You know, I'm almost convinced God's plan was to put pedophiles in clergy just so Catholics can discern which alleged Christians are actually Christians. Wacth the alleged 78% of America who claims to be Christian, for example, resemble the worldly people that most of them in fact are. Bearing false witness to an entire instiution is a mortal sin, and unChristian. So is faulting the merely accused as well. Maybe I'll go accuse you of something, and defame your lifestyle. How does that sound?Rex said:
Homosexuality
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In the first place you lead with rather sick perverted perspective, but you affirm the problem.SilenceInMotion said:
Then by implication you say it isn't so, its merely an accusation and not the reality.
I presume the latter is the indirect answer to my question below
Rex said:
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
When it comes to pedophilia in the catholic church, I think it is best for outsiders to view it as a cautionary tale and take inventory of their our systematic sinful cover ups within their denominations and churches. Whether it is hidden molestation or unchecked pride in the pulpit - all of us need a house cleaning.
No, you are the problem. Those such as yourself who choose to do nothing then accuse and convict like the Devil himself, but then turn around and call yourself a Christian.Rex said:
Those like you could actually learn from the Catholic perspective.
We're not the ones telling the entire world they are going to Hell if they don't confess Jesus is Lord, including all your non-Christian loved ones. I'm surprised at how society even accepts you. Perhaps if that fact was put explicitly to light, they wouldn't hate Catholics so much. If you ask me, it's all too clear who has a perverted perspective.
That is so very true you don't, a very different Gospel indeed than the one I teach.SilenceInMotion said:
I teach John 14:6
The battle of the Spirit revealed
The contents of the heart
It is a legal fiction. The gospel of Christ was put forth 1500 years before your's came up. Are you arrogant enough to discount a whopping 1500 years of history and people for a single monk's heresy?Rex said:
Of course. That is what Protestantism is about. You believe in an unjust, unreasonable, fictitious god, propped up by a shallow intepretation of the Bible, propped up by a heretical doctrine.
Running in circles- that is what those such as yourself do. Do babies go to Hell? They don't have faith. Neither do all the people in China. Protestantism is dark and ugly, I don't hink you fully comprehend what anabatists, Puritans, Lutherans, and the like were really like. Even someone like yourself would have gotten the rough end of them, I can guarentee you that. Your gospel is anything but benevolent.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Men wrote the Scriptures as the Holy Spirit (GOD), gave them utterance. So, you can view the Scriptures as direct from the heart of God, to YOU.KCKID said:
Depends doesn't it? There are many false Christs. Many that come in His Name.aspen2 said:
The Bible was not created by Martin Luther, SIM. And I cannot find any of your major doctrines in the Bible.SilenceInMotion said:
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Well Axehead - I usually assume that my neighbor who proclaims his love for Christ is following the same Christ until he proves otherwise. Selfless love is a good sign.
Right, it was created by the Church fathers. Says a lot about your doctrines verus mine. I can't find any reason or intent on why they would put together a canon of scripture and then make doctrines that are against it. It's pretty clear to me that Protestant doctrine is just wrong. It was a protest, among many others through history, that should have died with history like the rest of them.Axehead said:
But if an entire worldwide communion can form out of the sheer audacity of a king who couldn't get his marriage anulled, I suppose the possibilities are endless.
That sounds fine to you and it might sound fine to me; however, others would be quite justified in stating that this is circular reasoning and cannot be taken as fact. In other words, what you are saying is that the Bible ITSELF is saying that the Bible is the word of God. You are stating as fact something that cannot be proven. And, proof of something is required by many before it can be validated and therefore believed. Understand the dilemma?Axehead said:
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
not to mention the other elephant in the room.....the bible never claims to be the word of God. Jesus is called the Word of God.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
If that is the case, why did the RCC allow priests to marry originally?
The only reason it was stopped was due to the fact that the church was losing control over a lot of real estate as the wife of a deceased priest inherited his belongings and property.
Their answer to this was to make singleness a condition of priesthood.
The reasons you state are theological niceties and not found in scripture, neither is the priesthood.
Yes, of course. Until proven (manifested), otherwise. One who has Christ will bear Christ's fruit.aspen2 said:
Quote
Not being married has nothing to do with holiness (obviously) or power for service (Holy Spirit).
Walking in His footsteps has everything to do with obedience to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Now, you can look at your religious organization and think again whether single people have anything over married people and vice-versa. It all comes down to your heart not your marital status.
