Homosexuality

[KCKID]

LOL!, You're an animal.

If you meant to say 'You're an animal lover' you're dead right. I love 'em. More so than people much of the time. Just thought that I'd finish the sentence off for you though I have no idea what it has to do with the topic . . .

 

[JackSafari]

.

like the klu klux klan then the opressed.

.

The Klan is a good example of a well known fringe Christian origination that openly promotes racism and anti-homosexual beliefs. The majority of Christianity rejects their beliefs and values.

 

[KCKID]

So you keep saying over and over again and you have been told that it is a claim of the homosexual revised version of the bible. But like all of homosexuality, the truth is never welcome.

If people would pay attention the first time I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself that all homosexual references in the Bible pertain to idolatry and its associated practices. The Bible I would commonly use for reference on this and other scriptural topics would be the KJV, sometimes the NIV. I don't know of any homosexual revised versions of the Bible. Perhaps you have a homosexual version that I could borrow ...?

You can put whatever spin on it you want but it won't change the fact that in Genesis 2:24 God ordained that a man would leave his mother and father (not a single parent or two dads please note) and cleave to his WIFE and they shall become one flesh.

It was the ideal arrangement for procreational purposes but not a command. I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that, according to Genesis, Eve (a female) was an afterthought. God was simply searching for 'a helper' for Adam. He searched among the animals first which always makes me smile . . .I imagine Cain and Abel having possibly been half man/half giraffe.

Jesus confirmed that when he quoted the same verses.

So the evidence is clear. God has NEVER changed his mind about what is acceptable sexually. That means that ALL SEX outside of a man and woman who is married is not on God's agenda in any shape or form.

Of course. Sex was solely for procreation. Women were pretty much the means by which a man could provide (preferably) male heirs. Women were the property of the male, little more than 'baby-making machines', second in importance to his home.

That being the case, can you show me in scripture where God said he approves of men having sex with men?

No, I certainly cannot. I also can't find any place in scripture where God approves of men having sex with women unless for procreation. If you can present one such scripture, however, I will be most interested in reading it.

This claim is ridiculous in the extreme.

Since when has prayer been a sin?

Since when has praising God been a sin?

Since when has giving to the poor been a sin?

Since when has reading the bible been a sin?

Since when has becoming a missionary been a sin?

Since when has taking in an orphan been a sin?

Since when has baking a cake for someone been a sin?

Since when has doing hospital visitation been a sin?

Since when has helping a neighbour who is ill been a sin?

Since when has feeding a neighbours cat whilst they are away been a sin?

Since when has praying for the sick been a sin?

Such a claim suggests that you do not know what the truth is.

I SO agree with you about the examples you give above, marksman. However, I'm not God. Isaiah 64:6 tells us that whatever we do cannot possible please God since our righteousness is as filthy rags. Even when we do good we are doing it for the wrong reasons ...i.e. self-serving or 'appearing' to do good to win favor with God. By the way, I don't necessarily agree with the teaching of many Christian evangelicals with regard to their interpretation of that text. As for the truth ...it seems that we all see the truth as we individually see the truth, marksman. What IS truth?

 

[dragonfly]

Any medical or psychological 'harm' associated with homosexuality or heterosexuality is NOT addressed in the Bible at all.

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


On your concerns (KC) about Christian and scriptural attitudes to 'recreational sex', please check out the following verse in context:

Genesis 26:8 And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife.

 

[KCKID]

1 You fail to grasp the full reasoning behind the Sabbath. Ever wonder why some crimes got you ex-communicated and some put to death?

Tell me instead of keeping me in suspense.

The Sabbath, by the way, is a commemoration of Creation Week. God rested on the 7th-day and blessed and sanctified the day. This was way before the first Jew. Moreover, the Creation Sabbath can never be changed to another day, i.e. Sunday. THAT is the day most Christians refer to as 'the Sabbath'. Seems to me there is something very wrong with this . . .

2 Respecting God with the body He gave you, is trivial? When I call you and Jack fools I am merely quoting Jesus in Matt 23:17. Context of Matt 5:22 is being unrighteously angry.

Did God not give a homosexual their body as well as their sexual orientation? Actually, I would credit mom and dad for giving me my body more so than God.

3
4 You really do fail harder in every post . The NT was not a change of mind. God planned Jesus from the beginning. God's righteousness does not adapt, It is.

I said that God DID change His mind on a number of occasions. I still say that, or, at least, my Bible does.

5
6 You fail at reading the bible. Netchaplain had a nice thread here on judging. Go do some actual bible study. Stop listening to that demented voice in your ear.

