Holiness or Hell. God's command to His people!

[aspen]

Living holy means to live apart or differently from the world - we are called to live holy lives. Living holy in this manner: love God and love neighbor perfectly. Since none of us are able to achieve loving perfectly on Earth, we are all in constant need of the Holy Spirit's sanctification in order to learn how to do so through all of our trials on Earth in hopes of perfection in Heaven. Seeing the matter dualisticly, by reducing it to Holy vs. Hell is foolish. We are called to love God and others - Hell is a place where people will love selfishly. Hell is really not relevant for people who choose to pursue loving perfectly thought the guidiance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[IanLC]

Living holy means to live apart or differently from the world - we are called to live holy lives. Living holy in this manner: love God and love neighbor perfectly. Since none of us are able to achieve loving perfectly on Earth, we are all in constant need of the Holy Spirit's sanctification in order to learn how to do so through all of our trials on Earth in hopes of perfection in Heaven. Seeing the matter dualisticly, by reducing it to Holy vs. Hell is foolish. We are called to love God and others - Hell is a place where people will love selfishly. Hell is really not relevant for people who choose to pursue loving perfectly thought the guidiance of the Holy Spirit.

I agree to disagree and we view holiness in two different lights.

 

[aspen]

I agree to disagree and we view holiness in two different lights.

what is your definition of Holy?

 

[IanLC]

Holiness is living in obedience to God and His commands. It is living by the precepts of the Word of God,living as Christ Jesus and the Apostles did after they received the Holy Ghost. Where you do not continue to willingly sin out of Love for Jesus and through the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost. You profess and possess Jesus. You love, show mercy, and all the fruit of the Holy Spirit to believers and unbelievers. Your walk, talk, dress, inner man and outward man are made new by Jesus. You live holy as He would have you too. And we mourn and weep over your personal sins and the sins of the world. Your heart is brought into obedience and submission to Jesus as Lord. Your will and outer man is broken and your dependence is solely on Jesus. Holiness is an attribute of God and his believers as much as love, mercy, modesty, charity and others. It's not taking advantage of salvation and using it as a free pass to sin. It's workiing out your soul salvation with fear and trembling and reverence of God.
Absolute holiness: Is in God alone
Relative Holiness: Is God's work in the believer.
Sanctification is
1. Instantaneous: justification
2. Progressive: as you grow in grace and obedience to God (where all/most of us are)
3. Entire: where you live for God in complete obedience and holiness (maybe attained in this life or only when Jesus resurrects us to live with Him)

 

[aspen]

Holiness is living in obedience to God and His commands. It is living by the precepts of the Word of God,living as Christ Jesus and the Apostles did after they received the Holy Ghost. Where you do not continue to willingly sin out of Love for Jesus and through the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost. You profess and possess Jesus. You love, show mercy, and all the fruit of the Holy Spirit to believers and unbelievers. Your walk, talk, dress, inner man and outward man are made new by Jesus. You live holy as He would have you too. And we mourn and weep over your personal sins and the sins of the world. Your heart is brought into obedience and submission to Jesus as Lord. Your will and outer man is broken and your dependence is solely on Jesus. Holiness is an attribute of God and his believers as much as love, mercy, modesty, charity and others. It's not taking advantage of salvation and using it as a free pass to sin. It's workiing out your soul salvation with fear and trembling and reverence of God.
Absolute holiness: Is in God alone
Relative Holiness: Is God's work in the believer.
Sanctification is
1. Instantaneous: justification
2. Progressive: as you grow in grace and obedience to God (where all/most of us are)
3. Entire: where you live for God in complete obedience and holiness (maybe attained in this life or only when Jesus resurrects us to live with Him)

I think you are agreeing with me.

I just called 'living like Jesus' - loving God and others, perfectly. It is how we were created to live in the Garden.

Loving others perfectly, is the sum of the Law - it was called the most important commandment by Jesus. Also anything less than loving perfectly is what God calls sin.

 

[IanLC]

We may agree but our terminology is different and that is alright.


