Homosexuality

[Foreigner]

Can I correct something that Highlight said and a lot of people believe.

No one is born homosexual...or heterosexual. We are born asexual. Children have no notion of heterosexuality or homosexuality or sexuality full stop. They just are. What is important to them is love, food, warmth, sleep and cuddles.

The development of our sexuality is determined by our environment which includes our family situation.

-- I have found that to be incorrect.
I have spoken with a number of homosexuals began resisting their homosexuality from a very early age because family, environment, society, standards, etc. dictated to them from birth that heterosexuality is the way a person should be.

My own nephew knew of his homosexual leanings before he was even a teenager. He kept it from his family because he knew how they felt about homosexuality as per the church, etc. He stated his own father always had a long litany of "gay jokes" so he felt it best not to wreck things until he was on his own in college.

If what you said was true, this would not happen for anyone within that community.

 

[SaturdayPastor]

We don't make homosexuality good or bad...God said he wouldn't accept it. So...I believe that to be VERY clear. Now for some context:

More than half of our (US) population has cheated on their spouse.
Most of our (US) population had premarital sex.
Most guys in the US use porn.

All of these things fall into the category of sexual sin. If you periodically (meaning an established repeating pattern) continue these sins with no effort to repent...you know the result.

The question is NOT:
Do you stumble and fall down?

The question is:
Do you fight to align yourself with God's will regardless of what your personal wishes may be?

 

[marksman]

"It amazes me that those that have never done something tend to speak the loudest as to how that something should actually be done".

Just a little story doing the rounds. Charles Finney was criticised for doing what he did the way he did. He asked her how she did it to which she replied that it was not something that she did.

Finney replied "I like the way I do it better than the way you don't do it."

Nuf zed.

 

[marksman]

We have caused tremendous harm to homosexuals in the church.

Now, now aspen, what a sweeping generalisation that is without merit. There are many churches who have nothing but compassion for people who are trapped by homosexuality and provide various ministries that offer a way out of this bondage.

I think you need to correct a lie of this nature and not tar everyone with the same brush.

"-- I have found that to be incorrect."

And after counselling homosexuals for many years, I have found it to be correct.

 

[ron]

We have caused tremendous harm to homosexuals in the church.

Now, now aspen, what a sweeping generalisation that is without merit. There are many churches who have nothing but compassion for people who are trapped by homosexuality and provide various ministries that offer a way out of this bondage.

I think you need to correct a lie of this nature and not tar everyone with the same brush.

"-- I have found that to be incorrect."

And after counselling homosexuals for many years, I have found it to be correct.

Yeah, I am sure plenty of Christians will agree with you Marksman. But if you ask the homosexuals that have been hurt by the church, you will get a better understanding why the majority of homosexuals feel judged and abandoned by the church.

Counseling homosexuals?! Convincing them that they can thrive as a heterosexual is not counseling them.

-Aspen

 

[[email protected]]

The answer to sin is to deny it, to take up one's cross and to carry it as Our Lord did with His.

Acceptance of sin does not favor the sinner, it does him harm. It does not counsel obedience to God's revealed will and it does nothing to educate the sinner about eternal issues. We have preached the cotton candy gospel far too long and it does no good to the church or to the unchurched.

God hates sinners.

The destiny of sinners is the lake of fire, not generic 'sins', not the acts, not the disobediance. Sinners!
It's in the book.
Like it or not that's the way things are.
It is better to shed a little light on the matter, to preach repentance, than to risk offending anyone.

The cotton candy gospel stinks in the nostrils of God. Abandon it.
Publish the law - for apart from conviction of sin there is no 'come to Jesus' in the sinners' soul.

 

[Foreigner]

The poll shows that four people (so far) feel that homosexuality is not a sin.

Instead of blaming "the church" on its treatment of homosexuals, I would be curious to hear how they justify their postion on the matter.

Does anyone here have the gumption to actually support your homosexuality-is-not-a-sin position?

 

[Comm.Arnold]

I try not to think about it too much because it makes me sick, I voted yes it is a sin. Seems like God designed anuses for exit only structures ....

 

[Perspectives]

Homosexuality is the height of selfisness. It demands sameness. It thrives on self. Most civilizations began their decline after accepting this as normal. There is nothing normal, good or healthy about putting yourself in a sewer hole. That being said, would I deny a seat at my dinner table to someone of this persuasion, no. Under what circumstances would I deny them? If they bring a political agenda designed to convince me otherwise. When I start a new job for instance, I don't declare that I'm straight! I've seen several times new workers make sure they tell everyone their sexual preference. Keep it to yourself. If you want to be free, you can. Does God have mercy waiting? Yes. Seek Him!

