Homosexuality

[Axehead]

The Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert - by Dr. Rosaria Butterfield

Rosaria Butterfield was a tenured professor at Syracuse University, until God used her desire to write a book on the religious right, and the friendship of a biblically orthodox pastor, to draw her to Christ. She became a voracious Bible reader, gradually saw that her new beliefs required her to upend her former life, and has now described what happened in The Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert. I interviewed her on Jan. 11, 2013 in front of students at Patrick Henry College. By Feb. 20, about 30,000 people had viewed the interview on YouTube. (Marvin Olasky)

From lesbianism to the parking lot to church: An interview with the author

A very heartwarming story and some great wisdom from a former member of the LGBT community to the Christian community.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kQ_YI6INTQU

 

[KingJ]

Thanks Axehead, nice link.

 

[JackSafari]

Hi Jack,

You are missing the point. Sexual orientation is a choice upon which God has an opinion. He has given us 'Maker's Instructions' and expects them to be abided by. There will be repercussions for those who don't, because Jesus Christ has made a way to escape bondage to the lusts of the world..
There is no doubt in my mind, and in the mind of the majority of people, that sexual orientation is not a choice or a sin, just like having brown eyes is not a choice, nor is being left handed, or being born without the ability to hear or see. All of these things can not be changed. So any rational person will not judge a others based on inherent qualities. However, history does include many injustices where a minority has been persecuted for things about themselves they can not change.

I fear nothing in my support of those who are of homosexual orientation, because I do not even for a moment believe God rejects anyone, for any reason, let alone for something as trivial as sexual orientation. It would be no different than only accepting blue eye people, and rejecting everyone else saying "In the bible it stated, only people with blue eyes are worthy"

And as time passes, more and more Christians stop believing homosexuality is a sin, just like how we no longer use the bible to justify many past injustices going back centuries; We simply acknowledge it as being ignorance of the past. If historically people did not question their beliefs and we'd still believe that mentally ill people are posed by the devil, and the crippled are being punished by God for (unknown) sins, Slavery is acceptable as well as having sex with slaves, all which at one time in the past were justified by pointing to the bible. Such things are now 100% rejected, even though there are references in the bible that clearly state those acts are acceptable.

The bible is a great book, that is clearly helpful to millions upon millions. This is a very good thing. The point I am making, along with others, is that has been, and continues to be, misused to persecute a minority of people and label them as evil and\or immoral. It is a good thing to challenge persecution in all forms, not allow The Bible to be used to condemn people for things they can not change about themselves.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

why don't you substitute 'slavery' for 'homosexuality' in your last post, SIM. Just kinda 'pops up out of nowhere', huh?

Well Protestants are guilty of slavery as well. Maybe I could include everything.. throw in banishment as well as witch trials. The possibilities are endless, I could literally blame Protestantism unitl it's blue in it's face.

Sort of brings the irony of all the cra[ they bring against the Church- they even believe the non wicked go to Hell. What's not to damn, really? They want to continually talk crap, then crap they shall get.

 

[KingJ]

1 I fear nothing in my support of those who are of homosexual orientation, because 2 I do not even for a moment believe God rejects anyone, for any reason, let alone for something as trivial as sexual orientation. 3 It would be no different than only accepting blue eye people, and rejecting everyone else saying "In the bible it stated, only people with blue eyes are worthy"

4 And as time passes, more and more Christians stop believing homosexuality is a sin, just like how we no longer use the 5 bible to justify many past injustices going back centuries; We simply acknowledge it as being ignorance of the past. If historically people did not question their beliefs and we'd still believe that mentally ill people are posed by the devil, and the crippled are being punished by God for (unknown) sins, Slavery is acceptable as well as having sex with slaves, all which at one time in the past were justified by pointing to the bible. Such things are now 100% rejected, 6 even though there are references in the bible that clearly state those acts are acceptable.

The bible is a great book, that is clearly helpful to millions upon millions. This is a very good thing. The point I am making, along with others, is that has been, and continues to be, misused to persecute a minority of people and label them as evil and\or immoral. It is a good thing to challenge persecution in all forms, not allow 7 The Bible to be used to condemn people for things they can not change about themselves.

ROFLMAO Are you for real?

