How Are Sinners Made

[soul man]

How are sinners made.
We believe that may come about because they sin and are not acceptable to the world. The world takes care of it's own, if you do everything right you are accepted by society. If you mess up then society has in place a system that punishes you. That is the knowledge of good and evil that keeps the world going round.
Point out the fact that is one knowledge not two. So next time you feel like you are living a good Christian life you must realize that is the knowledge of good and evil.
There is two knowledgs that exsists together in this earth. One is the knowledge of good and evil, the other knowledge that exsists is the knowledge of the lord.
His wisdom, His understanding, His life.
I have good news for those that seek to understand the deep things of God. Christ revealed in you is the wisdom of God, as well as all the fruits and personality of the Christ in you.
He is the same as peace, joy, contentment, or any other fruit of the Spirit. It's not something He gives you, that is what He is in you. Did you get that, you will not get the wisdom like king Solomon you think is available to you.
What you get is Christ and in Him is the wisdom of God, as well as all the fruit of the Spirit.

More on that later.

The world thinks a sinner is created by environment, ethnicity, background, or past evils that have happened at one time. Psychology and other studies of humanity have to come up with a reason for sin. The human nature is one reason they say. I understand how they could say such a thing but according to the scripture there is no human nature. There is a sin nature (you can speculate where that came from) or the God nature.
You have one or the other, you have never had a human nature.
The sin nature is what makes a sinner, not sins. A sinner is born a sinner by nature.
The remedy for the world is the cross.

 

[Willie T]

Uh...… they are born. (I like simple statements.)

 

[bbyrd009]

Uh...… they are born. (I like simple statements.)

ha, me too, although i would have to categorically disagree here, imo no sinners are ever born, they are all made @ the foundation of the world, which we each do ourselves imo. I think i can demonstrate many that are born who never sin also

 

[soul man]

ha, me too, although i would have to categorically disagree here, imo no sinners are ever born, they are all made @ the foundation of the world, which we each do ourselves imo

Byrd how do you calculate what happened in the garden?

 

[bbyrd009]

Byrd how do you calculate what happened in the garden?

hmm. We have an ancient, rich mythology for that, that i hesitate to attempt to improve on, but maybe if you asked a couple diff ways or maybe a bit more specific Qs i could take some swipes at it. As to this one it is...just too general for me to understand what it is you are looking for ezackly, but if a pertinent answer comes to me i'll post it. I can't find "the Fall of Man" in Scripture anywhere, for starters

 

[soul man]

, imo no sinners are ever born, they are all made @ the foundation of the world,

Ok fair enough I'll ask this, so sinners were made even before sin entered? Your thoughts

 

[Episkopos]

hmm. We have an ancient, rich mythology for that, that i hesitate to attempt to improve on, but maybe if you asked a couple diff ways or maybe a bit more specific Qs i could take some swipes at it. As to this one it is...just too general for me to understand what it is you are looking for ezackly, but if a pertinent answer comes to me i'll post it. I can't find "the Fall of Man" in Scripture anywhere, for starters

Sin entered into the world through Adam giving up his spiritual position to Satan by being tricked out of it through disobedience to God...and consequently many angels who also partook of this opportunity for conquest of God's new creation.

The angels who came down to have dominion over mankind are called "the Nephilim". In Hebrew this means "the fallen ones."

 

[bbyrd009]

for starters

ha or maybe that isn't the best place to start lol, we should maybe come back to that one, that perception
but some initial observations, A&E are "two that became one" so to speak, so i suggest considering them as one person, namely me, a person with two sides, i am "two men in a bed" or "a field," in other passages

 

[soul man]

ha or maybe that isn't the best place to start lol, we should maybe come back to that one, that perception
but some initial observations, A&E are "two that became one" so to speak, so i suggest considering them as one person, namely me, a person with two sides, i am "two men in a bed" or "a field," in other passages

Haha yep ok, so an allegorical trek through the scriptures, got it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ok fair enough I'll ask this, so sinners were made even before sin entered? Your thoughts

they are all made @ the foundation of the world, which we each do ourselves imo

so iow sin enters when we found the world, and we can see how "found" works either way here i hope? We might also examine those who are born and never found the world too i guess, prolly more would come out then

 

[bbyrd009]

Sin entered into the world through Adam giving up his spiritual position to Satan by being tricked out of it through disobedience to God...and consequently many angels who also partook of this opportunity for conquest of God's new creation.

