Hidden in plain sight: Why I believe this about the Revelation

[Spiritual Israelite]

But he's still going about deceiving all those whose minds are blinded by the god of this age (Satan).

Yes, he is. And, you point that out because of your understanding that his binding prevents him from deceiving at all, which is not a view that I share. As I've made clear many times. So, you should know that pointing this out to me isn't going to convince me of anything as it relates to how I understand his binding.

 

[WPM]

It's very difficult to read through all your posts when it contains a very long beginner's Bible study lesson and uses the facts mixed with error to conclude a doctrinal position.

- especially when they start coming one after another like you have recently started doing again.

Take a breath, leave your saved posts and forget the copy and paste functions exist, and type everything you want to say out, copying only the biblical verses you want to refer to.

Take your time with me and actually type out your posts, without copying anything previously saved from your previous posts.

.. and try and leave out any beginner's Bible course material statements, such as the above.

Premils ignore these simple repeated biblical facts. These texts (and the attached arguments) remain unaddressed - as your avoidance confirms. That is why I repeat, and will continue to. I am not going to keep re-typing this out for you (and other Premils) to sidestep and ignore. That has been going on for years. You avoid it because it exposes your Premil theory. The arguments are never addressed.

 

[WPM]

But he's still going about deceiving all those whose minds are blinded by the god of this age (Satan).

Hello! Revelation 20:2 is a generality! Scripture repeatedly does that! The Gentiles were wholesale deceived before the cross, now they are not. The light has shone. They are now without excuse.

Isaiah 42:6-7 says, "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Isaiah 58:6-12 asks, “Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward. Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Isaiah 60:1-3 says, “Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Isaiah 61:1 says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

In Matthew 12 we see the religious Jews rejecting Christ. Matthew 12:14-22 records, “Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Luke 2:27-32: “And he (Simeon) came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Acts 13:46-48: “Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Acts 26:17: "Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Romans 15:8-12 records: "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust."

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

 

[Zao is life]

Yes, he is. And, you point that out because of your understanding that his binding prevents him from deceiving at all, which is not a view that I share. As I've made clear many times. So, you should know that pointing this out to me isn't going to convince me of anything as it relates to how I understand his binding.

I know that just as well as I know that pointing out to me that my understanding is based on taking the statement regarding his binding so that he is unable to deceive the nations both literally and as meaning he will be totally incapacitated, is not going to change my view.

 

[WPM]

I know that just as well as I know that pointing out to me that my understanding is based on taking the statement regarding his binding so that he is unable to deceive the nations both literally and as meaning he will be totally incapacitated, is not going to change my view.

Your fight is with Scripture, that is why you duck around each passage above. It forbids your position. To acknowledge these would force you to question Premil.

 

[PinSeeker]

Revelation 20

The proof that Satan has been bound... (given that you are a Gentile) ...is you. The fact that you have been born again and are thus in Christ is proof postive that Satan is bound from deceiving the nations. Is it possible that Satan could be bound in this way but still have much influence in the world? Yes. Yes it is.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Zao is life]

Your fight is with Scripture, that is why you duck around each passage above. It forbids your position. To acknowledge these would force you to question Premil.

I haven't even read one of your posts beyond the first sentence, so how can I reply to what from my vantage point you have not said?

I can only read one person's posts at a time and you are not actually discussing. You are preaching, and most of the time you preach truth to the converted but then mix it with your own misinterpretations of scripture and wind up with a conclusion based on the mixture.

Honestly, you're posting in-between my conversation with @Spiritual Israelite , and then before I reply and without waiting for a reply, you post again and again - and again - each time with a long sermon which I correctly defined in the paragraph above this one.

If you would be good enough and respectful enough to the person you're talking to, then you would give me a chance to read through your very long post before posting another and another - a few days may be necessary, depending on how long your posts are.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 20

He may be wrong, you know. Has he read all @WPM's long posts?

 

[Zao is life]

Hello! Revelation 20:2 is a generality! Scripture repeatedly does that! The Gentiles were wholesale deceived before the cross, now they are not. The light has shone. They are now without excuse.

Isaiah 42:6-7 says, "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Isaiah 58:6-12 asks, “Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward. Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Isaiah 60:1-3 says, “Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Isaiah 61:1 says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

In Matthew 12 we see the religious Jews rejecting Christ. Matthew 12:14-22 records, “Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Luke 2:27-32: “And he (Simeon) came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Acts 13:46-48: “Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Acts 26:17: "Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Romans 15:8-12 records: "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust."

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

The Gentiles are enlightened by the light in Christ and the light of Christ, not by the binding of Satan.

 

[WPM]

I haven't even read one of your posts beyond the first sentence, so how can I reply to what from my vantage point you have not said?

I can only read one person's posts at a time and you are not actually discussing. You are preaching, and most of the time you preach truth to the converted but then mix it with your own misinterpretations of scripture and wind up with a conclusion based on the mixture.

Honestly, you're posting in-between my conversation with @Spiritual Israelite , and then before I reply and without waiting for a reply, you post again and again - and again - each time with a long sermon which I correctly defined in the paragraph above this one.

