How do you address opposing Scripture verses?

[Waiting on him]

That verse poses something of a problem, doesn't it? Was Jesus contradicting Moses? I don't think so, not if we remember that all the Law is about Love, if interpreted correctly. People would go around in Jesus' day saying that to justify themselves; but the real meaning is rather nice.

It means that judges in court cases could not penalize people more severely than the crime. If you put out someone's eye, they could not punish you as if you had put out both. They would award you monetary damages for the one eye. It didn't mean the other person's eye had to be put out; but over time, it became a common saying and Jesus was making fun of it: "You have heard it said. . . ." Judges could also be less severe if mercy was warranted; but they could be more severe than an eye for an eye. That was in contrast to some of the pagans' law codes which sometimes were extremely harsh.

I hope he compensates those that have offended me, the same way He’s compensated me for my offense

 

[GodsGrace]

I never heard that interpretation of turning the other cheek. I think it's a hard concept. But I did try to think of what would yield the most good. I had initially thought that turning the other cheek would but as time went on I saw that the lawyer basically stole that money with the aid of the court lawyer, and I began to think differently. Why should a lying son of the devil get to keep a child of God's money? I just began questioning my own reasoning. The lawyer is well-connected and I had to face whether there was any fear that played into the decision. Humans have a remarkable way of rationalizing.

There was no happy relationship with that lawyer - he was vile and abusive and lied through his teeth.

I'd have to agree with what you did, although I'm really not one to give personal advice.
Every situation is different.

As to turning the other cheek...
You could look this up.
It has to do with pride. Slapping one on the cheek was showing disrespect.
Turning the other cheek to him was saying that you had no respect for him...
The slapper was belittled, and if onlookers knew you were a Christian,,,which back then they would have,,,it was being a witness to your faith.

It's very interesting.

 

[GodsGrace]

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Aha.
Well, speaking face to face with God does not mean that the person SAW HIS FACE.
It means that they spoke to each other in a personal way.

This could also be looked up, I'm sure.

God is spirit and He cannot be seen.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes but what of the verses I gave? How would you personally think to apply the following verses: "Have nothing to do with the unfruitful deeds of darkness but even expose them..." vs "Therefor if thine enemy is hungry feed him..." ?

Loving those that are unloving (your enemy) does not mean you approve of their behaviour, in fact, calling people on their unacceptable behaviour, especially if they are a friend, takes courage. Calling them on their stuff is not abuse but rather it is shining a light in a dark corner. They mightn't like it and it could cost a friendship but those responses are not your issue.

The texts you have quoted are not contradictory in the slightest. We are not to confuse our responsibility towards our neighbour with that of sanctioning his/her poor behaviour/attitudes.
We are to keep ourselves unspotted from sin not from people. As you recall, Jesus's reputation in some circles was that of a drunkard and a glutton.....Why? because he was? no no, but because he didn't condemn those who were. Did this mean he sanctioned their behaviour? I don't think so. It was the 'religious' who inverted true values and projected their own tight fisted attitude towards people onto Jesus.

 

[farouk]

At the moment I’m traveling on the interstate. Will get back later

The Eisenhower Interstate system was one of President Dwight D. Eisenhower's great achievements...

 

[Heart2Soul]

Jesus says I’ll repay. Vengeance is His.

I will handle my salvation with fear and trembling thank you

 

[Waiting on him]

I will handle my salvation with fear and trembling thank you

Your already safe.

 

[Soverign Grace]

By Divine understanding I mean, I’m sure (as we all have) you have read and reread a verse and to the best of your understanding think you understand the verse. And than one day, God as it were turns the light on and you understand the verse in such a deeper and new way. This happens to new and old believers (Praise God) for this is how we grow Spiritually. This is how I see those verses that seem to contradict each other. I trust God and believe there are no contradictions in truth. For I see that as a impossibility .... That is how I mean the term “Divine understanding”.

As far as the “peace of Christ in your heart”..... Whatever doesn’t cost you your joy. Whatever leaves Christ on His Throne in your heart... If you don’t or can’t see clearly enough to know.... just wait before Him and do nothing. Take the loss and trust God in the situation. For He sees all things and only wants to bless, so I’ve discovered, when things go against what I know to be right. Just trust and wait before God whether it costs me or not. For it’s His creation we are part of and He does rule all things... For in this world we may not understand this or that, but we don’t live for the now, we live looking toward God and His righteousness and love and hope and wait on Him.

Hope it helps with my meaning and to encourage.

