Homosexuality

[mjrhealth]

Yes its strange isnt it, He ate and wandered amongst the sinners, healed them and loved them and was there friend, yet whenever the pharrisees came along He was rebuking them for they where supposed to know God had know idea about love or who Jesus was for that matter.

In All Hie Love

 

[Raeneske]

Mjrhealth,

Open and bold sin was rebuked. And it was made known that hidden sin would be brought into judgment as well. The Pharisees were hypocrites, they had all that coming. And they purposely rejected Him.

No one is saying you cannot be friendly to a loved one, or even people you don't know. But you are the light of the world, thereore why do you hold your candle, and put it under a bushel? No one is saying you need to go screaming down the street "YOU'RE IN SIN, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!" But when someone ASKS, or BRINGS UP THE POINT, you are required to bring truth in front of them. If you do not, they will die in their iniquity, and it will be YOUR fault. Hence, their blood will be required at your hands. Sorry for caps, but if you decide never to say anything to any sinner, you're going to find yourself in a heap of trouble. Their blood will be on your hands. You spend your time talking to me about the Sabbath right? You believe i'm wrong, so you speak what you believe the Word says. You do that with everyone.

And I repeat, no one i asking youto go out, and point out every little sin, and destroy people. No, you rebuke open and bold sin, period, end of discussion.

 

[mjrhealth]

You do not get it do you. I have a friend who is religious, JW. Nice block, but very religious. One day while I was at his house and he had to pop out to drop his kids off, his wile comes and says. Can you tel e about these things, I listen to you to talk and all he ( her husband) ever does is talk about the bible but you seem to talk from experience. So we chatted, and in the end she said everything I told her she had being told by another christian. See thats how the holy Spirit works. Its not foe me to condemn or point out there problems that is what the Hols Spirit does, but He cant if you wont let Him do the work and do it yourself. As far as they are concerned you will always just be a self righteous christian condemning them, and you wonder why they wont listen, you have nothing to offer but condemnation.

in all His Love

 

[Raeneske]

You do not get it do you. I have a friend who is religious, JW. Nice block, but very religious. One day while I was at his house and he had to pop out to drop his kids off, his wile comes and says. Can you tel e about these things, I listen to you to talk and all he ( her husband) ever does is talk about the bible but you seem to talk from experience. So we chatted, and in the end she said everything I told her she had being told by another christian. See thats how the holy Spirit works. Its not foe me to condemn or point out there problems that is what the Hols Spirit does, but He cant if you wont let Him do the work and do it yourself. As far as they are concerned you will always just be a self righteous christian condemning them, and you wonder why they wont listen, you have nothing to offer but condemnation.

in all His Love

Was it for Jonah, to point out the problems of Ninevah?

Was it for Jesus to point out the hypocricy of the Pharisees?

Was it for the man that rebuked his brother in person for sinning against him?

Was it for John the Baptist, to point out the sins of Herod marrying his brother's wife?

Was it for Jesus to rebuke the lawyers, and the publicans?

Was it for Elijah, Elisha, Enoch, Isaiah, etc. to rebuke the sins of the nations they lived in.

A christian will have compassion on the multitude, but a Christian will not sugarcoat the facts. Sin is sin. Just like the men of old, God is looking for bold, yet compassionate people, who can do His service. They must bear their testimonies in the face of kings, queens, presidents, supposed great mean of religious valor, etc. They will bear unflinching testimonies. It is not us who convict the souls. We preach the word of God with compassion, and share the truth. God convicts. The truth is not cloaked, but your words are seasoned with grace. You preach the truth, if someone asks, "Will I be in trouble if I don't give this up", you do not turn around and go, "God knows your heart, you'll be okay". You say, "Yes, you will be in trouble. But fear not, and take courage, you are struggling, but behold grab ahold of God by faith, and you will win this battle, and Satan will be overcome".

 

[mjrhealth]

And Jesus has forgiven them too.