If you would be good enough and respectful enough to the person you're talking to, then you would give me a chance to read through your very long post before posting another and another - a few days may be necessary, depending on how long your posts are.

I find this extremely disingenuous, as anyone who knows your mode of engagement is aware that there are many many long posts presented by you on this forum, most longer than mine above. What is more, many of them are cut-and-pasted repeats. So, it's hard to take your sentiment serious. You need to practice what you preach.

Again, the Scriptures above remain unaddressed. They prove Amil. That is why you have no rebuttal.

 

[WPM]

The Gentiles are enlightened by the light in Christ and the light of Christ, not by the binding of Satan.

I agree. The binding of the devil facilitates the free flow of the Gospel, by the curtailment of Satan. That is it!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree. The binding of the devil facilitates the free flow of the Gospel, by the curtailment of Satan. That is it!

Right. Without the power of death being taken away from the devil by Christ by way of His death (Hebrews 2:14-15), he could have just continued to keep a vast majority of people as slaves to the fear of death like he did in Old Testament times and the light of the gospel would not have had any effect. But, with that power taken away from him, he could not prevent the light of the gospel from going out into the world and giving the hope of eternal life to those who formerly had no hope of anything after death, which is why they feared death.

 

[PinSeeker]

He may be wrong, you know.

Any of us could be wrong, yes... But again, if you are a Gentile believer in Christ, then you are living proof of Satan's being bound.

Now, it is worth saying also that if you are a Jewish believer in Christ, then of course that makes you no less a Christian. We are all one in Christ Jesus.

But Satan is bound from deceiving the nations, which means he is absolutely unable to prevent the spread of the Gospel to the nations, which is to say he is absolutely unable to prevent the spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles, who make up all the nations outside of Israel (God's Israel, not the physical nation-state of Israel). He could do that before Jesus came just over two millennia ago ~ because God allowed it ~ but as of that point no longer. Jesus bound Satan (the "strong man") from doing so. So, we are in the midst of God's "thousand years," His millennium. We may be very close to the end of it, even from our point of view.

Has he read all @WPM's long posts?

I'm sure not, no. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Zao is life]

I find this extremely disingenuous, as anyone who knows your mode of engagement is aware that there are many many long posts presented by you on this forum, most longer than mine above. What is more, many of them are cut-and-pasted repeats. So, it's hard to take your sentiment serious. You need to practice what you preach.

Again, the Scriptures above remain unaddressed. They prove Amil. That is why you have no rebuttal.

I don't post one long post after another, after another to the same person (e.g to you) in response to something you said (without giving you a chance to even read my post or waiting to see if you will respond to my post) and then assert that you have no answer. I would regard doing that as just being ridiculous.

Anyway I've chosen not to read your long posts that you posted one after another to me in this thread yet, so indeed for now I have no rebuttal for what I have not read.

 

[Zao is life]

I agree. The binding of the devil facilitates the free flow of the Gospel, by the curtailment of Satan. That is it!

So unless Satan is bound Christ, the Holy Spirit and the gospel is powerless is what you are saying.

 

[Zao is life]

Any of us could be wrong, yes... But again, if you are a Gentile believer in Christ, then you are living proof of Satan's being bound.

Now, it is worth saying also that if you are a Jewish believer in Christ, then of course that makes you no less a Christian. We are all one in Christ Jesus.

But Satan is bound from deceiving the nations, which means he is absolutely unable to prevent the spread of the Gospel to the nations, which is to say he is absolutely unable to prevent the spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles, who make up all the nations outside of Israel (God's Israel, not the physical nation-state of Israel). He could do that before Jesus came just over two millennia ago ~ because God allowed it ~ but as of that point no longer. Jesus bound Satan (the "strong man") from doing so. So, we are in the midst of God's "thousand years," His millennium. We may be very close to the end of it, even from our point of view.


I'm sure not, no. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

So unless Satan is bound Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Word of God in the gospel are all powerless is what you are saying.

 

[Zao is life]

Right. Without the power of death being taken away from the devil by Christ by way of His death (Hebrews 2:14-15), he could have just continued to keep a vast majority of people as slaves to the fear of death

As you said, it's the blood of Christ, the death, and resurrection of Christ that that took the power of death away from the devil - NOT "the devil's binding" that took away his power of death.

Faith in Christ is what delivers from slavery to the fear of death - NOT faith in death or in the binding of Satan.

 

[WPM]

So unless Satan is bound Christ, the Holy Spirit and the gospel is powerless is what you are saying.

The Gospel is always powerful. It is the power of God unto salvation.

But the liberty the great commission has enjoyed for 2000 years amongst the nations will be curtailed at the end when Satan is loosed.

 

[WPM]

I don't post one long post after another, after another to the same person (e.g to you) in response to something you said (without giving you a chance to even read my post or waiting to see if you will respond to my post) and then assert that you have no answer. I would regard doing that as just being ridiculous.

Anyway I've chosen not to read your long posts that you posted one after another to me in this thread yet, so indeed for now I have no rebuttal for what I have not read.

I was responding to different posts. These arguments stand unchallenged over the years, and should be considered.