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How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Joshua David, May 30, 2011.

  1. The seven year tribulation will happen within the next 10 years.

  2. The seven year Tribulation could happen within the next 50 years but will probably not happen within

  3. The seven year Tribulation has already started

  4. The seven year Tribulation will happen, but I don't think it will happen in the next 50 years.

  5. I don't believe in the seven year tribulation.

  1. tgwprophet

    tgwprophet New Member

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    I see no one is up for the challenge, but one did not need to. Hmmmmmmmm......
  2. Brothertom

    Brothertom All for Jesus no matter the cost.

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    On September 26th, 2012, I travelled to Asmara, Eritrea, North Africa: & witnessed the pillars of fire the false prophet witch called down, & soon after I witnessed Osama Bin Laden, the Anti-Christ, risen from the dead....[ twice ] .[ after about a year & a half in the sea...].

    I saw the pillars of fire three times, & Osama Bin Laden twice. I prophesied to them; They would get the world, but not all of it...for there would be a remnant here when Jesus returns, & that Jesus was Lord, & that their end would be the Lake of Fire.

    I was delivered from their wrath through 4 countries, & 2 U.S. Embassies, yet I was delivered. God was around me, & I knew it not....even into Jerusalem. I could not be hurt.

    If Osama Bin Laden rose from the dead on Sept. 26th, 2012...then the 7 year reign of terror he supervises could have begun. The midway point of the 7 years is 1260 days...& from that date, we have March 9th, 2016...as the beginning of his power, & also the anointing of the two witnesses.

    "The Last Decade 2010 to 2019 | the Math of Eclipses - Five Doves

    "This will make the Total Solar Eclipse of [Mar 9, 2016] the center Focal ... Is this then the year of the revealing of who the Anti-Christ will be?"

  3. afaithfulone4u

    afaithfulone4u New Member

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    What do we think all of the mighty works of God are revealing to us in these last of days before Christ returns? There is not a single tornado, earthquake, hurricane, storm, sunamie, flood, volcano, plague, virus, ruler, war or destruction of a nation etc.... without God's allowing it, just as the plagues of Egypt were the mighty works of God to warn and prove His Sovereignty of the earth.
    The heavens and the earth are being shaken and we are seeing the great falling away of those who claim to have faith in their God.. who are going and standing in line with the lost in fear and for provision's and protection or joining with other religions for prayer as IF their no gods may bring some good fortune their way, all the while praying to the Almighty as if He would join such a circus to perform with no gods of unbelievers.

    Ps 111:7
    7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
  4. Trumpeter

    Trumpeter New Member

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    My peoples, hear the Word of The Living God!... All peoples of the earth, hear the voice of your maker: You have all entered in!... The Day is here, and you have entered in!... THE DAY OF THE LORD!

    Therefore, bow down heavily...

    Fall on your faces, and wail loudly!... CRY OUT!...

    Die to yourselves, and grab hold of The Holy One of Israel,
    And pray that you are counted worthy to escape!

    I lie not!... YOU HAVE ENTERED IN!

    Lo, did I not say to you that your knowledge was useless, and all your thoughts and imaginings were in vain?... For I am The Lord, and I do according to the counsel of My own will.
    For the scholars cry, “FALSE!”, and the Christians plot in vain against My messengers... And the people of Israel walk proudly, exalting themselves by their own knowledge, though they remain ignorant, for the Truth is still hidden from their eyes.
    My own sheep stumble! The whole world falls down and is broken!... When, O peoples, will you cast yourselves down? When will you be humbled? When will you forsake your knowledge and be free?!... I AM THE LORD! EVEN I AM HE! There is no knowledge apart from Me, and there can be no understanding, save it was given you by Mashiach... HE is your Master!

    Have you not felt these pangs, O earth?!
    Have you not recoiled in pain, O heavens?!
    Has not fear grabbed hold of you, O mighty nations?!...


    I am calling all peoples to repent and to turn! My face is turned against you! My shoulders are set! My hand is stretched forward!... WOE! WOE! WOE! TO THOSE WHO DWELL UPON THE EARTH! The fire is kindled!... All flesh shall burn!
    I shall strike the animals, and they shall rage against you! I shall strike the waters, and they shall rise up against you! From bitterness to the raging of the seas, the waters shall oppress you!... Death shall increase quickly!
    I shall strike the mountains, and they shall speak and bring forth a great noise! They shall consume you and bury your cities! I shall strike the heavens, and it shall rain down fire and flooding rain, with a great multitude of hail!
    Lo, even the detestable birds who dwell there shall descend upon you, and torment you seven days! I shall strike the core of the earth, and it shall be shaken! And all manner of plagues shall ascend upon you from beneath!...

    For I am The Lord who reigns!...

    He who laid the foundations!...

    He who formed it and causes to be!...

    Behold, I am also He, who shall bring forth a swift end!

    Excerpt from:
    You Have Entered In
  5. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    They have some good weed in Africa. I know, I've been there twice and smoked it until I couldn't see straight.

    They import some great hashish from Arabia too as well as opium. Been there and did that as well. I remember an excellent spaghetti dinner I ate after that experience. It wasn't the monster in the sky, it was a meal on my plate and I enjoyed it immensely.