"For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit." (1 Thessalonians 4:8) "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20) "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." (1 Corinthians 6:19)"Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship." (Romans 12:1)

I am very sure that the word of God has outlined what God's has ordained as holy and how He commands His people to live. There is no excuse to continue in sin for the Holy Ghost and the Holy Writ abides in us to sanctify us.

 

[Ruth]

Some very enlightening replies.

The Lord has been showing me many of His children are going to be surprised on judgment day, when The Lord claims " I never knew you"

When we believe in the gospel, we put our faith and trust in God...

.then we receive the Holy Spirit,

then begins the dying to self....we are baptized as Jesus instructs

We are no longer slaves to sin, but slaves to Christ .....what does this mean?

1. With the help of the Holy Spirit, and other mature Christians we grow in submission to Gods commands to live Holy.

2. When we sin, the Holy Spirit will warn us, God will discipline us.

3. We then repent, if we do not, we grieve the Holy Spirit, and our prayers are not heard. If we repent God will always forgive

4. If we continue to willfully sin after many warnings from God, our hearts will become hardened, and your sin against God is worse for you than for those who never excepted the truth of the gospel

We should have a healthy fear of The Lord

2 Peter 2

20And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again,

they are worse off than before.

21It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life.

22They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.”g And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”

 

[IanLC]

Sista Ruth, I agree with you. As the church we need to understand the seriousness of holy living and the consequences for not living holy. Not legalism, not self righteousness, religious piety, fanaticism, exclusion and isolation but freedom, peace, assurance and purity given by God. Living holy can not be reached or walked out by human reasoning or methods it must be done by God in the life of the believer as the believer allows God to work in them! God is a gentlemen and thus does not force Himself on anyone and He gives mankind free will to choose to obey or rebel. And when we who have been redeemed and enlightened who have knowledge of Jesus' power over sin choose to fall into sin and live a life of sin we come into direct disobedience and rebellion as with satan. satan dwelled in the holy presence of God as Lucifer but when He allowed sin the sin of pride to come in he fell from God's favor and had to be cast out and Hell is his destined place and end. The same with those that disobey God that is pride believing that our way is better and thus it manifests in disobedience which leads to rebellion and God likens rebellion unto witchcraft and the Holy Bible says "suffer not the witch to live!"(1 Samuel 15:23; Exodus 22:18). God takes disobedience seriously exp. direct disobedience from them that know His will and refuse to do it!
""That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows." (Luke 12:47)
We must live holy for that is the only lifestyle a child of God is supposed to live they that live in another way are not of the household of Faith and are imposters, deceivers and liars. Yet we can live to God's holy standard through His grace and love by giving us the Holy Spirit and the Holy Writ to instruct, guide, keep, warn, convict and comfort us in our sojourn of holiness in Christ Jesus.

 

[williemac]

Some very enlightening replies.

The Lord has been showing me many of His children are going to be surprised on judgment day, when The Lord claims " I never knew you"

When we believe in the gospel, we put our faith and trust in God...

.then we receive the Holy Spirit,

then begins the dying to self....we are baptized as Jesus instructs

We are no longer slaves to sin, but slaves to Christ .....what does this mean?

1. With the help of the Holy Spirit, and other mature Christians we grow in submission to Gods commands to live Holy.

2. When we sin, the Holy Spirit will warn us, God will discipline us.

3. We then repent, if we do not, we grieve the Holy Spirit, and our prayers are not heard. If we repent God will always forgive

4. If we continue to willfully sin after many warnings from God, our hearts will become hardened, and your sin against God is worse for you than for those who never excepted the truth of the gospel

We should have a healthy fear of The Lord

2 Peter 2

20And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again,

they are worse off than before.

21It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life.

