Homosexuality

[dragonfly]

There is no evidence that Homosexuality is bad\unhealthy for a person, or that sexual orientation is a choice a person makes (or its forced upon them).

Hi Jack,

You don't know what you're talking about. You haven't read into this topic deeply enough, nor have you talked with the male survivors of childhood abuse by both males and females, whose previously normal and naturally developing heterosexuality has been mauled out of all recognition and wholeness. I know I know what I'm talking about, because I've done my homework, as well as extensive Bible study.

 

[JackSafari]

Hi Jack,

You don't know what you're talking about. You haven't read into this topic deeply enough, nor have you talked with the male survivors of childhood abuse by both males and females, whose previously normal and naturally developing heterosexuality has been mauled out of all recognition and wholeness. I know I know what I'm talking about, because I've done my homework, as well as extensive Bible study.

There is no evidence that sexual abuse causes a heterosexual person to change their sexual orientation to be homosexual; this is pretty well documented now. The vast majority homosexuals have never been sexually abused, just like the vast majority heterosexuals never have been sexual abused. Of those who have been sexually abused, their sexual orientation remains unchanged. Sexual abuse can have a huge (negative) impact on a person's sexual behavior. Sexual origination and sexual behavior are not the same.

A person's sexual orientation does not change with religious beliefs. Religious beliefs may help guide a person's sexual behavior\choices, but it never changes their sexual interests.

 

[Rex]

A person's sexual orientation does not change with religious beliefs. Religious beliefs may help guide a person's sexual behavior\choices, but it never changes their sexual interests.

Jack that sounds very nice a sincere but the evidence points to an agenda not to be guided by "religious" beliefs as you call them, but to change them to satisfy or justify sexual preferences. KCkid accused some Christians of having an agenda, some do and are very hypocritical, I pointed that out to one on the last page. But the promotion of homosexuality is an agenda as well and it has everything to do with religion and the bible. By changing the 8 biblical references to same sex physical relationships to be homosexual friendly is an agenda.

So I don't spend much time trying to change or alter your mind, it's made up, yours and KC's being here is simply to further promote the acceptance of homosexual behavior "agenda" which you like to label hate filled, to those that disagree in context of holy behavior.
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It's not too difficult to figure out those who are pushing their own hate-filled aganda ...an agenda that has little or nothing to do with God/the Bible. There is much deception going on here and I doubt that this would be pleasing to an Almighty God.

Agendas seems to be the norm these days, changing documents that have
been preserved and dated from the first century and before is an agenda
as well, wouldn't you agree?

The Queen James Bible
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0615724531?tag=qjv-20

 

[JackSafari]

.
So I don't spend much time trying to change or alter your mind, it's made up, yours and KC's being here is simply to further promote the acceptance of homosexual behavior "agenda" which you like to label hate filled, to those that disagree in context of holy behavior..

The objective is to ensure that no one is discriminated against (or harmed) for their sexual origination, just like people should not be discriminated against for the the color of their skin.

Those who have hate for homosexuality have very serious conflicts within themselves as individuals, but I do not see it in Christianity as a whole. I see it only within fringe religious groups who are being left behind as we move forward, and we shall always be eternally moving forward leaving behind beliefs that longer have any value to humanity and God. As with all false beliefs that give way to a greater understanding within Christianity, all other religions, and humanity, it never happens over night, but with each passing generation, truth always prevails even it does not happen as fast as we'd like to happen.

As with everyone, what you choose to belief is between you and God.

 

[Rex]

The objective is ensure that no one is discriminated against (or harmed) for their sexual origination, just like people should not be discriminated against for the the color of their skin.

And just how is this objective accomplished threw rewriting the homosexual implications in the bible? are you being harmed here? Do you feel discriminated against? Perhaps you do, to the point that you would change biblical writings several thousand years old to what end? To make you feel good about yourself. It's not us it's the word of God your upset about.

As with everyone, what you choose to belief is between you and God.

It doesn't seem your happy with what I or we believe, or what the bibles says as well. You're out evangelizing biblical homosexuality, so why don't you take your own advice and be happy about what you believe instead of insisting we conform to your Queen James Bible? I could care less how many boy friends you have or how you enjoy sodomizing others or be sodomized yourself. Just quit asking me to say or believe it's appropriate for me, or I must accept it as acceptable behavior in my understanding of God. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, look it up. Like you said, just keep it between you and your understanding god. I'll do the same.


KCKid has 85 post 81 of which are in this thread, so who has the agenda?