    Don't drink the water in Africa, though. Lots of cholera there. Nasty business - last time I was there they were dragging dead bodies out of the harbor.

    As to visions and dreams while in Africa - I've had lots, but I didn't attribute any from God. My pharmacist was divine, though. I'll give him that.

    After all the partying I returned to the USA where I was saved by a ministry from a former junkie. My greatest revelations these days come from the Bible, the Holy Word of God. I've read the Bible many times as well as the Qur'an and don't recall ever seeing Osama bin Ladan mentioned in either book.

    and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
  6. that_prophet

    that_prophet New Member

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    Subject: 2020 VISION = the end of the world (Mat 24:33)

    2020 VISION of the end of the world, as stated in (Mat 24:3) MUST happen before 2020

    This is a mistranslation, as they ment to say end of the age, as in the age of Christianity

    Please help get this 2020 Vision out to the world = this end time generation is soon coming to pass

    I have the most awesome news to get out to this world. News about how we can be assured of God’s return before the year 2020 starts? That’s right, I can explain and prove by logic and Scripture verses that the Bible assures us in that all who are born again, (Joh 3:3) are promised to “meet the Lord in the air” (I Thes 4:17), to remove His Saints in the (Tit 2:13) “blessed hope” at the end of the first Door= end of Age of Christianity. http://my2020vision.yolasite.com/

    We may put our trust in the Bible, for although His Word assures us in (Mat 24:36) “that day and hour knoweth no man”, in (Mat 24:33) He not only assures us, but states it as a command, that we will “know that it is near, even at the doors”. You might ask how are we suppose to know that it is near, and what is the door that we are commanded to know. If you believe in the pre-trib Rapture, (like I do) it MUST happen prior the first door=(deadline for His Appearance in the clouds). These are dates that we are not allowed to know about, but in the original Greek, it is worded like a command. His first Door is to rescue His own,(Rapture of the Saints) and then again a little more than seven Hebrew years later, at the end of the tribulation. (His Glorious Appearance)

    We are given all the facts and figures to calculate these doors=(deadlines). We are given the date of the start of the final generation. It started when Israel took control of Jerusalem, we can know this because the seventy weeks of Daniels 9:24 also concerned Jerusalem= (holy city).
    If you take June 10th as the latest date for taking control of Jerusalem.
    And then add 51.6 years for a generation then you get June 10 = day 161/365.25 = 0.441.
    So the last day of the war = meaning Jerusalem was surely in Israeli control by 1967.441.
    If you take 1967.441 + 51.6 = 2019.041 = last day that Christ can return for His Saints in the Rapture,
    and still be able to fulfill the prophecy about this generation shall not pass.

    0.041 * 365 = 15 days = Jan 15, 2019 is the last date for Christ to rapture His Church.
    This is at the beginning of the 7 years of tribulation
    And if you add 6.9 years for the 2520 day duration of the tribulation
    2520 = 7 X 360 / 365.25 = 6.899 solar years
    2019.041 + 6.899 = 2025.94 or Dec 8th is the latest time for the second door, which is His Glorious Appearance.

    So, we are told that no one knows the day or hour, but we are assured that we may know the doors. Where the first door is Jan 15, 2019 when the rapture must occur, which ends the Christian age, when Christ comes to rescue all who are born again. Then by adding 2520 days we can get the second door, Dec 8, 2025 is the date that Christ must come back by, and sets His Feet on the earth to judge the nations.

  7. Brothertom

    Brothertom All for Jesus no matter the cost.

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    I arrived in Asmara, Eritrea, North Africa on September 26th, Yom Kippur, 2012:

    This is the exact date that the 7 year period of Daniel began.

    This is the date that Osama Bin Laden rose from the Red Sea after 17 months buried under her waters.

    Over a period of a few days, I witnessed meeting him eye to eye twice. Very tall, 6'5'', & very thin. His eyes are as if an animal lives within. I also witnessed huge pillars of fire resting on the Earth & swirling on the bare ground, as high as an Oak tree, 3 different times, on three different nights. He had no wound that I could see. It looked like there may have been a little make-up there...he had a hood on a grey flannel Mahdi Muslim Holy man garb. All of the men around him called him "THE MAHDI".

    I also met the sorcerer who did this, who accompanies Bin Laden. These are the Anti-Christ, & the False Prophet, spoken of in the book of Revelation.

    I was pursued through 4 countries by them, & a group of Taliban body-guards w/them, ending in Israel. They had me but could not take me....It was the most stressful time of my life, as I stood alone against many murderers...& I do not know how, but I stood, & did not break. It was extremely Sovereign....& I never knew it until it was over.

    I had the nerve to prophesy to them. I told them that they would get the World, but not all of it.

    "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
    [SIZE=.75em] [/SIZE]All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

    The reason they will not get all of it, is that there will yet be a remnant here when Jesus returns: The elect.

    "So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

    [SIZE=.75em] [/SIZE]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

    There will yet be a remnant. Who is this pursuer? He is the one with a wound to the head, assassinated, with the most public death in the History of the World! Zero-Dark-Thirty himself.

    "The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if .........it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed.

