Homosexuality

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is homosexuality a sin?


  • Total voters
    133
Status
Not open for further replies.

SilenceInMotion

New Member
Dec 10, 2012
304
10
0
36
Virginia, USA
Almighty God has delievered a covenant of grace, and here are Christians who call evil good and good evil.

The end times are near, for this is the first time in history a false prophet can successfully arise- look at how easy it is to disturb society- the Sandy Hook shooting never happened, Osama is still alive, and people are issuing a false gospel. Have the stones to admit it, or be a sheep, it is your salvation, not mine.
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

Many are called but few are chosen.
Feb 23, 2013
860
24
18
AUSTRALIA
aspen2 said:
Funny you would make that distinction after you criticised a Catholic member for not including enough scripture in his posts - now you bring up application of scripture? Are you really suggesting that noncatholic believers are better at apply scripture to their daily lives than catholic Christians?
"Catholic christian" that's an oxymoron, isn't. LOL
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
more like a necessary redundancy in order to meet you where you are at spiritually, JB.

You're welcome

PS. Nice example of conservative scare tactics in your propaganda piece on the gay agenda - fire and brimstone isn't just for Sunday sermons anymore, i reckon.
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

Many are called but few are chosen.
Feb 23, 2013
860
24
18
AUSTRALIA
aspen2 said:
more like a necessary redundancy in order to meet you where you are at spiritually, JB.

You're welcome

PS. Nice example of conservative scare tactics in your propaganda piece on the gay agenda - fire and brimstone isn't just for Sunday sermons anymore, i reckon.
We can't or wont be all as GAY as you aspen. B)
 

KingJ

New Member
Mar 18, 2011
1,568
45
0
41
South Africa
JB_Reformed Baptist said:
We can't or wont be all as GAY as you aspen. B)
That actually makes me think. If we buy blood diamonds we have blood on our hands. If we blur the truth and don't properly help our brothers out of GLBT'ism we are giving our approval of this extreme sin and are publicly declaring to all that we have their blood on our hands.

If I was gay and took advice from some members here. Sure they would not be to blame for me landing up in hell. But I will most certainly hold a grudge and WOULD be shocked if they got to heaven and not me!
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hi SIM,

This is an outrageous statement!!!!

You know, I'm almost convinced God's plan was to put pedophiles in clergy just so Catholics can discern which alleged Christians are actually Christians.
God did not 'put pedophiles in clergy' EVER.

Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

This can be changed only by God's plan of salvation being accepted by man, co-operating with God through believing into HIs Son Jesus Christ, and repentance and receiving the Holy Spirit so as to walk in Him, (not given to fleshly lusts).

Jesus said,
'Suffer the little children to come unto Me', because He had a clear understanding of what children go through at the 'hands' of adults.


Furthermore, you said in a subsequent post on p51, (of Protestantism) -

Your gospel is anything but benevolent.
But at least it gets the job done, and doesn't prevent people from coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

The soft gospel of the RCC doesn't save anyone if it denies the meanings of Christ's death on the cross and fails to publish them accurately.

Hi KC,

... others would be quite justified in stating that this is circular reasoning and cannot be taken as fact. In other words, what you are saying is that the Bible ITSELF is saying that the Bible is the word of God. You are stating as fact something that cannot be proven. And, proof of something is required by many before it can be validated and therefore believed. Understand the dilemma?
The only dilemma rests with the humans. You are being asked to approach God believing that He is, and prove for yourself that the Bible is used by Him to speak profound, life-changing 'words' into the heart of the men and women who are willing to be exercised thereby. I don't just mean the 'exercise' of reading scripture with an expectation that God will speak through it, but with a willingness to have one's spirit quickened, one's soul washed by His word and one's mind introduced to an entirely different realm of understanding, which He opens only to those who seek Him thus.

Hi aspen,

not to mention the other elephant in the room.....the bible never claims to be the word of God. Jesus is called the Word of God.
I like this comment! But, just because the Bible doesn't explicitly state 'I am the word of God', it surely contains enough reports of what God said for them to mount up and up into the best collection of 'the words of God' that is contained between the two covers of one book.