Just say that you don't agree with me and tell me why you don't agree with me if you can. There is no cause to throw insults at me. The more you do so the less credible is your Christianity. Okay?

Why are you still here? You have publicly confessed that you reject 90% of the bible.

Why shouldn't I be here? And, what I reject, or at least question, is some, even much, of mainstream Christianity's interpretation of scripture.

 

[KingJ]

Tell me instead of keeping me in suspense.

The Sabbath, by the way, is a commemoration of Creation Week. God rested on the 7th-day and blessed and sanctified the day. This was way before the first Jew. Moreover, the Creation Sabbath can never be changed to another day, i.e. Sunday. THAT is the day most Christians refer to as 'the Sabbath'. Seems to me there is something very wrong with this . . .


Did God not give a homosexual their body as well as their sexual orientation? Actually, I would credit mom and dad for giving me my body more so than God.


I said that God DID change His mind on a number of occasions. I still say that, or, at least, my Bible does.


Just say that you don't agree with me and tell me why you don't agree with me if you can. There is no cause to throw insults at me. The more you do so the less credible is your Christianity. Okay?


Why shouldn't I be here? And, what I reject, or at least question, is some, even much, of mainstream Christianity's interpretation of scripture.

You missed me explaining how the bible says you are a fool? Having to discuss with you is painful. You fail at Christianity and I am done pointing out your failures. Your take on Christianity stinks. People that call themselves Christians but don't stand for even the major expected standards of Christianity are the worst king of person one can come across. I will jump out of the heaven that you, Jack and all the homosexuals land up in! I promise !!!!!!!! You will not be welcome my side where people actually use their God giving eyes and brains.

If God wanted homosexuality He would have made another means of reproduction and not left men with a but as the only non-oral option for sex.

The Klan is a good example of a well known fringe Christian origination that openly promotes racism and anti-homosexual beliefs. The majority of Christianity rejects their beliefs and values.

Your insight is a joke.

 

[JackSafari]

^^ Check out the Klan website, they are very clear about being a christian organization that promotes racism and denounces homosexuality. Maybe you believe they represent the mainstream, but their membership peeked decades ago and has been dwindling ever since.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Equating people who believe that homosexuality is sinful to the KKK is ridiculous. It just goes to show how desperate people are when it comes to this subject. What is it about homosexuality that drives people mad? Why can't they just accept that homosexuality is a sin? Bestiality is a sin, and I don't see anyone defending that even though there is no logical basis to differentiate homosexuality and bestiality as far as it's nature. what 3rd world demon seriously commits people to be so impossibly fixed on defending an obvious and coneived sin? Wake up and smell the coffee. Maybe you should just find another religion.

 

[marksman]

There is plenty of documented research on the topic. Sexual orientation is something that can't be changed. It's highly likely that medical research will discover the genetic factors involved that explains why this is true.

Sorry but truth is not on your side. If that is the case, why did a homosexual stand up at a conference and say that we have to convince people that we are born homosexual even though we are not, then we can make it a civil rights issue.

And why did Graham Willett, homosexual, former editor of a homosexual magazine and book writer say that being born gay is crap. If we say that, we can't seduce all those good looking straight guys out there.

And what do all the former homosexuals do who were homosexual but no longer are? Do they have to renounce their heterosexuality and become homosexual again?

And what about all those Christians in Corinth that once were homosexual but no longer are.

And what do you do with a God who does not approve of sin but does approve of the sin of homosexuality?

And what about the fact that the American APA said you were not born homosexual and then they said you were born homosexual and then they said you may or may not be born homosexual?

In the words of Shirley MacLaine, you are out on a limb buddy.

If people would pay attention the first time I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself that all homosexual references in the Bible pertain to idolatry and its associated practices. The Bible I would commonly use for reference on this and other scriptural topics would be the KJV, sometimes the NIV. I don't know of any homosexual revised versions of the Bible. Perhaps you have a homosexual version that I could borrow ...?

The one not paying attention is you. As I have said many times but obviously you are not paying attention, or prefer not to as it doesn't support your weird and wonderful ideas about the bible, is that what is important is the general revelation of scripture and that is sooooooooooooooo obvious. ALL SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS SIN.

You do have a homosexual revised version. it is the one you use to ignore the truth and conjure up ideas that support your fixation and allow you to ignore the truth that ALL SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS SIN.