    And all the world marveled and followed the beast. [SIZE=.75em] [/SIZE]So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

    He is now visiting World Leaders & Muslim Leaders revealing himself as the 12th Mahdi, who fell down a water-hole well long ago! The Muslim Savior


    I also prophesied about the absolute Lord-ship of Jesus of Nazareth, & that in the end, they would be cast into the burning Lake of fire forever & ever to burn.

    I also had the nerve to tell them that they could have me, but not now.

    Forty-Two months. 1260 days after Yom Kippur, 2012, is March 9th, 2016. On this exact day there will be:

    1.] An Important Solar Eclipse.

    The Last Decade 2010 to 2019 | the Math of Eclipses - The 5 Doves


    " This will make the Total Solar Eclipse of [Mar 9, 2016] the center Focal... Is this then the year of the revealing of who the Anti-Christ will be?"

    2.] The beginning of a war on American soil that will result in her total defeat & occupation, & an eventual Tyranny of Sharia Law...where anyone who will not confess that allah is Jehovah, & Mohammed His only prophet will be killed...mostly be-headed.

    3.] The Satanic power anointing given to Bin Laden, possessed by Allah, the Prince of Persia, himself.
    The False Prophet/Sorcerer anointed to do miracles so powerful that statues will speak to men, deceiving multitudes to worship the Anti-Christ as the Savior God.

    4.] The Two Witnesses of Revelation will also be anointed on that exact day, immortal for that 42 month period, to turn waters into blood, cause the rain to stop wherever they choose, & bring cursed plagues upon men...while exalting the Lordship of Jesus, all over the Earth.

    5.] On August 21, 2019, their ministry will end with their beheading in Jerusalem, & on August 24-5, 2019...They will rise from their dead bodies to new ones publicly. It is here that the Jews there will know, when they witness these, rise that indeed Jesus is Jahweh Messiah, & they will mourn for Him..& receive Him.

    [SIZE=.75em] "[/SIZE]It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem."

    Mourning for the Pierced One
    [SIZE=.75em]10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. [/SIZE][SIZE=.75em] In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.[/SIZE]

    There remains time. a 45 day period & a 30 day period. I'm thinking close to Yom Kippur 2019...but I am not sure...but think I'm close.

    I am not looking for followers, recognition, fame or money: I am called to publish His word, & for those of you who wish to peruse...


    You will know a prophet has been among you if what he says comes to pass. I have been specific.....& I cannot blame you for rejecting this word....If any of it is a lie...it all is...

    This is my testimony, my witness.....Tom Watkins
  8. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Joe.

    That's nuts, bro. "2520 = 7 X 360 / 365.35 = 6.899 years"?! Every time I see this garbage I want to scream! There's NO SUCH THING as a "360-day prophetic year!" Stop using it!
  9. Pilgrimer

    Pilgrimer Active Member

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    The “time of Jacob’s trouble,” (Jacob = Israel) also called the time of “great tribulation” when Jesus warned those “in Judaea” to flee because of what was coming upon that nation, began in 66 A.D. and ended in 73 A.D., lasting 7 years, the final 70th “week” of years for the Jewish people, according to Daniel, and now an historical fact.

    During that last 7 years of Old Covenant worship, in the “midst” of that period, or 3 ½ years (1260 days) after the war began, in 70 A.D., the sacrifice and oblation ceased and the city and the sanctuary were destroyed. Jesus’ sacrifice had fulfilled what all those old earthly types and shadows had symbolized and having been fulfilled they all passed away.

    Students who are unfamiliar with the Mosaic Law and what it foretold would come upon Israel in the last days of the Old Covenant age do not understand all the seemingly strange and exotic imagery that is used in the Revelation to depict these events, and so they come up with their own explanation of what these things all mean.

    But the truth is these events were all depicting, from the spiritual aspect, the Old Covenant age coming to a violent and bloody end and the New Covenant age and the Gospel of Jesus Christ triumphing over sin and death and all the power of the enemy.

    It is perhaps easy to excuse ignorance of the Mosaic Law as the well-spring of these rather fantastic prophecies and imagery, but it is less easy to excuse such obstinate refusal to acknowledge the victory and power of the Cross of Jesus Christ.

    A Servant of the Triumphant, Glorified, All-Powerful Christ …
  10. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Pilgrimer (and you, too, jdbrown).

    You both have the right idea that this was about "those in Judaea" or in Judah or Y'hudah, but you have the timing completely off. Think BROADER!

    First of all, the first half of the seventieth Seven (from Dani'el 9) was fulfilled in the "ministry" (the offer of the Kingdom) of Yeshua` (Jesus). From the time of His baptism by Yochanan the Immerser until His death on the cross, Yeshua` offered the Kingdom to Isra'el for 3 1/2 years.

    That generation of Y'hudah's elders rejected their King (the King of the Jews) and crucified Him instead. So, Yeshua` HIMSELF broke the 70th Seven in half and fulfilled Dani'el 9:27.

