How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

[Hitch]

I know absolutely for sure the tribulation is 427 days closer than the day this thread started.

And that's a fact

Seriously .... tribulation aside ... the next event to happen is Israel will greatly expand it's borders to the original land God gave Jacob.

The hand of the miraculous will be obvious. Many citizens in the surrounding nations will drop Allah , recognize and serve the God of Israel , and live in peace and safety in the land along with their Israeli cousins.

God does this for His own reasons , and for His Holy Name , not necessarily because Israel deserves it.

That is what is next , and that is a fact.

Sometime afterwards comes the Gog and Magog invasions and the tribulation period.

Interesting. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirt would convict men of sin and draw them to the Father through Christ.

Looks like you have a better plan, too bad you werent there at the beginning.

 

[us2are1]

It's all a trick those of the so-called church of Satan are playing. I suppose their denial of Satan as a real entity against God's Word is a ploy to try and attrack the deceived, making who or what they have believed on sound more acceptable, like you say, with no subtlety at all, but with a direct contradiction of God's Word.




Right.




Cheribum (plural for 'cherub') are real heavenly entities per God's Word...


Gen 3:24
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
(KJV)


Exod 25:17-21
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
(KJV)

That above is about covering cherubs, who's job is to covery the Mercy Seat. That's what the ark of the covenant pattern was derived from, the heavenly order of God's Throne.



Ezek 10:1-6
1 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.
2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight.
3 Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court.
4 Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD's glory.
5 And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh.
6 And it came to pass, that when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels.
(KJV)



What God says through Ezekiel about the "king of Tyrus"...

Ezek 28:13-16
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
(KJV)


Those who claim that is about some flesh king as that "anointed cherub that covereth" must also deny all other Scripture about the heavenly cheribum being heavenly order beings. And those will always look silly with that Scripture denial.

None of those scriptures tell you what a cherub is. What is it that you are imagining? Even Ezekiel didn't know what he was seeing and trying to describe. How is it that you have formed a rock clad doctrine around it?

 

[veteran]

None of those scriptures tell you what a cherub is. What is it that you are imagining? Even Ezekiel didn't know what he was seeing and trying to describe. How is it that you have formed a rock clad doctrine around it?

I'd like to you see you try to imagine those 'cherubim' OUT... of God's Word since they are well written of. Not only that. but God gave israel a pattern of His Heavenly throne in making the ark of the covenant, which He TOLD them to make 2 cherubim on it. So how is it Israel knew what they looked like? Ans: because God showed them, and told them.


Exod 25:19-20
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
(KJV)

This is Bible 101 stuff.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, guys.

It's not that hard to see what a "keruv" ("cherub") is. (And, "k'ruviym" or "cherubim" or "cherubims" in the KJV is the plural form in Hebrew.) All one has to do is look at Ezekiel 1 and 10:

Ezekiel 1:1-13
1:1 In the thirtieth year, on the fifth day of the fourth month, while I was among the exiles by the K’var River, the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. 2 On the fifth day of the month, which was during the fifth year of King Y’hoyakhin’s exile, 3 the word of Adonai came to the cohen Yechezk’el son of Buzi, in the land of the Kasdim by the K’var River; there the hand of Adonai was on him.
4 I looked and saw a windy storm approaching from the north and a huge cloud with flashing fire, glowing brightly all around with the color of gleaming amber from within the fire. 5 Inside, there appeared to be four living creatures that looked like human beings; 6 but each one had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, with feet like calves’ hoofs. They glittered like burnished bronze. 8 Beneath their wings they had human hands on their four sides. The four of them had faces and wings as follows: 9 they touched one another with their wings; they did not turn when they moved, but each one moved straight forward; 10 as for the appearance of their faces, they had human faces [in front], each of the four had a lion’s face on the right, each of the four had a bull’s face on the left, and each of the four had an eagle’s face [toward the rear] — 11 thus their faces. As for their wings, each had two that stretched upward and joined those of others, and two more that covered their bodies. 12 Each [living creature] moved in the direction of any of its faces; in whichever direction the spirit wanted to go, they went, without turning as they moved — 13 thus the appearance of the living creatures.
CJB