As for that list, see they did it all in the spirit of God, they where not christians running around in the flesh, playing Jesus. As I said, if its Not done in the Spirit, if Jesus has no part, all they will see is a self righteous christian condemning them, its fully how christians feel the same way when the truth is spoken. As Jesus said,

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

In All His Love


Now again in response, Jesus never rebuked teh publicans it was in fact teh Pharisees that picked on Jesus for going to them, it was those in authority He rebuked.

Luk 5:27 And after these things he went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me.
Luk 5:28 And he left all, rose up, and followed him.
Luk 5:29 And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.
Luk 5:30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?
Luk 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Tell me , who received the rebuke.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Again who was it received the rebuke.

Go look see for yourself.

Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Again who got the rebuke, be carefull you do not become as them

 

[Raeneske]

Mark 2:16-17 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Publicans and sinners were still rebuked for their iniquity. You cannot call someone to repentance, without stating what they need to repent of. The Pharisees however, were rebuked openly and boldly for their iniquity, and their hypocrisy.

The men who went in the power and spirit of Elias, still rebuked people, whether they liked it or not. Iniquity, and sin are going to be rebuked. Never has this meant that we are never going to have compassion upon them. When they are struggling, we have compassion, when they are erring and angry, we have compassion. But sin is sin. Bear the Word of God, it's going to offend people, and there is nothing you can do about that. So if a homosexual asks if their sin is going to get them into trouble, you are to be straighforward and truthful. "Yes, this will get you into trouble. But fear not, the Lord will save you from your sins. Your sin is more open than others, which makes it a little more difficult. But if you claim the promises of the Lord through faith, you shall make it through this." Completely direct, no excuses. Yet mingled with hope and compassion. The Word will cut their hearts.

And if they come to you with a pompous attitude saying, "This isn't anything, I can cherish this. The Lord loves us all", you still have to turn aroud and say, "No, you are wrong. The Lord may indeed love you, but that does not mean you can cherish this sin. If you do not repent of this sin, you will find yourself in trouble with the Lord. Repent, desire righteousness, and the Lord will free you from the curse Satan is trying to place upon you."

Now, I'm not claiming every Christian handles this correctly, or perfectly, or even that I have always done it correctly, or that I have done it perfectly. However, that does not take away your duty. You tell them, or they shall die in their sins. It is your responsibility, and if you do not do it, you pay the price.

 

[epostle1]

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Our state's elected lawmakers will soon consider a bill called "The Religious Freedom and Marriage Fairness Act." A more fraudulent title for this dangerous measure could not be imagined. The proposed law is, in truth, a grave assault upon both religious liberty and marriage. All people of goodwill, and especially Christ's faithful committed to my pastoral care in the Diocese of Springfield in Illinois, should resolutely oppose this bill and make their opinions known to their representatives.

The pending bill would, for the first time in our state's history, redefine marriage to legally recognize same-sex "marriages." But neither two men nor two women - nor, for that matter, three or more people - can possibly form a marriage. Our law would be lying if it said they could.

The basic structure of marriage as the exclusive and lasting relationship of a man and a woman, committed to a life which is fulfilled by having children, is given to us in human nature, and thus by nature's God. Notwithstanding the vanity of human wishes, every society in human history - including every society untouched by Jewish or Christian revelation - has managed to grasp this profound truth about human relationships and happiness: marriage is the union of man and woman.
The bill's sponsors maintain it would simply extend marriage to some people who have long been arbitrarily excluded from it. They are wrong. The pending bill would not expand the eligibility-roster for marriage. It would radically redefine what marriage is- for everybody.
It would enshrine in our law - and thus in public opinion and practice - three harmful ideas:

1. What essentially makes a marriage is romantic-emotional union.
2. Children don't need both a mother and father.
3. The main purpose of marriage is adult satisfactions.