    Daniel 9:27
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Matthew 23:37-39
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
    39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (quoted from Psalm 118:26)

    Psalm 118:22-26
    22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
    23 This is the LORD's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
    24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
    25 Save now (Howshiy`aah naa' transliterated into Greek as "hosanna"), I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
    26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD (Baaruwkh habaa' bsheem YHWH): we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

    Thus, the household of Yerushalayim, the capital city of Y'hudah, was left desolate and has remained so, not fully in the hands of Isra'el until they can say "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD." The Hebrew phrase so rendered, "Baaruwkh habaa' bsheem YHWH," literally translates to "Welcome, the-Comer in-Name (or in-the-Authority) of-YHWH," welcoming the Messiah back again.

    This effectively SPLIT the seventieth Seven in half, and the second half will not be fulfilled until He returns. We are currently IN the time of Ya`aqov's trouble and have been since HE split it! The first and greatest effect for the Jewish people was the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in and around 70 A.D. 40 years later, but it was FAR from over in 73 A.D! They have been hounded, persecuted, and killed since then EVERYWHERE they've gone since then for almost 2,000 years! The two halves of the seventieth Seven are like BOOKENDS to the time of Ya`aqov's trouble, the "tribulation" (Greek: thlipsis meaning "pressure" or "oppression").
  11. Brothertom

    Brothertom All for Jesus no matter the cost.

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    Retrobyter: You don't get it. All there is is the 360 day yearly Calender, when referring to Bible prophesy.

    "There is conclusive evidence to show that the prophetic year of Scripture is composed of 360 days, or twelve months of 30 days.

    The first argument is historical. According to the Genesis record, the Flood began on the seventeenth day of the second month (7:11), and came to an end on the seventeenth day of the seventh month (8:4). Now, this is a period of exactly five months, and fortunately the length of the same period is given in terms of days-“an hundred and fifty days” (7:24; 8:3). Thus the earliest known month used in Biblical history was evidently thirty days in length, and twelve such months would give us a 360-day year.

    The second argument is prophetical…Dan. 9:27 mentions a period of Jewish persecution….Since this persecution begins in the “midst” of the Seventieth Week and continues to the “end” of the Week, the period is obviously three and one-half years.

    Dan: 7:24-25 speaks of the same Roman Prince and the same persecution fixing the duration as “a time and times and the dividing of time”-in the Aramaic, three and a half times. Rev. 13:4-7 speaks of the same great political Ruler and his persecution of the Jewish “saints” lasting “forty and two months.” Rev. 12:13-14 refers to the same persecution, stating the duration in the exact terms of Dan. 7:25 as “a time and times and half a time”; and this period is further defined in Rev. 12:6 as ”a thousand two hundred and three score days.”

    Thus we have the same period of time variously stated as 3 ½ years, 42 months, or 1260 days. Therefore, it is clear that the length of the year in the Seventy Weeks prophecy is fixed by Scripture itself as exactly 360 days."

    The Lord Himself designed His calender, that incorporates the day, the month, & the year. The Gregorian Calender simply divides the year into 365 days + one on leap year. All prophecy in the Bible is based on the Holy Calender of God.

    Background and History
    The Jewish calendar is based on three astronomical phenomena: the rotation of the Earth about its axis (a day); the revolution of the moon about the Earth (a month); and the revolution of the Earth about the sun (a year). These three phenomena are independent of each other, so there is no direct correlation between them. On average, the moon revolves around the Earth in about 29½ days. The Earth revolves around the sun in about 365¼ days, that is, about 12.4 lunar months.

    The civil calendar used by most of the world has abandoned any correlation between the moon cycles and the month, arbitrarily setting the length of months to 28, 30 or 31 days.

    The Jewish calendar, however, coordinates all three of these astronomical phenomena. Months are either 29 or 30 days, corresponding to the 29½-day lunar cycle. Years are either 12 or 13 months, corresponding to the 12.4 month solar cycle."


    Calm down & admit you were wrong.
  12. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Brothertom.

    No, sir! It's YOU who aren't getting it! I don't care WHICH calendar you use, ALL of them have some method of a "leap" correction! There are 365.2422 days per EXACTLY EVERY year! Whether you have a leap-DAY every fourth year or a leap-MONTH every so often MAKES NO DIFFERENCE! The "leap correction" corrects for the offset!

    If one tries to use a 360-day "prophetic" year, he's ASKING FOR TROUBLE! Why? Simply because HIS YEARS ARE TOO SHORT!!! There's a MAJOR problem in trying to rectify the STRANGE calculations some "prophecy buffs" make against actual year values! They DO NOT TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE LEAP MONTHS!!! The normal Jewish calendar makes month-to-year corrections every so often because their month (or rather, "moonth") IS, as you said, 29.5 days long, making them either a 29-day month or a 30-day month, whichever is closer. If one uses a 360-day year, at the end of the first year, he's off by 5.2422 days. At the end of the second year, he's off by 10.4844 days. At the end of the third year, he's off by 15.7266 days! That's HALF A MONTH OFF! At the end of the sixth year, he's off by 31.4532 days! That's OVER a month off! If he hasn't made the correction, yet, he's in serious trouble. The Jewish calendar introduces a second Adar, the first Adar being the leap month. At the end of the 12th year, he's off by 62.9064 days - over 2 months off! At the end of the 18th year, he's off by 94.3596 days! Now, he's off by a whole SEASON! He's trying to have his winter months in autumn! And, you want to let them draw that out for 490 YEARS?!! Assuming the two cycles started in sync, he would be off by 7 YEARS AND 12 DAYS!