Just who is it that's discriminating? You come here and tell us were hateful when in reality it you that hates us and what we believe. You see it as a threat. It's called bating, hoping to become a poor victim because we wont crawl into or accept your choice of behavior.

Many years ago I put a homosexual in the hospitable for three days, you know why, because he wouldn't quit hitting on me, it went on for months in front of many witnesses, its called sexual harassment. It's not something I'm proud of but some people just don't understand that not everyone sees the world as they do in-spite of telling them so, they just wont go their own way and quit harassing others to join them even when those find their practice revolting.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

I see it only within fringe religious groups who are being left behind as we move forward, and we shall always be eternally moving forward leaving behind beliefs that longer have any value to humanity and God.

The small group of people are the one's supporting homosexuality. Notice what yuou just said there: you are falsely implying that most christians have accepted homosexuality when they have not.
This is a typical move that so many like yourself make- making the homosexual agenda within Christianity seem like it's actually winning or is prevalent. It is not. There are churches that have succombed to social demands, like the church if England, and there are those who are basically propped up by homosexual supporters themselves like MCC. But who else is there? A few Methodist churches out in the midwest, perhaps a megadome out in Australia somewhere.

That is a fringe, that is not 'us being left behind'. You're pretty much threatening Christendom with the self-righteous world. Good job. Talking about 'we will eternally march foward'. Well where are you marching to besides Revelation? Your god is not the same as mine, obviously, it you think society somehow reflects God's morals, especially along the lines of homosexuality, a very idolatrous and abominable sin. Why doesn't that speak to you in the Bible? Why don't you just accept the fact that it's there?

 

[Rex]

I also had a homosexual lure me in, and then tried to force himself on me, it was a stale mate, I told him the only way it was going to happen was If i was dead.
We broke away from each other and he left. I was young but not dumb.

On the other hand I have also meet some very nice homosexuals I even works for a couple in San Diego, very nice people not flaming f@gs. So maybe you should spend some time sifting your own wheat fields as well.

 

[JackSafari]

And just how is this objective accomplished threw rewriting the homosexual implications in the bible?
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I ask myself "What would Jesus do?"

The small group of people are the one's supporting homosexuality. Notice what yuou just said there: you are falsely implying that most christians have accepted homosexuality when they have not.
This is a typical move that so many like yourself make- making the homosexual agenda within Christianity seem like it's actually winning or is prevalent. It is not.

The truth will ultimately prevail, for it is the will of God that makes it happen. A growing awareness is a powerful gift that God has given all of us.

 

[Rex]

I ask myself "What would Jesus do?"

So you believe Jesus would rewrite the bible so you could continue in the "love is ok" homosexuality. Then send homosexuals out as Apostles with a new revision to the gospel.
Like I said, if that's what floats your boat run with it, but as for me and my family we will serve the Lord as he is quoted in the original bible.

I'm not asking you to accept what I believe, Offer me the same. I don't agree with so called christian activist, I'm a Christian Marine for lack of a better term, let then do as they please and let God sort them out. This war of the laws is getting stupid christian activist exactly what they don't want, you can not change people hearts by legal legislation, you would think that Christians that have received grace, because the law could never bring salvation would understand MORE LAWS is not the answer. Romans 3:20

I can only hope you become conscious of sin

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Hey, you're welcome and no need to apologize ...not everyone can keep up with me on an intellectual level . . .

What? I ONLY addressed the last line to you. But you cut and paste to make it seem I was addressing you when in-fact it was "SilenceInMotion". Haha... How desperate.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

The truth will ultimately prevail, for it is the will of God that makes it happen. A growing awareness is a powerful gift that God has given all of us.

The truth is that homosexuality is a sin, and it's prevailed since God said it was detestable and that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom.

Why should that all of a sudden change? There is no reason to have that in place 2000 years ago and not now. What lesser harm is it now then it was back then? It's actually a greater harm now- AIDS and STD's are more saturated in homosexual society, and is more easily attained through anal intercourse.

That is the killing blow to the entire homosexual agenda that's leaked into Christendom. The notion that homosexuality is okay is simply wrong, and is a product not of correct Christian morals but of the new founded acceptance and heralding of homosexuality in society. Such is homosexual supporters were not within Christianity prior to this new age.

 

[KCKID]

What? I ONLY addressed the last line to you. But you cut and paste to make it seem I was addressing you when in-fact it was "SilenceInMotion". Haha... How desperate.