22They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.”g And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”

This is an unfortunate translation. The NKJ, in vs.21 calls it a holy commandment. It is not a command to live a holy life, but rather a holy command. The command is to live a righteous life. This whole thread is mislabelled. A pure moral lifestyle is called a righteous lifestyle. Holiness is something completely different. It is not in the category of morality. Sin is the opposite, or absence of righteousness. If a person is living a sinless lifestyle, then he is considered righteous. Do we have two words that mean exactly the same thing? No. Righteousness and holiness are not the same thing.
God is holy. The angels gather around the throne and sing "holy holy holy. Do we think they are singing about how sinless God is? Or the He is really righteous? Those two things are about the outward actions and behavior of an individual.
On the other hand, 'things' can be considered holy. Places can be considered holy. Food can be considered holy. Offerings can be considered holy. God's mountain was called holy. The law is holy. Faith can be called holy. There is a holy city. There can be a holy kiss. We are called with a holy calling. God's temple is holy. The sabbath was considred a holy day. There are holy garments, a holy crown, holy oil, and on and on.
Our new man was created according to God in (both) true righteousness and holiness (Eph.4:24).

Is anyone getting the point? Holiness is not meant to be defined or thought of as good moral behavior. My study and meditation on it has brought me to the present conclusion that holiness is about goodness of purpose. And as far as our living a holy life, it would therefore be about lining ourselves up to the best of our knowledge and ability, to our God given purpose.

The original transgression of the angel Lucifer was the determination in his heart to sit on the throne as God. Thus he rejected the purpose for which he was created, wanting to create his own purpose and destiny.
If it were possible to create our own purpose and destiny, we would truly be taking on the role of god. Ultimately, the test that each free thinking member of creation has is whether or not he/she will submit to God in the area of purpose for life.

The sad reality is that much of the church has been talked into the idea that the main enemy of mankind and God is sin. FYI, it is not the main enemy. It is a by product, a mere symptom. As long as the 'enemy' can have us running about fighting sin, he can distract us to the point of possibly missing the whole point.

The point of salvation is to get us aligned with the purpose for which we are created. Our purpose is not to go about fighting an enemy that has already beed defeated. Sin is not our enemy. Sin is a distraction. Our real purpose is both universal and individual. A holy man is someone who knows his God given purpose and is on board with it. PERIOD!!!!

Did Jesus fail on the cross? Have we not been crucifed with HIM? If so, how can we be rejected for that which has already been dealt with? What can seperate us from God? Sin? The real enemy is to reject one's purpose. This is precisely the point of the parable of the talents. He who buried his talent would have been fine if he merely put the money in the bank and allowed it to collect interest. Instead he dug a hole and put it in the ground;.. the equivalent to rejecting the purpose for which it was given to him.
To whom it concerns; are you trying to defeat sin and save yourself in the process? Isn't that God's role? hhmmmm?

 

[justaname]

Taken from Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible
Holiness, Holy
The root idea of holiness is that of “separation” or “withdrawal.” [5 highlights] It is a divine quality, part of the intrinsic nature of God, but absent from a fallen world, perhaps best described as “alienness” in a religious or divine sense. The basic theological problem is that this holy God desires to have fellowship with sinful humans living in a fallen world. Since God cannot become less holy in order to fellowship with humans, they must become more holy (“sanctified”); once gained, holiness may be lessened or contaminated by contact with various proscribed substances (“uncleanness”) and by feeling, thinking, or acting in ways that God has forbidden (“sinfulness”).

The greek word "hagios" translated as holy is similar to the word "hagiasmos" which is translated as sanctification.