To all,

This is one line from the long post by JB above - from the article exposing the gay agenda. We should not be surprised by either it, or this...
Quote
Not even churches are safe.
The spirits which drive homosexual urges are extremely comfortable in situations where worship is taking place. If you think about this, it is a 'moment' when people's focus is to be elsewhere than natural affections and affiliations. People's spirits and souls are opened up (to God) in a particular way.

But, the openness, if it is genuine but not protected by the presence of the Holy Spirit, also, potentially, opens a door to other spirits. Not the person who has opened themselves to receive from the Lord is at fault here, but the predator who seeks to draw away souls away from that God-ward purpose, to a base purpose which is focused on flesh and self and sin. Read this. Look at the boldness of the king of Sodom in the place of worship:

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he wasthe priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. 21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons [Heb = souls], and take the goods to thyself. 22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:


Can you see that?


The king of Sodom (who we thought had died a few verses earlier) has recovered himself to a place of attack again, and is not abaft to turn up right in the middle of Abram's time of worship and devotion to God, to try and strike a sick business deal - swop people for things.

It's an identical agenda as our Lord spoke against in His message to the church at Laodicea in Revelation 3:14 on, although the focus there is idolatry of materialism rather than the sexual perversions which can be an accompanying factor.

2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


John in his first epistle is very clear that 'darkness' is one of the factors which blinds a person. So does looking at idols. John 3:19, 20
 

JackSafari

New Member
Mar 5, 2013
146
1
0
JB_Reformed Baptist said:
Unmasking the "gay" agenda

That is to say, when it comes to sex, there is never right or wrong. All sexual appetites are "equal." If it feels good, do it.
While nearly all of that post is anti-gay paranoia pretty much on par with other types of fringe scare tactics, this statement is just an example of misleading info. This implies homsexuals endores sex crimes of all kinds, which of course normal people understand not to be true and absurd. The rest of the post was equally so, and nearly everyone within the main stream would not be swayed by it.

For the most part this kind of fringe thinking is harmless, and even counter productive to their hope to pass anti-gay laws. When fringe individuals are the leaders of any effort to control minority groups, such fringe groups isolate themselves further from the main stream who aren't looking to harm others who are minding their own business, are friends & family, have normal lives, pay taxes, etc, etc. When those on the fringe yell "The homos are coming, the homos are coming, we need to pass laws to to protect ourselves from the homos", it only ensures that what they want will never happen. They are just perceived as being far too extreme to take seriously.
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hi Jack,

You are missing the point. Sexual orientation is a choice upon which God has an opinion. He has given us 'Maker's Instructions' and expects them to be abided by. There will be repercussions for those who don't, because Jesus Christ has made a way to escape bondage to the lusts of the world.

There was a simple solution in the OT: they were destroyed.

No-one expected them to be 'saved' under the law. Quite the opposite was true.

But since the law became embodied in the life of Jesus Christ made available to us through the Holy Spirit, there is a way to escape destruction.

Really, a Christian message board is not the place to show your sympathy for worldly values, unless you want to mark yourself out as one who does not embrace the values of the Godhead, which - if this is true of you - raises other questions about your focus.


Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knows your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

Many are called but few are chosen.
Feb 23, 2013
860
24
18
AUSTRALIA
JackSafari said:
While nearly all of that post is anti-gay paranoia pretty much on par with other types of fringe scare tactics, this statement is just an example of misleading info. This implies homsexuals endores sex crimes of all kinds, which of course normal people understand not to be true and absurd. The rest of the post was equally so, and nearly everyone within the main stream would not be swayed by it.

For the most part this kind of fringe thinking is harmless, and even counter productive to their hope to pass anti-gay laws. When fringe individuals are the leaders of any effort to control minority groups, such fringe groups isolate themselves further from the main stream who aren't looking to harm others who are minding their own business, are friends & family, have normal lives, pay taxes, etc, etc. When those on the fringe yell "The homos are coming, the homos are coming, we need to pass laws to to protect ourselves from the homos", it only ensures that what they want will never happen. They are just perceived as being far too extreme to take seriously.

How silly to think that God changes his mind when it comes to sin let alone an abomination. It cost the son of God his life, no less to redeem a people unto himself. Do you honestly think God is going to wink at this abomination. What next will be on the lips of the "enlightened ones" who proclaim God made me like this and God is love as to suggest he has a depraved mind.

You know we are told to bring EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE to the obedience of Christ. Liberal so-called Christians are a cancer to the body of Christ. If you don't stand for him you are certainly against him.