Ezekiel 10:1-14
10:1 Then I looked, and suddenly, on the dome over the heads of the k’ruvim, there appeared above them something like sapphire that seemed to take the form of a throne. 2 He spoke to the man clothed in linen; he said, “Go in between the wheels under the k’ruvim, fill both your hands with fiery coals from between the k’ruvim, and throw them on the city.” As I watched, he went. 3 Now the k’ruvim were standing to the right of the house when the man entered, and the cloud filled the inner courtyard. 4 The glory of Adonai rose from above the keruv to the threshold of the house, leaving the house filled with the cloud and the courtyard full of the brilliance of Adonai’s glory. 5 The sound of the wings of the k’ruvim could be heard even in the outer courtyard sounding like the voice of God, Shaddai, when he speaks.
6 When he ordered the man clothed in linen to take fire from between the wheels, from between the k’ruvim, he went in and stood next to a wheel; 7 and a keruv put out his hand from between the k’ruvim into the fire between the k’ruvim, took some of it, and put it in the hands of the one clothed in linen, who took it and went out.
8 Now there appeared among the k’ruvim the form of a man’s hand under their wings. 9 I looked and saw four wheels next to the k’ruvim, one wheel next to one keruv and another wheel next to another keruv: the wheels had the color of beryl. 10 Their shape was the same for all four, like a wheel inside a wheel. 11 When they moved, they could go in any of the four directions without turning as they moved; rather, wherever the head looked, they followed without turning as they moved. 12 Their whole bodies, including their backs, hands and wings, and also the wheels, were full of eyes all around — even the wheels of the four k’ruvim. 13 As for the wheels, I heard them called “the wheel apparatus.” 14 Every one [of the k’ruvim] had four faces: the first face was the face of a keruv, the second face was the face of a man, the third the face of a lion and the fourth the face of an eagle.
CJB

By just comparing the faces in 1:10 to those in 10:14, which of the four faces in 1:10 equates to the "face of a keruv?"

 

[veteran]

But that just don't fit with those of a carnal mind that think God's Kingdom has already manifested today.

 

[tgwprophet]

Ok, as far as the Beast being given power to say haughty things for 42 months in Revelation ch 13:5, This in no way limits Tribulations to 42 months. When Satan overtakes the physical body of "the" Anti-christ (the one which will have an image made after him) Then Satan will edify that body with his beauty including the "beauty" of his tongue. From that time until Armageddon is 42 months. However counting backward from that time is also 42 months from the Abomination of Desolation to the setting of the corner stone of the temple - which begins Tribulations. Thus arriving at 7 years. So the first 42 months he utters meek things, sissy things things that climb on rocks, blue things, liquid things, even things with chicken pox. - this is how much I think it qualifies as defining the time span of Tribulations...

Revelation 13:5 has no qualifier that limits Tribulations to 3 1/2 years... none

Setting the corner stone begins Tribulations. It is also when the woman bearring the Christ child delivers and when Satan is cast out of Heaven. 42 months later the Abomination of Desolation takes place which happens after the temple is built and after the inner-sanctum is built. For the bomination of Desolation is committed when an unclean thing enters or is taken into the inner-sanctum. AT that time Satan glorifies the body he took from "the" anti-christ and then calls himself the messiah. This means Satan is the false messiah and the anti-christ is not him but rather that person whose body he now possesses and then he has an image of the beast made and gives it life... the life of the anti-christ/beast. THEN for 42 months he - Satan - will speak those things described in Revelation ch 13:5 - for a period of 42 months.... add th4em... 7 years of Tribulation.

 

[veteran]

Where does Scripture say Satan will take over the Antichrist's flesh body?

 

[tgwprophet]

This idea i accomplished by deduction. Satan has an image made of the beast with the mortal wound... this is scriptual.and he (Satan) gives this imae life... also scriptual. So where does he get the life he gives to this beast's image? Of course.... from the beast. Why else would the image be made of this beast? Ok so now. why does beast need a body if the beast had not given his body to Satan to possess? Why would there be "2" beasts with the mortal wound? Where does Satan get this life he gives to the image than is the image of the beast, unless it is the beast?

