Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

[Arthur81]

Thank you for your effort and post.

Word “meanings” change as “societies” change and “accept” what was the meaning to mean the “complete” opposite.

Nearly one hundred years ago EFFEMINATE meant:

EFFEM'INATE, adjective [Latin effoeminatus, from effoeminor, to grow or make womanish, from foemina, a woman. See Woman.]
1. Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous.
The king, by his voluptuous life and mean marriage, became effeminate and less sensible of honor.
2. Womanish; weak; resembling the practice or qualities of the sex; as an effeminatepeace; an effeminate life.
3. Womanlike, tender, in a sense not reproachful.
EFFEM'INATE, verb transitive To make womanish; to unman; to weaken; as to effeminate children.
EFFEM'INATE, verb intransitive To grow womanish or weak; to melt into weakness.
In a slothful peace courage will effeminate
(Source: the renown Noah Webster’s 1828 English Dictionary)

You used the “word GAY” to denote a homosexual.


GAY, adjective

1. Merry; airy; jovial; sportive; frolicksome. It denotes more life and animation than cheerful.

Belinda smiled, and all the world was gay

2. Fine; showy; as a gay dress.

3. Inflamed or merry with liquor; intoxicated; a vulgar use of the word in America.

GAY, noun An ornament. [Not used.]
( Source, Again Webster’s 1828 Dictionary.)

A long time favorite Christmas song….
Deck the Halls, has been sung in American Churches for over 100 years, INCLUDING the portion of the lyrics …. Let us don our GAY apparel. That has no implication or encouragement for men to dress up in Woman’s garments, but rather all donning Festive clothing.

GAY has lost its jubilant, festive meaning to expressly mean involved in homosexual activities, by participation, support thereof or as you did to accept it’s meaning changed by society.

AND BTW, I neither said nor implied Damning one to hell is something I assumed authority to effect.

Gods Word is the TRUTH. Every man has FREEWILL to believe and accept His TRUTH…OR NOT.
Consequences are NOT the SAME for those who FREELY CHOOSE Gods Word and Way and those who FREELY CHOOSE to NOT accept Gods Word and Way.
Christ Jesus IS the Judge.
Judging IS according to the Evidence in Gods books and records.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, the meaning of words do change over time, and that is why you use the 1828 Webster's English Dictionary which is closer to the language of the KJV. Let's try it out on a couple of verses and see how we come out with it.

"EFFEM'INATE, a. [L. effoeminatus, from effoeminor, to grow or make womanish, from foemina, a woman. See Woman.]
1. Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous.
The king, by his voluptuous life and mean marriage, became effeminate, and less sensible of honor.
2. Womanish; weak; resembling the practice or qualities of the sex; as an effeminate peace; an effeminate life.
3. Womanlike, tender, in a sense not reproachful.
EFFEM'INATE, v.t. To make womanish; to unman; to weaken; as to effeminate children.
EFFEM'INATE, v.i. To grow womanish or weak; to melt into weakness.
In a slothful peace courage will effeminate."

I do not see a meaning of passive homosexual there or any sexual meaning of any type homo-, bi- or hetero-

Let's see how much "effeminate" has changed since 1828 by looking at today's Merriam-Webster -

"effeminate adjective
1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
2 : marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement
effeminate art
an effeminate civilization

effeminate noun
: an effeminate person"

An effeminate person has not become a passive homosexual, have they? Since we are talking definitions, let's try two more. The word "abuser" is key in the KJV rendering of arsenokoites in 1 Cor.6:9 "defile" is the word in 1 Tim. 1:10 - Let's see how the 1828 Webster's defines those words.

"ABU'SER, n. s as z. One who abuses, in speech or behavior; one that deceives; a ravisher; a sodomite. 1 Cor 6."
"RAV'ISHER, n. 1. One that takes by violence. 2. One that forces a woman to his carnal embrace. 3. One that transports with delight.
"DEFILE, v.t. 5. To corrupt chastity; to debauch; to violate; to tarnish the purity of character by lewdness. Schechem defiled Dinah. Gen 34.
*Schechem raped Dinah

Since the 1828 Webster's gave us synonyms and one it gave is "sodomite", let's look at a respected current thesaurus on "sodomite" -

Roget's International Thesaurus, Eighth Edition, Revised and Updated 2022

"homosexual" is found in 75.14 but "sodomite" is found in section 75.16 and here is the word surrounded by close synonyms -

"pervert, perve, deviant, deviate, sex pervert, sex fiend, sex criminal, sex psychopath, sex addict; sick puppy; sodomist, sodomite, sob, bugger; pederast;"

It is clear "sodomite" and "homosexual" are NOT synonyms! The sodomite today is pretty much the same as in the 1828 Webster's

 

[Arthur81]

Thank you for your effort and post.