1 You are then a fool. God considered it worthy of capital punishment.
2 God rejects nobody sure! But we reject Him. Is sexual orientation trivial? Our body is the temple of God, you fool. You reason like the devil.
3 How old are you? You would see a guy divorcing his wife for adultery on the same scale as another divorcing his wife for changing her hair colour?
4 Sorry bud, the Bible doesn't change. God doesn't change.
5 Care to mention some. You are merely failing at reading and context.
6 You confuse mentioning slavery with supporting slavery. Scripture clearly says God is impartial / no respecter of persons.
7 Homosexuality is something people can't change? You are then very naive and ignorant. A guy who has working male parts and wants to be a girl needs a sex CHANGE to be a girl. A guy who wants to be with another guy needs to go against the natural cause for which his body was created....which shows everyone he is merely a mental case. God can and does help mental cases! I was living in sexual sin before I got converted. It is extreme lust of the flesh, nothing else! I knew it was dirty and bad just never had the strength to stop. But when I got saved and fell in love with Jesus, different story.

You are either not saved or the worst kind of Christian on the planet. Blurring the bible and running it down like the devil.

 

[aspen]

SIM I didn't bring up the topic of slavery to blame any group for it. I was trying to point out that your reasoning for condeming homosexuality (it has to be a sin because has always been a sin) does not work because you cannot apply the same reasoning to slavery (it has not always been thought of as sinful).

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

ROFLMAO Are you for real?

1 You are then a fool. God considered it worthy of capital punishment.
2 God rejects nobody sure! But we reject Him. Is sexual orientation trivial? Our body is the temple of God, you fool. You reason like the devil.
3 How old are you? You would see a guy divorcing his wife for adultery on the same scale as another divorcing his wife for changing her hair colour?
4 Sorry bud, the Bible doesn't change. God doesn't change.
5 Care to mention some. You are merely failing at reading and context.
6 You confuse mentioning slavery with supporting slavery. Scripture clearly says God is impartial / no respecter of persons.
7 Homosexuality is something people can't change? You are then very naive and ignorant. A guy who has working male parts and wants to be a girl needs a sex CHANGE to be a girl. A guy who wants to be with another guy needs to go against the natural cause for which his body was created....which shows everyone he is merely a mental case. God can and does help mental cases! I was living in sexual sin before I got converted. It is extreme lust of the flesh, nothing else! I knew it was dirty and bad just never had the strength to stop. But when I got saved and fell in love with Jesus, different story.

You are either not saved or the worst kind of Christian on the planet. Blurring the bible and running it down like the devil.

As the scriptures say the "carnal minded" cannot understand the things of GOD for they're spiritually discerned. :mellow:

 

[KingJ]

If homosexuality wasn't a sin, it wouldn't have been unanimously considered such by both Jews and Christians for thousands of years all the way until the last decade, when all of a sudden society is all about accepting homosexuals.

There is no coincidence there AT ALL. An alleged 'truth' doesn't just pop up at the most inconvenient time in human history. Sorry, but homosexual supporters lose sorely on this and show where their true views are tapped from, which is anything but an honest observation of God's will and natural law both in the Bible and on the person themselves. That's right- name a part of your body which is applicable for homosexual acts. God didn't even make the body able to perform homosexual acts in any kosher manner. It is a plague in a society with little fear of God who can't even treat their own bodies as the temples God wills. People need to wake up and smell the coffee, or find a relgion applicable to what you think is natural.

That is actually a very good point SIM. Homosexuals are coming out of the closet in these days because these days are dark and evil.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

If you want to be like God, you follow His natural law. If you are aiming for unconditional election, there's not a lot I can say for you. Otherwise, good luck. You are violating God's natural law in being a homosexual, it is just that simple.

 

[JackSafari]

ROFLMAO Are you for real?

1 You are then a fool. God considered it worthy of capital punishment.
2 God rejects nobody sure! But we reject Him. Is sexual orientation trivial? Our body is the temple of God, you fool. You reason like the devil.
3 How old are you? You would see a guy divorcing his wife for adultery on the same scale as another divorcing his wife for changing her hair colour?
4 Sorry bud, the Bible doesn't change. God doesn't change.
5 Care to mention some. You are merely failing at reading and context.
6 You confuse mentioning slavery with supporting slavery. Scripture clearly says God is impartial / no respecter of persons.
7 Homosexuality is something people can't change? You are then very naive and ignorant. A guy who has working male parts and wants to be a girl needs a sex CHANGE to be a girl. A guy who wants to be with another guy needs to go against the natural cause for which his body was created....which shows everyone he is merely a mental case. God can and does help mental cases! I was living in sexual sin before I got converted. It is extreme lust of the flesh, nothing else! I knew it was dirty and bad just never had the strength to stop. But when I got saved and fell in love with Jesus, different story.