 

[aspen]

Homosexuality is the height of selfisness. It demands sameness. It thrives on self. Most civilizations began their decline after accepting this as normal. There is nothing normal, good or healthy about putting yourself in a sewer hole. That being said, would I deny a seat at my dinner table to someone of this persuasion, no. Under what circumstances would I deny them? If they bring a political agenda designed to convince me otherwise. When I start a new job for instance, I don't declare that I'm straight! I've seen several times new workers make sure they tell everyone their sexual preference. Keep it to yourself. If you want to be free, you can. Does God have mercy waiting? Yes. Seek Him!

how vulgar! Give me a break.....way to trash something you know nothing about! Homosexuality is a sin just like every other sin - stop making it worse

 

[Perspectives]

how vulgar! Give me a break.....way to trash something you know nothing about! Homosexuality is a sin just like every other sin - stop making it worse

The Truth hurts. Can't make it any worse! It is vulgar! Anyone with half a brain can see it for what it is. Hopefully your not suggesting that I partake in the debauchery of it all in order to know about it. Some want to soften it and somehow make it palatable to men and God. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, God does.

 

[7angels]

Jesus points out that we should take the log out of our own eye before we take the splinter out of someone elses'(matt 7:5). there are 2 kinds of sin. everyday sin where we make a mistake and ask forgiveness for and willful sin. the former is pretty well known so lets look at willful sin. willful sin is when we do something or are involved with something that we know is scripturally wrong. is there forgiveness for it? not when you make a habit or lifestyle of it(10:26-31, 1 john 3:3-10). christians should never have the opinion that sin is an option. willful sin comes about when you have been convicted in some area of your life and you do nothing about it. willful sin it is the same whether it comes through homosexuality or whether it is spending more time in front of a tv than with God or going out and getting drunk. as long as you are working on the problem you are ok but when you decide to stop working on it then it becomes unacceptable.
homosexuality is no different then any other sin. it is how you are dealing with it that determines whether it is wrong or not. for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God(rom 3:23). to God one sin is not worse than another(jam 2:10). those of you that bring up homosexuality is not of God and those people will go straight to hell are hypocrites. you are no better than the Pharisees.

 

[aspen]

The Truth hurts. Can't make it any worse! It is vulgar! Anyone with half a brain can see it for what it is. Hopefully your not suggesting that I partake in the debauchery of it all in order to know about it. Some want to soften it and somehow make it palatable to men and God. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, God does.

Where did you get the idea that I want you to engage in the sin of homosexuality? All I am highlighting is the Christian habit of focusing on homosexuality and holding it up as a particularly horrid sin - it is simply another sin in a long list of sins. It also happens to be the only sin that is not tempting to the majority of people on the planet, which fosters a stronger judgment from others. I agree with CS Lewis - I will not judge a sin that I am not tempted by because I have absolutely no idea how people who struggle with homosexuality feel.

 

[Fire-7]

I truly believe that most people who preach against homosexuality hate homosexuals. They might say they "love the sinner, hate the sin," but that's more of a cliche' than anything. Rarely do I ever feel "love" coming from these people. And I know what the love of discipline feels like, so that's not what I'm talking about (I'm not looking for nice fluffy words). I just really don't believe people preach it out of love, but rather some religious rhetoric they read off of some pages in a book.

But if you go by the very law f that book, you have to treat homosexuality just like anything else. "The letter kills, but the Spirit brings life." I have heard more derogatory terms thrown around this subject than any other sin. It just doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[Fire-7]

-- I have found that to be incorrect.
I have spoken with a number of homosexuals began resisting their homosexuality from a very early age because family, environment, society, standards, etc. dictated to them from birth that heterosexuality is the way a person should be.

My own nephew knew of his homosexual leanings before he was even a teenager. He kept it from his family because he knew how they felt about homosexuality as per the church, etc. He stated his own father always had a long litany of "gay jokes" so he felt it best not to wreck things until he was on his own in college.

If what you said was true, this would not happen for anyone within that community.

Exaclty... thank you for clarifying that

As a homosexual male, people can tell me all day long that I wasn't born this way, but what they're saying means nothing to me, because I know how natural my sexuality comes to me. To say that you can't be born homosexual is the same as saying you can't be born heterosexual.

