Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

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Wrangler

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I based my belief on the direct, explicit statements of scripture

Arthur, welcome to CyB. You certain seem knowledgeable. But my simple question is do you agree that homosexuality is a sin?

The act of homosexuality is described in the verses below. Plainly, scripture says a man should not lay down with another man in the same way a man would lay down with a woman. It is defilement and an abomination.

Leviticus 18:22-30

[22]Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

@Arthur81, isnt' Lev 18:22-30 an explicit statement of Scripture condemning homosexuality?

If you have a problem with what the scriptures state, go to the Almighty about it. Don't try to blame it on my logic!

Hmmm. I'm a little disappointed with this rhetoric since @TLHKAJ did share explicit statement of Scripture condemning homosexuality in Lev 18:22-30. The point is not to be padentic in being exacting about what verse most authoritatively identifies homosexuality as a sin but to start with the basics, that it is a sin according to the Bible.
 

BarneyFife

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What are the similarities between blue eyes and sexuality?

It's in the Bible, right before the part that promotes the sin of perversion known as homosexuality to the rank of "minority," indicatinging that it is somehow holier than sins of perversion involving children and animals.

.
 

ScottA

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It is easy to cast stones here, although it should not be so. We are all (with the one exception being Christ) found guilty of sin.

Thus, standing elbow to elbow with the likes of all who are in the eyes of God equally guilty of sin as if we too were homosexual...one ought not to be pointing fingers. And just as some of you are my friends, so are some of them.

Still, the question was asked and the answer is written. But I think we miss the point--which is more importantly about most things that we stand elbow to elbow with in this world, including all of nature. In another thread they referred to a percentage of animals also being homosexual. Well--go figure--the whole world is fallen and groans for it!

But I like nature--perhaps more than I like people. Even so none of us ought to be throwing stones if we know the salvation of Christ, but rather gathering them together, while condoning no sin.
 
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Taken

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No one chooses who they are attracted to and love, is just who they are.
People are naturally attracted to beautiful things.
People are naturally curious.
People naturally experiment with their curiosities.
People choose their life “styles”.

Historically homosexual life styles were by the best options kept discrete and hidden.
Modernly they are openly revealed and they routinely hold public celebrations and put on public display their pride of choices.

And to add to that, is TV, Cartoons, Children’s Programs, Underhanded sneaky Teaching, Reading Materials and Counseling in Public schools to Encourage young impressionable minds to abandon that which is natural and consider and participate in that which goes against nature.

Public schools are extensions of American Governments…. Is no one paying attention that downsizing the population is a MAJOR effort of the UN and it’s Nations members by all means they dream up? And not to forget, having the ability to Control those whom they ALLOW to live.
While abortions have been debated for decades….Did ya ever stop to think promoting homosexuality to youngsters Is one of their measures for downsizing the population while conditioning youngsters to mindlessly do as they say?
 

Wrangler

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It is easy to cast stones here, although it should not be so. We are all (with the one exception being Christ) found guilty of sin.
I reject the idea that all sin is equal for this is the error of over-generalization. Sure, all sin is sin but there is ample evidence in Scripture of ranking severity. Consider Ex 22. And in the NT, we are told we will be paid for our work, implying another graduated (non-equal) schedule.

Exodus 22

Contemporary English Version

Property Laws

The Lord said:

22 If you steal an ox and slaughter or sell it, you must replace it with five oxen; if you steal a sheep and slaughter it or sell it, you must replace it with four sheep. 2-4 But if you cannot afford to replace the animals, you must be sold as a slave to pay for what you have stolen. If you steal an ox, donkey, or sheep, and are caught with it still alive, you must pay the owner double.

5 If you allow any of your animals to stray from your property and graze[a] in someone else's field or vineyard, you must repay the damage from the best part of your own harvest of grapes and grain.
6 If you carelessly let a fire spread from your property to someone else's, you must pay the owner for any crops or fields destroyed by the fire.