You are either not saved or the worst kind of Christian on the planet. Blurring the bible and running it down like the devil.

I stand behind what I wrote in my previous post.

As you can see for yourself, homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted within Christianity. This a good and healthy thing to happen. Does not matter that you want the forward progress to stop, just like those who believed the bible supported racism as acceptable, and fought to keep their racist beliefs while Christianity embraced equality among all.

This is what I believe what Jesus would say on this subject:

Man: Jesus, I am a homosexual, can you save me by making me a heterosexual?
Jesus: I will not take away a gift that God has given you. Live as you are, for you have already been saved.

 

[Axehead]

So, have any of you taken the time (you have to set aside an hour) to watch the interview of Dr. Rosaria Butterfield. She left her partner (transgender, former Baptist minister), but take note of what she says.

Anyway, you have to budget some time to listen to it. Would like to hear some comments when you get the chance.

 

[KCKID]

So, have any of you taken the time (you have to set aside an hour) to watch the interview of Dr. Rosaria Butterfield. She left her partner (transgender, former Baptist minister), but take note of what she says.

Anyway, you have to budget some time to listen to it. Would like to hear some comments when you get the chance.

I've only just come online after several hours away. Yes, I watched the Dr. Rosaria Butterfield interview in its entirety. It was a good personal testimonial and as long as she is happy being the person she is then good for her. Actually, she didn't make a big deal about the 'sin' part of her lesbian lifestyle. And, I don't recall her stating that what might have been good and proper for her was necessarily good and proper for everyone. I think she was careful (and wise) not to use a condemning tone toward gay and lesbians which says a lot about her. All in all it was very watchable and Ms Butterfield comes across as being an effective witness for Jesus. Thanks for posting the video.

I fear nothing in my support of those who are of homosexual orientation, because I do not even for a moment believe God rejects anyone, for any reason, let alone for something as trivial as sexual orientation. It would be no different than only accepting blue eye people, and rejecting everyone else saying "In the bible it stated, only people with blue eyes are worthy"

And as time passes, more and more Christians stop believing homosexuality is a sin, just like how we no longer use the bible to justify many past injustices going back centuries; We simply acknowledge it as being ignorance of the past. If historically people did not question their beliefs and we'd still believe that mentally ill people are posed by the devil, and the crippled are being punished by God for (unknown) sins, Slavery is acceptable as well as having sex with slaves, all which at one time in the past were justified by pointing to the bible. Such things are now 100% rejected, even though there are references in the bible that clearly state those acts are acceptable.

The bible is a great book, that is clearly helpful to millions upon millions. This is a very good thing. The point I am making, along with others, is that has been, and continues to be, misused to persecute a minority of people and label them as evil and\or immoral. It is a good thing to challenge persecution in all forms, not allow The Bible to be used to condemn people for things they can not change about themselves.

Jack, while it probably goes without saying, I second everything you stated above. I really do believe that, in time, the 'Church/homosexual thing' will be seen to have been one of the most unnecessary 'beat-ups' of all time.

As the scriptures say the "carnal minded" cannot understand the things of GOD for they're spiritually discerned. :mellow:

Got a spare halo you could toss my way . . .?

 

[marksman]

As you can see for yourself, homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted within Christianity

Not quite true. If you do the maths, you will find it is becoming more accepted amongst apostate religion, which is not the same as Christianity.

And what I do know is that the real church is more accepting of the fact that a same sex attraction is not necessarily chosen, but the act of homosexuality is, so the SSA is not the problem, following through on it is.

No different to having an opposite sex attraction that is not a sin, but following through on it outside of marriage is.

Both are sinning against our own bodies and are condemned in scripture. I think that is a reasonable admission as God created us to leave our mother and father and become one flesh...when we have taken a wife. Not when we have taken a boyfriend, girlfriend, a son, a daughter, a brother, a daughter and so on.

Yes, I watched the Dr. Rosaria Butterfield interview in its entirety. It was a good personal testimonial and as long as she is happy being the person she is then good for her.

According to the pink mafia, she is a liar and deluding herself as according to them, no one can stop being gay or change. If you accept they can, then you are admitting that the pink mafia are liars and dishonest.

Got a spare halo you could toss my way . . .?

I have yet to work out why you need a halo to read scripture, apart from the fact that halo's do not exists except in medieval paintings.