Word “meanings” change as “societies” change and “accept” what was the meaning to mean the “complete” opposite.

Nearly one hundred years ago EFFEMINATE meant:

EFFEM'INATE, adjective [Latin effoeminatus, from effoeminor, to grow or make womanish, from foemina, a woman. See Woman.]
1. Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous.
The king, by his voluptuous life and mean marriage, became effeminate and less sensible of honor.
2. Womanish; weak; resembling the practice or qualities of the sex; as an effeminatepeace; an effeminate life.
3. Womanlike, tender, in a sense not reproachful.
EFFEM'INATE, verb transitive To make womanish; to unman; to weaken; as to effeminate children.
EFFEM'INATE, verb intransitive To grow womanish or weak; to melt into weakness.
In a slothful peace courage will effeminate
(Source: the renown Noah Webster’s 1828 English Dictionary)

You used the “word GAY” to denote a homosexual.


GAY, adjective

1. Merry; airy; jovial; sportive; frolicksome. It denotes more life and animation than cheerful.

Belinda smiled, and all the world was gay

2. Fine; showy; as a gay dress.

3. Inflamed or merry with liquor; intoxicated; a vulgar use of the word in America.

GAY, noun An ornament. [Not used.]
( Source, Again Webster’s 1828 Dictionary.)

A long time favorite Christmas song….
Deck the Halls, has been sung in American Churches for over 100 years, INCLUDING the portion of the lyrics …. Let us don our GAY apparel. That has no implication or encouragement for men to dress up in Woman’s garments, but rather all donning Festive clothing.

GAY has lost its jubilant, festive meaning to expressly mean involved in homosexual activities, by participation, support thereof or as you did to accept it’s meaning changed by society.

AND BTW, I neither said nor implied Damning one to hell is something I assumed authority to effect.

Gods Word is the TRUTH. Every man has FREEWILL to believe and accept His TRUTH…OR NOT.
Consequences are NOT the SAME for those who FREELY CHOOSE Gods Word and Way and those who FREELY CHOOSE to NOT accept Gods Word and Way.
Christ Jesus IS the Judge.
Judging IS according to the Evidence in Gods books and records.

Glory to God,
Taken

I used the common word for today in public or open use. I do not know of any Bible translation that uses "gay" for malakos or arsenokoites. Does anyone know of a standard translation that uses "gay" for those?

 

[CadyandZoe]

I will be advocating for the side that homosexuality is inherently wrong, and the promotion of such actions and thoughts are evil. Similar or contrasting views are welcome and gladly accepted. Let us be in constant search for the truth during our discussion.

Hi Pooh Bear,
I made this short video on the subject. I argue that homosexuality is a violation of the created order. The video is based on Paul's argument in Romans 1.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Welcome to CB @Pooh Bear !

 

[TinMan]

Huh? Those who sexually abuse children are that minority!

and when you lie about a minority it is also sad, misguided and hateful.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Yea, God created man and woman to become one and procreate. The attraction to the same sex or the feeling of being the wrong gender— and there is only two: male and female—is the result of a biological disorder.

A person merely having a biological disorder and/or sincerely believing it's natural to be attracted to the same sex, or be of the opposite sex, etc., in itself doesn't mean they're going to hell. However, if one commits acts of lust of the flesh, whether with the same or opposite sex, married or unmarried, it's a sin. If committed willingly, knowing it is a sin, and is persisted in, the graver the sin.

ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN.
Not BELIEVING IN the Saviour, Jesus Christ and his D,B and resurrection by God, denying the need of redemption and remaining in sin, keeps one in the state of separation from knowing God; his love, character and attributes !

When ppl, as INDIVIDUALS stand before judgement, the books, will be opened and thereby judgement will be accordingly.
Not only the book of life, but the word of God we have and the record of what was presented by the Spirit unto us and what we rejected will judge us!

 

[Sigma]

ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN.
Not BELIEVING IN the Saviour, Jesus Christ and his D,B and resurrection by God, denying the need of redemption and remaining in sin, keeps one in the state of separation from knowing God; his love, character and attributes !