Be blessed in Christ, Not me

Yes I know what you mean - you're given understanding from God - and I know it happens lifelong. Some verses seem to contradict one another but when you have a decision to make and turn to Scripture for guidance, you have to make a decision with only the wisdom that is available to you at the moment. If God hasn't shown you where there is a deeper meaning to specific verses, the only guidance you have at that time are what appear to be contradictory verses. So at this current point in time, God hasn't shown me any deeper meanings to the verses that would govern this situation. But I admire your faith in believing that Scripture does harmonize at some point.

 

[Not me]

Yes I know what you mean - you're given understanding from God - and I know it happens lifelong. Some verses seem to contradict one another but when you have a decision to make and turn to Scripture for guidance, you have to make a decision with only the wisdom that is available to you at the moment. If God hasn't shown you where there is a deeper meaning to specific verses, the only guidance you have at that time are what appear to be contradictory verses. So at this current point in time, God hasn't shown me any deeper meanings to the verses that would govern this situation. But I admire your faith in believing that Scripture does harmonize at some point.

(My thoughts would lean towards, if you don’t or can’t get a clear answer from God do nothing at all. But trust the outcome in His hands. (this would be my thoughts) ???? )

All scripture must be understood spiritually or it is just human understanding playing as it were with the words of truth.... Though it may give some comfort to the reasoning factor in man, it is still flesh until the understanding of the verses in question become alive in the believer.

Whichever way you choose, as one that knows God inwardly, let the peace of Christ rule in your heart and trust His love for you as I know you have been doing. Knowing that this too is from His hand for your building up.

Be blessed as you continue to search into Him.

Not me

 

[Soverign Grace]

I don’t know. You ask a good question. As children of God we are to set up a standard (IMO). What you said of Him driving the money changers out of the temple...was not this His saying this is not to be so in the temple of God. Yet, as you also mentioned His willingness to go when they came in the garden for Him. All your confusion over the right approach I think is fair and reasonable and (IMO) to be commended that you care what God says. Only advice I can give is to surrender it to Him who judges righteously. Even if you take no action...if it is God who wants a justice done then surely He can bring that justice about in many ways. Consider Paul who when a man had done wrong within the body ...Paul said he had already judged and they were told to put him without for Satan in hope the flesh could be destroy but a life saved. Why didn’t Paul just take justice...instead submitted destruction to satan. What does justice even look like...Saul gave the orders for Stephens stoning yet then for the sake of mercy; Paul is given the message of the gospel of grace to the gentiles. God’s ways surely are higher than our own. If you don’t hear a clear path...ask God to.

I had something like that happen recently - a company I had dealt with was corrupt and caused me some problems - it took a period of several years but I just read that they're being sued - so usually if someone treats you corruptly they treat others corruptly as well. So God did show me that He brought about justice although it wasn't through me.

I walk close to God but I find that it is still sometimes hard to know which Scripture to apply when - this was just one example - especially when there seem to be conflicting ways to address issues. I think if Christians are honest they'll admit that they struggle with figuring out the specifics of how to live out their faith. For instance - I read Dear Abby and a woman wrote to say that her husband repeatedly beat her up and she counseled with a "well-known" evangelical pastor who counseled her to submit to her husband and not leave him. Dear Abby wrote "God didn't say to turn the other cheek if the first one was black and blue."

For someone genuinely trying to follow God, the Scriptures can sometimes be very hard to interpret. The "well-known evangelical pastor" gave terrible advice in my opinion - but that was the way that he interpreted Scripture. It seems sometimes that wrongs are perpetrated by interpreting Scripture wrongfully. I think if Christians admitted it they've seen a fair amount of this.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I had something like that happen recently - a company I had dealt with was corrupt and caused me some problems - it took a period of several years but I just read that they're being sued - so usually if someone treats you corruptly they treat others corruptly as well. So God did show me that He brought about justice although it wasn't through me.

I walk close to God but I find that it is still sometimes hard to know which Scripture to apply when - this was just one example - especially when there seem to be conflicting ways to address issues. I think if Christians are honest they'll admit that they struggle with figuring out the specifics of how to live out their faith. For instance - I read Dear Abby and a woman wrote to say that her husband repeatedly beat her up and she counseled with a "well-known" evangelical pastor who counseled her to submit to her husband and not leave him. Dear Abby wrote "God didn't say to turn the other cheek if the first one was black and blue."

For someone genuinely trying to follow God, the Scriptures can sometimes be very hard to interpret. The "well-known evangelical pastor" gave terrible advice in my opinion - but that was the way that he interpreted Scripture. It seems sometimes that wrongs are perpetrated by interpreting Scripture wrongfully. I think if Christians admitted it they've seen a fair amount of this.