Any so-called Christian who down plays sin let alone an abomination, doesn't know Christ or is a babe. Any who make an excuse for sin are in the same boat, and any who call evil good and good evil are themselves children of the damned.

And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it. And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah.

And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah.
And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin. And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging.

And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites. And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?

And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house. Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.

And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.

So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.
Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. Judges 19: 16-24






But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.


And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds. Judges 19: 25-30
 

SilenceInMotion

New Member
Dec 10, 2012
304
10
0
36
Virginia, USA
dragonfly said:
But at least it gets the job done, and doesn't prevent people from coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

The soft gospel of the RCC doesn't save anyone if it denies the meanings of Christ's death on the cross and fails to publish them accurately.
The meaning of Christ's death was to be an atonement, with the satisfactory element being that you must obey the New Covenant. You Protestants turn that into a ridiculous 'faith without works' thing so to make it easier on yourself and to doom everyone else.

It's not sound doctrine, it's nonsense. The founders simply wanted to deny the Church. It is not proper Christianity, it is a 16th century heresy that collapses on itself.

400 million Protestants for 400 years <> 1.8 billion Catholic Christians for 2000 years

I'm pretty sure, as is everybody else who isn't Protestant, that Catholic doctrine is sound. You all just labor under the falsehoods of a heretic.
 

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
351
5
18
Townsville, QLD. Australia
dragonfly said:
Hi Jack,

You are missing the point. Sexual orientation is a choice upon which God has an opinion. He has given us 'Maker's Instructions' and expects them to be abided by. There will be repercussions for those who don't, because Jesus Christ has made a way to escape bondage to the lusts of the world.
No, he (Jack) is not missing the point since he was addressing quite accurately that nonsensical piece of propaganda.

You state quite unequivocally that homosexual orientation is a choice. I state just as unequivocally that homosexual orientation is not a choice. So, who is correct? I also state that you nor anyone else knows the opinion of God. As for your 'Maker's instructions' statement that He/God expects humans to abide by ...that is just opinionated rhetoric. Human beings are not robots that are designed and programmed to perform specific commands ...often commands that differ from Christian to Christian, by the way. While I am certainly not implying that homosexuality is an aberration, you might just as well say that those born blind, deaf, mute, deformed, crippled, etc. are not 'abiding by the Master's instructions'. In bygone days - indeed, similarly so with SOME Christians today - belief was that sickness and infirmities were the result of 'sin' in that person's life. "Your sins are forgiven you," was said by Jesus to a crippled person just healed by Jesus. So, therefore, in the twisted minds of some, sickness and infirmities are equivalent to sin. You too?

dragonfly said:
There was a simple solution in the OT: they were destroyed.
And it sits okay with you that people are destroyed because it's God that is doing the destroying?

dragonfly said:
No-one expected them to be 'saved' under the law. Quite the opposite was true.

But since the law became embodied in the life of Jesus Christ made available to us through the Holy Spirit, there is a way to escape destruction.
And destroying those who were/are not obedient to 'the Master's instructions' is the best 'solution' that God could come up with? Again - this sits okay with you because it's God that is doing the destroying? What if those that are on the receiving end are your parents, kids, family, friends ...? Yes, I know the answer ...it's fine with you because YOU have made it. What a cruel and selfish belief this is . . .

dragonfly said:
Really, a Christian message board is not the place to show your sympathy for worldly values, unless you want to mark yourself out as one who does not embrace the values of the Godhead, which - if this is true of you - raises other questions about your focus.


Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knows your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
The topic is homosexuality and not worldly values or embracing the values of the Godhead. Neither has anything to do with biology but religion.


