How Christianity was the catalyst of the Holocaust:

[Sir Knight]

Adstar, Please clarify for me ... where do you get your knowledge of the testings of Christ? Is it not from the Bible? The bible, which history tells us was assembled by the CATHOLIC Church in the late fourth century. If you believe that their teachings are incorrect, why would you base your faith on a document that they produced? I fail to see the logic here. Would you be kind enough to clarify it?

 

[Sir Knight]

It is clear that i was not referring to the end of the Church. Anyone with reasoned mind will see i was talking about the finished building of the doctrines and guidance of the church. Peter By the end of His life had finished building the church in the sense of doctrine in the sense of Gospel teaching.It is a disgrace that i have to reply to your obvious twisting of the meaning of my words. It seems you interpret my words as well as the catholic church interprets the scriptures.

Given the fact that the bible warns against the private interpretation of scripture' date=' who's interpretation should we follow if not of the Church that originally assembled the bible?

I did not deny Peter's Leadership at the time of His life. Here again you twist the meaning of my Words in a cheap and unchristianly tactic of debate. The Gospels stance is that Peter was the Leader who would establish the Church. I believe this. This discussion is not about the leadership of Peter it is about the transferability of that leadership. I have already shown that the verse quotes you gave as justification for this false doctrine had nothing to do with the topic to which you falsely claimed they where about. The truth of the Gospel stands. The catholic church cannot fool those who are well read in scriptures. And it was this very reason they sought to prevent the Word of God being read for centuries.

You are either ignorant of history or intentionally trying to twist things around. It was the Catholic Church that PRESERVED the Bible over the centuries. Catholic Monks devoted their entire lives to writing by hand new copies of the bible -- thus making each copy extremely valuable because a monk devoted his entire life to producing it. That is why they were held in the hands of the Church only.

Sin does not cause us to fall from grace. Jesus came to save Sinners and we are forgiven all our sins both past and future because we trust in the atoning sacrifice of the Messiah Jesus for our forgiveness.

Really? Our future sins too? Would you be kind enough to explain Hebrews 10:26-27 ...

For if we go on sinning deliberately AFTER receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.​

If they are all guided by the Holy Spirit, why is there disagreement on doctrine to the extent that they have splintered into THOUSANDS of different denominations? There is one Spirit, one Truth. Not 25,000+ truths. Do the math! If the Catholic Church isn't the true Church and it is one of the Protestant Churches, then only one of them can be correct and 24,999+ of them are wrong. Tell me, which is the Church that contains the correct teaching?And before you answer, remember that the NT descibres a Church that has a visible Hierarchical structure. Additionally, the bible also says that this Church would exist for all generations -- those two elements EXCLUDES EVERY Protestant Church!

 

[soulja boy]

This also goes to show that you didn't bother to read my post.

Or is it a case of you don't want to know the truth? FYI I read every word in your post.

Yes, I can see from all the Scripture that you provided

What can you see?

STILL both St. Luke and St. Paul never came out and bragged that they were a saint.

Now I am going to ask you did you read my post. Paul said he was the least of the saints.

When they used the word "saint," (which is translated to mean "holy") they always used it in the plural tense rather than referring it ONLY to themselves.

Precisely, that is what the scriptures say, so when were they cannonised, who by and what miracles did they do?

How easy it is for you to say that YOU are holy. Well, my brother, I will say this for you. You are correct, YOU are indeed holy as you say.

In a previous post you said I wasn't. You can't have it both ways, my dear.

And yes, I agree with you that your church is indeed full of holy, righteous, and just people just as you say. As for me. my dear brother, I am a sinner. You and your church is better than I am because I am a sinner.

Last time it was no different to the roman church.

Oh, look at that! I just love this Scripture that you provided! As anyone can see, St. Paul says that he is "less than the least of all saints." And you asked "who cannonized him?

Well, who did? and while your at it who cannonised all the other saints in the verses I quoted. You haven't answered that one yet. And can you see the pope say he less than the least of all the saints. Pigs might fly.