Well, while I'm in no better position than any of the rest of you to interpret absolutely accurately EVERY vague or ambiguous scripture, I would say that there is much validity in the article you posted. I don't know Walter Wink either but he sure makes a lot of sense. What is it about his interpretations of scripture that you don't care for? Can you prove that what he says is incorrect? You see, that's what you need to do ...PROVE someone is either correct or incorrect. You can't just say, "I don't like so-and-so's interpretation of scripture," and just leave it like that. People need to know why you don't agree with someone's take and then you need to provide a counter argument and also present it for scrutiny.Rex said:
I gave the 'yawn' (more as a joke) because the scriptures you presented had no relevance to the topic. That said, I'm willing to cooperate. What specific scriptures would you like me to address?Rex said:
The Church "fathers" that I know of are the writers of the NT Scriptures.
The Old Testament was given to by many different prophets. Two kings were among them.
Who did you have in mind?
The Old Testament was given to by many different prophets. Two kings were among them.
Who did you have in mind?
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
If you are trying to make a point you failed miserably as someone who is humble would not make a comment like this.
Discern the difference: there are those who are humble that are saved, and there are those who are zealous that are saved.
I am zealous. Heed my signature- if you want to become great, be baptized by fire.
I am zealous. Heed my signature- if you want to become great, be baptized by fire.
I was just giving my definition of "a Christian" as was asked of me ...it wasn't so much a description of me. If I'd been asked to give a definition of 'me' it would have been more like ...hmmm, now, let me see ...handsome, intelligent, sexy, articulate, talented, impeccably regarded and, um, what else . . .? Oh yeah, that's right ...I'm also very modest . . . B)marksman said:
Unmasking the "gay" agenda
Balance of Power
Americans who self-identify as "gay" or lesbian comprise roughly one to
three percent of the population. Yet the homosexual movement — led by
extremist homosexual pressure groups like the so-called Human Rights
Campaign (HRC) — represent, per capita, one of America's most powerful
and well-funded political lobbies. Consider that HRC and the HRC
foundation alone have an annual budget in excess of 50 million.
Through a carefully crafted, decades-old propaganda campaign, homosexual
activists have successfully cast homosexuals — many of whom enjoy
positions of influence and affluence — as a disadvantaged minority.
They have repackaged and sold to the public behaviors which thousands of
years of history, every major world religion and uncompromising human
biology have long identified as immoral and sexually deviant.
The Goal
As with every major political movement, the homosexual lobby is pushing a
specific agenda. It is often called the "gay agenda." At its core is a
concerted effort to remove from society all traditional notions of
sexual morality and replace them with the post-modern concept of sexual
relativism. That is to say, when it comes to sex, there is never right or wrong. All sexual appetites are "equal." If it feels good, do it.
Ultimately, the homosexual lobby's primary objective is to radically
redefine our foundational institutions of legitimate marriage and the
nuclear family by unraveling God's natural design for human sexuality.
In so doing, they hope to elevate their own spiritual and biological
counterfeit and establish a sexually androgynous society wherein natural
distinctions between male and female are dissolved.
This creates cultural and moral anarchy.
Plan of Attack
Ironically, sexual relativists are anything but relative. They are
quite affirmative in principle. But the principles they foist demand
comprehensive acceptance of homosexual conduct — by force of law —
through federal edicts such as "hate crimes" legislation, the so-called
"Employment Non-Discrimination Act" (ENDA) and by imposing government
sanctioned "same-sex marriage." All such government mandates grant
special protected "minority" status to those who define themselves by
aberrant sexual preferences and changeable sexual behaviors. These laws
put people with traditional values directly in the crosshairs of
official government policy.
Throughout society, homosexual activists demand that homosexual
behaviors not only be "tolerated," but celebrated. (That's what the
euphemistic slogan "celebrate diversity" supposes). They have masked
their true political agenda by hijacking the language of the genuine
civil rights movement and through the crafty and disingenuous rhetoric
of "tolerance" and "diversity."
Anyone who believes the Biblical directive that human sexuality is a
gift from God, to be shared between man and wife within the bonds of
marriage, is branded "homophobic," "hateful" or "discriminatory." They
are to be silenced by all means possible.
In Their Own Words
What you are about to read is just a quick, though disturbing, glance behind the homosexual lobby's lavender curtain.
Below are two of the central demands put forth by homosexual activists in their "1972 Gay Rights Platform":
- "Repeal all laws governing the age of sexual consent."
(This should send a chill down the spine of any parent. It would
legally allow pedophiles, and homosexuals who were so inclined, to
access your children and teens for their own predatory sexual
gratification — so long as those children "consented" to having sex.)
- "Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit."
(Once marriage is redefined, there can be no logical or ethical
objection to any conceivable "marriage" combination, including
polygamous "marriages." By watering down marriage, "gay" activists and
like-minded politicos [usually activist judges] remove this foundational
institution's intrinsic value.)