7 Suppose a neighbor asks you to keep some silver or other valuables, and they are stolen from your house. If the thief is caught, the thief must repay double. 8 But if the thief isn't caught, some judges[b] will decide if you are the guilty one.
9 Suppose two people claim to own the same ox or donkey or sheep or piece of clothing. Then the judges[c] must decide the case, and the guilty person will pay the owner double.
 

ScottA

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I reject the idea that all sin is equal for this is the error of over-generalization. Sure, all sin is sin but there is ample evidence in Scripture of ranking severity. Consider Ex 22. And in the NT, we are told we will be paid for our work, implying another graduated (non-equal) schedule.

Exodus 22

Contemporary English Version

Property Laws

The Lord said:

22 If you steal an ox and slaughter or sell it, you must replace it with five oxen; if you steal a sheep and slaughter it or sell it, you must replace it with four sheep. 2-4 But if you cannot afford to replace the animals, you must be sold as a slave to pay for what you have stolen. If you steal an ox, donkey, or sheep, and are caught with it still alive, you must pay the owner double.

5 If you allow any of your animals to stray from your property and graze[a] in someone else's field or vineyard, you must repay the damage from the best part of your own harvest of grapes and grain.
6 If you carelessly let a fire spread from your property to someone else's, you must pay the owner for any crops or fields destroyed by the fire.

7 Suppose a neighbor asks you to keep some silver or other valuables, and they are stolen from your house. If the thief is caught, the thief must repay double. 8 But if the thief isn't caught, some judges[b] will decide if you are the guilty one.
9 Suppose two people claim to own the same ox or donkey or sheep or piece of clothing. Then the judges[c] must decide the case, and the guilty person will pay the owner double.

:) I don't disagree, and yet that is not the point, but rather that they all hold the same condemnation, the wages of which is death--even the whole world is to be destroyed, the elements of which have committed no sin.
 
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Taken

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@Arthur81

"Effeminate" is a good translation in the context of 1 Corinthians 6. It refers to the passive male partner in homosexual intercourse.
TY. There is no doubt men sexually engaging with other men and women sexually engaging with other women IS NOT an acceptable taught behavior or condoned behavior ACCORDING to Gods Word.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

TinMan

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Here we differ in seeing, understanding.
There is Scriptural protocal of STRENGTH…which by default reveals what is deemed WEAKER;
Strength protocal;
God, angels, man, woman, child…

EFFEMINATE is not only about appearance, but also behaviors, projections and weakness.
No doubt some effeminate persons are discrete while others continually all out perform for onlookers.
and what did it mean 2000 years ago
 

TinMan

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It's in the Bible, right before the part that promotes the sin of perversion known as homosexuality to the rank of "minority," indicatinging that it is somehow holier than sins of perversion involving children and animals.

.
is that before or after the verse that glorifies hate of a minority?
 

TinMan

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People are naturally attracted to beautiful things.
People are naturally curious.
People naturally experiment with their curiosities.
People choose their life “styles”.
Love is not a lifestyle
Historically homosexual life styles were by the best options kept discrete and hidden.
Mostly because their good neighbors would butcher them and their families if they were outed.
Modernly they are openly revealed and they routinely hold public celebrations and put on public display their pride of choices.
The choice to be honest and to refuse to live in fear and the choice to stand up to those who choose to hate them.
And to add to that, is TV, Cartoons, Children’s Programs, Underhanded sneaky Teaching, Reading Materials and Counseling in Public schools to Encourage young impressionable minds to abandon that which is natural and consider and participate in that which goes against nature.
You seem to be talking about racial equality
Public schools are extensions of American Governments…. Is no one paying attention that downsizing the population is a MAJOR effort of the UN and it’s Nations members by all means they dream up? And not to forget, having the ability to Control those whom they ALLOW to live.
While abortions have been debated for decades….Did ya ever stop to think promoting homosexuality to youngsters Is one of their measures for downsizing the population while conditioning youngsters to mindlessly do as they say?
No I have never thought anything that ridiculous in my life.

