How Are Sinners Made

[soul man]

the separation is all in Adam's mind i guess, it is all his perception
he even thought he could hide from God, right, and preachers are quick to tell us that God is somehow required to hide His Face from sinners too, huh

Yea I get the preacher thing and not buying into man's idea's, that I agree. Just because they have God as an angry God doesn't change the absulutes of scripture. When I have talked with some exchristian's as they claim themselves, they throw everything out because man's translation. You can't do that, the word of God is the only truth humanity has, regardless of translation. They claim the scripture is all myths and there is no god, fools. Man's interpretation of the scriptures is no excuse for them to say it's a myth, the danger of trusting in man, many are ship wrecked.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not all posts are meant to be responded to. Some are just meant to make you think.

ok well i do appreciate it, don't get me wrong ok, it's just that imo what you want me to think v what i think there are maybe not lining up like you might think, what do you think about that? Or maybe i can put this another way,

I can't find "the Fall of Man" in Scripture anywhere, for starters

Sin entered into the world through Adam giving up his spiritual position to Satan by being tricked out of it through disobedience to God...and consequently many angels who also partook of this opportunity for conquest of God's new creation.

The angels who came down to have dominion over mankind are called "the Nephilim". In Hebrew this means "the fallen ones."

did you think i meant that i am so new i just haven't been exposed to...what you posted there yet?
or that i am so out of line that i need a refresher?
either way see how it might be perceived that we are not even really having a conversation here?
so see if you will why i am offended now, whereas if you had started your post with "you are so new you just haven't been exposed to...what i am posting here yet..." or "you are so out of line that you need a refresher;" ok?

Bc as it is right now i can only assume you meant to override my observation with something you consider more pertinent, fine, but then when i state objections to it,

ok ty, i don't agree with much of this wadr

even they are disregarded, see. So i kinda have to ask why are you even talking, um, to me? You already know what a pain i am, right, so how do you expect me to interpret this?

 

[bbyrd009]

Adams situation was alot different than ours. Adam did have the law, not as in the 10 commandments but the command "do not eat." That is what he disobeyed and recieved a new knowledge.

sure, i get you, nothing wrong with that imo, but i would say that there are alt ways to reflect on those truths that do not violate the Spirit, for instance your description there seems to tail quite nicely in a sense with the description we might provide for any toddler, and again for most any pre-pubescent teenager; that is what parents essentially do, tell kids (who have not found the world yet) "do not eat" right?

 

[bbyrd009]

"...Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin."

hmm, interesting that you relate this to...that imo, i just finished a quite revealing study on Pilate--likely a believer--and i'm pretty sure Judas is better perceived as a proxy there, too.

We might reflect upon what Pilate did "against Him" for more here, what did Pilate do against Jesus? Imo Pilate is being absolved there, really

 

[amadeus]

hmm, interesting that you relate this to...that imo, i just finished a quite revealing study on Pilate--likely a believer--and i'm pretty sure Judas is better perceived as a proxy there, too.

We might reflect upon what Pilate did "against Him" for more here, what did Pilate do against Jesus? Imo Pilate is being absolved there, really

Like the natural children of Israel people now often receive from God what they really want, even though they do not understand how painful or harmful or even wrong receiving it might be. I am speaking of church people, of people who gather tightly around their own determined truth [absolute truth] rather than allowing God to lead them. Oh, they will say that God is leading them and perhaps in a measure He is, but how far God will lead someone who insists at certain forks in the road He must go the way they choose?

Did Jesus ever condemn Pilate? Did Pilate condemn himself? Consider in connection with Pilate these words from Jesus:

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" Matt 18:7

Did Pilate commit offences in his treatment of Jesus? If he did what were those offences?

 

[bbyrd009]

Like the natural children of Israel people now often receive from God what they really want, even though they do not understand how painful or harmful or even wrong receiving it might be.

yes, God gives us the desires of our heart, huh? Who does not get what they really want? i would even go so far as to say that the diff in Our Father and our fathers is this one thing, since parents will regulate that kinda stuff. God has given me the desires of my heart, and lets the chips um Fall where they may i guess huh

 

[bbyrd009]

Did Pilate commit offences in his treatment of Jesus? If he did what were those offences?

man, i wasn't planning on even mentioning my study on Pilate, it is so contrary--guess where lol--but here it is coming out anyway. Everything we know about Pilate is wrong too i guess. this got me started on that,

The Caesar of the Roman empire sent his ambassador, Pilate, governor of the Roman province Judea, against Jesus King of the Jews, saying, What I have written, I ENGRAVED IN LAW: JESUS KING OF THE JEWS.

which imo reps what Caesar did, but almost surely not what Pilate did as is assumed, contrary to much Scripture too imo. We are all but told that Pilate is a believer in the text, aren't we?

