How does God lead?

[Dave L]

You believe the scriptures about the gifts are obsolete. But no proof.

You have no proof of their continuance unless you ignore the means of distribution.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You have no proof of their continuance unless you ignore the means of distribution.

You have no proof of their discontinuance, except some vibe they are from Antichrist.

I cannot make you believe if your mind has been turned over to utter unbelief, so I am signing off with you. I'll just leave you to God to deal with.

 

[GodsGrace]

There have been many healings today, and you are saying they are not from God, but Antichrist. Wow!

I haven't followed very well, but what you're stating above is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit....attributing to satan what God has done.
Can't look for the scripture right now...

 

[Dave L]

You have no proof of their discontinuance, except some vibe they are from Antichrist.

I cannot make you believe if your mind has been turned over to utter unbelief, so I am signing off with you. I'll just leave you to God to deal with.

But, as it stands, you are making the same mistakes King Saul made when he went beyond scripture looking for knowledge in the devil's domain. You are safe if you stick to the bible. Because, that is where faith comes from. Beyond that, only a false sense of faith exists that leads nowhere good .

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess the free will posts are still on topic ..God leading...

I feel the free will , and God being Sovereign....Much like a rich owner who had his beautiful horses loose in a huge field. They could do as they pleased. run, eat, sleep, mate, raise young , even fight etc etc

They were free, but safe and contained. Sometimes he would saddle them up and ride them etc etc... Some would come when he called, some ran away.

This is a subject that can be argued from both sides.
But this is how I reconcile it to myself.

My brain can only understand easy things..

You explain this well. You did another time too, when I was still new here.

I understand it like this:
It's like a football game. God knows how He wants the game to end.
But each player will be free to throw the ball as he wants to and it'll be up to another player to play well and get the ball and run with it. Mistakes will happen and wrong decisions will be made...but in the end the game will end how God wanted it to.

I think this is the best we can do.
If we don't have free will, we're just a bunch of robots and I really wouldn't care to serve a God like that.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I haven't followed very well, but what you're stating above is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit....attributing to satan what God has done.
Can't look for the scripture right now...

Yes, exactly. But Dave won't listen.

 

[Dave L]

You explain this well. You did another time too, when I was still new here.

I understand it like this:
It's like a football game. God knows how He wants the game to end.
But each player will be free to throw the ball as he wants to and it'll be up to another player to play well and get the ball and run with it. Mistakes will happen and wrong decisions will be made...but in the end the game will end how God wanted it to.

I think this is the best we can do.
If we don't have free will, we're just a bunch of robots and I really wouldn't care to serve a God like that.

The problem is, free will in this case makes people God, the creator, and God the spectator, watching the game. But God created everything in the universe. This includes the the choices people make. In the end all comes together precisely as God created it.

All that you experience shapes you into the person God created.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, exactly. But Dave won't listen.

I listen to the bible, not to those trying to sell another product on the side.

 

[farouk]

I'm not much for escatology.
I'm not sure there will be a tribulation and I'm not sure about the rapture.
I don't really wish to discuss this because of insufficient knowledge.

However, I DID explain the verses as Jesus said them.
Could you do the same please, exegete them, if you don't agree with me.

Post 241...here it is again:

Mathew 24:12-14 Jesus said:
12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

I'll take Jesus' words any day.

He speaks of people's love growing cold. This means they loved God and then did not love Him anymore.

The one who endures to the end will be saved.
And when is the end?
All the nations will hear the gospel, and THEN the end will come.

Jesus says that those who endure till the end will be saved.
How can only those in the tribulation be saved??
Please explain.

Also, He says that people's love will grow cold.
This has always been happening...

later.

See the context from Matthew 24; the tribulation mentioned there is different from the tribulation principle in John 16: "In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world", a wonderful promise to take hold of.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I listen to the bible, not to those trying to sell another product on the side.

Listening to the Bible, but having faith in acting on the Bible are two different things. You're stunted.

 

[Jay Ross]

Free will & sovereignty as simple as it gets. A kid, a carrot and a goat.

So dave, you are dumping all of your sins onto us goats and driving us out into the desert with all of your sins on us.

Sorry, but the record that will be reviewed at the appointed time for you, will be your transgression and your righteousness. I am not sure how well your record will be received.

 

[ScottA]

What's my error?
WHO are the disciples?

While Jesus was alive the Apostles were referred to as Disciples.
There is one occasion where it states that Jesus sent out the Disciples, and this refers to about 70 persons. Luke 10:1

After Jesus' death, the 12 Disciples became known as the Apostles to distinguish them from the others and to give them their rightful importance.

In John 20:23 Jesus gives the Apostles authority to forgive sin.

If what YOU had posted is correct, then Catholics are correct in believing that priests STILL have the authority to forgive sins. (or, at least, to declare it).

