the darkened Gentiles. This relates to the Gospel light going out to the Gentiles (ethnos). Before the cross they were in darkness; now they are enlightened. The answer to darkness every time is light.

With the Lord’s First Advent, the light began to shine brightly. Jesus confronted, overcame and dispelled the darkness at every turn. Satan was defeated on his own turf. Jesus bound Satan in spiritual chains. He limited his authority and influence over the Gentile nations and invaded his kingdom with the truth. Now the rest of the world has the opportunity to repent and receive deliverance and freedom. Satan's authority to deceive has been broken over countless millions since Calvary.

Isaiah 9:1-2 predicted the Messiah and the massive effective of the spread of the Gospel to the nations: “the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.”

This historic change that would move the Gentile from darkness to light, from ignorance to enlightenment, from being thoroughly deceived to being able to repent and embrace Christ, marked a massive turning point for mankind.

Matthew 4:13-16 confirms this fulfilment: “leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.”

Matthew here refers to Isaiah 9:1-2. The light began to shine began to shine bright through the earthly ministry of Christ, it spread out to the darkened nations after the cross through the great commission. Truth was boldly preached, and ignorance was removed from the Gentiles.

The Gentiles who “sat in darkness” have now “saw great light” (Matthew 4:15) since and through the earthly ministry of Christ and His glorious life, death, and resurrection. Light has been revealed to a people that were once hopelessly deceived. They can now no longer claim ignorance. If Gentiles want salvation it is now there for them. The veil of deception has been decisively lifted off the heathen.

There was a large effectual door of opportunity opened up after Christ’s mission to earth that involved evangelizing the darkened heathen ethnos (or Gentile nations) for the first time. This was a complete change of focus and a notable widening out of the racial target-group. From a near totally Jewish Church, to a near totally Gentile Church, was a massive change of fortunes. The door of opportunity was closed to every Gentile village, town, city and nation before the cross outside of one city - Nineveh.

We find Christ’s mission in John 1:1-4: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

Jesus continued in John 1:10-12: “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”

Did all the Jews reject Him? No! This is simply generality!

Jesus came to shine a light of truth into the world. The Lord Himself declared in John 8:12, “I am the light of the world, he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”

1Jn 1:7 if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Spiritual ignorance is a terrible affliction. The only thing worse is spiritual enlightenment and a refusal to act upon that. That is ultimate rebellion.

Once the Word of God is allowed to shine the darkness is exposed. People gain revelation. Ignorance is removed. Direction is given. Decisions then have to be made. It is a very blessed thing to have the Word of God faithfully preach to you. But it is also a very sobering thing, because with it comes responsibility.

So, through the great commission, the ethnos (Gentiles) are no longer deceived. That is simply what Revelation 20:2 is saying. It is not rocket science!

 

[marks]

It's up to you whether you will hear this or not.

God bless you Mark. And try not to be hostile, trying to pick a fight (Matthew 7:4).

You shouldn't mistake correction for hostility. I tell you these things for your good. If you pay attention you will become a much better communicator, without the distractions.

Much love!

 

[WPM]

You're right about the fact that we may as well never talk about this again because we will just keep talking past one another.

Acts 26:17-18 "I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you , to open their eyes so that they turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me."

The fact that Jesus linked darkness to the power of Satan in His above word to Paul, and the fact that he linked Gentiles turning from darkness to light to them being delivered from the power of Satan to God, is already problematic to your linking it to the BINDING of Satan so that he is (completely) prevented (as Revelation 20:3 certainly implies) from deceiving the nations anymore, for a thousand years.

Jesus is not even for one second saying that Satan has no power - in fact He's linking Satan's power to his deception of the nations and the Gentiles in the nations, to whom He was about to send Paul "to open their eyes so that they turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God."
​

Ever since then all Gentiles in the nations who have heard the gospel, believed and repented, have been turned from darkness to light and hence, from the power of Satan to God

- but only if every single Gentile in the nations who heard Paul's preaching turned to Christ in Paul's days (and ever since then),

and only if all other religions and beliefs in things that prevent Gentiles in the nations from turning to God have been completely destroyed in the process, can it be said that Satan has no power because he is unable to deceive the nations

- which is the only thing that Revelation 20:3 links the binding of Satan to.