Why would Satan inhabit the body of the beast? Simple, because he needs a body and at the Abomination of Desolation Satan edifies this body with his beauty. Satan's beauty is such that the world marvels after him. Satan is cast out of Heaven at roughly the time Tribulations commences, but does not reveal his beauty until the cerimony in which commits the Abomination of Desolation.

It is the beast's body that enters the inner sanctum. Satan "most likely" took the body of the beast when the mortal wound ocurred and this leaves the wounded beast without a body... until an image is made of him is made and Satan gives it the life of thee beast.

Entering the inner sanctum which commits the Abomination of desolation, and is a cerimony in which Satan dons his beauty. Certainly Satan wwould not desire to share a body for a time.Satan arrives on earth when he is cast out of Heaven. For Satan to acquire fame means he must have a history on earth. the beast provides that history. Because the beast is mortally wounded and is healed... he achieves fame. Because the beast has a history, no one will suspect he is Satan, when Satan takes over the beast's body. Achieving instant fame with no background would be impossible, but taking the body of someone who already has world fame,. makes this very easy.

Satan born as a child? Who exactly would Satan allow to raise him? Raising him woud entail discipline... surely Satan would not tolerate that. even withou discipline would Satan desire having someone human with human mistakes being done for or to Satan? The one who considrs himself perfect surely would not desire to have im-perfect ones teending him. Satanis cast out of Heaven just prior to Tribulations so there is not enough time for him to develop maturity in body.

All of these reasonings were tools I used to discover continuity in Satan's power position.
I know i have been redundant but iwanted to show much of the information from diverse vantage points.

Below is a copy of a hyper-text Revelation time-line calendar I deveeloped roughly 20 years ago. This is a picture not the hyper-text version.

 

[veteran]

This idea i accomplished by deduction. Satan has an image made of the beast with the mortal wound... this is scriptual.and he (Satan) gives this imae life... also scriptual. So where does he get the life he gives to this beast's image? Of course.... from the beast. Why else would the image be made of this beast? Ok so now. why does beast need a body if the beast had not given his body to Satan to possess? Why would there be "2" beasts with the mortal wound? Where does Satan get this life he gives to the image than is the image of the beast, unless it is the beast?

The deadly wound is actually upon one of the 'seven heads', not upon the "another beast" Antichrist entity.

Rev 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
(KJV)

It might be the translation of pronouns from the Greek like 'his' there that's throwing you. The "heads" are actually about the "seven heads" of the first beast, a kingdom, per Rev.13:1-2. The way that "his" applies, is that the first beast kingdom belongs to the second beast; it's his kingdom, like ownership. Doesn't mean those heads are the person of Rev.13:11 the dragon.

Rev 13:12
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
(KJV)

Rev.17:9 reveals the "seven heads" are "seven mountains", i.e., areas of powers. Doesn't tell us when that deadly wound will happen, nor which one of the "seven heads" it is upon. Been a lot of speculation in the past over where that is.

Why would Satan inhabit the body of the beast? Simple, because he needs a body and at the Abomination of Desolation Satan edifies this body with his beauty. Satan's beauty is such that the world marvels after him. Satan is cast out of Heaven at roughly the time Tribulations commences, but does not reveal his beauty until the cerimony in which commits the Abomination of Desolation.

Sorry, but that's an assumption by men, it's not actually written. Because of how Satan has worked deception through men in the past is mostly what that assumption is based on, even with our Lord rebuking Satan with what Peter said in Matt.16. Our Lord Jesus said the following about Satan just prior to His being delivered up to be crucified...

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
(KJV)

Our Lord is saying He would not talk much with His disciples after His crucifixion and resurrection. He did appear to them for 40 days after His resurrection, but then ascended to The Father. So our Lord Jesus gave that "for the prince of this world cometh" in the future tense, for after His ascension.