I really do believe that, in time, the 'Church/homosexual thing' will be seen to have been one of the most unnecessary 'beat-ups' of all time.

This statement shows how naive you are. The pink mafia is conducting a full frontal assault on the church as they know it is the only organisation that is still standing against the debauchery they want to introduce into society.

A debauchery that will destroy society as it always does. if they get their way, you will see all manner of perversion become legal and acceptable and it will destroy YOU along with many other innocent people, because it will be illegal to oppose it.

It will be the fulfilment of the scripture that says people will call good evil and evil good but I know that you cannot comprehend this as the most important thing to you is that we don't offend homosexuals.

And if you think the "Unmasking the Gay agenda" is a beat up, don't say you haven't been warned when it all comes crashing down.

 

[KCKID]

ROFLMAO Are you for real?

1 You are then a fool. God considered it worthy of capital punishment.

Profaning the Sabbath was punishable by death, i.e. it was (is?) a capitol offense. Unless you keep Friday sundown until Saturday sundown you have committed a capitol offense and should be stoned to death. How about it ...is it okay with you if we enforce that law?

2 God rejects nobody sure! But we reject Him. Is sexual orientation trivial? Our body is the temple of God, you fool. You reason like the devil.

Yes, sexual orientation is trivial. Absolutely trivial. It's only such as you that makes such a deal out of it. By the way, you just called someone a fool. According to Jesus, that is tantamount to murder, not to mention rude. Man, you're not doing too well in the Christian Department, are you?

3 How old are you? You would see a guy divorcing his wife for adultery on the same scale as another divorcing his wife for changing her hair colour?

That's all it takes for one to divorce nowadays. Few people divorce these days for reasons other than that they're bored with the other. That includes many Christians. No wins, three losses so far.

4 Sorry bud, the Bible doesn't change. God doesn't change.

Four losses. God changed His mind more often than some of us change our socks. How many covenants have there been? How many 'old abominations' were revoked with the New Covenant? ALL but one, it would seem. God doesn't change? You've got to be kidding!

5 Care to mention some. You are merely failing at reading and context.

Ah yes, the failure to read out of context as long as it doesn't agree with me trick. I'm sure that Jack has already taken care of this question.

6 You confuse mentioning slavery with supporting slavery. Scripture clearly says God is impartial / no respecter of persons.

Good cop out. Are you God's PR man . . .?

7 Homosexuality is something people can't change? You are then very naive and ignorant. A guy who has working male parts and wants to be a girl needs a sex CHANGE to be a girl. A guy who wants to be with another guy needs to go against the natural cause for which his body was created....which shows everyone he is merely a mental case. God can and does help mental cases! I was living in sexual sin before I got converted. It is extreme lust of the flesh, nothing else! I knew it was dirty and bad just never had the strength to stop. But when I got saved and fell in love with Jesus, different story.

Good for you. Just don't try to speak for everyone ...okay?

You are either not saved or the worst kind of Christian on the planet. Blurring the bible and running it down like the devil.

Jesus said, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged" . . .Luke 6:37

 

[marksman]

I was just giving my definition of "a Christian" as was asked of me .

It wasn't a very good one as you chose to be pejorative about some other Christians which suggests it was a description of you and had a "holier than you" attitude about it.

 

[KCKID]

According to the pink mafia, she is a liar and deluding herself as according to them, no one can stop being gay or change. If you accept they can, then you are admitting that the pink mafia are liars and dishonest.

The pink mafia again, eh, marksman? Are you aware that there is nothing on the Internet about this so-called group?

Okay, here is my take on the Dr. Rosaria Butterfield 'conversion'. I do believe that one's sexual orientation cannot be changed. If one is heterosexual then they will remain heterosexual for life. This does not mean that aberations are not possible. In prison, for instance, same gender sex may well be performed by heterosexual men where heterosexual sex is not possible. In the past, during times of war, it was common practice by some cultures to intimidate and demasculinize one's enemies by raping them. The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah are prime examples of a culture prone to a similar form of 'hospitality' toward strangers. So too is it possible for homosexuals (probably bi-sexuals) to function as heterosexuals, to marry, to have children and yet still be homosexual oriented. Many such men and some women have years later 'come out' and declared their homosexuality, much to the disappointment of their partners.