Nothing in the New Testament says this destroying of all Satan's deceptions (hence his power that Christ was linking his deceptions of darkness to) HAS ALREADY HAPPENED, but what the New Testament DOES say is that this WILL happen once Christ has returned and defeated the beast and its / his false prophet.
​

What you are saying and continue to say about this implies that Satan was bound and UNABLE to deceive the nations when Christ began to save Gentiles through Paul's evangelism, and has not been able to deceive the nations since then till now.

So because it's clear that the scriptures themselves nor anyone else will ever convince you that Satan's binding has nothing to do with anything other than what Revelation 20:3 links it to - his deception of the nations (which you believe has already taken place in the way Revelation 20:3 implies) - you and I may as well never talk about this again because we will just keep talking past one another.​

We see the with special assignment Jesus gave Paul in Acts 26:17-18: “Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”

Did this mean the deception that blinded the Gentiles would be finally be lifted from all the darkened Gentiles? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Jesus, here, directly links the spiritual darkness enveloping the Gentiles to the power of Satan. He connects the Gentiles turning from darkness to light through the advance of the great commission to the deliverance of the Gentiles from the bondage or chains of Satan. This is how the gross darkness would be (and was) removed that hung over the Gentiles throughout the old covenant period. This is how they were delivered from the power of Satan to God to liberty in Christ.

For this to happen, a stronger than the strongman had come and confront Satan, spiritually bind him and strip him of his power and his wholesale influence over the Gentiles. The devil had no answer (and has no answer) to the truth of God.

 

[Zao is life]

The problem is: you attribute a meaning to Rev 20 that is out sync with the rest of Scripture. Your understanding is non-corroborative.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Isaiah 9:1-2 predicted the Messiah and the massive effective of the spread of the Gospel to the nations: “the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.”

Isaiah 9 (a prophecy about Israel and Judah in the day Israel was about to attack Judah (8th century BC):

8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
9 And all the people shall know, even Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria, that say in the pride and stoutness of heart,
10 The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.
11 Therefore Yhwh shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together;
12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
13 For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek Yhwh of Armies.
14 Therefore Yhwh will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.
15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Isaiah 9:1-7
1 Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.
2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy. They joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian.
5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Yhwh of Armies will perform this.

Matthew Henry:
Three things are here promised, and they all point ultimately at the grace of the gospel, which the saints then were to comfort themselves with the hopes of in every cloudy and dark day, as we now are to comfort ourselves in time of trouble with the hopes of Christ's second coming, though that be now, as his first coming then was, a thing at a great distance. The mercy likewise which God has in store for his church in the latter days may be a support to those that are mourning with her for her present calamities. We have here the promise,
1. Of a glorious light, ...

It has nothing to do with the binding of Satan but of the promise of hope and light dawning for God's elect even in the midst of days of the darkest gloom, which Jesus said Satan is responsible for, calling him "the ruler of this world"; and whom the New Testament calls "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13).

The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

Revelation Chapters 12-13 portray this current status quo as spanning the entire present Age and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).

The works of darkness in the world are the works of Satan and they are his deception of the nations.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The problem is: you attribute a meaning to Rev 20 that is out sync with the rest of Scripture. Your understanding is non-corroborative.

So,

(1) I believe Premils attribute something to Revelation 20 that is not in the reading.
(2) They ignore the fact that Scripture repeatedly identifies the Messianic intra-Advent period as a time of enlightenment for the Gentiles. This does not in any way insinuate that all will be saved. Not in any way. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years.
(3) This does not suggest a time of no deception, only a time where Satan cannot deceive the Gentiles like he once did.
(4) Those within the Premil camp that dismiss this concept forget that the binding of Satan in their paradigm equally doesn’t stop many being personally deceived in their millennium. The fact that billions arise to surround the saints at the end is evidence that this enlightenment is a general opening of the Gospel to the nations.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Scripture often makes broad general sweeping statements. When Scripture tells us that the Gentiles would no longer be deceived it does not mean every single one of them, or even most of them, would be saved, just that the ignorance would be finally lifted from the darkened Gentiles. This relates to the Gospel light going out to the Gentiles (ethnos). Before the cross they were in darkness; now they are enlightened. The answer to darkness every time is light.

With the Lord’s First Advent, the light began to shine brightly. Jesus confronted, overcame and dispelled the darkness at every turn. Satan was defeated on his own turf. Jesus bound Satan in spiritual chains. He limited his authority and influence over the Gentile nations and invaded his kingdom with the truth. Now the rest of the world has the opportunity to repent and receive deliverance and freedom. Satan's authority to deceive has been broken over countless millions since Calvary.