In Rev.12:7-17, our Lord Jesus showed us about that future event when Satan, that old serpent, the devil, will be cast down out of Heaven to this earth with his angels, and then go after the symbolic 'woman' (Israel, both literal and spiritual Israel). With example our Lord gave, there was no requirement that they simply inhabit flesh people's bodies. Demonic possession has already been going on, but this casting out will be different.

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran wrote: Where does Scripture say Satan will take over the Antichrist's flesh body?

It is just as much if not more of an assumption to think this mortal head wound is not a wound on a mortal head.... it is. The leader is one of the "heads" of a "combined non-physical - such as animl - beast, and the leader is a singluar human person. Making it out to be some non-life form thing such as the world trade center buildings catrophy could be attempted, but consider that its destruction did not stop commerse and there was no "wonder" as it was healed. I used the trade centers destruction because of the impact one would have expected from that event. Is there another bulding or tein buildings that could be destroyed in an instant with as much impact? - nope.

Ok so the 7 heads are the seven hills? So one of these mounds of dirt and stone is going to be bombed and its defacing will cause the world to show reverence when it is resodded? Thats a working model? Then Satan will have an image of this mound of earth made and give it life? For if that mound use to be a dump site at one time...then we could viably see it trash talking, huh. I do not believe you think this in the least Veteran. I wrote this as an point of humor, but also that you may understand the depth I emerge myself in when considering opotions of understanding in building a working model - from the superficial on down to the very bottom.

Yet the world will give fame.. and wonderment at the healing of this wound... that is because it is a human wounded and then healed. And the wonderment will be noting like the reverence of a new building or the patching of an existing building. Do you actually think that a machine or building or institution could be "wounded" and Satan would have the people make an "image" of this building, machine or instittution that has the wound and give it " life " ???

Without Satan taking over the body of the beast, there is no need to have an imageof the beast made. Unless, the beast died. Lets consider this... The beast is wounded then healed and the world marvels fter the beast ecause of the wound..then he dies??? lol too funny. Now AFTER he dies Satan has an image made of this beast thatwas healed but... soon after... died and the world will continue to marvel after the beast??? again too funny. does not work. For no one in their right mind would think the beast was really healed then and so the marvel is left void.

Now, the beast is healed... a physical person... and the world marvels after this beast.... then at the abomination of desolation the scars of the wound are removed... the beast is edified with the beauty of Satan because he is SATAN and so now, the beast needs a body... welcome to the image of the beast being given life... and guess what? The marveling of the world is now on SATAN for all the reasons the beast was marveled plus all the beauty Satan put on the body of the beast whose body he took. assumption? i think not. instead...working model!

Like the " rapture " How will Satan explain it? If the world understands this rapture and they did not go... will they not know who Satan is then? Many who claim to be Christian will not go andso be against God... Why is that? Why would they not seek God even more fervently? Why would they not recognize Satan as Satan then? Surely Satan could claim God has departed from them but,,, that would mean choose Satan? Personlly I would want to kill Satan that Jesus could return. What if Satan has a different idea and claims the rapture? The people would not be mad at him.. for he would say.. they are with him... preparing to build eternity. He could simply say those people needed to go at that time and others will follow in their time. He can continue this right up until he denounces God.

Of course if you do not believe in the rature, then you must believe there will be allot of people that end up in hell simply because it was not available fr them to deny taking the mark of the beast. They were too crippled, too old, in a coma, in prison, too weak, too dumb, giving birth in a hospital, too family oriented to deny their children food, in the wrong place at the worng time, they suffered a life threatening injury and needed emergency treatment but could not get it without taking the mark and the injury was life-threatening .... Obama's health care plan already makes provisions for a mark. I expect the eldely, those in service, those in prison those on welfare, those who work for government agencies and offices, to all be the first to enjoy the implementation of this mark, but i also expect the higher ups of government to exclude them selves. gosh this list could be oh so long.

Note also... one can use "google wallet" to allow them to use their phone for pay for their desires. One can join certain programs that allow you to use just " your name " or your phone number as well. My advice.... don't do it! i seen this demon-strated on the news just the other day and the businesses already had this ability! Home Depot was one of the businesses.