 

[Enoch111]

ha, me too, although i would have to categorically disagree here, imo no sinners are ever born, they are all made @ the foundation of the world, which we each do ourselves imo. I think i can demonstrate many that are born who never sin also

As usual, you dwell in a world of confusion. Sinners were NOT made "at the foundation of the world". That would be totally absurd, and indeed blasphemous. When God created the universe, everything -- including man -- was perfect.

1. The Bible makes it perfectly clear that it was Adam's disobedience which brought sin and death into the world (Rom 5:12 and following).

2. Had Adam and Eve remained obedient, the entire human race would not have come under this curse.

3. Ever since the Fall, every human being possesses the sin nature [(also called "the flesh" which resides within the soul (also called "the heart")].

4. Other than Jesus of Nazareth, there is no one who was not born a sinner, or sinned. See Romans 3 for details.

 

[amadeus]

man, i wasn't planning on even mentioning my study on Pilate, it is so contrary--guess where lol--but here it is coming out anyway. Everything we know about Pilate is wrong too i guess. this got me started on that,
which imo reps what Caesar did, but almost surely not what Pilate did as is assumed, contrary to much Scripture too imo. We are all but told that Pilate is a believer in the text, aren't we?

Pilate tried hard to not have Jesus crucified. I wonder our well some of our leaders or judges while claiming to have assured their own salvation could resist doing what Pilate ended up doing given the same kind of circumstances?

It appears that Pilate made the right decision for the wrong reasons. It certain was ultimately the right reason even though he was seemingly very unaware of it. Recall here Jesus' prayer:

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

Jesus the man of flesh did not want to suffer the pain which to be his lot. He seemingly knew too well what the "cup" was which he must drink. We see what his Father's will was... and that is the way that it went.

Pontius Pilate was simply trying to save the natural life of a man about whom he knew little. He believed that Jesus was innocent and really worked within limits to avoid the crucifixion of that man. His fight in that direction without the power of the Holy Spirit working in him was probably better than the fights of some we have seen with Holy Spirit [according to them]. Of course, we should not render such a judgment on anyone. It is however food for thought.

Help us dear Lord!

 

[bbyrd009]

Sinners were NOT made "at the foundation of the world"

i mean that in a manner of speaking, and from a young age and several other phrases back me up i think.
i mean this as a way to perceive differently ok, no truth is going to be altered right

there is no one who was not born a sinner

certainly i could show you ppl who are alive right now that do not sin. They would not be a pretty sight, ok, but i can do this if you need me to. It is an est'd concept that the ignorant cannot sin right, and infants do not sin. There is no one who is not born a sinner is a dialectic trap, ok, that you fall into when you try to go Quote it; another "to be absent from the body..." thing see

 

[bbyrd009]

do you have beliefs, or Absolute Truths? Bc there is no judgement for beliefs, see, beliefs are fine, everyone has beliefs, and no one else really cares what anyone else's beliefs really are; there are seven billion different beliefs on the planet right now lol

 

[bbyrd009]

His fight in that direction without the power of the Holy Spirit working in him

!

 

[bbyrd009]

the Authors were not functioning with the reasoning that we all assume everyone uses, too. And it is Scripture that verified this for me, more or less against my will

when eastern v the hegelian dialectic is understood, it leaps off the page at you imo

 

[soul man]

do you have beliefs, or Absolute Truths? Bc there is no judgement for beliefs, see, beliefs are fine, everyone has beliefs, and no one else really cares what anyone else's beliefs really are; there are seven billion different beliefs on the planet right now lol

It's closer to 8 billion

 

[bbyrd009]

It's closer to 8 billion

really? i thought we were still approaching 7? hmm

 

[soul man]

really? i thought we were still approaching 7? hmm

What about the double minded don't that count