Isaiah 9:1-2 predicted the Messiah and the massive effective of the spread of the Gospel to the nations: “the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.”

This historic change that would move the Gentile from darkness to light, from ignorance to enlightenment, from being thoroughly deceived to being able to repent and embrace Christ, marked a massive turning point for mankind.

Matthew 4:13-16 confirms this fulfilment: “leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.”

Matthew here refers to Isaiah 9:1-2. The light began to shine began to shine bright through the earthly ministry of Christ, it spread out to the darkened nations after the cross through the great commission. Truth was boldly preached, and ignorance was removed from the Gentiles.

The Gentiles who “sat in darkness” have now “saw great light” (Matthew 4:15) since and through the earthly ministry of Christ and His glorious life, death, and resurrection. Light has been revealed to a people that were once hopelessly deceived. They can now no longer claim ignorance. If Gentiles want salvation it is now there for them. The veil of deception has been decisively lifted off the heathen.

There was a large effectual door of opportunity opened up after Christ’s mission to earth that involved evangelizing the darkened heathen ethnos (or Gentile nations) for the first time. This was a complete change of focus and a notable widening out of the racial target-group. From a near totally Jewish Church, to a near totally Gentile Church, was a massive change of fortunes. The door of opportunity was closed to every Gentile village, town, city and nation before the cross outside of one city - Nineveh.

John 1:1-4: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

Jesus said in John 1:10-12: “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”

Did all the Jews reject Him? No! This is simply generality!

Jesus came to shine a light of truth into the world. The Lord Himself declared in John 8:12, “I am the light of the world, he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”

1Jn 1:7 if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Spiritual ignorance is a terrible affliction. The only thing worse is spiritual enlightenment and a refusal to act upon that. That is ultimate rebellion.

Once the Word of God is allowed to shine the darkness is exposed. People gain revelation. Ignorance is removed. Direction is given. Decisions then have to be made. It is a very blessed thing to have the Word of God faithfully preach to you. But it is also a very sobering thing, because with it comes responsibility.

So, through the great commission, the ethnos (Gentiles) are no longer deceived. That is simply what Revelation 20:2 is saying. It is not rocket science!

Agree. I don't think Premills realize just how different things have been in New Testament times compared to Old Testament times. There was so much spiritual darkness in the world in Old Testament times that it led Paul to say this about the Gentiles of those times...

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Of course, there were a few exceptions, but not enough to keep Paul from saying that the Gentiles, before Christ came, had "no hope" and were "without God in the world". That changed drastically in New Testament times. As Paul said "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ". Christ made it so that it went from few Gentiles being saved in Old Testament times to "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Revelation 7:9) being saved in New Testament times. That could not have happened if Jesus did not take the power of death away from Satan in order to set "a great multitude, which no man could number" free from being slaves to the fear of death (Hebrews 2:14-15).

 

[WPM]

Isaiah 9 (a prophecy about Israel and Judah in the day Israel was about to attack Judah (8th century BC):

8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
9 And all the people shall know, even Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria, that say in the pride and stoutness of heart,
10 The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.
11 Therefore Yhwh shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together;
12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
13 For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek Yhwh of Armies.
14 Therefore Yhwh will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.
15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Isaiah 9:1-7
1 Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.
2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.*n2
4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian.
5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Yhwh of Armies will perform this.

Matthew Henry:
Three things are here promised, and they all point ultimately at the grace of the gospel, which the saints then were to comfort themselves with the hopes of in every cloudy and dark day, as we now are to comfort ourselves in time of trouble with the hopes of Christ's second coming, though that be now, as his first coming then was, a thing at a great distance. The mercy likewise which God has in store for his church in the latter days may be a support to those that are mourning with her for her present calamities. We have here the promise,
1. Of a glorious light, ...

It has nothing to do with the binding of Satan but of the promise of hope and light dawning for God's elect even in the midst of days of the darkest gloom, which Jesus said Satan is responsible for, calling him "the ruler of this world"; and whom the New Testament calls "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13).

The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

Revelation Chapters 12-13 portray this current status quo as spanning the entire present Age and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).

The works of darkness in the world are the works of Satan and are his deception of the nations.

Through the great commission, the ethnos (Gentiles) are no longer deceived. That is simply what Revelation 20:2 is saying. It is not rocket science!