The last line addressed FOR ME was all I needed to respond to. Why would I address what was intended for SilenceInMotion? You said that I - not SilenceInMotion - amused you.

Keep up, JB.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

The last line addressed FOR ME was all I needed to respond to. Why would I address what was intended for SilenceInMotion? You said that I - not SilenceInMotion - amused you.

Keep up, JB.

Then why bring my statement to him and yours together by cutting and pasting? Haha keep up kid. Your spirit is not going to help you this time.

 

[KCKID]

The truth is that homosexuality is a sin, and it's prevailed since God said it was detestable and that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom.

It seems that no matter how many times this is mentioned it falls on deaf ears. The truth is that EVERYTHING we do as human beings is a biblical sin. We can't help 'sinning'. Sin is inherently a human trait. Why homosexuality is singled out by many as being especially destestable (on a par with the eating of shellfish, pork, bacon, etc.) is a clear indicator that one's personal agenda is driving them and NOT the words from the Bible. NO ONE is worthy of inheriting the kingdom, according to the Bible! That said, it's ironic to some of us how some here have referred to homosexuality as being 'idolatry' when SO MANY Christians have made the Bible THEIR idol!

Why should that all of a sudden change? There is no reason to have that in place 2000 years ago and not now. What lesser harm is it now then it was back then? It's actually a greater harm now- AIDS and STD's are more saturated in homosexual society, and is more easily attained through anal intercourse.

Any medical or psychological 'harm' associated with homosexuality or heterosexuality is NOT addressed in the Bible at all. The only 'harm' that I see in the scriptures pertaining to homosexuality is that it was among the many worship rituals associated with idolatry which was forbidden and condemned by God. That's it! While there may well be medical and psychological harm associated with any form of sexual promiscuity the Bible does not address this per se. IDOLATRY and its associated practices is what is being addressed!

That is the killing blow to the entire homosexual agenda that's leaked into Christendom. The notion that homosexuality is okay is simply wrong, and is a product not of correct Christian morals but of the new founded acceptance and heralding of homosexuality in society. Such is homosexual supporters were not within Christianity prior to this new age.

If any form of sexual activity is being performed within the Church setting (as with the scriptural references) then it will obviously be condemned. What two adults might do - or not do - in private, however, is no one elses business.

Then why bring my statement to him and yours together by cutting and pasting? Haha keep up kid. Your spirit is not going to help you this time.

Seems like you've been hitting the spirits, JB . . .

I also had a homosexual lure me in, and then tried to force himself on me, it was a stale mate, I told him the only way it was going to happen was If i was dead.
We broke away from each other and he left. I was young but not dumb.

Is this supposed to indicate that such harrassment is unique to homosexuals? I've heard of any number of examples where girls had to obtain restraining orders on guys that were harrassing them. Is this a minus for heterosexuality or just specific people?

On the other hand I have also meet some very nice homosexuals I even works for a couple in San Diego, very nice people not flaming f@gs. So maybe you should spend some time sifting your own wheat fields as well.

I've also met some very nice heterosexuals ...what's your point? By the way, did you get 'flaming f@gs' from scripture or is that a personal term?

 

[SilenceInMotion]

What I am talking about here is that many Protestant denominations have made it 'legal' for homosexuals to have a place within the church...even teaching...even as they practice a lifestyle that the bible condemns. The Catholic church, thus far, has denied the legitimacy of this...and I do hope they continue to. And I can only pray that so many of the churches that have welcomed people living in open sin...indeed even given them a platform to teach and justify such sins, will be convicted of their mistake. It's a slippery slope.

The Church will never change it's standing on anything. You can see it just by witnessing things like this: In the 19th century, the pope issued a papal bull declaring all sacraments of the Church of England null and void. In more recent times, now that the CoE has laxed it's view on homosexuality (among other things), Pope Benedict empathized with Anglicans who did not like what their bishops were doing and offered, essentially, free use of non-sacramental English tradition with Roman conversion.
In other words, the pope pretty much declared that the Church of England is annulled, but you all can take it's former place before the 2nd Schism.

In that, you see how the Church simply doesn't change. The rest of the world changes, other churches change, but right there you see 150 years later after that papal bull, the Church is still the same as ever.

Pretty much, the good thing about Roman Catholcism is the consistancy. Heck, witnessing the sacraments in mass is like warping back to the middle ages. The Church really just doesn't change.


Looking at homosexuality and pedophilia, the Church has assumed a link between the two. Sort of in the same way of the link between homosexuality and AIDS- these things are not exclusive to homosexuals, but far more common collectively among them.