 

[soulja boy]

Please clarify for me ... where do you get your knowledge of the testings of Christ? Is it not from the Bible? The bible, which history tells us was assembled by the CATHOLIC Church in the late fourth century. If you believe that their teachings are incorrect, why would you base your faith on a document that they produced? I fail to see the logic here. Would you be kind enough to clarify it?

Adstar, I don't want to steal your thunder as you are doing a very good job, but I have to say in response to this statement and you might add further to it, who assembled the bible is totally irrelevant. Who wrote it is what makes the bible what it is. The bible is its own best commentary and it says that it was written by men as the Holy Spirit inspired them. So the originator of the bible was the Holy Spirit, not the RC church so it is quite incorrect to say that they produced it. If the RC church is as white as the driven snow as we are led to believe why is it that they do so many things contrary to the word of God. Just to name a few calling their priests father; men dressing up in women's clothes; indulgences to obtain your salvation; you have to earn your salvation; celibate priests; graven images; mass; transubstantiation; the priest is always right which allows them to molest boys; the pope; cardinals; confessional box; rosaries; praying to saints plus a few hundred more.Why on earth would we want to abandon a grace filled and obtained salvation through Christ for one that you have to earn and at the end of the day it might not happen. Not logical dear friend, not logical.

 

[soulja boy]

If they are all guided by the Holy Spirit, why is there disagreement on doctrine to the extent that they have splintered into THOUSANDS of different denominations?

If the RC church is guided by the Holy Spirit, why has it ignored so much of scripture and invented so many things contrary to scripture?And of course we won't talk about all the splinters in the RC church.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

What's interesting in thinking of "Christianity" and Nazism,, There's something that's shared as truth between the two. Conspiracy of the NWO. The Original Conspiracies were largely "invented" by people who were pretty much racist, and more specificaly racist against Jews. Most of the Original theories of the NWO, and world banks were that the Jews controled the banks, and in an atempt to bring about their "Zionist ideals" they are responsible for the NWO. Hitler used these same tactics when talking to the German people, and many militia groups and various racist groups ranging from Black Panthers all the way to the KKK. Now, it seems these same things have blead over to Christianity in the form of the NWO, instead of Jews, it's the Illuminati, or Masons, or Lucifarians, or Evil Corporate Giants. Nothings changed except the names of those creating this NWO. It's odd that some politicians imply and even state directly pressing for a NWO, and we have the EU. Hitler did use Christians at first. But, after full power, He stamped it out. Nazi soldiers were ordered to take down all crosses and religious symbols. None in church none outside of church none in homes etc etc,,, Many Christians were along with the Jews in the camps and being murdered. That's a little part of History that isn't given very often, or even known. At the beginning Christianity was acceptable, but later wasn't. After a short time most Germans were claiming Atheist, more specificaly Nazi. Hedonism was pretty rampant and even encouraged by the Nazi Party.

 

[Sir Knight]

Such as?

And of course we won't talk about all the splinters in the RC church.

For nearly two thousand years there has remained only ONE official Catholic doctrine.

 

[Sir Knight]

If the RC church is as white as the driven snow as we are led to believe why is it that they do so many things contrary to the word of God.

Because Jesus said that His Church would be guided in all TRUTH. The bible says that the Church is the defender of the TRUTH. You are confusing Infallibility (teaching without error) with Impeccability (living without sinning) and they are not the same thing. No where does the bible claim' date=' nor has the Catholic Church ever claimed that they are Impeccable.

Just to name a few calling their priests father;

Jesus says in Matt. 23:9, "call no man father." But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests "father." This is an example of "eisegesis" (imposing one's views upon a passage) as opposed to "exegesis" (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father. But in the passage before (Matt. 23:8), Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.