Also taken from Eerdmans

The NT concept of holiness is founded on that of the OT. God is still seen as being holy and requiring that those who serve him share that quality (1 Pet. 1:15–16). Gentiles as well as Jews could become part of God’s people under the new covenant (Rom. 2:28–29; Gal. 3:28; Col. 3:11). Those who accepted the invitation were called “saints” (Gk. hágios; Acts 9:13; 1 Cor. 1:2; Jude 3; Rev. 5:8). The Mosaic distinction between “clean” and “holy” gave way to concern for proper conduct (1 Pet. 1:15), attitude, and thought (Matt. 5–6; 1 Cor. 13; Gal. 3).
Jesus’ own personal holiness was demonstrated by his conception (Luke 1:35), his public affirmation from the Father (Matt. 3:17), his deeds (Luke 5:20–24), and his resurrection (Rom. 1:3–4). The NT represents Jesus as holy and a source of holiness/cleanness. He can make his followers holy (Heb. 13:12; 1 Pet. 1:2; cf. esp. Matt. 8:1–3), something only Yahweh had done (Ps. 51:7 [MT 3]; Ezek. 20:12). After Jesus’ death, his followers taught that God granted forgiveness of sins (“holiness”) to anyone who would have faith in him (Acts 2:22–39; Rom. 3:21–26; 1 John 1:7).
The NT also expands the role of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit convicts the world (John 16:7–11) and sanctifies those who believe in Jesus (1 Cor. 6:11; 2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Pet. 1:2). In this respect, it is like an everflowing spring of living water, always capable of cleansing others. The Spirit itself can never be made unclean (John 4:13–14; 7:38–39).

After being made holy (faith) we are exhorted to continue in that holiness (sanctification), the bible is very clear here, and so is the author of this thread.

My only contention in this thread is the focus on God in maintaining that holiness as opposed to depending on one's self which I feel we have come to agreement in. I don't think legalism is being promoted here or self righteousness. I think presentation can seem a bit rash, but I don't believe that to be intentional. It can be rather difficult communicating ideas in such a cold format such as this, but we do have these nice little faces to help out. B)

 

[williemac]

The greek word "hagios" translated as holy is similar to the word "hagiasmos" which is translated as sanctification.
After being made holy (faith) we are exhorted to continue in that holiness (sanctification), the bible is very clear here, and so is the author of this thread.

My only contention in this thread is the focus on God in maintaining that holiness as opposed to depending on one's self which I feel we have come to agreement in. I don't think legalism is being promoted here or self righteousness. I think presentation can seem a bit rash, but I don't believe that to be intentional. It can be rather difficult communicating ideas in such a cold format such as this, but we do have these nice little faces to help out. B)

Only one problem with that. Who sanctified God? How do we go from something that is similar to a word to the same as that word?

God is the ultimate HOLY ONE. This is similar to Him being sanctified but not the same. He is singular in goodness of purpose. He has set Himself apart for goodness of purpose.

But on the contention you have, this is precisely why I have become engaged at this point in the conversation. If you think carefully about my last reply, one might see that I have taken the opposite side. I can see that there are some various and even differing opinions as to our role and God's role in our salvation. The contention that I have is in the attempt to put a man in the role of savior of his own life. There are not two saviors. There is One Savior. Jesus. Our role in salvation is to humble ourselves and accept His generosity of the offer of the free gift of life.

This of course would be meaningless in the case of he who has no intention of submitting to any thought of fulfilling a purpose for which he may have been created. That is the catch in the equation.

There are at least several possible motives for coming to the Lord. For some, they merely fear hell. It is just about escaping what they fear. Rather than go through a list, I will say that eternal life is about knowing God in an intimate way (John17:3). Jesus stands at the door and knocks. For some, He will declare "I never knew you".

Part and parcel of having a relationship with God is knowing who He is and who we are. He is the creator. We were created for a purpose. I think that most who come to Him know that. So what is our role? To get on board with the fact that we have a purpose to fulfill. I will say that there can be no doubting that sin is a hinderance and a distraction in this role. But the bigger disruption is in the belief that our main purpose is to quit sinning so that we can either get saved or stay saved. I really don't care if we refrain from calling this legalism or self righteousness. The enemy is way too subtle to pull us all the way into either of these. No, what he uses is something called leaven. Beware of leaven. There is only One Savior. Do the right things and stay away from the wrong things....FOR THE RIGHT REASONS. Do we do these to escape hell? Really? LEAVEN BY ANY OTHER NAME IS STILL ENOUGH TO ROB US OF JOY, PEACE, ASSURANCE, AND POWER.

 

[IanLC]

No one is claiming that God is not holy. I am stating that because God is holy He commands His people to be and live holy. What do these scriptures mean if they are not a call to holy living?

