How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

[BibleScribe]

Your last statement is an assumption that I've not been following the Scriptures. You have not proven that.
...

Hi Veteran,
.
I think you've already proven that for us. Did you want me to explain it to you?




To All,

Please be most aware that the assignment of the Lion/Eagle, Bear, and Leopard have absolutely NOTHING to do with either the Balfour Declaration (which provided a homeland for the Jews), or the E.U., or OPEC, or Islam, or any other alignment which so many stumble over.

It's not ancient, as directed by Daniel 12:4 & Daniel 12:9, and a simple analysis of modern geopolitical events should reveal exactly what GOD predestined, and History has fulfilled. -- Is GOD's Prophetic Word a mystery?


BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

Hi Veteran,
.
I think you've already proven that for us. Did you want me to explain it to you?

Like I said, you've proven nothing of the sort.

To All,

Please be most aware that the assignment of the Lion/Eagle, Bear, and Leopard have absolutely NOTHING to do with either the Balfour Declaration (which provided a homeland for the Jews), or the E.U., or OPEC, or Islam, or any other alignment which so many stumble over.

It's not ancient, as directed by Daniel 12:4 & Daniel 12:9, and a simple analysis of modern geopolitical events should reveal exactly what GOD predestined, and History has fulfilled. -- Is GOD's Prophetic Word a mystery?

BibleScribe

Well, must be a mystery for you, or is there some political agenda you're trying to push here?

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 has EVERYTHING to do with today, and the United Nations, and the proposed 'peace plan' in the middleast.



From http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/The%20Balfour%20Declaration


[size="+1"]The Balfour Declaration
November 2, 1917[/size]

• 
  During the First World War, British policy became gradually committed to the idea of establishing a Jewish home in Palestine (Eretz Yisrael). After discussions in the British Cabinet, and consultation with Zionist leaders, the decision was made known in the form of a letter by Arthur James Lord Balfour to Lord Rothschild. The letter represents the first political recognition of Zionist aims by a Great Power.

Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917
Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour

---------------------------------

Real interpretation of that: Establishing of a Jewish state in the holy land, AND PROPOSED PEACE with non-Jewish Palestinians living there. That more than anything, was the cause of the current Israeli-Arab conflict. It even resulted in the 1967 and 1973 wars over Jerusalem, and is still what has Islam fired up today. It was the fulfilling of Bible prophecy to set the time of the parable of the fig tree pointing to the last generation when the Zionist state was created by U.N. Charter vote in 1948.

 

[BibleScribe]

Hi Veteran,

Actually the Balfour Declaration can be summed up as follows:

By 1917, the British had defeated the Turkish Ottoman’s hold on Palestine, occupying significant regions of the Middle East. But borders acceptable to Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, and Egypt had to be negotiated. They were finally established on December 4, 1918 by the British and French.
These boundaries left the Zionists disappointed, but a “Balfour Declaration” issued on November 18, 1918 did provide some assurance. This British document laid the foundation for a Zionist state by the key phrase, “a national home for the Jewish people,” as interpreted by the French, German, and Hebrew with the “connotation of a cozy corner,” but the Arabic translation used the term, “Watan Qaumi,” which meant “national fatherland,” a much more substantive term.

Amos Elon, Israelis Founders and Sons, Rinehart and Winston, NY, 1971, pp. 174-175​

But you miss the significance. This Balfour Declaration was not "the going forth of the Word to establish and rebuild Jerusalem". This declaration simply prepared the way for these times, these men, and that nation. So I ask you where, as noted by Young, is the Declaration by GOD commanding the Jews to establish their nation? -- I'll give you a hint, it was issued for 1924.


BibleScribe​

 

[veteran]

Hi Veteran,

Actually the Balfour Declaration can be summed up as follows.

No need to sum it up any more, since I already referenced it for those interested. The later attempts at a permanent peace accord between Israel and the Palestinians have been a result of that Balfour plan. Because all previous attempts to create a permanent peace in Jerusalem have failed is still not a viable indicator that it will never happen. God ways are not man's ways.

 

[BibleScribe]

... once again, you offer nothing more than the Balfour Declaration was the preparation for the "event". So I guess I'll have to ask again, -- WHAT IS THE EVENT?


BibleScribe

 

[Perspectives]

Don't know about you, but I've been in a great tribulation for years. It's called the tribulation of me! Yea, He recieved me as I was and loved me. He also loved me enough to not leave me as I was! Most want to point out flaws in others, keep the fire on others and away from them. In your prayer time consider praying about you, you the person. You may not like what you hear and see come to pass, but it sure will grow you up. God uses the mature. Eph. 4:14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro..... It's about growing up, not going up and what takes place then. As to eschatological issues, if God has decided to take a living, breathing people of His off the planet or not for example,my focus is to stand in His order and know that whatever happens, no matter as to how I feel, what I think about certain situations, it's all for my good. Rom. 8:28.