Would agree (it was wrong) about the lady being told to submit to being beaten. admit I too struggle with deciding a clear path. Some one once told me it is okay to get angry when something is terribly wrong ...sometimes speaking up is what is needed more than being silent. It is confusing and not always simple ...

 

[quietthinker]

Would agree (it was wrong) about the lady being told to submit to being beaten. admit I too struggle with deciding a clear path. Some one once told me it is okay to get angry when something is terribly wrong ...sometimes speaking up is what is needed more than being silent. It is confusing and not always simple ...

God gets angry at injustices. It is an emotion he has built into us. It is not bad in itself. Getting angry for inappropriate reasons is where the problem lies.
Qualifying health (mental/emotional) is important ie, what it constitutes and what it doesn't. If we have no benchmark by which to measure we are at the mercy of the waves of emotion which result in more than not poor decisions.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Aha.
Well, speaking face to face with God does not mean that the person SAW HIS FACE.
It means that they spoke to each other in a personal way.

This could also be looked up, I'm sure.

God is spirit and He cannot be seen.

I hadn't read that interpretation but it's possible.

 

[Soverign Grace]

(My thoughts would lean towards, if you don’t or can’t get a clear answer from God do nothing at all. But trust the outcome in His hands. (this would be my thoughts) ???? )

All scripture must be understood spiritually or it is just human understanding playing as it were with the words of truth.... Though it may give some comfort to the reasoning factor in man, it is still flesh until the understanding of the verses in question become alive in the believer.

Whichever way you choose, as one that knows God inwardly, let the peace of Christ rule in your heart and trust His love for you as I know you have been doing. Knowing that this too is from His hand for your building up.

Be blessed as you continue to search into Him.

Not me

I know what you mean - I read that there are pastors who aren't even spiritually regenerated - so they obviously teach the bible from the flesh.

I'm questioning everything that I had previously thought and why - I think it's sometimes hard to know what choice to make without God's direct guidance. The verse comes to mind "work out your salvation..." - I don't know if it applies but I think that it must be part of growing as a believer to struggle with applying Scripture.

I prayed and the point I got to was that my earlier decision didn't sit well with me after I made it. I'm afraid if Christians turn the other cheek too much - like someone had said earlier - it actually promotes corruption even more. The corrupt court lawyer learned that she could abuse her position and the corrupt probate lawyer learned that he could use his connections to steal money that he wasn't entitled to. So I don't know if I made the right decision but I went with what I was comfortable with.

I'm older but it seems like years ago we expected representatives to be honorable and today we're used to them being dishonorable.

I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Would agree (it was wrong) about the lady being told to submit to being beaten. admit I too struggle with deciding a clear path. Some one once told me it is okay to get angry when something is terribly wrong ...sometimes speaking up is what is needed more than being silent. It is confusing and not always simple ...

The pastor who advised the woman to submit to being beaten interpreted Scripture completely literally - without any consideration for the unique circumstances. We attended a church where the leadership said that God placed them in positions of leadership and their decisions were basically sacrosanct. It just seems like there are some instances that aren't that easy to apply Scripture to, and sometimes when Scripture is applied wrongfully.

 

[Enoch111]

The pastor who advised the woman to submit to being beaten interpreted Scripture completely literally - without any consideration for the unique circumstances.

This was obviously and patently in opposition to Scripture (regardless of circumstances). So it should have been clear that this man was not a pastor.

We attended a church where the leadership said that God placed them in positions of leadership and their decisions were basically sacrosanct.

This again was contrary to Scripture. Only those leadership decisions which are according to Scripture are acceptable. And there may be time when church leaders need to be severely rebuked because they are out of line.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The pastor who advised the woman to submit to being beaten interpreted Scripture completely literally - without any consideration for the unique circumstances. We attended a church where the leadership said that God placed them in positions of leadership and their decisions were basically sacrosanct. It just seems like there are some instances that aren't that easy to apply Scripture to, and sometimes when Scripture is applied wrongfully.

A lot gets misapplied from literal interpretation ...the difference being night and day. What really gets me is seeing nonbelievers using a verse or two as if they own it...an example would be: the cops come to arrest a man for battery, drunkenness, and resisting arrest as the man spouts obscenities at the cop: “I’m head of my woman. She is gonna listen and obey...” But in not so nice of words using the B-word. Took me the longest time and some counseling to untangle twisted bible verses, and see Jesus was not being disrespectful when he said to His Mother: “Woman, what have I to do with thee?...”

 

[Not me]

I know what you mean - I read that there are pastors who aren't even spiritually regenerated - so they obviously teach the bible from the flesh.