JB_Reformed Baptist said:
How silly to think that God changes his mind when it comes to sin let alone an abomination. It cost the son of God his life, no less to redeem a people unto himself. Do you honestly think God is going to wink at this abomination. What next will be on the lips of the "enlightened ones" who proclaim God made me like this and God is love as to suggest he has a depraved mind.
This entire post reeks with ignorance. I feel rather silly even bothering to respond to it as the aspects surrounding the term 'abomination' have been addressed SO many times that we should no longer be having such a discussion about them. To the uninitiated, however, there are MANY 'abominations' in the Old Testament that range from the rather ridiculous to the sublime. Most of us on a daily basis commit 'abominations' without even thinking about it. While there are MANY 'abominations' in the Bible just let me stick with an oldie but a goodie that we can relate to ..the eating of certain seafood. Yep, the eating of shellfish IS an abomination to God! Does this stop Christians from eating shellfish? Maybe if you are a Seventh-day Adventist you may adhere to the command about not partaking in 'unclean food' but the huge majority of Christians would not even know that eating shellfish IS an abomination. And, even if they did they would not change their love for seafood because they would pass off this 'abomination' as being irrelevant for we of today. IN FACT, the ONLY 'abomination' that the huge majority of Christians have heard of and believe is relevant for today (and most would not even know where to locate it in their Bible) is the 'man lying' text in ...um, is it in Deuteronomy? Judges? Acts? Genesis? ...um, well, I'm pretty sure that it's somewhere in the Bible . . . :rolleyes:

Silly? Of course it is. We really DO need to grow up in regard to how we interpret the Bible. It (the Bible) is NOT and NEVER WAS intended to be used as a tool to condemn others! Beware of those who use it solely for that purpose.

JB_Reformed Baptist said:
You know we are told to bring EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE to the obedience of Christ. Liberal so-called Christians are a cancer to the body of Christ. If you don't stand for him you are certainly against him.

Any so-called Christian who down plays sin let alone an abomination, doesn't know Christ or is a babe. Any who make an excuse for sin are in the same boat, and any who call evil good and good evil are themselves children of the damned.
So, let it be known that any so-called Christian who participates in the eating of 'unclean' seafood, thereby downplaying sin let alone an abomination, doesn't know Christ or is a babe. By the way, do Gerber include seafood in their baby-food range?

JB_Reformed Baptist said:
And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it. And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah.

And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah.
And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin. And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging.

And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites. And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?

And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house. Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.

And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.

So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.
Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. Judges 19: 16-24






But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.


And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds. Judges 19: 25-30
Would someone, please, offer a clue as to what the above has to do with the topic of homosexuality?
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

Many are called but few are chosen.
Feb 23, 2013
860
24
18
AUSTRALIA
KCKID said:
No, he (Jack) is not missing the point since he was addressing quite accurately that nonsensical piece of propaganda.

You state quite unequivocally that homosexual orientation is a choice. I state just as unequivocally that homosexual orientation is not a choice. So, who is correct? I also state that you nor anyone else knows the opinion of God. As for your 'Maker's instructions' statement that He/God expects humans to abide by ...that is just opinionated rhetoric. Human beings are not robots that are designed and programmed to perform specific commands ...often commands that differ from Christian to Christian, by the way. While I am certainly not implying that homosexuality is an aberration, you might just as well say that those born blind, deaf, mute, deformed, crippled, etc. are not 'abiding by the Master's instructions'. In bygone days - indeed, similarly so with SOME Christians today - belief was that sickness and infirmities were the result of 'sin' in that person's life. "Your sins are forgiven you," was said by Jesus to a crippled person just healed by Jesus. So, therefore, in the twisted minds of some, sickness and infirmities are equivalent to sin. You too?


And it sits okay with you that people are destroyed because it's God that is doing the destroying?


And destroying those who were/are not obedient to 'the Master's instructions' is the best 'solution' that God could come up with? Again - this sits okay with you because it's God that is doing the destroying? What if those that are on the receiving end are your parents, kids, family, friends ...? Yes, I know the answer ...it's fine with you because YOU have made it. What a cruel and selfish belief this is . . .


The topic is homosexuality and not worldly values or embracing the values of the Godhead. Neither has anything to do with biology but religion.