 

[BibleScribe]

Hi Big Picture,

I'm not sure why Peter and the apostles were rejoicing after they were flogged, but that seems pretty significant compared to most things in our lives. (Ref. Acts 5:27-41) As such I would not expect that a ~living tribulation~ is a Christian experience. (Ref. John 15;11)

Please be most assured, there will soon arrive a day in which Christians will endure circumstances similar to the Holocaust. But GOD's grace abundantly abounds even in the depths of the earth, and so too should our joy.. (Please note the example of Betsy Tenboom, who was joyous unto death.)



BibleScribe

 

[Prentis]

Don't know about you, but I've been in a great tribulation for years. It's called the tribulation of me! Yea, He recieved me as I was and loved me. He also loved me enough to not leave me as I was! Most want to point out flaws in others, keep the fire on others and away from them. In your prayer time consider praying about you, you the person. You may not like what you hear and see come to pass, but it sure will grow you up. God uses the mature. Eph. 4:14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro..... It's about growing up, not going up and what takes place then. As to eschatological issues, if God has decided to take a living, breathing people of His off the planet or not for example,my focus is to stand in His order and know that whatever happens, no matter as to how I feel, what I think about certain situations, it's all for my good. Rom. 8:28.

Ah AMEN Big Picture! You nailed the it right on!!!!!!

Thank you for a breath of fresh air among dead debates!

 

[BibleScribe]

To All,

I'm not sure about "dead debates", because Scripture has a message for the church regarding these end-times. And where there is Prophecy, we should also find History. But if we fail to perceive the Prophecy, then History is without foundation. For who can surmise when the "going forth of the word to establish and rebuild Jerusalem" was proclaimed?

Was it in ~483BC in defiance of Daniel 12:4 & Daniel 12:9? Or was it approximate to the years preceding 1948? And where Young observed that the edict carries the inference of being directly from GOD, -- was it really from a Persian man?

And resolving some of the challenges of Prophecy (including debunking the 7-year Tribulation duration, for which Rev. 13:5 correctly declares only 42 months), does Scripture provide the start of the Tribulation?


But then again, maybe ignorance is bliss, and we don't want or need GOD's provision. Maybe GOD is simply teasing us with HIS Prophetic nonsense. Maybe we're too smart to fall for HIS tomfoolery. -- Or maybe we're to stupid to know the difference.

Either way, who cares? If we perish, we perish. -- Thou sluggard.


Proverbs 24

[sup]30[/sup] I went past the field of a sluggard,
past the vineyard of someone who has no sense;
[sup]31[/sup] thorns had come up everywhere,
the ground was covered with weeds,
and the stone wall was in ruins.
[sup]32[/sup] I applied my heart to what I observed
and learned a lesson from what I saw:
[sup]33[/sup] A little sleep, a little slumber,
a little folding of the hands to rest—
[sup]34[/sup] and poverty will come on you like a thief
and scarcity like an armed man.


BibleScribe

 

[tgwprophet]

Pre Mid or Post Trib rapture... hmmm maybe one should understand for whom the rapture will spare. All Christains do not go in the Rapture. Understand there are those that will deny the mark and be beheaded for their denial. There are those that are not taken in the rapture and et angry at God becasue they did not go (Have you not read of this?). There are those that are persecuted for not having the mark, these are Christains. Churches have filled their pews by claiming all Christains are taken in the rapture. I am not trying to fill a pew.
There is a reason for being a watchman, it is for your protection. A pre-tirbrapture of all Christains would not require a watchman. The Jews are the last and when they accept Jesus, Armageddon transpires meaning they are not beheaded. This leaves it to the Christains to be beheaded. Those who do not take the mark will be persecuted before the beheading. Put these things together to get a correct picture. Consider those with no ability to deny the mark and you will discover for whom the rapture is for.

As far as when will Tribulations begin... It begins with the setting of the cornenr stone. and lets go back a little further too.. 30 days before the setting of the corner stone will be an agreement allowing that setting, it will also stop the Daily sacriifice. In that agreement I suspect will be certain terms such as the ability of gentiles to be present during the building of the temple. These are those that currently posses the Dome of the Rock and they will be allowed certain participations with the construction of the temple. And the gentiles will be allowed in the courtyard for 42 months... From the ime of the starting of the Daily Sacrifice to the cleansing of the Temple is 2300 days. That 2300 days can't begin at the Abomination of Desolation when most think is when the Daily Sacrifice is stopped. Do the math. 2300 days is roughly 6.3 years! So consider when the cleansing of the temple takes place working your way back past when the corner stone is set, continue back 30 days when the Daily sacrifice is stopped and you come up with a maximum amount of 1010 days the Daily Sacrifice can last. Now, remember before Tribulations can begin, the Daily Sacrifce must not only start but also must be stopped and it has yet to start.


It will not be 50 years before Tribulations begins. It will not be 40 years before Tribulations begins. It will not be 30 years before Tribultaions begins. It will not even be 25 years before Tribulations begins. Tribulations has not yet begun. The Daily Sacrifice has yet to start and htherefore has yet to be stopped and that is very simple math. May God Bless! And may this understanding stay with you when the rapture comes so if you are not taken, you maintain your strenght in God and Jesus to deny the Mark of the Beast even unto beig beheaded.

