Homelessness, why is it a crime

[Lambano]

Thank you, many posts reassure me. The documentary gave the impression that it was purely being homeless that was a crime.
We have a mixture of issues with homelessness, and yes, some of them can be linked to criminal activity. Many of the local churches where I love support the homeless, there are many charities that will endeavour to provide for them in some way.
Rita

Technically, "homelessness" is not the crime. Instead, they will arrest people for trespassing, loitering, public urination, public intoxication, panhandling, disturbing the peace,... Anything to discourage them from hanging around and bothering people. That's bad for business.

In my home state, there's a city where it is a crime to sit down in public in order to make it impossible for the homeless to rest/sleep anywhere.

What the... I've never heard that one before.

I've seen studies that show up to 80% of the chronic homeless in the US have some combination of mental illness and substance abuse problems, which inevitably lead to conflicts with residents as well as real crime such as theft, vandalism, assault, and narcotics possession.

Our city has a Rescue Mission that renovated an old hotel, which they use as a homeless shelter. They also provide Christian counseling services. My church provides financial support and occasionally provides volunteer teams for various service projects. The Rescue Mission works for those who don't have serious mental illness or drug problems, but I don't know what to do for the hard-cases.

 

[DuckieLady]

Technically, "homelessness" is not the crime. Instead, they will arrest people for trespassing, loitering, public urination, public intoxication, panhandling, disturbing the peace,... Anything to discourage them from hanging around and bothering people. That's bad for business.



What the... I've never heard that one before.

I've seen studies that show up to 80% of the chronic homeless in the US have some combination of mental illness and substance abuse problems, which inevitably lead to conflicts with residents as well as real crime such as theft, vandalism, assault, and narcotics possession.

Our city has Rescue Mission that renovated an old hotel, which they use as a homeless shelter. They also provide Christian counseling services. My church provides financial support and occasionally provides volunteer teams for various service projects. The Rescue Mission works for those who don't have serious mental illness or drug problems, but I don't know what to do for the hard-cases.

It's called the sit, lie ordinance

Sit-lie ordinance - Wikipedia

My church took care of the ones on drugs, too, but I never heard any stories about it. I would assume they counseled them.

I've seen a lot of people who depended on the church be really happy about their sobriety though. We had a lot of revivals and the most I ever saw people do was walk away from the revival tents to go take a smoke break and chat with others. They were always overjoyed with the Holy Spirit and just super excited and praising God.

 

[Enoch111]

Is it the same in Canada , Australia , New Zealand ?

Homelessness is not a crime in Canada but a blot upon the nation (or any Western nation for that matter). There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be living on the streets in a first world country. It becomes a "crime" because it is a nuisance and also a hazard to law-abiding citizens. There have been numerous cases of homeless people attacking innocent citizens.

So there are two groups who are responsible for this state of affairs: (1) the governments at all levels (municipal, provincial or state, and federal) who have done little or nothing to deal seriously with this issue and (2) people who choose to live on the streets and panhandle instead of finding gainful employment. That is totally unacceptable.

There is a third group, for which all governments should take responsibility. They include (a) the disabled, (b) the mentally handicapped, (c) the drug abusers, and (d) those who have suffered huge financial losses for whatever reason, and need proper assistance temporarily. One of the top priorities of all governments should have been to provide genuinely affordable housing to those who genuinely needed it. But it is governments who have squandered tax dollars, printed money, created inflation and hardship, and interfered with economies so that food, clothing, and shelter have become unaffordable for many. And then failed to provide affordable housing.

As to migrant invaders (illegal immigrants), they have declared war on the West, and flooded Western countries because immigration laws have not been strictly enforced, and doors have been recklessly thrown wide open for decades. No doubt there are some genuine refugees, but that is not true for the majority (as indicated by the UN). Legal immigrants and citizens have been disadvantaged by this. And had Western nations ensured that the trillions of dollars which went towards foreign aid were actually used for the benefit of the poorest in foreign lands, they would not be flooding the West but remaining as productive citizens.

 

[dev553344]

Technically, "homelessness" is not the crime. Instead, they will arrest people for trespassing, loitering, public urination, public intoxication, panhandling, disturbing the peace,... Anything to discourage them from hanging around and bothering people. That's bad for business.



What the... I've never heard that one before.