This entire post reeks with ignorance. I feel rather silly even bothering to respond to it as the aspects surrounding the term 'abomination' have been addressed SO many times that we should no longer be having such a discussion about them. To the uninitiated, however, there are MANY 'abominations' in the Old Testament that range from the rather ridiculous to the sublime. Most of us on a daily basis commit 'abominations' without even thinking about it. While there are MANY 'abominations' in the Bible just let me stick with an oldie but a goodie that we can relate to ..the eating of certain seafood. Yep, the eating of shellfish IS an abomination to God! Does this stop Christians from eating shellfish? Maybe if you are a Seventh-day Adventist you may adhere to the command about not partaking in 'unclean food' but the huge majority of Christians would not even know that eating shellfish IS an abomination. And, even if they did they would not change their love for seafood because they would pass off this 'abomination' as being irrelevant for we of today. IN FACT, the ONLY 'abomination' that the huge majority of Christians have heard of and believe is relevant for today (and most would not even know where to locate it in their Bible) is the 'man lying' text in ...um, is it in Deuteronomy? Judges? Acts? Genesis? ...um, well, I'm pretty sure that it's somewhere in the Bible . . . :rolleyes:

Silly? Of course it is. We really DO need to grow up in regard to how we interpret the Bible. It (the Bible) is NOT and NEVER WAS intended to be used as a tool to condemn others! Beware of those who use it solely for that purpose.


So, let it be known that any so-called Christian who participates in the eating of 'unclean' seafood, thereby downplaying sin let alone an abomination, doesn't know Christ or is a babe. By the way, do Gerber include seafood in their baby-food range?


Would someone, please, offer a clue as to what the above has to do with the topic of homosexuality?
Kid, are you an ex SDA and practicing homosexual or are considering it? I hear there's a trend developing and that an exodus has begun and quite a few have begun to stray of the reservation to embrace sodomy.


To answer your question, Kid:

They designed in the most filthy and abominable manner (not to be thought of without horror and detestation) to abuse the Levite, whom perhaps they had observed to be young and comely: Bring him forth that we may know him. We should certainly have concluded they meant only to enquire whence he came, and to know his character, but that the good man of the house, who understood their meaning too well, by his answer lets us know that they designed the gratification of that most unnatural and worse than brutish lust which was expressly forbidden by the law of Moses, and called an abomination, Lev_18:22. Those that are guilty of it are ranked in the New Testament among the worst and vilest of sinners (1Ti_1:10), and such as shall not inherit the kingdom of God, 1Co_6:9. Now, (1.) This was the sin of Sodom, and is thence called Sodomy. The Dead Sea, which was the standing monument of God's vengeance upon Sodom, for its filthiness, was one of the boundaries of Canaan, and lay not many miles off from Gibeah. We may suppose the men of Gibeah had seen it many a time, and yet would not take warning by it, but did worse than Sodom (Eze_16:48), and sinned just after the similitude of their transgression. MH
 

SilenceInMotion

New Member
Dec 10, 2012
304
10
0
36
Virginia, USA
So, let it be known that any so-called Christian who participates in the eating of 'unclean' seafood, thereby downplaying sin let alone an abomination, doesn't know Christ or is a babe. By the way, do Gerber include seafood in their baby-food range?
Homosexuality is against the New Covenant, seafood is not.

I find it amazing that people who call themselves Christians do not even know their own religion. If I had a nickel for everytime somebody has brung that up to justify homosexuality, or pretty much anything that matter, I'd be a trillionaire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingJ

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
351
5
18
Townsville, QLD. Australia
SilenceInMotion said:
Homosexuality is against the New Covenant, seafood is not.
Ah yes ...the NEW covenant, otherwise know as the 'pick and choose' covenant! This is the one where God changed His mind about what WERE abominations to Him but were NOW no longer abominations to Him. It would appear that God had a change of heart, even though we are told INCESSANTLY by Christians that God NEVER changes ...! Profaning the Sabbath was punishable by death. We know of at least one instance where God ordered Moses to kill a man in the tribe for profaning the Sabbath ...this poor guy was merely collecting wood for a fire on the 7th-day of the week. And, he was ordered to be killed by God for doing so. But, today it's quite okay to profane the Sabbath which, as said, at one time held the penalty of death. In fact, most Christians break the 4th-Commandment of the Big Ten EVERY week! Under the Old covenant there would be mass executions every Sunday! You see, we're now under the NEW covenant. Whoops ...sorry, 'firewood man' ...you were hapless enough to have been born under the wrong covenant! So, all of the commands and 'abominations' of Leviticus, Deuteronomy, etc. have now been waived by God who Christians insist NEVER changes. The ONE exception, however, is the Leviticus text that references 'man lying with man'. That one alone remains 'in force' because, for some reason, it was not waived along with the rest. Go figure!

Yes, I'll be told that I'm an ignorant jackass and that I need to study the scriptures more, yada, yada, yada . . .