    The Jewish year is QUITE familiar to me, and I've studied all sorts of calendars. I used to be a Y2K computer programmer. Spent two years going through tens of thousands of individual programs, line of code by line of code, looking for the two-digit years and exchanging them for a four-digit year as often as possible. Wrote several subroutines to do the calculations necessary to do the conversion if, for some reason, the program couldn't be updated to a four-digit year, introducing coding into the two digits to represent a number closer to the four-digit year for comparison purposes. We also had to convert all the databases, expanding them for the four-digit years added. This had to be done for all the dates in the system, beginning and ending sale dates, dates of club membership, dates for orders, due dates for billing, etc.

    In the process, I studied calendars: Julian, Gregorian, Jewish, Arabian, Persian, Mayan, Chinese, ... The most consistent calendar was NOT the Jewish calendar but the late Persian calendar! Time-keeping was a fascination for me, and I studied various forms of perpetual calendars to calculate the day of the week from the date. And, Year 2000 was not even the change of the century or the millennium! That didn't occur until the next year in 2001! But, the computer scare got the media attention. There were bigger celebrations worldwide in the change from 1999 to 2000 than there were for the actual new millennium from 2000 to 2001!

    The point in the Jewish calendar, however, was to establish times when celebrations and memorials were to occur on a LUNAR cycle. EVERY holiday was keyed either to the beginning of the "moonth" (the new moon) or the middle of the "moonth" (the full moon). Consequentially, it is also no great mystery why astronomic events such as solar eclipses and lunar eclipses might occur on a Jewish holiday! It would actually be MORE amazing if they DIDN'T! Solar eclipses can only occur when the lunar ecliptic intersects with the solar ecliptic during the time of the new moon! Lunar eclipses, likewise, can only occur at the time of the full moon, again, when the ecliptics align! The only mystifying part is WHEN they might occur over YOUR part of the earth! Even the truly "Jewish 'prophetic year'" of twelve 29.5-day "moonths" would only be 354 days! IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!

    Either use the 365.2422-day year or use a leap 1st Adar; you can't perform meaningful calculations without one or the other.
  13. Pilgrimer

    Pilgrimer Active Member

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    That’s one explanation perhaps, but I don’t think it’s a very good one.

    Jesus didn’t “offer the kingdom” to Israel during his ministry, he “taught” the people about the kingdom during his ministry. But the “offer” of the kingdom began with Pentecost and the preaching of the Gospel. And that offer of grace and admittance into God’s Kingdom through faith in the atoning blood of Jesus continued for 40 years, until not only the Jews in Jerusalem and Judaea, in Samaria and Galilee had heard the Gospel and the offer of the kingdom, but until the Jews throughout the Diaspora, in all the world, had been given opportunity to hear the Gospel and receive Jesus, or reject him and suffer God’s wrath during the final 7 years given to Daniel’s people before the Old Covenant passed away.

    Also, there’s a problem with that interpretation of Daniel 9:27 you sketched out. It states that the sacrifice and oblation would cease in the middle of this 7 year period. That didn’t happen at the end of Jesus’ ministry, the sacrifice and oblation continued for another 40 years. It ceased when the city and sanctuary were destroyed. And all of that happened in 70 A.D., in the middle of the 7-year war which brought the Jewish state and the Levitical economy to an end.

    There was no “split” in the week, and certainly not a 2000 year one.

    In Christ,
  14. Brothertom

    Brothertom All for Jesus no matter the cost.

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  15. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Pilgrimer.

    Nonsense. If you can't recognize what Yeshua` was doing for 3.5 years, then what makes you think that you have any of the rest of the NT correct? Yeshua` (Jesus) certainly DID “offer the kingdom” to Israel during His ministry, and it had to be a valid offer or NONE of the prophecies about Yeshua`s first coming - His First Advent - would have come true! Why do you think that the Magi heralded His birth as "the King of the Jews" (Matthew 2:2)? Why do you think that Gavri'el (Gabriel) said the following to Miryam (Mary)?

    Luke 1:30-33
    30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
    31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
    32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
    33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

    Why do you think it was so important that Pilate put the superscription on Yeshua`s cross:

    Matthew 27:37
    37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    Mark 15:26
    26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    Luke 23:38
    38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    John 19:19
    19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    The composite of all this is "THIS IS JESUS (YESHUA`) OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS." And, ALL FOUR Evangelists use the words "THE KING OF THE JEWS!" Don't you think this is important?!

    Why was it so important to the Jews for Pilate NOT to write it that way! And, why was Pilate so adamant about what he had written?!

    John 19:20-22
    20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
    21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
    22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.

    Why were BOTH LINEAGES (that of Yosef His adopted father in Matthew 1 and that of His mother in Luke 3) written to show that Yeshua` was indeed the son of David?! Why was Yosef's lineage that of the dynasty of David's kingly line?

    What was so important about what God said of Him at His baptism?

    Matthew 3:16-17
    16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Mark 1:9-11
    9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
    10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
    11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Luke 3:21-22
    21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
    22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

    John 1:29-34
    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
    30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
    31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
    32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
    33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
    34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

    Did you know that this was the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant (in part)?