I've seen studies that show up to 80% of the chronic homeless in the US have some combination of mental illness and substance abuse problems, which inevitably lead to conflicts with residents as well as real crime such as theft, vandalism, assault, and narcotics possession.

Our city has a Rescue Mission that renovated an old hotel, which they use as a homeless shelter. They also provide Christian counseling services. My church provides financial support and occasionally provides volunteer teams for various service projects. The Rescue Mission works for those who don't have serious mental illness or drug problems, but I don't know what to do for the hard-cases.

Yes.

 

[Enoch111]

The sub-text of this is the complex relationship between the United States and Latin America and its rhetorical part in election discourse.

You seem to be forgetting that Latin America has reaped billions of dollars from the USA through the drug cartels. Had that money been properly channeled and used for the public good, no one from Latin America would be flooding the USA.

But the fault lies with the federal government of the US as well as the state governments of the border states. Mexico has been at war with America ever since the USA was established. Yet not a single government over a period more than 200 years built a proper border wall to prevent the massive flow of drugs and illegals.

The so-called "War on Drugs" was a total waste of money and manpower. Why would anyone send DEA agents into Latin America when the problem could have been resolved at the border itself? All they needed was a "Great Wall of America" patrolled 24/7 by the army and drones, and built so that no underground tunnels could undermine national security (which includes drug abuse, terrorists, and illegals). Because of Biden's deliberate handing over of the border to the cartels, Fentanyl deaths have skyrocketed over the last two years. But the governors of the border states are just as responsible. Had they all gotten behind Trump 100% and told him to build a solid concrete wall with no possibility of any breaches, you would not be seeing the chaos, human trafficking, child abuse, and crimes which have gone through the roof over the last two years.

 

[Rita]

It's not really weird when you consider the fact that attempts to commit suicide technically makes a person guilty of attempting murder.

Yes, but it’s just crazy that they were then killed by someone else !
Suicide is much more complex than just murdering yourself, in my opinion. I am glad the laws changed and that people now get help if they survive or suffer with deep depression with the aim of preventing suicide

 

[Rita]

around here, you see homeless people everyday, standing with a cardboard sign at the corners near stoplights. Most of them are legit homeless, but some…. Well after they get their days worth of begging in, they go back to their car and drive to their houses.

Yes we have the same problem, although many are poor and work for others who make money from them. So the people they work for are rich, and vulnerable people are used on the streets to beg. There are some that you get to recognise and many don’t beg.

 

[Lambano]

And there was a church group where for a few hundred you could live by their rules and rent a room. Not my thing. Seemed really, really strict.

I've talked to a couple of the dudes who'd hang around the church parking lot, hassling the pastor (not cool!) I'd offer to drive them over to the Rescue Mission where they could get shelter, but they both said they don't like all the rules you have to live by if you want to stay there. One thought it would be better if we put him up in a hotel for a few days. When we told him we couldn't do that, he got belligerent.

My old church helped out the homeless. I actually got married (yeah, old life) in a church used to serve the homeless.

They fed people after every service and they could get coffee during. Then down the street they had a soup kitchen and across from that they had a free clothing store. People could donate what they could to pay for it, but they could get what they needed....My church took care of the ones on drugs, too, but I never heard any stories about it. I would assume they counseled them.

I've seen a lot of people who depended on the church be really happy about their sobriety though. We had a lot of revivals and the most I ever saw people do was walk away from the revival tents to go take a smoke break and chat with others. They were always overjoyed with the Holy Spirit and just super excited and praising God.

Sounds like somebody was doing something right.

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."

 

[Rita]

Homelessness is not a crime in Canada but a blot upon the nation (or any Western nation for that matter). There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be living on the streets in a first world country. It becomes a "crime" because it is a nuisance and also a hazard to law-abiding citizens. There have been numerous cases of homeless people attacking innocent citizens.

So there are two groups who are responsible for this state of affairs: (1) the governments at all levels (municipal, provincial or state, and federal) who have done little or nothing to deal seriously with this issue and (2) people who choose to live on the streets and panhandle instead of finding gainful employment. That is totally unacceptable.

.