• Deception in Scripture is equated to blindness, ignorance, darkness and imprisonment.
• Enlightenment, on the other hand, is equated to sight, understanding, revelation and freedom.

You will see this pattern throughout the Old and the New Testaments.

Listen to what Colossians 1:13 says: God “hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.”

Ephesians 5:8: "ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light."

1 Peter 2:9: "ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light."

Even during Christ’s earthly ministry, the Gospel had to first go to the Jews. It was largely limited to national Israel. Gentiles were classed as unclean throughout the old covenant ceremonial system.

Jesus said in John 8:12 “I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

John 12:46 "I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.”

He shined the light and it dispelled the darkness. In fact, wherever this light shines it removes ignorance and deception and enlightens and sets men free. No one could surely deny that this light has been shining strong upon the Gentiles for 2,000 year. The evidence is there for all to see.

Through the indwelling Holy Spirit (who reveals Christ in us), and the preaching of the Word of God, The Church now manifest that light throughout the nations. God has availed the Gentiles an opportunity to embrace the light. They are no longer without excuse. It is not therefore a question of whether the light came, or that it exists, but will the Gentiles receive it and believe it.

1 John 2:8: “the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.”

A result of the first Advent and the life, death and first resurrection of Jesus was that the ignorance was removed, the Gospel opportunity was widened out to the Gentiles. They no longer sat in darkness, ignorance and hopelessness deceived by the devil in their paganism.

 

[Zao is life]

Agree. I don't think Premills realize just how different things have been in New Testament times compared to Old Testament times. There was so much spiritual darkness in the world in Old Testament times that it led Paul to say this about the Gentiles of those times...

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

The reason I disagree with the above is because the above all depends entirely and solely on the power of God and of Christ and of the Holy Spirit, and not on the power of Satan. nor on whether or not he is still permitted by God until Christ returns to deceive the nations to "the best of his ability".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The reason I disagree with the above is because the above all depends entirely and solely on the power of God and of Christ and of the Holy Spirit, and not on the power of Satan. nor on whether or not he is still permitted by God until Christ returns to deceive the nations to "the best of his ability".

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. In my view, it is the power of God and of Christ and of the Holy Spirit that bound Satan so that the gospel, which is "the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16) could go out to the world while bringing light into a dark world with Satan not being able to stop that from happening.

 

[Zao is life]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. In my view, it is the power of God and of Christ and of the Holy Spirit that bound Satan so that the gospel, which is "the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16) could go out to the world while bringing light into a dark world with Satan not being able to stop that from happening.

No. Satan is not able to come between the Holy Spirit and individual humans being called of God to Christ by the Spirit of God, so as to overcome God. He did not need to be bound.

He has always been permitted by God to make an attempt to put a stop to someone coming to faith in Christ, and to steal the one who belongs to Christ away from Christ. But he is not able to overcome God and did not need to be bound and what God did in Christ had this effect on Satan:

It destroyed the indictment (the law which convicted the brethren) which he used to accuse them.
It destroyed his power over death.

Defeated - completely. Powerless to stop it because it was already done - and he is powerless to stop the Holy Spirit from calling individuals to salvation and imparting faith in Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. Satan is not able to come between the Holy Spirit and individual humans being called of God to Christ by the Spirit of God, so as to overcome God. He did not need to be bound.

I'm saying that it was bound him. But, we don't have the same understanding of what it means for him to be bound. You see his binding as being like a literal, physical binding that makes him completely incapacitated, right?

He has always been permitted by God to make an attempt to put a stop to someone coming to faith in Christ, and to steal the one who belongs to Christ away from Christ. But he is not able to overcome God and did not need to be bound and what God did in Christ had this effect on Satan:

It destroyed the indictment (the law which convicted the brethren) which he used to accuse them.
It destroyed his power over death.

Defeated - completely. Powerless to stop it because it was already done - and he is powerless to stop the Holy Spirit from calling individuals to salvation and imparting faith in Christ.

But, he was not powerless to stop people from being slaves to the fear of death while having "no hope" in Old Testament times because he had the power of death in those times. I believe he had to be bound spiritually by having the power of death taken away from him so that the gospel would go out into the world, setting "a great multitude, which no man could number" free from having no hope and being slaves to the fear of death and instead having the hope of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

We're just never going to agree about this as long as our understanding of what Satan's binding accomplishes is not the same.