"for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." (1Peter 1:16)
"Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy." (Leviticus 19:2)
"And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it." (Isaiah 35:8)
"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)
"Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness." (Hebrews 12:10)

God does not need to be sanctified because He alone is complete or absolute holiness. Yet God imputes and impresses like a seal does on wax His holiness in the believer and thus the believers walk, talk, heart, mind and LIFE style has to change the believer can not go on living in sin if they have genuinely accepted Jesus! Jesus is in us and he is holy thus we should possess what we profess! If we profess righteousness we need to possess it, if we profess that we are free from sin then we need to possess it, if we profess a HOLY Christ we need to possess a Holy Christ. And to be genuinely possessed by something you display that inside and outwardly because Jesus controls you! He is our Lord and Master thus what He commands we must abide by!

"Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."(Revelation 22:11)

 

[Ruth]

We must persevere in the faith

What is faith: trusting God, obeying God

Trusting God: knowing in your heart and mind God is all He says He is in scripture.

Obeying God: to love God with all your heart and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

I recommend to read the NT verse to verse in prayer with the Holy Spirit, and when you do so your flesh will wake up to the teachings of how important it is to die to self, all your sinful desires set aside, and listening and only obeying the Spirit.

Two great examples

The Church God Is Pleased With...

10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world. 11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown. 12 All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write on them the name of my God, and they will be citizens in the city of my God—the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And I will also write on them my new name.

Jesus warning a church if you do not repent I will erase your names from the Lambs Book Of Life...

“I know all the things you do, and that you have a reputation for being alive—but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead. I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God. 3 Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly. Repent and turn to me again. If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.

4 “Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

From Revelation 3

 

[John Zain]

satan dwelled in the holy presence of God as Lucifer but when He allowed sin the sin of pride to come in
he fell from God's favor and had to be cast out and Hell is his destined place and end.
The same with those that disobey God that is pride believing that our way is better and thus it manifests in disobedience which leads to rebellion
and God likens rebellion unto witchcraft and the Holy Bible says "suffer not the witch to live!"(1 Samuel 15:23; Exodus 22:18).
God takes disobedience seriously exp. direct disobedience from them that know His will and refuse to do it!

I see this as a new revelation ... the similarity between Lucifer and some born-again Christians!
(And even Saul and others in the OT.)

Lucifer was God's anointed arch-angel ... God's #1 created being in the whole universe!
He was even in a position over Michael and Gabriel.

Did this lofty position hold any guarantees that he would stay there?

NO ... obedience is king.

Those who run from being obedient to what they have revelation about ... are thrown out ... disqualified.

 

[justaname]

Let me first speak to who sanctified God question. What I meant by this statement, "The greek word "hagios" translated as holy is similar to the word "hagiasmos" which is translated as sanctification.", is sanctification at it's root is derived from holy. In greek suffixes and prefixes play a major role in defining terms or words. In this case the idea of "being set apart or separation" which is rooted in "hagios" is transferred to sanctification defining it as "being set apart for God's purposes or being made holy". So nobody sanctified God. God is holy at His very nature and needs no sanctification.


What is interesting here is I agree with both sides of the argument. Indeed we are to abide in holiness because this is command of our Holy Lord. Indeed there is only one Savior, and one Name by which we are saved, Jesus the Christ. It is not our works that bring us to salvation it is God that does, we are to simply submit. Yet there is a synergy here that need be recognized that is not easily conveyed and the answer is revealed in our submittal. We are to submit all things (i.e. actions, thoughts, attitudes, will) to God. As we continue in our surrender (sanctification) we put to death the mind set on the flesh and walk in the Spirit, displaying holy living.