Here are just a few of the demands the homosexual lobby put forth during the 1987 (Homosexual) "March on Washington":
- "The government should provide protection from discrimination
based on sexual orientation in employment, public accommodations and
education just as protection is provided on race, creed, color, sex, or
national origin." ([ENDA] This would force all religious
business owners, landlords and schools to abandon — under penalty of law
— sincerely held and constitutionally protected religious beliefs and
adopt a view of sexual morality that runs entirely counter to central
teachings of every major world religion.)
- "Anti-homophobic curriculum in the schools."
(Translation: pro-homosexual, government-mandated indoctrination. This
is already occurring in thousands of public schools throughout America.
Children are being force-fed the absurd notion that male-male anal
sodomy is a perfectly acceptable, "alternative" sexual "orientation."
This calculated propaganda continues to expand, despite the fact that
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has acknowledged
that such behaviors place participants at extremely high risk for
dangerous and often deadly infectious disease.)
- "The government should ensure all public education
programs include programs designed to combat lesbian/gay prejudice. ...
Institutions that discriminate against lesbian and gay people should be
denied tax-exempt status and federal funding." (This means
churches, religious schools and religious businesses. Some
jurisdictions, such as the state of New Jersey, have already begun
removing tax-exempt status from church related ministries that refuse to
provide "commitment ceremonies" to homosexuals.)
- "Public and private institutions should support parenting by lesbian or gay couples."
(This is now being mandated in many states such as California and
Massachusetts. In Massachusetts, Catholic Charities' adoption service
was recently forced to close down because it refused to assign children
to homosexuals for adoption.)
The push for federal "hate crimes" legislation is another activist tool
intended to silence traditional views on human sexuality and sexual
morality. Similar laws have already been used around the world, and
even right here at home, to persecute Christians and other
traditionalists. For example, in 2004, 11 Christians were arrested in
Philadelphia and charged with a "hate crime" for merely preaching the
Bible at a public homosexual street festival. They could have served up
to 47 years in prison.
More recently, a Christian photographer was dragged before the New
Mexico Human Rights Division for refusing to photograph a "commitment
ceremony" for a lesbian couple because lesbian behavior is inconsistent
with Christianity.
Such stark examples of homofascist persecution continue to mount. And
they're by design. Noted homosexual activist and pornographer Clinton
Fein addressed the "gay" agenda in a 2005 article candidly titled, "The
Gay Agenda":
- On "hate crimes" laws: "Hate Crime laws are just the
beginning. Once those are passed either federally or in all 50 states,
begin campaign to eliminate homophobia entirely."
- On "hate thoughts" and "hate speech" laws: "Homophobic inclinations alone, even without any actions, should be criminal and punishable to the full extent of the law."
- On influencing public policy: "Make sure that gay representation permeates every level of governance."
- On "same-sex marriage": "Demand the institution and then
wreck it. James Dobson was right about our evil intentions. We just
plan to be quicker than he thought."
- On "gays" in the Church: "Reclaim Jesus. He was a Jewish queer to begin with, and don't let anyone forget it."
The homosexual lobby's goals have been clearly defined for decades. But
for any goal to be successfully achieved, clever stratagem and sound
methodology must be diligently applied.
In their manuscript, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's
(1989, Doubleday/Bantam), Harvard educated marketing experts Marshall
Kirk and Hunter Madsen meticulously laid out the homosexual lobby's
blueprint for success in what is widely regarded as the handbook for the
"gay" agenda.
They devised a three-pronged approach that the homosexual lobby has
masterfully implemented in subsequent years: Desensitization, Jamming
and Conversion.
Kirk and Madsen summarized their approach this way:
- Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers.
- Give potential protectors a just cause.
- Make gays look good.
- Make victimizers look bad.
Desensitization
"Desensitization," wrote Kirk and Madsen, means subjecting the public to
a "continuous flood of gay-related advertising, presented in the least
offensive fashion possible. If 'straights' can't shut off the shower,
they may at least eventually get used to being wet."
As previously stated, glamorizing and normalizing homosexual conduct in
our public schools is a full time endeavor. But the schools represent
only one field of battle in the war over America's body, mind and soul.
With the aid of a willing mainstream media and a like-minded Hollywood,
societal desensitization has been largely achieved. Blockbusters like
Tom Hanks' Philadelphia, the late Heath Ledger's Brokeback Mountain, and television programs like Will and Grace and Ellen
represent a modern-day fairy tale, creating a dishonest and sympathetic
portrayal of a lifestyle which is emotionally, spiritually and
physically sterile.