 

[BibleScribe]

Hi Terry,

If I were asked exactly how I arrive to a 2,300 day fulfillment, I could explain each aspect of Daniel 8, arriving to the 2,300, and continuing to this transgressor being broken. And so I would expect anyone who has a doctrine to not simply picking some facet, -- but to explain the entire diamond.

I say this, because I suspect that you cannot explain each Scriptural point, but are somehow enlightened with the 2,300 having been taken out of the full Chapter context. But if I am incorrect, then certainly you could account for something as simple as identifying the sequence of "toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land". And if I am correct, then you probably only picked up a ~washer~ and declared it to be part of the ~bumper~, when if fact it might actually belong to a completely different portion of the vehicle.

So can you explain the geographical progression of south, east, and glorious land?



BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

There is no such thing as a Pre-trib rapture in God's Word. Speculation about it is meaningless.

 

[BibleScribe]

Hey Veteran,

Did you not want to answer my challenge?

... once again, you offer nothing more than the Balfour Declaration was the preparation for the "event". So I guess I'll have to ask again, -- WHAT IS THE EVENT?

To All,

I would propose that Scripture provides and History confirms the Prophecies for these last days. As such I would assert that the Balfour Declaration is prophetic, but it's not the "going forth of the word to establish and rebuild Jerusalem". So where is this prophecy for this Balfour Declaration, and where is the prophecy for the assembling of GOD's chosen?

... or is this simply an exercise in ~handwavium~, where we simply ~feel~ events?


BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

Hey Veteran,

Did you not want to answer my challenge?







To All,

I would propose that Scripture provides and History confirms the Prophecies for these last days. As such I would assert that the Balfour Declaration is prophetic, but it's not the "going forth of the word to establish and rebuild Jerusalem". So where is this prophecy for this Balfour Declaration, and where is the prophecy for the assembling of GOD's chosen?

... or is this simply an exercise in ~handwavium~, where we simply ~feel~ events?


BibleScribe

I don't know what your really talking about, since no one here that I know of ever said the Balfour Declaration was related to Cyrus' command for Judah to establish Jerusalem after their 70 years captivity to Babylon.

 

[Groundzero]

I was just curious to know what people thought as to how close we were to the seven year tribulation? I just wanted to say, I didn't really want to turn this thread into a does a seven year tribulation exist vs does not exist thread. If you don't believe in it, great, vote you don't believe in it and move on, or start another thread on why you don't believe in it.

Joshua David

I think the Tribulation will start when there is a definite extinction of one of the generations of the church. When there is barely anyone left of that generation. That generation would have to be the young people.

The church is always one generation away from extinction.

 

[veteran]

I think the Tribulation will start when there is a definite extinction of one of the generations of the church. When there is barely anyone left of that generation. That generation would have to be the young people.

The church is always one generation away from extinction.

I know many think that kind of thing, but I'm not so sure that's what the Scripture means. The main working for the coming great tribulation is that of deception to a false messiah. So when our Lord Jesus said the time would be shortened for His elect's sake or there wouldn't be any flesh left, I see that to mean the danger of everyone falling away to bow to the false messiah. I don't see it to mean all out genocide upon Christians.

We know per Rev.13 it's when the abomination idol is setup in Jerusalem that's when the trouble for us will start, with the false messiah requiring all to bow to that image idol or be killed. That was set originally for a period of 1260 days, but Christ shortened that time for our sake. Towards the latter part of the tribulation is when I see many of us being delivered up to councils and synagogues to give a Testimony by The Holy Spirit against the beast.

 

[Ray]

Again and again in the New Testament Scripture we see that the Church will and must go through Great Tribulation, My question, where in Scripture does the mention of THE GREAT TRIBULATION found. With the word THE in front of this Great Tribulation so many speak of. I don't see nowhere in Scripture where Tribulation is used with the definate article before it. Where is it ? Or is this another doctine taught from the minds of men and is found nowhere in Scripture.

 

[veteran]

Again and again in the New Testament Scripture we see that the Church will and must go through Great Tribulation, My question, where in Scripture does the mention of THE GREAT TRIBULATION found. With the word THE in front of this Great Tribulation so many speak of. I don't see nowhere in Scripture where Tribulation is used with the definate article before it. Where is it ? Or is this another doctine taught from the minds of men and is found nowhere in Scripture.

You're arguing over semantics...

Matt 24:21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
(KJV)

 

[BibleScribe]

... no one here that I know of ever said the Balfour Declaration was related to Cyrus' command for Judah to establish Jerusalem after their 70 years captivity to Babylon.

Young observed that the commandment "from the going forth of the word to establish and rebuild Jerusalem" is not an edict from man, but from GOD. As such you err in your Cyrus assignment, and miss the TRUE significance of the Balfour Declaration.

It's kinda like John the Baptist, he wasn't the Messiah, -- and so too, the Balfour Declaration was not the "going forth of the word". And in both cases there was another person/event which was the fulfillment.


BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

Of course it was by God's command first silly!


Ezra 1:1-3
1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.
(KJV)

Really reaching if that's the best argument you can try to get on me.