SilenceInMotion said:
I find it amazing that people who call themselves Christians do not even know their own religion. If I had a nickel for everytime somebody has brung that up to justify homosexuality, or pretty much anything that matter, I'd be a trillionaire.
You do know that "I" know we Gentiles are under a different covenant to the one in the Old Testament, don't you, SIM? And THAT is and always has been my point! Leviticus, et al, and all of their stupid 'abominations' are GONE! As for reference in the New Testament to homosexual sex, ALL of the references pertain NOT to the sexual act itself but specifically to the fact that these sex acts were being performed in a public setting by those who were worshipping Gods such as Cybele. The pagans were bringing these obscene practices into the early Christian Church. As I've mentioned before, check out the Internet in regard to ancient worship practices and you will see why Paul, Jude and company had their tights in such a twist. The fact is, SIM that I DO know my own religion and it bothers me what a lot of Christians are doing with it!


JB_Reformed Baptist said:
Kid, are you an ex SDA and practicing homosexual or are considering it? I hear there's a trend developing and that an exodus has begun and quite a few have begun to stray of the reservation to embrace sodomy.
I've already mentioned several times that I am (as of 4/5 years ago) a non-practicing (whatever that means) SDA. That said, SDA's didn't ask people to 'remember' the Sabbath ...God did! No to practicing homosexual and no to my considering it. Now, having answered your question ...I'll tell you to mind your own business! As for the 'trend' you speak of, it sounds like a load of JB_Reformed Baptist bull to me and that's how I'll regard it.

JB_Reformed Baptist said:
To answer your question, Kid:

They designed in the most filthy and abominable manner (not to be thought of without horror and detestation) to abuse the Levite, whom perhaps they had observed to be young and comely: Bring him forth that we may know him. We should certainly have concluded they meant only to enquire whence he came, and to know his character, but that the good man of the house, who understood their meaning too well, by his answer lets us know that they designed the gratification of that most unnatural and worse than brutish lust which was expressly forbidden by the law of Moses, and called an abomination, Lev_18:22. Those that are guilty of it are ranked in the New Testament among the worst and vilest of sinners (1Ti_1:10), and such as shall not inherit the kingdom of God, 1Co_6:9. Now, (1.) This was the sin of Sodom, and is thence called Sodomy. The Dead Sea, which was the standing monument of God's vengeance upon Sodom, for its filthiness, was one of the boundaries of Canaan, and lay not many miles off from Gibeah. We may suppose the men of Gibeah had seen it many a time, and yet would not take warning by it, but did worse than Sodom (Eze_16:48), and sinned just after the similitude of their transgression. MH
And THIS is a description of todays' homosexual? Ignorance with a capitol "I", is my response. You could use the above - wherever you got that information from - in exactly the same way if applied to heterosexuality. This is all a ruse as are your previous propaganda attempts. This, JB, is an example of what hatred can do to someone. And, you seem to be filled with it! By the way, do yourself a favor and study the (probable) fable of Sodom and Gomorrah. Actually, you don't even have to work hard. You will find no reference to homosexuality AT ALL with regard to why God drew His plans to destroy the twin cities. Repeat ...NO REFERENCE TO HOMOSEXUALITY AT ALL! Again, this is all a ploy to demonize gay people by employing deception as a weapon. Bad stuff!
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hi KC,

I'm not going to attempt to answer your many points to myself and other posters, as time is not on my side, so I just want to go back to the principle of 'Maker's Instructions' - which you seem to find irrelevant or irksome - because it is an extremely basic building block of the whole of creation. We see the same principle outworked in every worthwhile man-made object, which arises from the creative instinct God implanted in humans who are made in His image.

In Revelation we hear the song, 'For Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are created'. The whole of creation exists upon this principle. Analysed in other terms, we might say: God's pleasure, God's purpose, God's wisdom, God's intention and God's desire.

Put very simply, God owned creation - the work of His own hands - He gave the world to man with certain instructions; man threw his authority away by submitting to a being other than God, and God bought creation back with His own blood.

God is twice over the rightful owner. He is entitled to 'call all the shots' because of His sacrifice, and He will be entitled to judge mankind in every generation in every corner of the world, because He knows what we are about to think before we think it; and he knows whether our heart's desire is to please Him, and to pass the Matthew 7:21 test.