Reality is replaced with fantasy. Gone are references to, or images of,
the millions of homosexual men wasting away in hospice due to
behaviorally related diseases such as HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis and Syphilis.
(Unnatural behaviors beget natural consequences. As Romans 6:23 says,
"The wages of sin is death.")
And gone are references to, or images of, men and women trapped in the
homosexual lifestyle who aimlessly seek to fill a spiritual and
emotional void through promiscuous and meaningless sexual encounters.
The homosexual group, GLAAD, even offers awards to the television
networks that most effectively carry the homosexual lobby's water. The
more distorted and positive the portrayal of homosexual conduct and the
more frequently the networks shows such portrayals; the more likely
networks are to win the coveted awards.
As Kirk and Madsen put it, homosexuals should be portrayed as the
"Everyman." "In no time," they said, "a skillful and clever media
campaign could have the gay community looking like the veritable fairy
godmother to Western Civilization."
Prophetic words from two very smart men.
Jamming
"Jamming" refers to the public smearing of Christians, traditionalists
or anyone else who opposes the "gay" agenda. "Jam homo-hatred (i.e.,
disagreement with homosexual behaviors) by linking it to Nazi horror,"
wrote Kirk and Madsen. "Associate all who oppose homosexuality with
images of 'Klansmen demanding that gays be slaughtered,' 'hysterical
backwoods preachers,' 'menacing punks,' and a 'tour of Nazi
concentration camps where homosexuals were tortured and gassed.'
"In any campaign to win over the public, gays must be portrayed as
victims in need of protection so that straights will be inclined by
reflex to adopt the role of protector ... The purpose of victim imagery
is to make straights feel very uncomfortable," they suggested.
But, perhaps Kirk and Madsen's most revealing admission came when they
said, "[O]ur effect is achieved without reference to facts, logic, or
proof."
And so words like "homophobe" and "heterosexism" were pulled from thin
air, not because they had substance, but because they were effective
jamming tools. Anyone who holds traditional values relative to human
sexuality suddenly became a "homophobe," a "hatemonger," a "bigot."
Not even churches are safe.
"Gays can undermine the moral authority of homo-hating churches over
less fervent adherents by portraying [them] as antiquated backwaters,
badly out of step ... with the latest findings of psychology. Against
the atavistic tug of 'Old Time Religion' one must set the mightier pull
of science and public opinion. ... Such an 'unholy' alliance has already
worked well in America against the churches, on such topics as divorce
and abortion. ... [T]hat alliance can work for gays."
And, oh, how it has.
Conversion
"Conversion" means, in the words of Kirk and Madsen, "conversion of the
average American's emotions, mind, and will, through a planned
psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via
the media."
"In the early stages of any campaign to reach straight America, the
masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to
homosexual behavior itself. Instead, the imagery of sex should be
downplayed and gay rights should be reduced to an abstract social
question as much as possible. First let the camel get his nose inside
the tent — and only later his unsightly derriere!"
So, as Kirk and Madsen both astutely understood and surprisingly
admitted, homosexual activism is really a big game of "hide the ball."
In order to achieve widespread acceptance of "gayness," they had to
remove the focus from what homosexuality really is (deviant sexual conduct) and shift it onto the craftily manufactured specter of "gay civil rights."
In order to cut through much of the propagandist sugarcoating, one need only consider what two men must actually do
in order to "consummate" a so-called "gay marriage." Kirk and Madsen
understood that. Most people are repulsed by the mechanics of
homosexual conduct, but everyone is for "civil rights." Of
course, in reality, the homosexual lifestyle has nothing to do with
civil rights and everything to do with conduct.
Therein lies the deception.
But There's Hope
There's hope for people who are trapped in the homosexual lifestyle or
who suffer from unwanted same-sex attraction. Part of our fallen
condition as humans is that we are all subject to sin. Those who know
the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ, are no better or worse than those
who engage in homosexual sin.
But through the loving and redemptive power of Jesus Christ, we can all
find salvation from sin. So can homosexuals. "Gayness" is not an
"immutable" or unchangeable condition as homosexual apologists would
have you believe. People can find freedom from homosexual behaviors and
even from same-sex attractions. It's not easy, but untold thousands of
former homosexuals have done it.
There's also hope in the ongoing battle between the "gay" agenda and our
national moral integrity. Concerned Women for America (CWA) endeavors
on a daily basis to counter this destructive movement throughout all
facets of culture and public policy.
With God's help, we can turn back the tide of sexual and moral
relativism that has both permeated our society and offended our founding
principles.
(For more information about Concerned Women for America and to learn how
you can be part of unmasking the "gay" agenda, please call us at (202)
488-7000 or visit CWA's website at www.cwfa.org.)
© J. Matt Barber
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