We have a high proportion of alcoholics on the streets, it’s never clear whether they were before they became homeless or whether the homelessness created the dependency. It must be a hard life loving on the streets.
One thing I have noticed over the years is there is a higher percentage of men than women on the streets. The local authorities do not always help men that land on hard times, they may may lose their jobs, then can’t pay the rent, and no one helps them- but women seem to get more help. Immigrants sometimes get more help than people that are born here. My son had to sofa surf many years ago because his relationship broke up - his partner and my grand daughter kept the flat. He had his daughter every weekend, but they still didn’t offer him any help , so she was sofa hoping with him as well. Thankfully he had family that could help, but if he didn’t he could have ended up homeless.
The young people who struggle at home often head for the cities for a better life , but it often does workout well and they become victims of pimps and drug dealers. They are often too young to realise what they are heading into ………
I don’t know about other countries but rents are so high in the U.K. , greed well and truly took over with landlords. The average worker cannot afford to live , and social affordable housing is hard to find. So I agree about that needing to change. …….I am in cheaper housing, so is my dad, so my rent is about 420:00 a month ( I can afford it with my wage ) however one of my sons has to pay 1,200 a month rent, that would be more than I earn ! ………with fuel and food prices going up I can see more people losing their accommodation , so the problems and issues increase.

 

[farouk]

We have a high proportion of alcoholics on the streets, it’s never clear whether they were before they became homeless or whether the homelessness created the dependency. It must be a hard life loving on the streets.
One thing I have noticed over the years is there is a higher percentage of men than women on the streets. The local authorities do not always help men that land on hard times, they may may lose their jobs, then can’t pay the rent, and no one helps them- but women seem to get more help. Immigrants sometimes get more help than people that are born here. My son had to sofa surf many years ago because his relationship broke up - his partner and my grand daughter kept the flat. He had his daughter every weekend, but they still didn’t offer him any help , so she was sofa hoping with him as well. Thankfully he had family that could help, but if he didn’t he could have ended up homeless.
The young people who struggle at home often head for the cities for a better life , but it often does workout well and they become victims of pimps and drug dealers. They are often too young to realise what they are heading into ………
I don’t know about other countries but rents are so high in the U.K. , greed well and truly took over with landlords. The average worker cannot afford to live , and social affordable housing is hard to find. So I agree about that needing to change. …….I am in cheaper housing, so is my dad, so my rent is about 420:00 a month ( I can afford it with my wage ) however one of my sons has to pay 1,200 a month rent, that would be more than I earn ! ………with fuel and food prices going up I can see more people losing their accommodation , so the problems and issues increase.

@Rita One of the reasons why Harold Wilson's Labour won in 1964 was because of the exposure of Rachmanism: slum landlords who charge exorbitant rents with no real controls, which became part of public awareness in the wake of the Profumo affair, and publicity gained because of one of his lady friends.

It was the Conservatives who abolished the rent controls introduced by Labour, on the grounds that no rent controls supposedly helped a market economy for everyone.

 

[Rita]

@Rita One of the reasons why Harold Wilson's Labour won in 1964 was because of the exposure of Rachmanism: slum landlords who charge exorbitant rents with no real controls, which became part of public awareness in the wake of the Profumo affair, and publicity gained because of one of his lady friends.

It was the Conservatives who abolished the rent controls introduced by Labour, on the grounds that no rent controls supposedly helped a market economy for everyone.

Thanks for the info Farouk, I never knew that …..why am I not surprised that the conservatives changed the controls. Mind you we have had labour governments and they haven’t changed it back. Labour use to be well and truly for the working class, that’s not the case anymore !
Rita

 

[farouk]

Thanks for the info Farouk, I never knew that …..why am I not surprised that the conservatives changed the controls. Mind you we have had labour governments and they haven’t changed it back. Labour use to be well and truly for the working class, that’s not the case anymore !
Rita

@Rita From over here, the Blair-Mandelson party seemed to be more about corporations and the EU.

As regards the way the authorities can be perceived to behave in North America, especially in the US, at election time some candidates will be pleased to take a strong, anti-immigrant stance, while after the election some will fall back on the interests of business - which wants cheap labour, which means that immigration is less of a no-no.

But perceptions of socio-economic status can play a part in how immigrants are perceived and managed, including in relation to things like tattoos, etc.; you may have seen my post earlier in the tattoo thread.

 

[farouk]

@Rita FYI, documentary about Rachman:

 

[quietthinker]

Homelessness, why is it a grime
not enough plumbing!