Here is a question... Who (mortal humans) can cite (not re-cite) scripture during these times, scripture that does not add nor take away from scripture but yet...is scripture that has yet to be recorded and has no worries about comdemnation?

How close is Tribulation? in my lifetime I am 56 - and I am in pretty bad health and with that, this is not a guess.

 

[veteran]

Veteran wrote: Where does Scripture say Satan will take over the Antichrist's flesh body?

It is just as much if not more of an assumption to think this mortal head wound is not a wound on a mortal head.... it is. The leader is one of the "heads" of a "combined non-physical - such as animl - beast, and the leader is a singluar human person. Making it out to be some non-life form thing such as the world trade center buildings catrophy could be attempted, but consider that its destruction did not stop commerse and there was no "wonder" as it was healed. I used the trade centers destruction because of the impact one would have expected from that event. Is there another bulding or tein buildings that could be destroyed in an instant with as much impact? - nope.

Ok so the 7 heads are the seven hills? So one of these mounds of dirt and stone is going to be bombed and its defacing will cause the world to show reverence when it is resodded? Thats a working model? Then Satan will have an image of this mound of earth made and give it life? For if that mound use to be a dump site at one time...then we could viably see it trash talking, huh. I do not believe you think this in the least Veteran. I wrote this as an point of humor, but also that you may understand the depth I emerge myself in when considering opotions of understanding in building a working model - from the superficial on down to the very bottom.

Yet the world will give fame.. and wonderment at the healing of this wound... that is because it is a human wounded and then healed. And the wonderment will be noting like the reverence of a new building or the patching of an existing building. Do you actually think that a machine or building or institution could be "wounded" and Satan would have the people make an "image" of this building, machine or instittution that has the wound and give it " life " ???

Without Satan taking over the body of the beast, there is no need to have an imageof the beast made. Unless, the beast died. Lets consider this... The beast is wounded then healed and the world marvels fter the beast ecause of the wound..then he dies??? lol too funny. Now AFTER he dies Satan has an image made of this beast thatwas healed but... soon after... died and the world will continue to marvel after the beast??? again too funny. does not work. For no one in their right mind would think the beast was really healed then and so the marvel is left void.

Now, the beast is healed... a physical person... and the world marvels after this beast.... then at the abomination of desolation the scars of the wound are removed... the beast is edified with the beauty of Satan because he is SATAN and so now, the beast needs a body... welcome to the image of the beast being given life... and guess what? The marveling of the world is now on SATAN for all the reasons the beast was marveled plus all the beauty Satan put on the body of the beast whose body he took. assumption? i think not. instead...working model!

Like the " rapture " How will Satan explain it? If the world understands this rapture and they did not go... will they not know who Satan is then? Many who claim to be Christian will not go andso be against God... Why is that? Why would they not seek God even more fervently? Why would they not recognize Satan as Satan then? Surely Satan could claim God has departed from them but,,, that would mean choose Satan? Personlly I would want to kill Satan that Jesus could return. What if Satan has a different idea and claims the rapture? The people would not be mad at him.. for he would say.. they are with him... preparing to build eternity. He could simply say those people needed to go at that time and others will follow in their time. He can continue this right up until he denounces God.

Of course if you do not believe in the rature, then you must believe there will be allot of people that end up in hell simply because it was not available fr them to deny taking the mark of the beast. They were too crippled, too old, in a coma, in prison, too weak, too dumb, giving birth in a hospital, too family oriented to deny their children food, in the wrong place at the worng time, they suffered a life threatening injury and needed emergency treatment but could not get it without taking the mark and the injury was life-threatening .... Obama's health care plan already makes provisions for a mark. I expect the eldely, those in service, those in prison those on welfare, those who work for government agencies and offices, to all be the first to enjoy the implementation of this mark, but i also expect the higher ups of government to exclude them selves. gosh this list could be oh so long.

Note also... one can use "google wallet" to allow them to use their phone for pay for their desires. One can join certain programs that allow you to use just " your name " or your phone number as well. My advice.... don't do it! i seen this demon-strated on the news just the other day and the businesses already had this ability! Home Depot was one of the businesses.