If people would pay attention the first time I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself that all homosexual references in the Bible pertain to idolatry and its associated practices. The Bible I would commonly use for reference on this and other scriptural topics would be the KJV, sometimes the NIV. I don't know of any homosexual revised versions of the Bible. Perhaps you have a homosexual version that I could borrow ...?

The one not paying attention is you. As I have said many times but obviously you are not paying attention, or prefer not to as it doesn't support your weird and wonderful ideas about the bible, is that what is important is the general revelation of scripture and that is sooooooooooooooo obvious. ALL SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS SIN.

You do have a homosexual revised version. it is the one you use to ignore the truth and conjure up ideas that support your fixation and allow you to ignore the truth that ALL SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS SIN.

It was the ideal arrangement for procreational purposes but not a command. I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that, according to Genesis, Eve (a female) was an afterthought. God was simply searching for 'a helper' for Adam. He searched among the animals first which always makes me smile . . .I imagine Cain and Abel having possibly been half man/half giraffe.

And that makes homosexuality acceptable ?????

Of course. Sex was solely for procreation. Women were pretty much the means by which a man could provide (preferably) male heirs. Women were the property of the male, little more than 'baby-making machines', second in importance to his home.

And that proves God approves of homosexuality????

No, I certainly cannot.

I rest my case.

 

[KCKID]

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And what, precisely, is being addressed here? Is the text referencing one or two homosexual members of the early Church who were involved in sexual relations at home? Is it referencing rampant homosexuality, i.e. same-sex couples sexually attracted to one another who were involved in sexual relations within the Church setting? Or, is this text addressing the worship and the associated sexual and other practices of idolatry that were totally prohibited by God? I'm pretty sure that I know what this text is addressing, even though rather ambiguous and described in language that is strange to our modern ear. As for "and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet ..." This is an ancient descriptive term, the meaning of which can only be guessed. Whatever it means it's almost certainly associated with the practices of idolatry as is the rest of the text.

On your concerns (KC) about Christian and scriptural attitudes to 'recreational sex', please check out the following verse in context:

Genesis 26:8 And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife.

Well, I don't think that anyone would be naive enough to believe that males and females didn't 'sport' with one another. However, just because they did does not mean that God had not given sex solely for procreation. And, if God WAS/IS okay with sex 'for fun' then it would not logically matter how this adult 'sex fun' was derived at, would it? Why must it be between male and female? That said, sex is also an outlet for loving intimacy which the word 'fun' demeans and both heterosexuals and homosexuals DO have sex for this purpose whether God-intended or not.

 

[marksman]

I SO agree with you about the examples you give above, marksman

No you don't as you said everything we do is sin.

 

[JackSafari]

.
And what do all the former homosexuals do who were homosexual but no longer are? Do they have to renounce their heterosexuality and become homosexual again? .

There are no former homosexuals because they can not change their sexual orientation. Each person is always free to change their sexual behavior if they feel it is conflict with their religious beliefs, but they never can change their sexual orientation, just like people can't change the color of their skin. It is really is that straight forward.

In the years to come, you will find that homosexuality is more and more accepted within our culture and within Christianity as a whole. You may never change your mind on the issue, which is your right, but you will see the majority of people shift away from the beliefs you are hold onto, and feel no spiritual or religious conflict about accepting it. It is what is happening now, and will continue to happen. Inclusion always wins, exclusion can only hold on for a very limited amount of time, it is God's great design!

 

[KCKID]

No you don't as you said everything we do is sin.

According to "God".

 

[SilenceInMotion]

There are no former homosexuals because they can not change their sexual orientation, just like people can't change the color of their skin. It really is that straight forward.

They surely changed their orientation from hetero to homo, so why can't they change back? It's like a clean person who starts drinking heavily. Pretty soon, they become an alcoholic and the clean lifestyle just isn't good enough.

You talk about 'straight foward', but it's dressed in lies. You propel a strightfoward falsehood, and use social bias as a crutch. That is why I say go find another religion. those such as yourself steal Christianity and mold it into whatever you want it to be. Christianity is a religion, not some lego set you just build whatever you like with.

 

[JackSafari]

They surely changed their orientation from hetero to homo, so why can't they change back?.

You're talking about a sex change operation, which something completely different. And most homosexuals never get a sex change, nor even want one.

Sexual Orientation is a person's sexual attraction So when I, and others say a person can't change their sexual orientation, it means they can't change what gets them sexually aroused. It has nothing to do with a sex change operation.

Christianity is a religion, not some lego set you just build whatever you like with.

Christianity has always been changing, and will continue to change, it is God's will that it continue to evolve to an even wiser religion that it has been in the past.