These ideas would deepen the sexual revolution's harms on all society. After all, if marriage is an emotional union meant for adult satisfactions, why should it be sexually exclusive? Or limited to two? Or pledged to permanence? If children don't need both their mother and father, why should fathers stick around when romance fades? As marriage is redefined, it becomes harder for people to see the point of these profoundly important marital norms, to live by them, and to encourage others to do the same. The resulting instability hurts spouses, but also - and especially - children, who do best when reared by their committed mother and father.
Indeed, children's need - and right - to be reared by the mother and father whose union brought them into being explains why our law has recognized marriage as a conjugal partnership - the union of husband and wife - at all. Our lawmakers have understood that marriage is naturally oriented to procreation, to family. Of course, marriage also includes a committed, intimate relationship of a sort which some same-sex couples (or multiple lovers in groups of three or more) could imitate. But our law never recognized and supported marriage in order to regulate intimacy for its own sake. The reason marriage is recognized in civil law at all (as ordinary friendships, or other sacraments, are not) is specific to the committed, intimate relationships of people of opposite-sex couples: they are by nature oriented to having children. Their love-making acts are life-giving acts.

Same-sex relationships lack this unique predicate of state recognition and support. Even the most ideologically blinded legislator cannot change this natural fact: the sexual acts of a same-sex couple (regardless of how one views them morally) are simply not of the type that yield the gift of new life. So they cannot extend a union of hearts by a true bodily union. They cannot turn a friendship into the one-flesh union of marriage. They are not marital. This is not just a Christian idea, but one common to every major religious tradition and our civilization's great philosophical traditions, beginning with ancient Greece and Rome.

The pending bill is not only a dangerous social experiment about marriage. It is also a lethal attack upon religious liberty. This so-called "religious freedom" would not stop the state from obligating the Knights of Columbus to make their halls available for same-sex "weddings." It would not stop the state from requiring Catholic grade schools to hire teachers who are legally "married" to someone of the same sex. This bill would not protect Catholic hospitals, charities, or colleges, which exclude those so "married" from senior leadership positions. Nor would it protect me, the Bishop of Springfield, if I refused to employ someone in a same-sex "marriage" who applied to the Diocese for a position meant to serve my ministry as your bishop. This "religious freedom" law does nothing at all to protect the consciences of people in business, or who work for the government. We saw the harmful consequences of deceptive titles all too painfully last year when the so-called "Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Union Act" forced Catholic Charities out of foster care and adoption services in Illinois.

These threats do not raise a question about drafting a better law, one with more extensive conscience protections. There is no possible way - none whatsoever- for those who believe that marriage is exclusively the union of husband and wife to avoid legal penalties and harsh discriminatory treatment if the bill becomes law. Why should we expect it be otherwise? After all, we would be people who, according to the thinking behind the bill, hold onto an "unfair" view of marriage. The state would have equated our view with bigotry - which it uses the law to marginalize in every way short of criminal punishment.

The only way to protect religious liberty, and to preserve marriage, is to defeat this perilous proposal. Please make sure our elected representatives understand that and know that they will be held to account.

Sincerely yours in Christ,
Most Reverend Thomas John Paprocki
Bishop of Springfield in Illinois

http://www.dio.org/blog/item/326.html

 

[KingJ]

Sorry Kingj we have no right to judge any man, we are not perfect as He is perfect neither do we judge as He judges, and as the "bible" says

,Luk_6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Luk_12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

And foreigner, if you did not count as one of them than there would of being no need to post. It is difficult, one cannot show the love of God in words, one can only show Love, Its a difficult thing to find even in christians.

In His Love

Why are you ignoring all the explaining I did?

A mature Christian should grasp the context and application of 'judge not and ye shall not be judged'.

EvErY hOmO-sExUaL tHaT cAlLs ThEmSeLf A ChRiStIaN nEeDs To Be JuDgEd AcCoRdInG tO ChRiStIaN StAnDaRdS.
There would be no '''judging''' to be miss-interpreted (expected by a sinner) as '''condemning''' if they DID NOT call themselves Christians. We are NOT to condemn!!! Paul was the chiefest sinner! but we ARE to discern!!!

1 Cor 11:30-32
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

If we are speaking to a Christian battling with homosexuality, we need to give them the truth (wielded with a bit of skill). Certainly not sugar-coated and certainly not say or do nothing! Which is what you seem to be encouraging?? am I wrong? How would you minister to a Christian battling with being gay?