Here is a question... Who (mortal humans) can cite (not re-cite) scripture during these times, scripture that does not add nor take away from scripture but yet...is scripture that has yet to be recorded and has no worries about comdemnation?

How close is Tribulation? in my lifetime I am 56 - and I am in pretty bad health and with that, this is not a guess.

Look deeper, like back at Rev.12:3-4. In relation to Satan's original rebellion of old when he first drew a third of the stars (angels) into rebellion with him, a beast kingdom with ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns was given for that timeframe. Notice that first one he rebelled with back then only had 7 crowns. The one of Rev.13:1 is to have 10 crowns. So, if that "seven heads" idea existed back then, and the future one of Rev.13:1 "seven heads" follows that same pattern, then what is it?

What I'm saying is that since our Lord linked that beast kingdom layout of old when Satan first rebelled to the final beast kingdom in the last days of Rev.13:1, then that narrows the meaning of what the "seven heads" are, i.e., it has to match the pattern of those first "seven heads" back in Rev.12:3-4 that were of old. This may sound absolutely new to a lot of folks here concerning that beast kingdom of Rev.12:3-4, because it's easy to miss the difference with the timing it's given with, and that it had only seven crowns instead of ten. Reason is because it's difficult for many to understand what happened on earth with Satan's original rebellion of old in relation to the idea of kingdoms on earth, and the Rev.13:1 beast kingdom for the end.

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran wrote:

" What I'm saying is that since our Lord linked that beast kingdom layout of old when Satan first rebelled to the final beast kingdom in the last days of Rev.13:1, then that narrows the meaning of what the "seven heads" are, i.e., it has to match the pattern of those first "seven heads" back in Rev.12:3-4 that were of old. "

what i have issue with is the " of old " and i see no qualifier meaning that already happened ... in ancient times or in recent times.

 

[veteran]

Veteran wrote:

" What I'm saying is that since our Lord linked that beast kingdom layout of old when Satan first rebelled to the final beast kingdom in the last days of Rev.13:1, then that narrows the meaning of what the "seven heads" are, i.e., it has to match the pattern of those first "seven heads" back in Rev.12:3-4 that were of old. "

what i have issue with is the " of old " and i see no qualifier meaning that already happened ... in ancient times or in recent times.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
(KJV)

That part in red was about Satan's first rebellion when he drew a third of the angels ("stars") to the earth. Per the Rev.12:9 verse the "dragon" is simply another one of Satan's many titles. So if you don't understand that, then you won't understand about the beast that has ten crowns per the next Rev.13 chapter.

 

[tgwprophet]

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
(KJV)

.....and the part in red is events yet to be fulfilled.... my proof... had 1/3... 1/16th... or even one single star hit earth...earth would not be here at all. A star becomes a star because of its mass. The weight becomes so heavy that heat is generated, enough heat to cause that mass to burn. The heat genrated becasue of a start entering our atmosphere is of no consequence compared to the heat of a sar and so the star would not burn up... let alone 1/3 the stars of heaven hitting earth. A star of that size hitting the earth would utterly destroy it. Now to consider 1/3 of the stars of heaven being given as a discription by a prophet seeing a vision without the words to describe it... ceratinly what was shown during Persian Gulf I one could have been given that description by a prophet. So that could have been when Satan was cast down and he could be waiting for the woman to give birth that he may devour the child or there could be another campaign even larger than Pesian Gulf I on the horizon. We must wait and see...if we are attentive.

 

[veteran]

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
(KJV)

.....and the part in red is events yet to be fulfilled.... my proof... had 1/3... 1/16th... or even one single star hit earth...earth would not be here at all. A star becomes a star because of its mass. The weight becomes so heavy that heat is generated, enough heat to cause that mass to burn. The heat genrated becasue of a start entering our atmosphere is of no consequence compared to the heat of a sar and so the star would not burn up... let alone 1/3 the stars of heaven hitting earth. A star of that size hitting the earth would utterly destroy it. Now to consider 1/3 of the stars of heaven being given as a discription by a prophet seeing a vision without the words to describe it... ceratinly what was shown during Persian Gulf I one could have been given that description by a prophet. So that could have been when Satan was cast down and he could be waiting for the woman to give birth that he may devour the child or there could be another campaign even larger than Pesian Gulf I on the horizon. We must wait and see...if we are attentive.