The majority of victims by priests are male, and while the ratio of girl/boy victims are 2:1, any given homosexual is much more likely to commit pedophilia then any given heterosexual.
With AIDS, homosexuals, who make up only a few percent of the population, make up about 60% of all known AIDS victoms collectively.

The Church sees these links, and expounds on these things to show why thomosexuality is detestable. It's central belief of homosexuality, literally, is that it is 'contrary to nature'. That is to say, it's not something someone is born with, and is a primal deviance.
If anybody is strongest in the paint of anti-homosexuality, it is the Church. And they do it correctly to: they'll pay for a campaign teaching against homosexuality while giving venial blessings to homosexual crowds outside of parishes and such. They do not hate, they rebuke the sin.

 

[marksman]

A person's sexual orientation does not change with religious beliefs. Religious beliefs may help guide a person's sexual behavior\choices, but it never changes their sexual interests.

I assume that you have done all the necessary research to prove this?

IDOLATRY and its associated practices is what is being addressed!

So you keep saying over and over again and you have been told that it is a claim of the homosexual revised version of the bible. But like all of homosexuality, the truth is never welcome.

You can put whatever spin on it you want but it won't change the fact that in Genesis 2:24 God ordained that a man would leave his mother and father (not a single parent or two dads please note) and cleave to his WIFE and they shall become one flesh.

Jesus confirmed that when he quoted the same verses.

So the evidence is clear. God has NEVER changed his mind about what is acceptable sexually. That means that ALL SEX outside of a man and woman who is married is not on God's agenda in any shape or form.

That being the case, can you show me in scripture where God said he approves of men having sex with men?

The truth is that EVERYTHING we do as human beings is a biblical sin.

This claim is ridiculous in the extreme.

Since when has prayer been a sin?

Since when has praising God been a sin?

Since when has giving to the poor been a sin?

Since when has reading the bible been a sin?

Since when has becoming a missionary been a sin?

Since when has taking in an orphan been a sin?

Since when has baking a cake for someone been a sin?

Since when has doing hospital visitation been a sin?

Since when has helping a neighbour who is ill been a sin?

Since when has feeding a neighbours cat whilst they are away been a sin?

Since when has praying for the sick been a sin?

Such a claim suggests that you do not know what the truth is.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

It seems that no matter how many times this is mentioned it falls on deaf ears. The truth is that EVERYTHING we do as human beings is a biblical sin. We can't help 'sinning'. Sin is inherently a human trait. Why homosexuality is singled out by many as being especially destestable (on a par with the eating of shellfish, pork, bacon, etc.) is a clear indicator that one's personal agenda is driving them and NOT the words from the Bible. NO ONE is worthy of inheriting the kingdom, according to the Bible! That said, it's ironic to some of us how some here have referred to homosexuality as being 'idolatry' when SO MANY Christians have made the Bible THEIR idol!


Any medical or psychological 'harm' associated with homosexuality or heterosexuality is NOT addressed in the Bible at all. The only 'harm' that I see in the scriptures pertaining to homosexuality is that it was among the many worship rituals associated with idolatry which was forbidden and condemned by God. That's it! While there may well be medical and psychological harm associated with any form of sexual promiscuity the Bible does not address this per se. IDOLATRY and its associated practices is what is being addressed!


If any form of sexual activity is being performed within the Church setting (as with the scriptural references) then it will obviously be condemned. What two adults might do - or not do - in private, however, is no one elses business.



Seems like you've been hitting the spirits, JB . . .



Is this supposed to indicate that such harrassment is unique to homosexuals? I've heard of any number of examples where girls had to obtain restraining orders on guys that were harrassing them. Is this a minus for heterosexuality or just specific people?


I've also met some very nice heterosexuals ...what's your point? By the way, did you get 'flaming f@gs' from scripture or is that a personal term?

LOL!, You're an animal.

 

[JackSafari]

I assume that you have done all the necessary research to prove this?

People are not born with immoral qualities (skin color, right\left handed, hair color, etc), so innate qualities are not immoral by nature.

There is plenty of documented research on the topic. Sexual orientation is something that can't be changed. It's highly likely that medical research will discover the genetic factors involved that explains why this is true.

 

[KingJ]

1 Profaning the Sabbath was punishable by death, i.e. it was (is?) a capitol offense. Unless you keep Friday sundown until Saturday sundown you have committed a capitol offense and should be stoned to death. How about it ...is it okay with you if we enforce that law?