 

[WPM]

No. Satan is not able to come between the Holy Spirit and individual humans being called of God to Christ by the Spirit of God, so as to overcome God. He did not need to be bound.

He has always been permitted by God to make an attempt to put a stop to someone coming to faith in Christ, and to steal the one who belongs to Christ away from Christ. But he is not able to overcome God and did not need to be bound and what God did in Christ had this effect on Satan:

It destroyed the indictment (the law which convicted the brethren) which he used to accuse them.
It destroyed his power over death.

Defeated - completely. Powerless to stop it because it was already done - and he is powerless to stop the Holy Spirit from calling individuals to salvation and imparting faith in Christ.

The Gentiles sat in darkness (outside of God's plan of salvation with a few occasional exceptions) prior to the cross, after the cross salvation visited the nations and light shone in darkness. The light has been shining on the nations for near 2,000 years – the darkness has been dispelled. The deception is gone and the truth is available, however, whilst the general deception has been lifted and the Gospel opportunity is now available to the Gentiles, individuals must personal take a hold of Christ for salvation to be a reality.

Isaiah 60:1-3 says, “Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.”

Even with these general statements, when Scripture speaks of the enlightenment of the Gentiles it doesn’t suggest that every individual Gentile will be saved. No. It is demonstrating that this grouping that was once outside of the Gospel message, and therefore hope, would now be subjected to the light of truth. Anyway, Satan and demons don't deceive nations, they deceive people within the nations. Satan and demons don't inhabit nations, they inhabit people within the nations. Before Christ’s earthy ministry there was a blanket of deception over the Gentiles. Entire nations were deceived. That is no longer the case. Satan fell from high and lofty place.

Isaiah 61:1 says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.”

Habakkuk 2:14 says, “For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.”

The Old Testament prophets predicted the enlightenment of the Gentiles before Christ began His earthly ministry!

Zacharias the father of John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in Luke 1:78-80 and prophesied: “Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.”

Here is the enlightenment of the Gentiles. This is speaking about the great commission and this current intra-Advent period.

 

[Zao is life]

I'm saying that it was bound him. But, we don't have the same understanding of what it means for him to be bound. You see his binding as being like a literal, physical binding that makes him completely incapacitated, right?

I'm talking about being bound in the way Revelation 20:1-3 says he is bound - unable to deceive ANYONE.

But, he was not powerless to stop people from being slaves to the fear of death while having "no hope" in Old Testament times because he had the power of death in those times. I believe he had to be bound spiritually by having the power of death taken away from him so that the gospel would go out into the world,

He had no power over the gospel because the gospel is the power of God and of the blood and resurrection of Christ - done - and the power of the Holy Spirit - he did not have no power "because of" what you say below:

setting "a great multitude, which no man could number" free from having no hope and being slaves to the fear of death and instead having the hope of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

Okay bear in mind that we are still about my opinion/understanding about this vs yours and I'm not telling you I'm right and you are wrong - but IMO that was the end of his power over death and the removal of the indictment by which he could accuse the brethren before God - period. It was not the binding of his ability to deceive the nations "brought about by" (the above).

It's by the power of Christ and His blood and resurrection that we no longer are slaves to the fear of death - not by the defeat of Satan's power over death.

We're just never going to agree about this as long as our understanding of what Satan's binding accomplishes is not the same.

Never mind

 

[WPM]

No. Satan is not able to come between the Holy Spirit and individual humans being called of God to Christ by the Spirit of God, so as to overcome God. He did not need to be bound.

He has always been permitted by God to make an attempt to put a stop to someone coming to faith in Christ, and to steal the one who belongs to Christ away from Christ. But he is not able to overcome God and did not need to be bound and what God did in Christ had this effect on Satan:

It destroyed the indictment (the law which convicted the brethren) which he used to accuse them.
It destroyed his power over death.

Defeated - completely. Powerless to stop it because it was already done - and he is powerless to stop the Holy Spirit from calling individuals to salvation and imparting faith in Christ.

For many centuries Yahweh was ethnic Israel's God. He was God of the Hebrew people. After the First Advent, He became the God of all nations. The Gospel opportunity widened to embrace the darkened Gentiles. This was not the case prior to Calvary, with the special exception of Nineveh. The Gospel expanse has gone from “the nation” (singular) before the cross to “the nations” (plural) after the cross. The nations now contain God's chosen people, not simply the nation!