When ppl, as INDIVIDUALS stand before judgement, the books, will be opened and thereby judgement will be accordingly.
Not only the book of life, but the word of God we have and the record of what was presented by the Spirit unto us and what we rejected will judge us!

I was just referring to the sin of lust, in regards to sexual acts, specifically.

 

[Taken]

I based my belief on the direct, explicit statements of scripture about the Law of Moses not my logic. Child sacrifice is murder. Inbreeding as humanity spread, and became less perfect as it was in Eden, would be producing noticeable deformities and birth defects which common knowledge would regulate. It was not a problem for Cain or the immediate children and again Noah's grandchildren would 'commit' incest. It is interesting there is nothing forbidding incest until the Law of Moses. I doubt all cultures, nations or jurisdictions define incest the same in this day. Then we know that Jesus abolished the law at the cross: Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14; Heb. 8:13; 2 Cor. 3:7-11. Gentiles were never under the law -

"When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them" (Rom 2:14-15 NRSV)

If you have a problem with what the scriptures state, go to the Almighty about it. Don't try to blame it on my logic!

Jesus did not Abolish the Law…Jesus came to Fulfill the Law and did so accomplish that. The Condunrum for the Jews who Still reject Jesus as their Messiah, IS the Law required a yearly Pilgrimage to “The Temple”, to give their sin offerings. No Temple exists, although everything FOR a new TEMPLE is prepared….Where to build is their Dilemma.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[L.A.M.B.]

You don't have a word for affection between two of the same sex.

If a father loves a son, is that "homosexual"?

Your thoughts and replies are beyond ridiculous!
Do you live by the word of God or your own lusts & affections?
We are warned to avoid such who corrupt, twist and distort the very words of LIFE!

 

[Taken]

Yes, the meaning of words do change over time, and that is why you use the 1828 Webster's English Dictionary which is closer to the language of the KJV. Let's try it out on a couple of verses and see how we come out with it.

"EFFEM'INATE, a. [L. effoeminatus, from effoeminor, to grow or make womanish, from foemina, a woman. See Woman.]
1. Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous.
The king, by his voluptuous life and mean marriage, became effeminate, and less sensible of honor.
2. Womanish; weak; resembling the practice or qualities of the sex; as an effeminate peace; an effeminate life.
3. Womanlike, tender, in a sense not reproachful.
EFFEM'INATE, v.t. To make womanish; to unman; to weaken; as to effeminate children.
EFFEM'INATE, v.i. To grow womanish or weak; to melt into weakness.
In a slothful peace courage will effeminate."

I do not see a meaning of passive homosexual there or any sexual meaning of any type homo-, bi- or hetero-

Here we differ in seeing, understanding.
There is Scriptural protocal of STRENGTH…which by default reveals what is deemed WEAKER;
Strength protocal;
God, angels, man, woman, child…

EFFEMINATE is not only about appearance, but also behaviors, projections and weakness.
No doubt some effeminate persons are discrete while others continually all out perform for onlookers.

Let's see how much "effeminate" has changed since 1828 by looking at today's Merriam-Webster -

"effeminate adjective
1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
2 : marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement
effeminate art
an effeminate civilization

effeminate noun
: an effeminate person"

An effeminate person has not become a passive homosexual, have they? Since we are talking definitions, let's try two more. The word "abuser" is key in the KJV rendering of arsenokoites in 1 Cor.6:9 "defile" is the word in 1 Tim. 1:10 - Let's see how the 1828 Webster's defines those words.

"ABU'SER, n. s as z. One who abuses, in speech or behavior; one that deceives; a ravisher; a sodomite. 1 Cor 6."
"RAV'ISHER, n. 1. One that takes by violence. 2. One that forces a woman to his carnal embrace. 3. One that transports with delight.
"DEFILE, v.t. 5. To corrupt chastity; to debauch; to violate; to tarnish the purity of character by lewdness. Schechem defiled Dinah. Gen 34.
*Schechem raped Dinah

Since the 1828 Webster's gave us synonyms and one it gave is "sodomite", let's look at a respected current thesaurus on "sodomite" -

Roget's International Thesaurus, Eighth Edition, Revised and Updated 2022

"homosexual" is found in 75.14 but "sodomite" is found in section 75.16 and here is the word surrounded by close synonyms -

"pervert, perve, deviant, deviate, sex pervert, sex fiend, sex criminal, sex psychopath, sex addict; sick puppy; sodomist, sodomite, sob, bugger; pederast;"

It is clear "sodomite" and "homosexual" are NOT synonyms! The sodomite today is pretty much the same as in the 1828 Webster's

Thanks for your view, but I do not wish to go through the whole dictionary or thesaurus in a debate. I am at ease with my hearts thoughts.