2 Yes, sexual orientation is trivial. Absolutely trivial. It's only such as you that makes such a deal out of it. By the way, you just called someone a fool. According to Jesus, that is tantamount to murder, not to mention rude. Man, you're not doing too well in the Christian Department, are you?


3 That's all it takes for one to divorce nowadays. Few people divorce these days for reasons other than that they're bored with the other. That includes many Christians. No wins, three losses so far.


4 Four losses. God changed His mind more often than some of us change our socks. How many covenants have there been? How many 'old abominations' were revoked with the New Covenant? ALL but one, it would seem. God doesn't change? You've got to be kidding!


5 Ah yes, the failure to read out of context as long as it doesn't agree with me trick. I'm sure that Jack has already taken care of this question.


Good cop out. Are you God's PR man . . .?


Good for you. Just don't try to speak for everyone ...okay?


6 Jesus said, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged" . . .Luke 6:37

1 You fail to grasp the full reasoning behind the Sabbath. Ever wonder why some crimes got you ex-communicated and some put to death?
2 Respecting God with the body He gave you, is trivial? When I call you and Jack fools I am merely quoting Jesus in Matt 23:17. Context of Matt 5:22 is being unrighteously angry.
3
4 You really do fail harder in every post . The NT was not a change of mind. God planned Jesus from the beginning. God's righteousness does not adapt, It is.
5
6 You fail at reading the bible. Netchaplain had a nice thread here on judging. Go do some actual bible study. Stop listening to that demented voice in your ear.

Why are you still here? You have publicly confessed that you reject 90% of the bible.

I stand behind what I wrote in my previous post.

As you can see for yourself, homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted within Christianity. This a good and healthy thing to happen. Does not matter that you want the forward progress to stop, just like those who believed the bible supported racism as acceptable, and fought to keep their racist beliefs while Christianity embraced equality among all.

This is what I believe what Jesus would say on this subject:

Man: Jesus, I am a homosexual, can you save me by making me a heterosexual?
Jesus: I will not take away a gift that God has given you. Live as you are, for you have already been saved.

I read Marksmans reply and agree with him. I just want to add...how naive must one be to draw a parallel between homo-sexuality and racism.

Scripture clearly says God is impartial. Scripture clearlys says God hates homosexuality. You are more like the klu klux klan then the opressed. God made us different races, not homosexual.

Unless you are blind, you HAVE NO excuse for not knowing God's sexual plan for your life.

There is no evidence that Homosexuality is bad\unhealthy for a person, or that sexual orientation is a choice a person makes (or its forced upon them).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_cancer

 

[JackSafari]

It seems that no matter how many times this is mentioned it falls on deaf ears. The truth is that EVERYTHING we do as human beings is a biblical sin. We can't help 'sinning'. Sin is inherently a human trait. Why homosexuality is singled out by many as being especially destestable (on a par with the eating of shellfish, pork, bacon, etc.) is a clear indicator that one's personal agenda is driving them and NOT the words from the Bible. NO ONE is worthy of inheriting the kingdom, according to the Bible! That said, it's ironic to some of us how some here have referred to homosexuality as being 'idolatry' when SO MANY Christians have made the Bible THEIR idol!
?

Even those who are the same side of the religious discussion and believe that The Bible is the unquestionable final word of God, can't agree 100%, which is why for the past 2000 years there have been many splits into different branches of Christianity And even in online forums there are heated debates over nearly all sections of the bible. Pick a verse, and it is easy to find disagreement. Stepping back, it would appear that The Bible was written to encourage religious debate\thinking rather then to always say " XXX is bad\wrong\immoral for the following reasons" instead there are many cryptic statements that have no justification and people are left to determine the meaning\intent. On top of that, The Bible has gone through many changes\translations in many different languages, so that even makes the meaning more complex. What The Bible says in Chineses is not perfectly translated to what is said in Spanish, French, English, etc.... My perception is that the intent is to get people to think, think for themselves, and not see The Bible as having all the answers, but a place where people are spiritually challenged to find God through debating\discussing what it means to be worthy of God's grace. IMHO, those question what they are told told is absolute truth and final word of God, and think for themselves, have the potential to do great things for themselves and others.

1


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_cancer

Yes, heterosexual men engage in anal sex with their wives and girlfriends. However this does not cause a heterosexual man to become homosexual. Anal sex is a sexual behavior, not a sexual orientation. There is no sexual behavior that cause a change in sexual orientation.