    1 Chronicles 22:7-10
    7 And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the Lord my God:
    8 But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.
    9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.
    10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.

    1 Chronicles 28:2-10
    2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:
    3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.
    4 Howbeit the Lord God of Israel chose me before all the house of my father to be king over Israel for ever: for he hath chosen Judah to be the ruler; and of the house of Judah, the house of my father; and among the sons of my father he liked me to make me king over all Israel:
    5 And of all my sons, (for the Lord hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of the Lord over Israel.
    6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.
    7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments, as at this day.
    8 Now therefore in the sight of all Israel the congregation of the Lord, and in the audience of our God, keep and seek for all the commandments of the Lord your God: that ye may possess this good land, and leave it for an inheritance for your children after you for ever.
    9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.
    10 Take heed now; for the Lord hath chosen thee to build an house for the sanctuary: be strong, and do it.

    Psalm 2:1-12
    1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
    3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
    4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
    5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
    6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
    7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
    8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
    10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
    12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

    Psalm 89:3-4
    3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
    4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

    Psalm 89:20-37
    20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
    21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
    22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
    23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
    24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
    25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
    26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
    27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
    28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
    29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
    30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
    31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
    32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
    33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness (Hebrew: chesed = covenant-keeping) will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
    34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
    35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
    36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
    37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

    By God naming Yeshua` HIS Son, He CONFIRMED the Davidic Covenant!

    And, regarding your comment,...

    YOU have a problem! It doesn't matter what PEOPLE do, regarding making a sacrifice; it's all about GOD and how HE reacts to a sacrifice! Have you never read the book of Hebrews?!

    Hebrews 9:1-10:22
    9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
    2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
    3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
    4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
    5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
    6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
    7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
    8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
    9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
    10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
    11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
    16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
    17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
    18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
    19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
    20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
    21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
    22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
    23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
    24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
    25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
    26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
    27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
    28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
    10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
    5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
    6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
    11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
    19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
    20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
    21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
    22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

    It's not about whether a person sacrifices to God! It's all about GOD and whether HE accepts the slaughtering of an animal as a "sacrifice!" If God won't accept the "SACRIFICE," then it is nothing more than a mere slaughtering of an animal containing NO SIGNIFICANCE AT ALL! Once Yeshua` died as our Sacrifice, His body being the Sacrifice offered, there was NO FURTHER NEED FOR AN ANIMAL SACRIFICE! The sacrifices TRULY ENDED, whether the slaughter did or not! NONE of the slaughter of animals from Yeshua`s death and on were "sacrifices" to God, no matter how many animals they slaughtered until the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. because GOD WOULD NOT ACCEPT THEM!

    Indeed, there is a legend that says that the scarlet thread that they tied around the goat for YHWH as His sacrifice (while the other goat escaped as the "scape goat") would be supernaturally turned from scarlet to white on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). After Yeshua` died, however, that scarlet thread never turned white again! God was no longer accepting the goat for a sacrifice!


    Shalom, Brothertom.

    Why are you sighing? Just understand that one CANNOT use a 360-day year! It is neither the Jewish calendar year nor is it a "prophetic year!" It's a FARCE! THERE'S NO SUCH THING! It might be convenient for those who are mathematically challenged, but it is WRONG!

    The better thing to understand is that the 1,260 days IS NOT THE SAME THING as the 42 months or the "time, times, and half a time." Nor are the 42 months the same as the "time, times, and half a time!" There's a REASON why these time periods are said in three different ways; they are THREE DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS! As you noted, 42 months or "moonths" would be 42 x 39.5 days = 1,239 days! Also, a "time, times, and half a time" would be 3.5 x 365.2422 days = 1,278.3477 days!
  16. Pilgrimer

    Pilgrimer Active Member

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    United States
    If you are trying to convince me that Jesus is the Christ, you’re too late, I have known, and trusted in that, for most of my life.

    And it wasn’t necessary for a bunch of blind, hypocritical Sanhedrists to own him as King to make it so. He was born into the world Savior and King.

    But the point is, the only way to enter into God’s kingdom is through faith in the blood of Jesus for remission of sin. While Jesus spent 3 ½ years teaching the people what the kingdom of God was and preparing the people to receive the Gospel, it wasn’t until after the Cross that the Way was opened for men and women to enter into that Kingdom, through faith in the blood of Jesus for remission of sin.

    Actually, it’s about what God’s Word says, and what the Word of God says is that in the days of the coming of Messiah, in the middle of a 7-year period, the sacrifice and oblation would cease and the city and sanctuary would be destroyed.

    In the days of the coming of Jesus, in the middle of the 7-year Roman/Jewish war, the sacrifice and oblation ceased, and the city and sanctuary were destroyed. Historical fact.

    Now you can claim … what? that it’s just a coincidence? That it doesn’t mean anything? It has nothing to do with Daniel’s prophecy? Has nothing to do with God’s Word?

    And how do you know? Because you have a full-proof method of interpreting Scripture that doesn’t require God’s help.


    In Christ,
  17. Brothertom

    Brothertom All for Jesus no matter the cost.