So, in the case of Dr. Butterfield, if she was a lesbian to begin with (or bi-sexual) she would not require 'conversion per se' to function as a heterosexual woman. She would still be homosexually oriented but quite able to function as a 'heterosexual' woman. In fact, I would imagine that, for a homosexual woman, playing the 'straight' role would be much easier than it would be for a homosexual man to do so. I don't recall whether Dr. Butterfield ever makes the claim to being heterosexual. All we know is that she married a man and is the mother of several children.

I have yet to work out why you need a halo to read scripture, apart from the fact that halo's do not exists except in medieval paintings.

I don't. It was just that the text supplied by JB and intended to demean someone else implied that he's a saint. Good point about the halo only existing in paintings.

 

[dragonfly]

Just focusing on the word 'abomination', KC,

How many 'old abominations' were revoked with the New Covenant?

Not one, is the correct answer.


Perhaps you aren't aware that the law of God 1) still exists; 2) to be adhered to ???


There are many places in the OT where the God applied His laws to Gentiles as well as Israelites.



Here's an interesting sentence from Paul:

1 Corinthians 9:21 '.... (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) ...'



To those who think there is 'no law' in our New Covenant relationship with God, think again, please?

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


I put it to you that there is plenty of NT text ruling out universal salvation, and what God is saying in His above promise - first made hundreds of years before Christ - is that there is a day coming when there won't be anyone alive who doesn't also have His law written in their heart and mind. Today is the day of salvation. Harden not your heart. It takes real faith to believe in God's word, and so far you don't seem to understand that God keeps all of His word, both to save, and to destroy, as He did in the wilderness.

 

[marksman]

While nearly all of that post is anti-gay paranoia pretty much on par with other types of fringe scare tactics, this statement is just an example of misleading info. This implies homsexuals endores sex crimes of all kinds, which of course normal people understand not to be true and absurd. The rest of the post was equally so, and nearly everyone within the main stream would not be swayed by it.

I had a laugh when I read this. It is standard practice of the pink mafia when they have no arguments to counteract the truth, they always say it is not true or misleading, which is code for "It is the truth but we can't counteract it, so let's cast doubts on its veracity."

For the most part this kind of fringe thinking is harmless, and even counter productive to their hope to pass anti-gay laws. When fringe individuals are the leaders of any effort to control minority groups, such fringe groups isolate themselves further from the main stream who aren't looking to harm others who are minding their own business, are friends & family, have normal lives, pay taxes, etc, etc. When those on the fringe yell "The homos are coming, the homos are coming, we need to pass laws to to protect ourselves from the homos", it only ensures that what they want will never happen. They are just perceived as being far too extreme to take seriously.

I had a laugh at this one too as it confirms the unmasking of the gay agenda.

It's my opinion that you definitely need to do some rethinking on this topic, SIM. It's unlikely to happen, unfortunately, since - as mentioned above - fear and hatred toward homosexuals within the Christian community is too deeply rooted. Perhaps the upcoming next generation will better handle this.

I am very impressed...not, in the sweeping allegations you indulge in.

FYI, fear and hatred towards homosexuals within the Christian community.....should read "fear and hatred towards homosexuals within SOME OF the Christian community. ....

Some of the Christian community are working day and night to help homosexuals who know that it is not normal and want to be shot of it.

Some of the Christian community are at the forefront of nursing care for homosexuals with AIDS.

Some of the Christian community are educating the church that a same sex attraction is not necessarily chosen but the act of homosexuality is.

Some of the Christian community are supporting those with a same sex attraction who do not want to give into the urge to have sex with men.

Using blanket statements is nothing more than spreading lies and creating false perceptions.

 

[dragonfly]

I do believe that one's sexual orientation cannot be changed.

Okay. Let me reflect this back to you.

God, the Maker of the universe, who appeared in the likeness of human flesh and miraculously healed multitudes, casting out demons with only a verbal command, believes sexual orientation can be changed.

But you disagree with Him, and you think your opinion is somehow weightier than His? Any reason we should take your word for it?




Hi marksman,

I'm not sure if you realise the little red flag by the envelope icon in the top right near your name, means there is a Private Message waiting for you (from me). I think there will be a way to disable PMs if you don't want to receive them, and I will understand if you don't. The system let me send it, though.

Blessings.

 

[JackSafari]

But you disagree with Him, and you think your opinion is somehow weightier than His? Any reason we should take your word for it?

.

I am disagreeing with you because i don't agree with your perception.

I believe God challenges us to think for ourselves as individuals, and expects us to speak out when we see injustice being imposed on others who have done no wrong\harm. This is what Jesus did.