 

[Rex]

My advice to those that can't stop beating there heads against the wall

Rev 22:10-12

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

My advice to those that can't stop beating there heads against the wall

Rev 22:10-12

AMEN!

 

[Foreigner]

The Klan is a good example of a well known fringe Christian origination that openly promotes racism and anti-homosexual beliefs. The majority of Christianity rejects their beliefs and values.

-- Newsflash! Just because you call yourself something, that doesn't make it so.

The very fact that the Klan believes what they does proves they are not a Christian organization.
Just like Westboro Baptist Churh that protests at the funerals of servicemembers.

And just like someone who claims that God's own word should be ignored and that God somehow supports the homosexual lifestyle and Gay Marraige.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

In the years to come, you will find that homosexuality is more and more accepted within our culture and within Christianity as a whole. You may never change your mind on the issue, which is your right, but you will see the majority of people shift away from the beliefs you are hold onto, and feel no spiritual or religious conflict about accepting it. It is what is happening now, and will continue to happen. Inclusion always wins, exclusion can only hold on for a very limited amount of time, it is God's great design!

Yeah, it's called Revelation. You seem to forget that the world is supposed to get worse, not better. Otherwise, there would be no need for a *drumroll*

APOCALYPSE

Churches will become apostate, the world will become more deviant- these things are all in the BIBLE.

 

[KCKID]

They surely changed their orientation from hetero to homo, so why can't they change back? It's like a clean person who starts drinking heavily. Pretty soon, they become an alcoholic and the clean lifestyle just isn't good enough.

Absolute unadulterated garbage! Those who make claims such as this need to provide actual evidence that homosexuals are REALLY no more than 'deviant' heterosexuals or otherwise retract such statements! The majority here - even though few in number - would last no more than 10 seconds in an actual scientific debate on this topic. Ignorance under the guize of pious authority is still ignorance!

You talk about 'straight foward', but it's dressed in lies. You propel a strightfoward falsehood, and use social bias as a crutch. That is why I say go find another religion. those such as yourself steal Christianity and mold it into whatever you want it to be. Christianity is a religion, not some lego set you just build whatever you like with.

You are skating on very thin ice here, SIM, with your accusatory tone toward anyone that doesn't believe as you do. There are quite a number of Christian denominations - and growing in number - throughout the world who are 'gay friendly' and yet they still call themselves Christians, i.e. they are followers of Jesus Christ. I'm one of them. Okay?

-- Newsflash! Just because you call yourself something, that doesn't make it so.

Except that this Newsflash! is intended only for others who call themselves something and not you, right?

The very fact that the Klan believes what they does proves they are not a Christian organization.

Do you believe that nonChristians will finish up in a place called hell where they will be tormented forever and ever? Do you believe that NOT to believe such a thing proves that one is not a Christian?

Just like Westboro Baptist Churh that protests at the funerals of servicemembers.

While you might obect to them protesting funerals of service members, do you also object to their parading "Fags Must Die: See Leviticus 20:13" banners?

And just like someone who claims that God's own word should be ignored and that God somehow supports the homosexual lifestyle and Gay Marraige.

Where does God ever make the claim in the Bible that the words in the Bible are "God's own words"? That's a serious question, by the way. Furthermore, there are MANY words in the Bible ...some of which are most cruel and tyrannical and go against the grain of any decent human being. So, which words are we talking about? Again, that's a serious question that requires more than an insulting one-liner telling me how ignorant I am.

(1) What is it about homosexuality that drives people mad? (2) Why can't they just accept that homosexuality is a sin?

(3) Bestiality is a sin, and I don't see anyone defending that even though (4) there is no logical basis to differentiate homosexuality and bestiality as far as it's nature.

(5) what 3rd world demon seriously commits people to be so impossibly fixed on defending an obvious and coneived sin?

(6) Wake up and smell the coffee. (7) Maybe you should just find another religion.

(1) Good question ...JUST WHAT IS IT about homosexuality that drives you mad resulting in people feeling the need to defend themselves when they should not have to? (2) why should one who has nothing to do with a harmless involuntary feeling have to accept - because YOU said so - that this feeling is a sin?

(3) Then don't participate in bestiality. (4) Um ...one involves a human being, the other an animal. I thought you knew that.

(5) I have no idea. I don't believe in demons.

(6) Okay . . .make mine black with one sugar.

(7) Do you have another religion in mind . . .? I must confess that I am being turned off mainstream Christianity since it often preaches a message that is contrary to that of Jesus.