That's a new one. Care to expand on that.

indulgences to obtain your salvation;

Jesus gave the Keys to Heaven to Peter saying that whatever he bound on earth would be bound in heaven.

you have to earn your salvation;

Entirely biblical.

celibate priests;

Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God' date=' those who criticize the Church's practice of celibacy [b']are criticizing God[/b] and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones.

the priest is always right which allows them to molest boys;

Just as Jesus commanded the people to obey the Pharisees even though He called them hypocrites and a brood of vipers telling the people to do as they say but not as they do.

confessional box;

Fulfilling the commandment that Jesus gave to His Apostles to go out and FORGIVE sins. Since He also instructed them that they could either forgive the sin or not forgive the sin and since He did not give them the power to read minds, the confessing of the sins is a logical requirement.

praying to saints

As scripture instructs us to do.

Why would you abandon it, because it is a false teaching that did not exist anywhere in Christianity prior to the reformation. Do you honestly think that those who were thought by either the Apostles or their immediate successors got these important points wrong for over a dozen centuries and then folks reading these teachings on their own a few hundred years ago suddenly got the teaching correct or is it more logically to conclude that those reading it on their own came to the wrong conclusion and those who were taught by the Apostles and their immediate successors got it correct? Which is more LOGICAL?

 

[Diana]

I never said such thing. SHEEZ!!! I said "How easy it is for you to say that you are a saint." Me? I am a sinner. My church teaches humility. It is so obvious that you didn't even read what I posted.

 

[soulja boy]

I never said such thing. SHEEZ!!! I said "How easy it is for you to say that you are a saint." Me? I am a sinner. My church teaches humility. It is so obvious that you didn't even read what I posted.

As I said, I read every word of your post. Your church teaches humility do they. And what's humble about catholics having to kneel before the pope and cardinals and kiss their hand or feet?Jesus said if you want to be great you have to be a servant. A servant doesn't have his hand or feet kissed. He waits on other people's needs. I have never seen a pope do that. Most of the time everyone waits on his needs.

 

[soulja boy]

The bible was not written as one complete work. It was written by MANY human authors and assembled into one work centuries later.

I know, but the originator of it was the Holy Spirit. Without that, it is just a book of words.

Someone had to have th official authority to decide which books were to be included within it's pages and which books were to be excluded from it's pages. History records that it was the Catholic Church which had this authority.

"Nonetheless, full dogmatic articulations of the canon were not made until the Council of Trent of 1546 for Roman Catholicism,[28] the Thirty-Nine Articles of 1563 for the Church of England, the Westminster Confession of Faith of 1647 for British Calvinism, and the Synod of Jerusalem of 1672 for the Greek Orthodox." It appears that the rc church was just one of many.

If you recognize the bible as the Word of God, then you acknowlwge that the Catholic Church indeed had this authority over the Word of God.

No I don't because there is no mention of the rc church in the bible.

 

[soulja boy]

For nearly two thousand years there has remained only ONE official Catholic doctrine.

You mean the one that keeps changing as in priests were allowed to marry then they are not; as in indulgences can buy you salvation now you don't need them; as in John Wycliffe who was martyred because he printed the bible and gave it the common man and Vatican 2 encouraged the common man to read the bible; as in the mass was always in latin but now its not; as in the inquisitions where you were hunted if you didn't convert to rc but now your not; as in the priests had to be celibate but several popes fathered children; as in vows of chastity and priests have molested boys by the thousands. Obviously there are people, right to the top in some cases who don't pay much attention to the one official rc doctrine.

 

[soulja boy]

Because Jesus said that His Church would be guided in all TRUTH.

No it doesn't. It says that the Holy Spirit would guide us INTO all truth. John 16:13 Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. For he will not speak on his own accord, but will speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come.From your interpretation I have to assume that the Holy Spirit told the rc church to conduct the inquisitions.

The bible says that the Church is the defender of the TRUTH.

The word "church" is used 72 times in the NT. Not once does it say that the church is the defender of the truth.