The "stars" meaning there is associated with Satan's original fall from Heaven.

There's more than one meaning applied to the idea of stars in God's Word. In that Rev.12:3-4 example those "stars" represent the 1/3 of angels that rebelled with Satan in the beginning. Our Lord Jesus Himself is the Bright and Morning Star (Rev.22), so how do you account for that? Is our Lord Jesus a literal 'star' out in the galaxy somewhere, which is made up of material mass?


Gen 37:9-11
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.
(KJV)

How is it that per Joseph's dream, those eleven stars represent His eleven brothers of the sons of Jacob, and Jacob as the sun, and his wife as the moon?


Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
(KJV)

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
(KJV)

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran wrote:
" The "stars" meaning there is associated with Satan's original fall from Heaven.

Our Lord Jesus Himself is the Bright and Morning Star "

Your are drawing a conclusion here that the stars are no more than symbolic, or are of the arch-angels, but in scripture it is not clear, one must assume your contention. I saw how close to the bone your contention is, but I continue to assume nothing.
I do not remember where in scripture it ontends Jesus is the morning star.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

I guess I'm a mid tribulation raptur...ist. I think we haven't hit the within 1 generation (40 year mark) yet. However I do believe it will be within my lifetime. My mid tribulation view is different than most.

 

[tgwprophet]

hI martinlawrencescott As a mid-tribber I assure you there is no need for a rapture after the war... armageddon.... is over. To be spared the wrath of tribulation does not require a rapture pre-trib as the first half of tribulation is not a time of wrath. Wrath commences after an image of the beast is made and given life....as it is this image that makes the mark of the beast manditory. And this image is made after the Abomination of Desolation. At the time of the Abomination of Desolation the Gentiles are kicked out of Israel and had been in the courtyard for 42 months starting when the corner stone was set. But when Satan emerges from the inner-sanctum and declares himself messiah... the Jews kick him out and the rest of the Gentiles too, but not before he has killed the two witnesses...

 

[martinlawrencescott]

Ya, that's pretty much what I was thinking, though I haven't studied the abomination of desolation as much as I would like yet. What event do you think triggers the last 40ish year period before the tribulation? It seems there isn't a long enough season of preparation if Christians aren't aware before the 7 year tribulation starts. I assumed it was a peace treaty between Israel and the beast. I wouldn't mind clarification on your thoughts. I guess I also don't consider the rapture meaning being caught up into the air, though that maybe being the last part. But the rapture meaning the martyrdom of the church before the catching up with Christ. I guess looking at the parable of the foolish virgins, the passages in 1 Corinthians and 1 Thessalonians I believe talked about some of that.

 

[veteran]

Veteran wrote:
" The "stars" meaning there is associated with Satan's original fall from Heaven.

Our Lord Jesus Himself is the Bright and Morning Star "

Your are drawing a conclusion here that the stars are no more than symbolic, or are of the arch-angels, but in scripture it is not clear, one must assume your contention. I saw how close to the bone your contention is, but I continue to assume nothing.
I do not remember where in scripture it ontends Jesus is the morning star.

Not at all. I'm showing how they are sometimes 'symbolic' and other times 'literal' in God's Word.

And yeah, the Scriptures ARE very clear on that point. All one need do is 'pay attention' to the context of the subject where they are given!

This kind of understanding in God's Word is ELEMENTARY! How is it that you cannot understand it?


Our Lord Jesus Christ is The True 'Morning Star'! The Hebrew word in Isaiah 14 which the KJV translators replaced with "Lucifer" is actually a pointer to Satan wanting... to be The Morning Star, i.e., his wanting to be The Christ.

As for what Scripture declares our Lord Jesus as The Morning Star, I believe I referenced that verse in a previioius post. If not, it's in Revelation 22, our Lord Jesus saying that specifically.