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    "The first argument is historical. According to the Genesis record, the Flood began on the seventeenth day of the second month (7:11), and came to an end on the seventeenth day of the seventh month (8:4). Now, this is a period of exactly five months, and fortunately the length of the same period is given in terms of days-“an hundred and fifty days” (7:24; 8:3). Thus the earliest known month used in Biblical history was evidently thirty days in length, and twelve such months would give us a 360-day year."

    "Using the Bible, well-documented historical events, and some math, we find that the Flood began approximately 4,359 years ago in the year 1656 AM or 2348 BC"

    So, we know that there was a Calender in effect, even in the old World. It is God's Calender. Believe it or not; God knew that there were 365 & 1/4 days in this year; but chose a perfect calender different than the Gregorian calender. In 1582, The RCC changed from the Julian calender of 325. It was slightly altered to stabilize the Worship of the demoness Estarte [ Easter ] in the Spring Equinox at the same yearly time, by the RCC.

    So, to remedy the problem of 1/4 day, they developed Leap Year...about every four years.

    The Lord used a different method: "
    Covering a span of a total of 7000 years, this calendar numbers every day since Day 1 of Creation, providing visitors with the ability to directly search and view all 86,578 lunar months as reckoned from Jerusalem, Israel."

    He added a month every two or three years to the Calender:

    The Jewish calendar has 13 months in a leap year. There are 29 or 30 days in each month in a Jewish leap year, which has 383, 384, or 385 days.

    Adar – the lucky month
    "An extra month, Adar I, is added after the month of Shevat and before the month of Adar in a leap year. The month is also known as Adar Rishon or Adar Alef. According to Jewish tradition, Adar is a lucky and happy month. A leap year is referred to in Hebrew as Shanah Me'uberet, or a pregnant year. A Jewish leap year occurs 7 times in a 19-year cycle. The 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years are leap years in this cycle."http://www.timeanddate.com/date/jewish-leap-year.html

    "Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood,[SIZE=.65em][a] saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=.75em] But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. [/SIZE]
    And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

    1.260 days = 42 months = 30 day months..
    The exact same times & times as it was in the days of Noah:
    150 days 5 months at 30 days a month.

    God spoke these things as reality. Do not let your intellect & knowledge reject this simplicity; it is abundantly clear...IF you believe the Scriptures.
    I have been thinking about the Daily Sacrifice being taken away in the midst of the covenant, as prophesied in Daniel.

    [SIZE=.75em]12 [/SIZE]Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.

    [SIZE=.75em]13 [/SIZE]Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”

    [SIZE=.75em]14 [/SIZE]And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days;[SIZE=.65em][a][/SIZE] then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."

    Could there be a dual fulfillment to these prophesies?


    I wonder. I think the Holy Place IS where the Al Aqsa Dome of the Rock Islamic/Allah Temple now sits. Could Bin-Laden, the Anti-Christ, receive worship of himself there? And there would be no Temple built at all by the Jews.. The Bible does not say the Temple site, But the Holy Place...which is where Abraham offered Isaac, Where David worshiped in the Field of Ornan.

    "Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in "the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SIZE=.75em] “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."...Jesus.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=.75em] And...."There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=.75em] The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth,[/SIZE]

    ...............and is of the seven,"...One of the most enigmatic scriptures in the entire Bible...
    ..."Was? Is Not?& also the 8th."

    How could a man be a was & and an Is not & yet be the final one prophesied? I have begged God for an answer to this.

    .....MAYBE!......Could this be a referral to Antiochus? who was of the 7, was, & is not, who was possessed by Allah as an Anti-Christ who fulfilled the abolition of the daily Sacrifice, committed the Abomination that makes desolate, yet returns as Bin Laden who, possessed by the same Demon, demands worship of himself as Mohammed/The Prince of Persia, Allah...complete with an actual talking statue right there?

    "And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. [ Bin Laden ]

    He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.[SIZE=.75em] [/SIZE]

    He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads."..[ To buy or sell...worship Allah/Mohammed as Jehovah, & Bin Laden as savior of all....or be beheaded....using starvation too...take the mark or no buying food...or shelter."

    This is the Great Trial that shall come upon the entire Earth.
    "[SIZE=.75em] Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.[/SIZE] "
    It is possible. This may reconcile these difficult scriptures that imply that Antiochus was the one, fulfilling Daniels prophecy to a T...& yet he was, & is not....meaning the same devil who possessed Antiochus returned to the latter day Anti-Christ...whose Abomination will be World-wide...not just Jewish.

    “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast."

    I think that Ben Laden is setting up this government now, & I believe that Barak Hussein Obama will be one of them. I believe he knows, & is setting america up to be annihilated & then dominated by Allah & Sharia Law...abolishing Christianity & all other forms of worship...& Bin Laden will declare himselg allah/God/Mohammed....& death will come to all who refuse this Mark...mostly by beheading, as it is today around the world.

    Bin Laden is revealing himself to leaders & clerics around the world now...with attesting miracles from the False prophet Sorcerer with him. I saw the pillars of fire in North Africa, on 3 different nights...I met Bin Laden twice, eye to eye....surrounded by body guards. A beast is in those eyes.