This does not lead to sinlessness in this state because it is only upon final glorification that we will be unable to sin. We are in a reborn state with God's favor (glory) bestowed upon us. In this state there is still room for sins of omission, hidden sins, presumptuous sins, sins of motive or intent, and so on... Sin is a wicked thing and is more intrinsic in the human condition than many would care to recognize or admit. This is why in Jesus' model of prayer, the Our Father, asking for forgiveness is right at the beginning of the prayer just after the acknowledgment of God's holiness and sovereignty, and the request for His direction (the daily bread). This is not to say we are trapped in sin because we have been freed by the accepted propitiation of sin given by Jesus and our faith in such. What most do when they look at the evil actions of others and the sin thereof is seek justice. When they realize the evil actions of themselves and the sin thereof they seek mercy.

It is written in everything we do we are to glorify God. (1Corinthians 10:31) There is only one man who was able to do such a thing, that was Yeshua Messiah. We are to love a holy love directed first and perfectly to God (vertically) as well as to others including ourselves perfectly. (horizontally) This is our purpose in the here and now. Any thought, word, motive, or deed that falls short or deviates from this is a sin. If it was impossible to live the Law perfectly, with the exception of the Christ, think of how impossible it is without the grace of God to live up to the new and higher standard set by Jesus. Thanks be to God that He has prepared the way for us through the death, burial, and resurrection of His only begotten Son. Thanks be to God He has given us His holy writ to glean from. Thanks be to God for His indwelling Holy Spirt which guides us. Yes living holy is a byproduct in living out our purpose, but I maintain our focus should not be on living out our purpose because that is only a byproduct of focusing on God. To restate this; by focusing on God you will live out your purpose, by living out your purpose you will be living holy.

This is a chart by R.C. Sproul that illustrates what I mean by unable to sin upon final glorification.

Pre-Fall Man
able to sin
able to not sin

Post-Fall Man
able to sin
unable to not sin

Reborn Man
able to sin
able to not sin

Glorified Man
able to not sin
unable to sin

 

[Axehead]

And If it were narrow at what time just what changed to make it easily accessible? I don't believe that simply confessing with your mouth in a repentance prayer is the final word on being born again. My personal opinion is that many in the church today are not indwelt with the HS. They begin but simply never follow threw, I don't mean to struggle with sin but your actions toward others as the verse in Matthew is preceded by. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


My observation is many base their lives and actions exactly like the world does, that is, when was the last time you stopped when a car was pulled over on the highway? Do you make your decisions based on what is best for you or on others as well? I have watch "Christians" that don't even muster that thought with-in there own family's let alone with someone they don't know. Many years ago I got stranded in the middle of Kansas, I sat on a highway for three days reading my bible and listening to the radio. There was a church about a block away I used the rest room. Nobody even stopped to ask how far I needed a ride, this is an average town and a two lane highway. On the third day the sheriff stopped and said people were concerned and where was I headed. I had a regular hair cut ect, We talked for a while then he went to his car for quite a long time. He returned and told me to get in his car he drove me to the county line and meet the sheriff from the next county that took me to a church that bought me a short bus ticket to my destination.

The point of my story is I was in the bible belt and not one person would even talk to me but instead called and asked the sheriff to find a solution. After I first talked with him he got on the radio and made all the arrangements. I sometime think of that experience when I think of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." People would just drive by and stare at me like I was from a different planet or something. For three days I walked back and forth to that church using the bathroom and never seen anyone there, but the doors were open.

Great post, Rex.

The way to life has never changed and never gotten "easier". What is easy about the Cross? I would like to know.

Hearer and confessors of the word is still a long way off from "Doers of the word", as James says. If we are not "Doers", which means picking up our cross and following Jesus, then we are only deceiving ourselves. And there are a lot of people in the church deceiving themselves, today.

Axehead

 

[IanLC]

Let me first speak to who sanctified God question. What I meant by this statement, "The greek word "hagios" translated as holy is similar to the word "hagiasmos" which is translated as sanctification.", is sanctification at it's root is derived from holy. In greek suffixes and prefixes play a major role in defining terms or words. In this case the idea of "being set apart or separation" which is rooted in "hagios" is transferred to sanctification defining it as "being set apart for God's purposes or being made holy". So nobody sanctified God. God is holy at His very nature and needs no sanctification.