I'm saying that we have to be careful about stating WHAT is passed on and not make blanket statements.

The text doesn't say "apostles", but says "disciples", which referred to "His followers." If you couple that with John 20:23 ("Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations") it would indicate that He did not mean it for just the 12, but for all people, all nations.

 

[ScottA]

Acts 17:11

Which is a moot verse anyway because HOW else do we follow Christ except by how it is determined in scripture?

I hear some that say they're believers tell me they will never lose their salvation even if they return to a life of sin. IS THIS BIBLICAL?

HOW Jesus tells us to follow Him is in the entire N.T...


John 7:16
John 5:47
Romans 10:17

Sticking with the question at hand (Do the scriptures say that God only reveals things to us during this New Testament era through the scriptures?) Acts 17:11 doesn't say that. However there are many scriptures that have been given here that show without question that He reveals Himself by a host of other spiritual means as well...in particular, that He promised to "pour out My spirit upon all flesh", which was then confirmed by Peter as beginning on the day of Pentecost. As such, this debate should be over, as proven by the scriptures.

The closest passage to the contrary is Romans 10:17 ("So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"), which does not negate the above passages of Joel and Peter, but must be reconciled with them. Thus, Paul was not contradicting the other passages, but filling in some of the mechanics of just how things come to be. But he does not say that he only meant the written word. On the contrary, Paul himself heard the written word, but also heard for Christ in spirit. Surely, he did not mean to say that his own encounter was not acceptable as our friend Dave would have it.

 

[Enoch111]

Sticking with the question at hand (Do the scriptures say that God only reveals things to us during this New Testament era through the scriptures?)

As far as doctrine ins concerned, it is only through the Scriptures (2 Tim 3:16,17). But that does not mean that God does not give personal direction to Christians directly, or indirectly (through others).

 

[ScottA]

As far as doctrine ins concerned, it is only through the Scriptures (2 Tim 3:16,17). But that does not mean that God does not give personal direction to Christians directly, or indirectly (through others).

That is not a proof text about this issue:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Paul was not setting limits on God, but rather elaborating [on the scriptures alone] and gave many great features of the scriptures. But he was not at all addressing every means of communication from God. His only expressed limit, was that he was [only] referring to the scriptures. That was the subject and the context, nothing more.

 

[Enoch111]

That was the subject and the context, nothing more.

So you are suggesting that one can derive Christian doctrine from sources other than the Bible? As a matter of fact Paul puts DOCTRINE as the first item on his list (2 Tim 3:16,17), since it is only from the Scriptures that we derive true Bible doctrine. Not from the writings of Ellen G. White, or Joseph Smith, or Brigham Young, or the Book of Mormon, or the Koran. Or any dreams and visions.

 

[ScottA]

So you are suggesting that one can derive Christian doctrine from sources other than the Bible? As a matter of fact Paul puts DOCTRINE as the first item on his list (2 Tim 3:16,17), since it is only from the Scriptures that we derive true Bible doctrine. Not from the writings of Ellen G. White, or Joseph Smith, or Brigham Young, or the Book of Mormon, or the Koran. Or any dreams and visions.

I am not suggesting anything, but simply stating the fact that God is true in His own description of revelations during these times - which He has clearly done in writing, in the scriptures.

But that does not give license to any who contradict the scriptures. No one is saying that. But likewise any who would go against what God has clearly stated (as has been done here) and come up with their own limits...are just as bad as those charlatans you listed. Both are contrary to God. The one is instead-of-God, and the other is anti-God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You have no proof of their continuance unless you ignore the means of distribution.

You believe God is limited to just the twelve apostles. That was the start of the church, not the end.

 

[Enoch111]

You believe God is limited to just the twelve apostles. That was the start of the church, not the end.

No, actually God has limited Himself to twelve apostles, and every Christian should believe it. Please note the limitation given BY GOD HIMSELF, as carved into the New Jerusalem:

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Rev 21:14)

Did you notice that? THE twelve apostles of the Lamb (Judas excluded, Paul included). Very specific, very clear, very final.

To settle the matter once and for all, Jesus said this to the apostles while He was yet earth, which cannot contradict the above Scripture:

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mt 19:28)

Just as there are only twelve tribes of Israel, there are only twelve apostles, one for each tribe, and one throne per apostle.

 

[amadeus]

My brain can only understand easy things..

Only two choices, Helen: God's Way or not.

Most people have chosen the "not", but even many who seemingly have chosen God actually straddle the fence with the of being spit out of His mouth.

As to God controlling people, He does not, at least not while they still on their course in this veil of flesh. He blesses those who walk with Him, but those who do not, in addition to receiving a curse, may be used by God in their ignorance to accomplish the work of His left hand.