How does Luke 12:57 support your view? Paul is simply stating that we should to be able to judge for ourselves and avoid court. I am curious as to how you interpreted it?

55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

You do not get it do you. I have a friend who is religious, JW. Nice block, but very religious. One day while I was at his house and he had to pop out to drop his kids off, his wile comes and says. Can you tel e about these things, I listen to you to talk and all he ( her husband) ever does is talk about the bible but you seem to talk from experience. So we chatted, and in the end she said everything I told her she had being told by another christian. See thats how the holy Spirit works. Its not foe me to condemn or point out there problems that is what the Hols Spirit does, but He cant if you wont let Him do the work and do it yourself. As far as they are concerned you will always just be a self righteous christian condemning them, and you wonder why they wont listen, you have nothing to offer but condemnation.

in all His Love

So the Christian who told them was self righteous? and you were good because you said, nothing? gave no confirmation.... You do know that our steps as a Christian are pre-destined. God expects us to make a stand for Him where He sends us.

We are ambassadors for Christ!

If someone is convcited by the Holy Spirit, they better be convicted by us too. The Holy Spirit does not condemn! If Jesus doesn't....the Holy Spirit doesnt. You quoted that scripture remember. To see Christians making a stand for the bible, discerning and opposing sin as condemning anyone is very naive.

 

[mjrhealth]

be convicted by us too

Not your Job, that is the Job of the Holy Spirit.

In All His Love

 

[KingJ]

Not your Job, that is the Job of the Holy Spirit.

In All His Love

Sorry, but you are wrong. Matthew 5:14-16
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

What do you think light does to darkness? What did the presence of Jesus do to the fallen angels? Why do you think they killed the US ambassador?

 

[DoUPray2]

I’m speaking to the men (and some women) [throughout these 37 pages] who have not yet mortified pornography / masturbating and who are committing adultery everyday AND yet believe themselves to be saved by the blood of the Lamb. Please know that I am not writing this to condemn you but to get your attention and to graciously point out that in spite of your struggles, you love the Lord. Correct? And I know that He loves you and wants to deliver you from those things that do so easily beset you.

In seeing your own sexual struggles, I hope it's a bit clearer to see that there are those who love the Lord but struggle with homosexuality? But yet some have judged, tarred and feathered them ALL as going to hell. And the truly sad thing about it is that they probably want help (deliverance) but can’t come into the church and admit it because of all the ‘judgers’ (by the way believe they are saved) and the gossipers (who also believe they are saved).

What’s a Christian to do? We are to love others into the kingdom, yes, I said love them in instead of condemning them. You do realize that you don’t clean the fish BEFORE you catch it, right!!

I would like to ask the majority of you who judge homosexuals.... when you are at work, what do you talk about? Are you full of condemnation at work? People there can hear you talking all over place, probably. When was the last time anyone from your work wanted to go to church with you? Maybe they are guilty of judging too; they judge your church by listening to you!!

We are called to love before we are ever called to preach or teach. Do a search of all the verses on love. An important one is: if you love only those who love you, what good are you? And Jesus said in John 12.32, "If "I" be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me."

Submitted in love,
Lisa

 

[KingJ]

I’m speaking to the men (and some women) [throughout these 37 pages] who have not yet mortified pornography / masturbating and who are committing adultery everyday AND yet believe themselves to be saved by the blood of the Lamb. Please know that I am not writing this to condemn you but to get your attention and to graciously point out that in spite of your struggles, you love the Lord. Correct? And I know that He loves you and wants to deliver you from those things that do so easily beset you.

In seeing your own sexual struggles, I hope it's a bit clearer to see that there are those who love the Lord but struggle with homosexuality? But yet some have judged, tarred and feathered them ALL as going to hell. And the truly sad thing about it is that they probably want help (deliverance) but can’t come into the church and admit it because of all the ‘judgers’ (by the way believe they are saved) and the gossipers (who also believe they are saved).