What is interesting here is I agree with both sides of the argument. Indeed we are to abide in holiness because this is command of our Holy Lord. Indeed there is only one Savior, and one Name by which we are saved, Jesus the Christ. It is not our works that bring us to salvation it is God that does, we are to simply submit. Yet there is a synergy here that need be recognized that is not easily conveyed and the answer is revealed in our submittal. We are to submit all things (i.e. actions, thoughts, attitudes, will) to God. As we continue in our surrender (sanctification) we put to death the mind set on the flesh and walk in the Spirit, displaying holy living.

This does not lead to sinlessness in this state because it is only upon final glorification that we will be unable to sin. We are in a reborn state with God's favor (glory) bestowed upon us. In this state there is still room for sins of omission, hidden sins, presumptuous sins, sins of motive or intent, and so on... Sin is a wicked thing and is more intrinsic in the human condition than many would care to recognize or admit. This is why in Jesus' model of prayer, the Our Father, asking for forgiveness is right at the beginning of the prayer just after the acknowledgment of God's holiness and sovereignty, and the request for His direction (the daily bread). This is not to say we are trapped in sin because we have been freed by the accepted propitiation of sin given by Jesus and our faith in such. What most do when they look at the evil actions of others and the sin thereof is seek justice. When they realize the evil actions of themselves and the sin thereof they seek mercy.

This is what I have been trying to day all throughout the thread. There needs to be genuine repentance on individual and corporate levels in the Church. We are becoming to liberal and looking like a religious sister to the world. We act, look, and live like the world the only thing we have is that we are "churchy" or "religious". And God is tired of His people conforming to the world instead of drawing the world to Christ Jesus. As the Church we are the Kingdom agent that is sent to be a light to the world if our light is dim and dark how can we draw the world? Holiness coupled with love, justice and mercy is the key to drawing the world. Holiness, love, justice, mercy in us, for each other in the Faith, and for those in the world.

I see this as a new revelation ... the similarity between Lucifer and some born-again Christians!
(And even Saul and others in the OT.)

Lucifer was God's anointed arch-angel ... God's #1 created being in the whole universe!
He was even in a position over Michael and Gabriel.

Did this lofty position hold any guarantees that he would stay there?

NO ... obedience is king.

Those who run from being obedient to what they have revelation about ... are thrown out ... disqualified.

Obedience is the main thing God requires of us. Obedience to accepting Jesus as the only way of salvation, Obedience in loving all people, Obedience in abstaining from willful sins and all sin, Obedience to the Holy Writ, Obedience to the guidance of the Holy Ghost and obedience to God's command for Holiness. And the only reason God gives for His commands is no reason at all but "I Am the Lord Your God!".

 

[justaname]

2 Thessalonians 1:11-12
11 To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power,
12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


The work count can also be translated make. I post this because I read it as a part of my daily devotional by John Piper and I though it relevant to the topic.

If you notice in the prayer given by Paul, God is the one fulfilling the desire for goodness by His power; it is our work of faith. (submission) This is so Jesus gets the glory and we are glorified in Him which also glorifies Jesus because we are His, all according to the grace of God. This again shows that our holy living can only be accomplished by the grace of God through our faith. Believe what the bible says and live holy. Live intentionally yes, but not under your own power. Pray without ceasing, believe without wavering, doing your work of faith and God will make you worthy of your calling. Glory be to God in the highest!

 

[IanLC]

If you notice in the prayer given by Paul, God is the one fulfilling the desire for goodness by His power; it is our work of faith. (submission) This is so Jesus gets the glory and we are glorified in Him which also glorifies Jesus because we are His, all according to the grace of God. This again shows that our holy living can only be accomplished by the grace of God through our faith. Believe what the bible says and live holy. Live intentionally yes, but not under your own power. Pray without ceasing, believe without wavering, doing your work of faith and God will make you worthy of your calling. Glory be to God in the highest!

Wonderful! Simple yet it yells so much truth!

 

[John Zain]

How does this fit into our discussion?

1 Cor 3:
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire,
and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.