 

[TLHKAJ]

Hi everyone,
I have just watched a tv documentary on Slab city in California, and indirectly I discovered that in the US it is considered illegal to be homeless and you are chucked in jail if you found to be homeless……..why ?
Homelessness is not a crime, it’s the end result of so many things.
What is the crime based on !?
Who decided it was a crime !?
So when and if you see a homeless person, a person often in need, do you look upon them as a criminal !?
Must admit I don’t get it………….
Help me to understand ..
Is it the same in Canada , Australia , New Zealand ?
Rita

I don't think it's considered a crime in every state. And it shouldn't be a crime at all. I know some people who are homeless. They're not criminals. I've helped some ... but in some states (at least one = Florida) it's a crime to feed the homeless. THAT is the crime!!!!! (preventing people from helping a homeless person)

 

[Behold]

Hi everyone,
I have just watched a tv documentary on Slab city in California, and indirectly I discovered that in the US it is considered illegal to be homeless and you are chucked in jail if you found to be homeless……..why ?

They make it illegal to be homeless, so that the local county government has a "right" to deal with them, = legally.

But i'll tell you what is so much worse, that is happening recently.

Another 40 billion sent to the Ukraine, and not to rebuild it.
That is 90 billion, in less then a month, and who is getting the money?

90 billion to help Nazi's kill more Russians in Donbas ?????
And people in the USA are living in boxes in the winter, on streets.
US Soldiers, from previous wars, are living under interstate highways, in a tent.
Yet, Biden can send 90 billion to Nazi Liars who have convinced the world that ............ : what ever he says next, they believe.

 

[TLHKAJ]

They make it illegal to be homeless, so that the local county government has a "right" to deal with them, = legally.

But i'll tell you what is so much worse, that is happening recently.

Another 40 billion sent to the Ukraine, and not to rebuild it.
That is 90 billion, in less then a month, and who is getting the money?

90 billion to help Nazi's kill more Russians in Donbas ?????
And people in the USA are living in boxes in the winter, on streets.
US Soldiers, from previous wars, are living under interstate highways, in a tent.
Yet, Biden can send 90 billion to Nazi Liars who have convinced the world that ............ : what ever he says next, they believe.

Lord, help! This is heartbreaking!!

 

[Rita]

They make it illegal to be homeless, so that the local county government has a "right" to deal with them, = legally.

But i'll tell you what is so much worse, that is happening recently.

Another 40 billion sent to the Ukraine, and not to rebuild it.
That is 90 billion, in less then a month, and who is getting the money?

90 billion to help Nazi's kill more Russians in Donbas ?????
And people in the USA are living in boxes in the winter, on streets.
US Soldiers, from previous wars, are living under interstate highways, in a tent.
Yet, Biden can send 90 billion to Nazi Liars who have convinced the world that ............ : what ever he says next, they believe.

I understand what you are saying but there have been homeless US soldiers and people living in boxes for many many years, long before Biden came into power and before and after Trump was in power, so neither side of the political parties has been bothered to resolve the problem.
It’s the same here ……..

 

[Behold]

I understand what you are saying but there have been homeless US soldiers and people living in boxes for many many years, long before Biden came into power and before and after Trump was in power, so neither side of the political parties has been bothered to resolve the problem.
It’s the same here ……..

Biden is worried about Russia "crossing the border"... going into the Ukraine, but he's not bothered that Mexicans are crossing the USA border unless his ratings drop and then he becomes "concerned" for about 45 seconds.

Something isn't right....
And the answer is....

The Ukraine issue is not just Putin's party.
He had help.

Also, why would Putin allow the USA to use the Ukraine as its air base?
He's not going to do that, and he just proved it the last 2.7 months.
He is also not going to allow the USA and Nato, + the Ukraine to "take back" the Crimea.
Nor should he .

 

[Rita]

Biden is worried about Russia "crossing the border"... going into the Ukraine, but he's not bothered that Mexicans are crossing the USA border unless his ratings drop and then he becomes "concerned" for about 45 seconds.

Something isn't right....
And the answer is....

The Ukraine issue is not just Putin's party.
He had help.

Also, why would Putin allow the USA to use the Ukraine as its air base?
He's not going to do that, and he just proved it the last 2.7 months.
He is also not going to allow the USA and Nato, + the Ukraine to "take back" the Crimea.
Nor should he .

Sorry but this is off topic , so perhaps you would like to start your own thread about the above, many thanks x