In the Old Testament, God governed Israel in a theocracy, Satan, on the other hand, ruled the nations. The Gentiles were overwhelmingly ignorant to God’s truth and outside of His covenant favor. They were spiritually deceived. They were bound in paganism and blinded by idolatry. They sat in spiritual darkness. Only one single Gentile village/town/city experienced salvation that we know of. The world in general was deceived, not knowing anything about the grace of God or His merciful way of salvation.

Acts 17:30 tells us: “the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.”

What is “the times of this ignorance”? What does this mean? Who is this talking about? It is the state of the Gentile nations before the earthly ministry of Christ and the introduction of His Messianic reign. Before Christ came Satan was able to prevent the Word of God from being heard throughout the world. Before the cross, the heathen were ignorant to the truth and therefore in desperate need of enlightenment.

The Gentiles are constantly depicted in the Old Testament as being in darkness. They are described as being ignored, blind and without hope. They are depicted as being imprisoned in chains.

Acts 14:16 teaches that God “in times past suffered all nations [Gr. ethnos or Gentiles] to walk in their own ways.”

Did this mean every Gentile in the Old Testament time was unsaved?

No. This tells us that “all nations” were allowed “to walk in their own ways” in the Old Testament era. They were deceived by the lie of the devil and separated from God and from grace.

Ephesians 2:11-12 confirms this, saying, “ye being in time past Gentiles [Gr. ethnos or Gentiles] in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.”

The Gentiles generally were in a hopeless condition during the old covenant, “having no hope, and without God in the world” (Ephesians 2:12). That is a pretty grim state to be in.

Israel on the other hand, whilst often in rebellion, was subject to the truth. Prophet after prophet came preaching the unsearchable riches of God. They therefore had no excuse. The people were enlightened to the law of God and therefore God’s expectation of them. Notwithstanding, that did not mean the chosen nation was immune from satanic deception. Israel (who alone possessed God's special favor, and from whom the Messiah came) still mainly died in unbelief before Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm talking about being bound in the way Revelation 20:1-3 says he is bound - unable to deceive ANYONE.

That is how you understand it, but that is not how I understand it. I don't believe it's talking about his general ability to deceive, but you do. You think his binding renders him to be completely incapacitated, but I don't.

He had no power over the gospel because the gospel is the power of God and of the blood and resurrection of Christ - done - and the power of the Holy Spirit - he did not have no power "because of" what you say below:

He had the power to keep people in slavery to the fear of death before Jesus took it away from him (Hebrews 2:14-15). Without taking that away from Satan, he would have still had that power to keep people in slavery to the fear of death while having no hope of eternal life.

Okay bear in mind that we are still about my opinion/understanding about this vs yours and I'm not telling you I'm right and you are wrong

Of course.

- but IMO that was the end of his power over death and the removal of the indictment by which he could accuse the brethren before God - period. It was not the binding of his ability to deceive the nations "brought about by" (the above).

It's by the power of Christ and His blood and resurrection that we no longer are slaves to the fear of death - not by the defeat of Satan's power over death.

How was Satan's power over death defeated? By the power of Christ and His blood and resurrection. So, in my view, that is how Satan was bound.

 

[Zao is life]

For many centuries Yahweh was ethnic Israel's God. He was God of the Hebrew people. After the First Advent, He became the God of all nations.

It's very difficult to read through all your posts when it contains a very long beginner's Bible study lesson and uses the facts mixed with error to conclude a doctrinal position.

- especially when they start coming one after another like you have recently started doing again.

Take a breath, leave your saved posts and forget the copy and paste functions exist, and type everything you want to say out, copying only the biblical verses you want to refer to.

Take your time with me and actually type out your posts, without copying anything previously saved from your previous posts.

.. and try and leave out any beginner's Bible course material statements, such as the above.

 

[Zao is life]

That is how you understand it, but that is not how I understand it. I don't believe it's talking about his general ability to deceive, but you do. You think his binding renders him to be completely incapacitated, but I don't.


He had the power to keep people in slavery to the fear of death before Jesus took it away from him (Hebrews 2:14-15). Without taking that away from Satan, he would have still had that power to keep people in slavery to the fear of death while having no hope of eternal life.


Of course.


How was Satan's power over death defeated? By the power of Christ and His blood and resurrection. So, in my view, that is how Satan was bound.

But he's still going about deceiving all those whose minds are blinded by the god of this age (Satan).