Glory to God,
taken

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I was just referring to the sin of lust, in regards to sexual acts, specifically.

Yes, I know,I did read your post!

 

[Sigma]

Yes, I know,I did read your post!

Sorry for misunderstanding.

 

[Pooh Bear]

One might as well be asking Blue Eyes: Wrong or Right?

What are the similarities between blue eyes and sexuality?

 

[Taken]

I used the common word for today in public or open use. I do not know of any Bible translation that uses "gay" for malakos or arsenokoites. Does anyone know of a standard translation that uses "gay" for those?

No clue. I do not in general conversation refer to homosexual persons as “gay”.

 

[Sigma]

I'm still laughing over reading someone earlier insinuating King David was gay.

 

[Wrangler]

and when you lie about a minority it is also sad, misguided and hateful.

Agreed. That is exactly what you are doing.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Thank you for your effort and post.

Word “meanings” change as “societies” change and “accept” what was the meaning to mean the “complete” opposite.

Nearly one hundred years ago EFFEMINATE meant:

EFFEM'INATE, adjective [Latin effoeminatus, from effoeminor, to grow or make womanish, from foemina, a woman. See Woman.]
1. Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous.
The king, by his voluptuous life and mean marriage, became effeminate and less sensible of honor.
2. Womanish; weak; resembling the practice or qualities of the sex; as an effeminatepeace; an effeminate life.
3. Womanlike, tender, in a sense not reproachful.
EFFEM'INATE, verb transitive To make womanish; to unman; to weaken; as to effeminate children.
EFFEM'INATE, verb intransitive To grow womanish or weak; to melt into weakness.
In a slothful peace courage will effeminate
(Source: the renown Noah Webster’s 1828 English Dictionary)

You used the “word GAY” to denote a homosexual.


GAY, adjective

1. Merry; airy; jovial; sportive; frolicksome. It denotes more life and animation than cheerful.

Belinda smiled, and all the world was gay

2. Fine; showy; as a gay dress.

3. Inflamed or merry with liquor; intoxicated; a vulgar use of the word in America.

GAY, noun An ornament. [Not used.]
( Source, Again Webster’s 1828 Dictionary.)

A long time favorite Christmas song….
Deck the Halls, has been sung in American Churches for over 100 years, INCLUDING the portion of the lyrics …. Let us don our GAY apparel. That has no implication or encouragement for men to dress up in Woman’s garments, but rather all donning Festive clothing.

GAY has lost its jubilant, festive meaning to expressly mean involved in homosexual activities, by participation, support thereof or as you did to accept it’s meaning changed by society.

AND BTW, I neither said nor implied Damning one to hell is something I assumed authority to effect.

Gods Word is the TRUTH. Every man has FREEWILL to believe and accept His TRUTH…OR NOT.
Consequences are NOT the SAME for those who FREELY CHOOSE Gods Word and Way and those who FREELY CHOOSE to NOT accept Gods Word and Way.
Christ Jesus IS the Judge.
Judging IS according to the Evidence in Gods books and records.

Glory to God,
Taken

@Arthur81

"Effeminate" is a good translation in the context of 1 Corinthians 6. It refers to the passive male partner in homosexual intercourse.

 

[Arthur81]

Jesus did not Abolish the Law…Jesus came to Fulfill the Law and did so accomplish that. The Condunrum for the Jews who Still reject Jesus as their Messiah, IS the Law required a yearly Pilgrimage to “The Temple”, to give their sin offerings. No Temple exists, although everything FOR a new TEMPLE is prepared….Where to build is their Dilemma.

Glory to God,
Taken

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matt 5:17-18 KJV)

1828 Webster's - "FULFILL'ED, pp. Accomplished; performed; completed; executed."

After the Jesus has fulfilled the law, then the law of Moses, the Old Covenant passes away. ALL was then completed!

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" (Eph 2:15 KJV)

It looks to me like the scripture says Jesus "abolished" the law.

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Heb 8:13 KJV)

 

[Arthur81]

@Arthur81

"Effeminate" is a good translation in the context of 1 Corinthians 6. It refers to the passive male partner in homosexual intercourse.

And where did you find that novel definition of "effeminate"? I'd like to know in what English dictionary you found that.

 

[Arthur81]

No clue. I do not in general conversation refer to homosexual persons as “gay”.

I can believe that.