How does God lead?

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farouk

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The above is for our new friend @friend of
but didn't John write Revelation?
Did he contradict himself?

Names CAN be blotted out of the book of life because salvation is not absolutely secure until we reach the end of our life and know we have persevered till the end.

Mathew 24:12-14 Jesus said:
12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.


I'll take Jesus' words any day.

He speaks of people's love growing cold. This means they loved God and then did not love Him anymore.

The one who endures to the end will be saved.
And when is the end?
All the nations will hear the gospel, and THEN the end will come.

I do think John would agree with Jesus.
The verses' context is the saints in the tribulation; it's not the Rapture of the church in view in Matthew 24.
 

GodsGrace

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Ephesians 2 - the first few verses - show very strongly that the will of the unbeliever is thoroughly in bondage to a totally fallen state; and what the sinner thus needs is the grace of God.
Right.
We're in bondage to satan, even though we may not even know it or act like it,
until the born again experience.

The cross has freed us from this bondage.
 
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GodsGrace

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The verses' context is the saints in the tribulation; it's not the Rapture of the church in view in Matthew 24.
I'm not much for escatology.
I'm not sure there will be a tribulation and I'm not sure about the rapture.
I don't really wish to discuss this because of insufficient knowledge.

However, I DID explain the verses as Jesus said them.
Could you do the same please, exegete them, if you don't agree with me.

Post 241...here it is again:

Mathew 24:12-14 Jesus said:
12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

I'll take Jesus' words any day.

He speaks of people's love growing cold. This means they loved God and then did not love Him anymore.

The one who endures to the end will be saved.
And when is the end?
All the nations will hear the gospel, and THEN the end will come.

Jesus says that those who endure till the end will be saved.
How can only those in the tribulation be saved??
Please explain.

Also, He says that people's love will grow cold.
This has always been happening...

later.
 

1stCenturyLady

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This is not true of me. What I fear is you are more like King Saul who broke off from God's word and consulted other spirits. If you add to scripture, you do exactly this.

I'm not adding to scripture, but acting on what exists. It is you that have taken away from scripture that which you don't believe, and want me to do the same. I won't.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Antichrist is more than a single person. He exists any place people ignore God's word and follow extra biblical teachings. The many deaths in failed faith healing attempts speak for this.

“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:9–12) (KJV 1900)

There have been many healings today, and you are saying they are not from God, but Antichrist. Wow!
 
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Dave L

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There have been many healings today, and you are saying they are not from God, but Antichrist. Wow!
God heals through the prayer of faith. I'm saying the charismatic gifts expired with the apostles. Scripture proves this but does not prove otherwise.
 
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Dave L

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I'm not adding to scripture, but acting on what exists. It is you that have taken away from scripture that which you don't believe, and want me to do the same. I won't.
Extra biblical revelation is what did in King Saul.
 

1stCenturyLady

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God heals through the prayer of faith. I'm saying the charismatic gifts expired with the apostles. Scripture proves this but does not prove otherwise.

Your saying scripture proves this is a lie. Shame on you. Where in scripture does scripture negate itself?
 

1stCenturyLady

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Extra biblical revelation is what did in King Saul.

Your unbelief is astounding. What is happening with you is the spirit of Leviathan, the twisting serpent. So, Saul, believe what you want. No one can get you to believe scripture but God, Himself.
 
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Dave L

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Your saying scripture proves this is a lie. Shame on you. Where in scripture does scripture negate itself?
No proof the gifts came in any other way than through the two outpourings and an apostle's hands. Plenty of proof today's so called gifts are not genuine when compared to first century gifts. (We should begin a thread on this).
 

1stCenturyLady

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Faith comes from hearing the word, not from vibes and imaginations of fringe believers.

Faith comes by hearing the spoken word from God, Himself. His sheep know His voice. Others just see vibes and imaginations. Don't you know that your mockery confirms your unbelief?
 

1stCenturyLady

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No proof the gifts came in any other way than through the two outpourings and an apostle's hands. Plenty of proof today's so called gifts are not genuine when compared to first century gifts. (We should begin a thread on this).

Leviathan, or just plain ignorance!
 

Helen

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Dave,
There's no way to make this more clear to you:

IF GOD CONTROLS US
We DO NOT have free will.

Free will, and particularly libertarian free will as pertains to the bible,
means WE choose what WE WANT to choose...
NOT what God MAKES US CHOOSE.

If God makes us choose...it' HIS will, not ours.
In that case we DO NOT have FREE WILL.

Please think this over.

I know what Calvin taught and it's sick.
It would be a sick God that not only sends some to hell through no fault of their own, but would also make man think he's choosing something when really he is not.

Here are some of Calvin's words:
that whenever God is pleased to make way for his providence, he even in external matters so turns and bends the wills of men, that whatever the freedom of their choice may be, it is still subject to the disposal of God. That your mind depends more on the agency of God than the freedom of your own choice, daily experience teaches.

All of Book Two Chapters 6 and 7 of the Book of Institutes should be read.
I mean, are we living in the Matrix?
Or are we free men?


I guess the free will posts are still on topic ..God leading...

I feel the free will , and God being Sovereign....Much like a rich owner who had his beautiful horses loose in a huge field. They could do as they pleased. run, eat, sleep, mate, raise young , even fight etc etc

They were free, but safe and contained. Sometimes he would saddle them up and ride them etc etc... Some would come when he called, some ran away.

This is a subject that can be argued from both sides.
But this is how I reconcile it to myself.

My brain can only understand easy things.. :D
 
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Dave L

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I guess the free will posts are still on topic ..God leading...

I feel the free will , and God being Sovereign....Much like a rich owner who had his beautiful horses loose in a huge field. They could do as they pleased. run, eat, sleep, mate, raise young , even fight etc etc

They were free, but safe and contained. Sometimes he would saddle them up and ride them etc etc... Some would come when he called, some ran away.

This is a subject that can be argued from both sides.
But this is how I reconcile it to myself.

My brain can only understand easy things.. :D
It's too easy, that's why people stumble over it.
 
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Dave L

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Free will & sovereignty as simple as it gets. A kid, a carrot and a goat.

A kid has a wagon to which he attaches his goat. We know goats have a mind of their own, and if any creature has a free will, it is a goat. So the kid ties a carrot to his cane pole and dangles it in front of the goat. The goat wants the carrot so the kid steers the goat pulling the wagon according to the direction both want to go in. If the kid dangles the carrot to the right, the goat trots in that direction. If the kid wants to stop, he applies the wagon brakes. If he wants to start up again, he releases the brakes and dangles the carrot in front of the goat in the direction he and the goat now wants to travel.

So in this we see the kid’s sovereignty, the goat’s free will and its genuine desire to choose what the kid wants him to do, even though the motives differ. And the secondary causes the kid uses to steer the goat to his planned direction.

And so it is with us, God sends and controls all the secondary causes that lead us goats to freely choose the destination he planned for us.
 
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