No one chooses their orientation. No one looks at a brochure and says "hmmm bisexuality, I guess i'll try that out."
 

ScottA

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and what did it mean 2000 years ago

If I may...

It meant what it has always meant since the beginning when God created them male and female. Which is the "image" created in mankind of man being taken out of God, not actually whole but alone and separated from God. Which image in addition to earlier references to the Bride and Groom, it did not come completely clear until Paul revealed the mystery of marriage as "Christ (male) and the church" as his bride (female).

Quite the "image" indeed.

Which then creates its own image when combined as women and women or man and man. The former being mankind alone as with himself and without God, which is to say, without life...and the latter being God with God, again leaving mankind out completely.

Thus is the full "image" and meaning of what it has become: The latest gender issues are the image of "I told you so" (from the beginning).

@Arthur81
 
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Jack

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Regarding the interpretation of Rom. 1:26-27: verse 26 does not say women had sex with other women. If they were having anal and oral sex with men, that was a change of behavior from the created design. To say this is lesbianism is to read into the verse what it does not state.

On v27, the Greek for "burned" is G1572 ἐκκαίω ekkaio and this is the only occurrence of the word in the entire NT. It is an extreme burning out, not typical sex drive as in 1 Cor 7:9 where another Greek word is used. Also, the Greek for the word "lust" here is G3715 ὄρεξις orexis and again, this is the only place it is found in the entire NT. The males spoken of here are "leaving the natural use of the woman", and means that they were heterosexuals who were perverts. I know two records of history from the time of Paul, and he was not writing in a vacuum, he saw what was around him -

About Nero, and it is very revealing (I'll not print this one out or the post will be too large.)

Here is another, and I'll print it out so you don't miss it. This is a Greek philosopher describing just exactly what Paul described and he lived in Paul's day -

From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse

"In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments."

It is a long passage so you need to use "Find on Page" for what I have quoted.

Of course, there is John Chrysostom who in his homily on this knew it did not fit the picture of a loving sexual relationship between two male friends.

"But behold how here too, as in the case of the doctrines, he deprives them of excuse, by saying of the women, that "they changed the natural use." For no one, he means, can say that it was by being hindered of legitimate intercourse that they came to this pass, or that it was from having no means to fulfil their desire that they were driven into this monstrous insaneness. For the changing implies possession. Which also when discoursing upon the doctrines he said, "They changed the truth of God for a lie." And with regard to the men again, he shows the same thing by saying, "Leaving the natural use of the woman."

Then there is the JFB Commentary of 1872, long before the word homosexual was coined, on this passage -

"Observe how, in the retributive judgment of God, vice is here seen consuming and exhausting itself. When the passions, scourged by violent and continued indulgence in natural vices, became impotent to yield the craved enjoyment, resort was had to artificial stimulants by the practice of unnatural and monstrous vices."

Of course, the passage in Romans 1 must be read and compared with Paul's other two passages 1 Cor.6:9; 1 Tim. 1:10 where he coined the word arsenokoites and when you study that word you get a good picture of what Paul is condemning, and it is NOT two male friends having sexual intimacy.

Reading from statements out of the church that go into some detail on various verses, you do not find the hatred that you find directed at a male simply because his nature is to love only another male and they form a relationship.

I'll let the reader check to see how the translators of the KJV, RV, ASV & YLT viewed 1 Cor. 6:9 & 1 Tim. 1:10 by reading the 1828 Webster's definitions of "abuser", "ravisher" and "defile". You find that men of God out of the past viewed those passages as describing those who: debauch; violate; ravish; violence; force... and the word "sodomite" is shown to be the meaning. When you take all of Paul's comments on this, it is not a condemnation of two males in an intimate relationship. That is homophobia coming from the mind of ....
IOW, you're saying the Bible doesn't mean what it clearly says.