I recommend you attempt to orientate your thinking to accommodate the 'big picture' from His point of view and His rules of engagement, before resting your hope in the powers of your intellect, media hype, and humanism. In the end, God is going to use His legitimate powers to bring all things under His control, and He invites us to consent to His Kingship.

Do you? Or do you just pay lip service to it?
 

SilenceInMotion

New Member
Dec 10, 2012
304
10
0
36
Virginia, USA
If homosexuality wasn't a sin, it wouldn't have been unanimously considered such by both Jews and Christians for thousands of years all the way until the last decade, when all of a sudden society is all about accepting homosexuals.

There is no coincidence there AT ALL. An alleged 'truth' doesn't just pop up at the most inconvenient time in human history. Sorry, but homosexual supporters lose sorely on this and show where their true views are tapped from, which is anything but an honest observation of God's will and natural law both in the Bible and on the person themselves. That's right- name a part of your body which is applicable for homosexual acts. God didn't even make the body able to perform homosexual acts in any kosher manner. It is a plague in a society with little fear of God who can't even treat their own bodies as the temples God wills. People need to wake up and smell the coffee, or find a relgion applicable to what you think is natural.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingJ

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
why don't you substitute 'slavery' for 'homosexuality' in your last post, SIM. Just kinda 'pops up out of nowhere', huh?
 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
Sorry, but the slavery analogy doesn't work, Aspen.

If it did, then you would be telling us we need to love people who practice slavery and quit criticizing them for their lifestyle.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
hmm.....how clever of you to ignore my point completely, while introduce a weak attempt at ridicule without regard for reason.......I see you are in regular form tonight, Foreigner.

At least you did acknowledge that we are called to love all people.
 

KCKID

Member
Feb 14, 2013
351
5
18
Townsville, QLD. Australia
dragonfly said:
Hi KC,

I'm not going to attempt to answer your many points to myself and other posters, as time is not on my side, so I just want to go back to the principle of 'Maker's Instructions' - which you seem to find irrelevant or irksome - because it is an extremely basic building block of the whole of creation. We see the same principle outworked in every worthwhile man-made object, which arises from the creative instinct God implanted in humans who are made in His image.
I don't know that anyone is arguing against the male/female/(pro)creation principle of 'the Maker's Instructions'. Of course procreation requires the involvement of both genders. But, what you and so many others also appear to be implying is that procreation is ALL that sexual intercourse was intended for. And, perhaps it was. I don't see any references or 'instructions' from God in the scriptures encouraging couples to have sexual intercourse for the sheer pleasure of it. Obviously, sex was made to be a pleasurable experience, otherwise it's doubtful that most would attempt to 'go forth and multiply' if it were a boring chore. But, again, God appears to have instructed the genders to participate in sex SOLELY for procreational purposes. So, is 'sex for pleasure' against God's purpose for sex? Are birth control and condoms against God's purpose for sex? I would assume that both ARE widely used among the Christian community. Where do we draw the line on what is kosher or not kosher when it comes to sex according to 'the Maker's instructions'? Obviously, whether rightly or wrongly, people have recreational sex on a regular basis. There is no 'procreation' in mind or intended. Clearly, it would seem, this is against 'the Maker's original instructions'. With that in mind, why then is it essential that 'non-productive' sex is only allowable for heterosexuals when the 'pleasure' aspect is exactly the same for both heterosexuals and homosexuals? Both claim that their intimacy equals 'love'. Furthermore, if sex=pleasure for homosexuals is condemned because it is non-productive, would not sex=pleasure for heterosexuals that is non-productive ALSO be condemned?

I don't know how the topic of homosexuality can be dimissed simply with the wave of the Bible when these other discrepencies about 'sex' remain unanswered.


dragonfly said:
In Revelation we hear the song, 'For Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are created'. The whole of creation exists upon this principle. Analysed in other terms, we might say: God's pleasure, God's purpose, God's wisdom, God's intention and God's desire.

Put very simply, God owned creation - the work of His own hands - He gave the world to man with certain instructions; man threw his authority away by submitting to a being other than God, and God bought creation back with His own blood.

God is twice over the rightful owner. He is entitled to 'call all the shots' because of His sacrifice, and He will be entitled to judge mankind in every generation in every corner of the world, because He knows what we are about to think before we think it; and he knows whether our heart's desire is to please Him, and to pass the Matthew 7:21 test.