The angels who came down to have dominion over mankind are called "the Nephilim". In Hebrew this means "the fallen ones."

ok ty, i don't agree with much of this wadr, so i'm not sure what reply i could give to this, um, what is this even, how would you characterize this post you just made? Or i mean where would you like me to interject here, if anywhere?

 

[soul man]

so iow sin enters when we found the world, and we can see how "found" works either way here i hope? We might also examine those who are born and never found the world too i guess, prolly more would come out then

So your not taking the tree into the equation. If not; Adam disobeyed but had no sin before that? I have a good buddy that spiritualizes everything which we disagree, is that where you are going with this?

 

[bbyrd009]

Haha yep ok, so an allegorical trek through the scriptures, got it.

hey, i read Historical Non-fiction in Scripture for years, myself, i don't mean to say that that is useless or anything

 

[soul man]

hey, i read Historical Non-fiction in Scripture for years, myself, i don't mean to say that that is useless or anything

Lol ok you win, I concede

 

[Episkopos]

ok ty, i don't agree with much of this wadr, so i'm not sure what reply i could give to this, um, what is this even, how would you characterize this post you just made? Or i mean where would you like me to interject here, if anywhere?

Not all posts are meant to be responded to. Some are just meant to make you think.

 

[bbyrd009]

So your not taking the tree into the equation. If not; Adam disobeyed but had no sin before that? I have a good buddy that spiritualizes everything which we disagree, is that where you are going with this?

ha, i honestly can't say, as "spiritualize" is kind of really a subjective definition? So for that i goto how we reason, how we are taught to reason? which of course we all assume that everyone is taught to reason just like we are, right, but i find that this is not true, and furthermore i have become convinced that the Authors were not functioning with the reasoning that we all assume everyone uses, too. And it is Scripture that verified this for me, more or less against my will

 

[bbyrd009]

So your not taking the tree into the equation.

you might be right, but you would have to expand here a little for me to get where you mean to go here wadr

If not; Adam disobeyed but had no sin before that?

i would say that Adam could not have been disobeying pre-tree simply bc those who do not have the law cannot have any sin imputed to them, just like we do with babies and other "ignorant" animals right now? So see how i'm not getting the "not taking the tree into account" thing, i hope.

Or yes, Adam disobeyed in the same manner that anyone ignorant is forgiven for disobeying, up to and including eating the fruit of the tree, wherein we can see that that did not separate him from God at all, right, God still found him no probs, God was not like holding up a shield to protect Himself from seeing sin, or any of that

 

[soul man]

bc those who do not have the law cannot have any sin imputed to them

Adams situation was alot different than ours. Adam did have the law, not as in the 10 commandments but the command "do not eat." That is what he disobeyed and recieved a new knowledge.

 

[bbyrd009]

the separation is all in Adam's mind i guess, it is all his perception
he even thought he could hide from God, right, and preachers are quick to tell us that God is somehow required to hide His Face from sinners too, huh

Lol ok you win, I concede

i'm not quite sure what i won, or what you are conceding here, not meaning to be obtuse though, sorry

 

[amadeus]

hey, i read Historical Non-fiction in Scripture for years, myself,

We all probably do this [read historical non-fiction], whether we admit it or understand even what it is that we are doing. The scripture contains, I believe, God's messages [Plural?] to men, but for the most part few know how to receive [understand?] it. The reason so many disagree on what the message is I suppose is that they all start at different places depending upon who they have heard and what their own purpose is reading it.


With a clean slate is the best place to start, but it easier to say it that than to do it... as I myself have found. We need t God's help but most people act as if God cannot do anything right without their help. Consider the churches where only those with the permission of the local powers [whoever or whatever they are] are able to speak or preach or teach or sing or testify … and then only in the time frames allowed by those powers. This brings to mind these words of Jesus to Pontius Pilate:


"...Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." John 19:11

i don't mean to say that that is useless or anything

No, the scripture is not useless, but without the quickening of the Spirit, it is dead. How useful are dead things? You don't need to answer that...