You are confusing Infallibility (teaching without error) with Impeccability (living without sinning) and they are not the same thing. No where does the bible claim, nor has the Catholic Church ever claimed that they are Impeccable.

I am not confusing anything with anything.

 

[soulja boy]

Jesus says in Matt. 23:9, "call no man father." But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests "father." This is an example of "eisegesis" (imposing one's views upon a passage) as opposed to "exegesis" (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context).

"And don't call ANYONE on earth 'Father,' for you have only one Father, the one in heaven." Please note ANYONE, not just scribes and pharisees. Sound like you are good at eisegesis.

But in the passage before (Matt. 23:8), Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.

The word teacher is not in this passage. Teacher in greek is "didaskalos". The greek words use 'master' and 'Rabbi' not teacher. If you care to read other scriptures as in Ephesians 4 v 11 you will find that Christ gave five ascension gifts. They were apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd and TEACHER (didaskalos). Don't you think that it is a bit strange that Jesus would give us these gifts and then say you can call a man an apostle or evangelist etc but not a teacher? Not logical, not logical.

 

[soulja boy]

That's a new one. Care to expand on that.

Non its not. It is as old as the hills. Having worked in the Catholic system, I have had plenty of opportunity to observe what goes on. As in the pricipal of one school I taught in was a priest. When they had communion, he put on a white dress.When the pope visited Australia for world youth day, he was wearing a rather elaborate dress. All the cardinals who paraded before him were all in dresses.

 

[soulja boy]

Jesus gave the Keys to Heaven to Peter saying that whatever he bound on earth would be bound in heaven.

And the pope of the day wanted to raise money to build St Peter Basilica so he told his priests to go out and sell indulgences and give the impression that it would help them gain their salvation.

 

[soulja boy]

Entirely biblical.

Don't make me laugh. You are very good at avoiding the truth as these verses show.Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved. (No mention of earing it)Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (to everyone who believes, not earns)Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation. (heart and mouth, no mention of earining)Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, (no mention of earning, just believing) 2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brothers beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, (sanctification and belief. No mention of earning)2Ti 3:15 and that from a babe you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (Holy Scriptures makes you wise to salvation. (No wonder the rc church didn't want people to read the bible and find out you didn't need to buy indulgences)Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, (grace of God not works) 1Pe 1:5 by the power of God, having been kept through faith to a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time; (faith, not works)Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (believe in him, not earn in him) The word salvation appears 45 times in the NT. Not once does it use the word 'earn' in relation to it.

 

[soulja boy]

Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God, those who criticize the Church's practice of celibacy are criticizing God and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones.

The word in this passage is 'eunuchs' which in the greek means a castrated man. Do I take it that all priests are castrated? Apart from the fact that this passage is to do with marriage and divorce. Jesus said ALL men cannot receive what he was teaching. There is no mention at all about priests. Another case of eisegesis. And your attempt to make us feel guilty because we are supposedly criticising God by exposing the error of the rc church doesn't wash with me.

 

[soulja boy]

As were found all over the temple built by Solomon. Scripture records that the temple WITH those graven images was pleasing to God and that God blessed it.

I don't live under the old covenant and doesn't the ten commandments say thou shalt not make a graven image??????And doesn't the New Covenant say that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit1Co 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have of God? And you are not your own, 2Co 6:16 And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." The word 'temple' is in the NT 115 times and not once does it talk about graven images. Another case of eisegeses.

 

[Sir Knight]

bul·wark 1 : a solid structure raised for defense2 : a strong support or protectionA "bulwark" is used to defend/protect. The bible calls the "Church" the PROTECTOR of the truth / the DEFENDER of the truth.

From your interpretation I have to assume that the Holy Spirit told the rc church to conduct the inquisitions.

The Inquisition was conducted by the Spanish Crown. It was official condemned by Rome and may priests and bishops lost their lives trying to oppose it.

I am not confusing anything with anything.

You are clearly ignorant of both scripture & history and it is not my job to educate you. Nor am I going to waste my time correcting the rest of your misinformation.