I recommend you attempt to orientate your thinking to accommodate the 'big picture' from His point of view and His rules of engagement, before resting your hope in the powers of your intellect, media hype, and humanism. In the end, God is going to use His legitimate powers to bring all things under His control, and He invites us to consent to His Kingship.

Do you? Or do you just pay lip service to it?
Unfortunately, none of your above response addresses MY above questions.

SilenceInMotion said:
If homosexuality wasn't a sin, it wouldn't have been unanimously considered such by both Jews and Christians for thousands of years all the way until the last decade, when all of a sudden society is all about accepting homosexuals.
It's only in relatively recent times that homosexuals have dared to 'come out' in such vast numbers. Such is the cruelty of religiosity that has also influenced - if only on a sublime level - the thinking of nonChristians. As for your use of that 'way over-used' Christian word 'sin', once again for good measure ...we ALL sin because human beings are designed to sin. Those that DON'T sin are perfect ...i.e. Jesus. I'm continually ragged about my alleged lack of Christian savvy by those who have not yet come to realize this.

As for your 'if homosexuality wasn't a sin' we again come back to human beings. Someone or several someones interpreted scripture in a specific way which was in turn fed to huge amounts of 'sponges' (which we all are to one degree or another) who took on board the findings of the original religionists. This is how beliefs and opinions are formed. Few of us have opinions and beliefs that have not first been formulated by someone else. The popular media demonstrates this kind of thing all the time and basically controls the minds of an alarming number of gullible people. Commercials would be ineffective if people were not known to be sponges who are influenced by the beliefs and opinions of others. So, homosexuality is a sin ...we've heard that from day one from our religious superiors so therefore it must be so. Sadly, religion is a major form of mind control and this has nothing to do with God or Jesus but HUMAN BEINGS!

I would almost guarantee (100% guarantees on this topic would be impossible) that, if it were possible for one to clear their mind of what has already taken root there about homosexuality, if one were to REALLY study the so-called 'clout scriptures' with an open mind, they would see that other just as valid - perhaps more so - interpretations of those scriptures are available. And, the truth is the truth REGARDLESS of the sexual orientation of those who might be presenting the truth. That said, many non-homosexual affiliated Bible scholars have determined that these scriptures have been misinterpreted from the beginning. The scriptures should not be used in a manner to demean anyone. They should be used to present the truth. This should stand to reason.

The sad truth is that human beings are also proud and obstinate. Christians, in particular, require 'evil' to attack and they will dig in their heels if something that they consider evil and HAVE considered evil forever is found not to be. One's pious standing is reliant on someone elses perceived 'sins'. Most of us have grown up with the concept of 'goodies and baddies' in movies. Many of us will probably remember how thrilled we were as we sat in the darkened movie theater and heard the bugle cry of the U.S. Cavalry (the goodies) who arrived just in the nick of time to rescue the early settlers from the war-whooping indians (the baddies) who had surrounded their encircled wagons. Similarly so with Christianity. We (the Christians) are the goodies and specially selected others (in this case homosexuals) are the baddies. We can even use the encircled wagon analogy to pretty good effect. We Christians, the goodies, have circled our wagons and are being threatened by the homosexuals, the baddies, who have surrounded us and desire to destroy us. However, we have an effective weapon at our disposal ...we'll shoot condemning scriptures at them . . .

SilenceInMotion said:
There is no coincidence there AT ALL. An alleged 'truth' doesn't just pop up at the most inconvenient time in human history. Sorry, but homosexual supporters lose sorely on this and show where their true views are tapped from, which is anything but an honest observation of God's will and natural law both in the Bible and on the person themselves. That's right- name a part of your body which is applicable for homosexual acts. God didn't even make the body able to perform homosexual acts in any kosher manner. It is a plague in a society with little fear of God who can't even treat their own bodies as the temples God wills. People need to wake up and smell the coffee, or find a relgion applicable to what you think is natural.
It's my opinion that you definitely need to do some rethinking on this topic, SIM. It's unlikely to happen, unfortunately, since - as mentioned above - fear and hatred toward homosexuals within the Christian community is too deeply rooted. Perhaps the upcoming next generation will better handle this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.