I'm questioning everything that I had previously thought and why - I think it's sometimes hard to know what choice to make without God's direct guidance. The verse comes to mind "work out your salvation..." - I don't know if it applies but I think that it must be part of growing as a believer to struggle with applying Scripture.

I prayed and the point I got to was that my earlier decision didn't sit well with me after I made it. I'm afraid if Christians turn the other cheek too much - like someone had said earlier - it actually promotes corruption even more. The corrupt court lawyer learned that she could abuse her position and the corrupt probate lawyer learned that he could use his connections to steal money that he wasn't entitled to. So I don't know if I made the right decision but I went with what I was comfortable with.

I'm older but it seems like years ago we expected representatives to be honorable and today we're used to them being dishonorable.

I appreciate everyone's input.

If you wouldn’t mind me saying so I see a real desire after Christ and knowing Him, His truth and righteousness in your post. As I’m sure you know, that desire after Him, is, your “Christ in you” since you have that, you have that that is necessary to bring you into all truth and all growth. So (as I’m sure your aware) give heed to this new life in you with all its whisperings and directions, for it is this desire in you, given full freedom to grow, is that that will present you before Him so you might get your abundant welcome.

So yes, you are being a “doer” of the word by struggling to work out your own salvation, which is our proper duty.

So as a fellow believer, I encourage you in your search and walk after Christ. So be blessed as you continue to feed your personal relationship with Christ. For in that relationship will all truth be found. And these set of circumstances God has set before you will, in time, be made to bring forth the peaceable fruit of righteousness and a increase of Christ living His life in and through you.

Be blessed most loved one of God, Not me

 

[Soverign Grace]

This was obviously and patently in opposition to Scripture (regardless of circumstances). So it should have been clear that this man was not a pastor.

This again was contrary to Scripture. Only those leadership decisions which are according to Scripture are acceptable. And there may be time when church leaders need to be severely rebuked because they are out of line.

I agree with you - but how do you say it was patently in opposition to Scripture? The pastor's judgement was obviously way off but Scripture does say to turn the other cheek. Just reading about that shows me that other believers (if the pastor was a true believer) also have trouble interpreting dueling Scripture verses.

I thought the same as you about the church leaders and I did tell them they were wrong. But because I did that the pastor must have called a meeting behind my back and told the church to blackball me. I think he labeled me a heretic. Everyone in our home care group gave me the cold shoulder - people whose homes we had been to and who had been to our home. I liked the people but I came to see that church was something of a cult. All the congregants would vehemently deny it but I knew at the time something was off with the leadership and the entire church who fell in line dutifully beneath them. I have since become wary of independent churches as they aren't answerable to anyone. These several men had built their little fiefdom and to belong you had to toe the line.

But...like everyone else finds out - the pleasure of sin is for a season. The last I heard their little group broke up. They really hurt me at the time - we were first generational christians and I got an indoctrination into snootyville christianity. But experience has given me firmness of mind about what church I want and don't want to belong to.

But there is another case of puzzling verses: the Bible does say to obey those who have rule over you - but I didn't, and it turned out to be the right decision. They hurt a family member and so I went outside of their little clan and emailed 11 pastors and explained the situation. I'll always be grateful for those 11 pastors - they helped me keep my stability during a time when I was being attacked - through church members no less. They each told me to leave the church - that the leadership was not right. I presented their responses to the pastor of the church and he read them and said "you told them only what you wanted to." I told him their email addresses were all on the communication and to tell the situation from HIS side then. He refused.

He refused because he knew he was lying.

But there was a case where I didn't submit and it was the right decision. Thus my trying to align my experiences with Scripture. Do you think I'm missing something here? Some other applicable verses I didn't factor in?

 

[Soverign Grace]

A lot gets misapplied from literal interpretation ...the difference being night and day. What really gets me is seeing nonbelievers using a verse or two as if they own it...an example would be: the cops come to arrest a man for battery, drunkenness, and resisting arrest as the man spouts obscenities at the cop: “I’m head of my woman. She is gonna listen and obey...” But in not so nice of words using the B-word. Took me the longest time and some counseling to untangle twisted bible verses, and see Jesus was not being disrespectful when he said to His Mother: “Woman, what have I to do with thee?...”

It's taken me many years to work through a lot of Scripture and I've had my share of misapplication and misunderstanding - and I still do. God didn't give us an easy task. I think a lot of christianity misapplies verses - those two I gave being examples. I wish I had found a really good bible teacher who was really good at interpreting Scripture to learn from. But we didn't get the best teachers early on - it was like the blind leading the blind. I came from a Catholic background which didn't help - but we stumbled through it.

I haven't listened to any pastors on TV for awhile - I don't know any good ones but I'd like to find one.