What’s a Christian to do? We are to love others into the kingdom, yes, I said love them in instead of condemning them. You do realize that you don’t clean the fish BEFORE you catch it, right!!

I would like to ask the majority of you who judge homosexuals.... when you are at work, what do you talk about? Are you full of condemnation at work? People there can hear you talking all over place, probably. When was the last time anyone from your work wanted to go to church with you? Maybe they are guilty of judging too; they judge your church by listening to you!!

We are called to love before we are ever called to preach or teach. Do a search of all the verses on love. An important one is: if you love only those who love you, what good are you? And Jesus said in John 12.32, "If "I" be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me."

Submitted in love,
Lisa

Lisa, put some effort into at least reading the last 2 pages please. Your view has been well discussed. Perhaps single out someones post. With your view you will disagree with all of mine. Go and quote them.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Yes its strange isnt it, He ate and wandered amongst the sinners, healed them and loved them and was there friend, yet whenever the pharrisees came along He was rebuking them for they where supposed to know God had know idea about love or who Jesus was for that matter.

In All Hie Love

But what is your point? Firstly did Jesus say or no anything if He didn't affirm God's creation purpose for man and woman in union (Gen 2, Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5, etc) and condemn same-sex relations (1 Cor 6-7, Romans 1) What sort of game are we supposed to be playing with you, you can quote passsages we must believe but you dont have to believe the ones we quote?

Jesus didnt befriend all sinners who came to Him as you imply, read Matthew 18 about how the church should treat those who sin.
17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Furthermore, Jesus did not treat all the Pharisees the same, Nichodemus who came to Jesus wanting to know was not told he was a whitewashed tomb like those Pharisees who argued with Jesus.

But the point of course is that Jesus never condoned sin. How could He when He was the sacrifice for it.

 

[Raeneske]

Not your Job, that is the Job of the Holy Spirit.

In All His Love

Correct -- We do not convict. However, we bear the message. We are co-workers with God. So, you must inform people about sin.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Matthew 5:14-16
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

What do you think light does to darkness? What did the presence of Jesus do to the fallen angels? Why do you think they killed the US ambassador?

Incorrect -- we do not convict. We are the light, and we bring the word to them. We cooperate with the Holy Ghost. We are to give the plain spoken message, the Holy Ghost will convict.

 

[KingJ]

Raeneske said:
Incorrect -- we do not convict. We are the light, and we bring the word to them. We cooperate with the Holy Ghost. We are to give the plain spoken message, the Holy Ghost will convict.

Incorrect . As Christians we are dead. Jesus lives in us. He brings the light into the world which convicts it. I think you are confusing conviction with guiding. If the Holy Spirit tells us something, it is guiding / exhorting. If we feel guilty, it is because we see evil in the light (conviction). The Holy Spirit is here to reveal Jesus and teach us.

Gal 2:20, I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[mjrhealth]

Rev_12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Now are you included in that or are you one who prays for them. Which side are you on.

If you do not go around pointing fingers at people,"accusing", them of being sinners than satan has no case against them. But if you call them sinner than you satan has a witness, you. Now :-

1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Are you part of the defense or part of the prosecution.


Luk_11:35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

In All His Love

 

[KingJ]

Rev_12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Now are you included in that or are you one who prays for them. Which side are you on.

If you do not go around pointing fingers at people,"accusing", them of being sinners than satan has no case against them. But if you call them sinner than you satan has a witness, you. Now :-

1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Are you part of the defense or part of the prosecution.


Luk_11:35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

In All His Love

Sure this post is fine, but as a reply to mine . You need a dictionary not a bible. You are battling with your definitions and making converstaion with you frustrating.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sure this post is fine, but as a reply to mine . You need a dictionary not a bible. You are battling with your definitions and making converstaion with you frustrating.

Is it not written, that the truth will set you free.

In All His Love

 

[KingJ]

Is it not written, that the truth will set you free.

In All His Love

Those who hold onto a little bit of truth are dangerous.

 

[mjrhealth]

Those who hold onto a little bit of truth are dangerous.

Those who profess a lie are worse.

Rev_13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

In all His Love