Research even supports the idea that every human being is born inherently bisexual, which I am more inclined to believe than anything. I won't go through all of the reasons why I believe this because I would be here all night. But look it up if you really want to know the truth on the subject. People are most likely born bisexual, with attraction more toward one sex than the other. Have you ever wondered why a heterosexual man can watch porngraphy and be aroused by the image of both sexes? or why people masterbate? Masterbation, regardless of your gender or sexual orinetation (or "label") is a homosexual act in and of itself. And look at the hundreds of species in the animal kingdom that have homosexual members...

I don't feel like arguing tonight, so I'm not going to go into elaborate detail, but there are so many evidences that point to the reality that sexual orientation is inherent, that a person would have to resort to denial or defensiveness, in the face of it.

People jut love to feel like they are better than the next man, so any theology that will support the agenda of prejudice, they will throw it up in your face whenever you confront them with facts.

 

[aspen]

I truly believe that most people who preach against homosexuality hate homosexuals. They might say they "love the sinner, hate the sin," but that's more of a cliche' than anything. Rarely do I ever feel "love" coming from these people. And I know what the love of discipline feels like, so that's not what I'm talking about (I'm not looking for nice fluffy words). I just really don't believe people preach it out of love, but rather some religious rhetoric they read off of some pages in a book.

But if you go by the very law f that book, you have to treat homosexuality just like anything else. "The letter kills, but the Spirit brings life." I have heard more derogatory terms thrown around this subject than any other sin. It just doesn't seem fair to me.

Agreed!

 

[FHII]

I remain unmoved. Homosexuality is a sin but covered by grace.

 

[Duckybill]

I remain unmoved. Homosexuality is a sin but covered by grace.

It's only covered by grace for those who repent and forsake the sin.

Proverbs 28:13 (NKJV)
13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

 

[Fire-7]

It's only covered by grace for those who repent and forsake the sin.

Proverbs 28:13 (NKJV)
13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

I don't know you Duckbill, so I can't judge you, but judging by many of the comments and responses of yoursI have read, you come of as being v ery judgemental. Are you sure you're not a member of the Westboro Baptist Church?

But let me ask you, what sins do YOU commit? I know you do something wrong. If you're not wiling to be transparent, then it proves how bigoted you are. Do you always follow the leading of the Spirit? Are you in constant obedience to your Lord? You know that disobedience is a sin, right? And you do know that disobedience will send you to Hell, right? Do you faithfully pay your tithes? According to the vision of Choo Thomas ("Heaven Is So Real"), people who don't pay their tithes are on their way to Hell. Do you forgive everyone? According to the vision of Loretta Blasengame ("Is There Anybody Up There?"), unforgiveness will send you to Hell. Do you witness to everyone you see (other than people over the internet)? According to the Korean artist girl, christians who don't witness are going to Hell. ...There are many things other than homosexuality that will send a person to Hell... according to your religion.

 

[Foreigner]

I don't know you Duckbill, so I can't judge you, but judging by many of the comments and responses of yoursI have read, you come of as being v ery judgemental. Are you sure you're not a member of the Westboro Baptist Church?

But let me ask you, what sins do YOU commit? I know you do something wrong. If you're not wiling to be transparent, then it proves how bigoted you are. Do you always follow the leading of the Spirit? Are you in constant obedience to your Lord? You know that disobedience is a sin, right? And you do know that disobedience will send you to Hell, right? Do you faithfully pay your tithes? According to the vision of Choo Thomas ("Heaven Is So Real"), people who don't pay their tithes are on their way to Hell. Do you forgive everyone? According to the vision of Loretta Blasengame ("Is There Anybody Up There?"), unforgiveness will send you to Hell. Do you witness to everyone you see (other than people over the internet)? According to the Korean artist girl, christians who don't witness are going to Hell. ...There are many things other than homosexuality that will send a person to Hell... according to your religion.

-- Fire-7, please do us all a favor and get a grip.

Ducky's response to FHII was not only measured and non-confrontational, but spot on scripturally accurate

The only way sin - ANY sin - is covered by Grace, is when that person is willing to repent and turn away from that sin.

There was nothing in that statement to warrant a response like you posted.

Your bipolar response where you say "I don't know you so I can't judge you" followed shorty by "If you're not willing to be transparent it shows how bigoted you are" shows a complete lack of reason.

Please grow up.