    The 7 year period of Daniel began on Yom Kippur, 2012, September 26th. This is the Exact day the Bin Laden rose from his sea Grave, The RED SEA...17 months after his deadly head wound killed him. I was in Asmara, Eritrea, at the exact hotel he was brought to on that day, by the sovereign word of the Lord to witness him, & the pillars of fire, & the Taliban there who desired my head.

    I was pursued through 4 countries., ending in Jerusalem.

    1260 days, 42 months after Yom Kippur, 2012, is March 9th, 2016.

    This is the day that The Great Tribulation will begin.

    America will be the first country to fall. She will lose a major Air War on or near that exact day, for air Superiority....& then will be invaded by the largest invasion force in History....20 million eventually.

    With America out of the way, there will be a Domino affect: The West will Fall....as will all nations...to the power of the Beast, Bin Laden & his sorcerer friend, the False Prophet; the most powerful sorcerer in the history of the world. I have met him, face to face.

    The FP & AC & the Two witnesses will all be anointed on that day; March 9th, 2016...& the indignation will last 1260 days, until August 21, 2019...& with their resurrection on August 24-5 2019, very public, the thorn of the power of the anti-christ will be removed.

    The Jews in Israel will repent at this time, with an Earthquake following the Two Witnesses resurrection, knowing that Jesus was, & is Messiah all along.

    There will be armies surrounding Jerusalem at that time, with orders to butcher every Jew, man, woman or child, who refuses the Mark of the Beast.

    Somewhere close to Yom Kippur 2019? There will be a change in the sky. It will be like eventide, with an odd feeling as though time is stopping...for it is.

    Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
    [SIZE=.75em] [/SIZE]Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

    Jesus returns!
  18. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    United States
    Shabbat shalom, Brothertom.

    No. That doesn't work. NO prophecy has a "dual fulfillment." That's confusion pure and simple. If there were such a thing, how would you know when the prophecy had been fulfilled?! A prophecy ONLY has force if it has a definite, one-time-only fulfillment. Otherwise, all you have are the ramblings of a Nostradamus or a Jeanne Dixon!
  19. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    That's just not true.

    Some see a partial fulfillment of prophecy while some parameters are still lacking, and then say that prophecy was fulfilled. But it really is not completed yet, and that's all.

    Such is the case when Jesus proclaimed the coming of a false one to Jerusalem to place the "abomination of desolation" within the temple (Matt.24; Mark 13). He gave that from the Book of Daniel after one named Antiochus Epiphanes had previously in 165 B.C. took Jerusalem and setup an abomination inside the temple in Jerusalem with his acts outlining the Daniel prophecy, but not completing it.
  20. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    United States
    Shalom, veteran.

    Well, sir, you would HAVE to say that in order to use the prophecy that was FULFILLED by Antiochus Epiphanes for the Antichrist, too!

    Let me help you here. The prophecy in Dani'el 11 was fulfilled by SEVERAL figures in history, not just Antiochus. It started with the last four kings of Persia before Alexander the Great came on the scene in verse 2. Alexander the Great is found in verses 3 and 4. His four generals who took over when he died are found in verse 4, and they became the four dynasties that grew from that intrigue. The kings of the south are the Ptolemaic Empire; the kings of the north (from the perspective of Isra'el) are the Syrian kings of the Seleucid Empire. The other two groups were not involved with Isra'el; however, the story continues with ROME and the end of the chapter were prophecies about Caesar Augustus and Herod the Great. These prophecies were also already fulfilled. Thus, the ENTIRETY of the 11th chapter of Dani'el is ALREADY FULFILLED! The only part of the latter half of Dani'el that is NOT already fulfilled is the end of 9:27. The first half of the seventieth Seven was fulfilled in Yeshua`s offer of the Kingdom (His "ministry" of 3.5 years). HE was the one who split the 70th Seven in Matthew 23:37-39 specifically verse 38. He left them desolate until they can say, "Baruwkh haba' b'shem YHWH" or "Welcome, Comer in the authority of YHWH." Then, the second half of the Seven will be fulfilled as He completes His offer of the Kingdom to Isra'el. Of course, portions of Dani'el 2 and 7 are also still unfulfilled.

    Yeshua`s mention of an "abomination of desolation" is from Dani'el 9:27! It was for the overspreading of THEIR abominations in rejecting their King that led to their desolation! Ironically, that very desolation led to what the JEWS would consider an "abomination," the destruction of the Temple!

    The final Seven of Dani'el 9 is NOT equivalent to the times of "Tribulaton" (Greek: thlipsis = "pressure" or "distress") or "Ya`aqov's (Jacob's) Trouble." That period began in the first century and has been on-going until today and will continue to be an issue until our Lord returns as promised. When Isra'el can welcome their Messiah (as they should have done already), THEN Yeshua` will arrive and with Him will come the signs in the sun, moon, and stars, immediately AFTER the "Tribulation." As I've said before, think of the two halves of the seventieth Seven as bookends to the "Tribulation" in between them. Although they are related, they are NOT equivalent!

    Don't make up rules about how prophecies are fulfilled in order to justify your need for Dani'el 11 to be unfulfilled in some way! That's called circular reasoning, bro'. Use Yeshua`s own prophecies (some 400 or so) that were fulfilled ONCE in the time of Yeshua`s First Advent.