How does one "receive" Jesus and His subsequent power?

[Truther]

The eternal laws of God are, but they are different that the Ten Commandments of Romans 7. When the 10C were all we had, we had to keep them with a carnal nature that was in opposition to them. That was the Old Covenant. Here is the difference in the New Covenant:

The old sin nature is dead, Romans 6:2 and 6.
We are reborn with a new nature that has the laws of God imprinted on our hearts to make them part of our nature.
Jesus sent His Spirit to indwell us, empowering us to keep the righteous requirements of the law NATURALLY.

No, those verses instruct us to cease from sin, not that we cannot backslide.

If our old man is no more, then you cannot sin, ever.

 

[Gideons300]

Take heed unto the sound bibilcal doctrine and unto our own bodies .
GOD will give us a way out of every temptation common to man . WE have all we need IN CHRIST to be overcomers .
JESUS came to set the captives free from sin , not free to sin .
Let us truly relearn our bibles well . Be reading those gospels and the letters from the apostels and all sound doctrine .

The question is not whether or not God will provide the way of escape. The question is.... how can we make sure we take it? The armor He provides us, His sword, and the shield of faith WORK. But, they only work if we put them on. LOL.

If after years of walking as Christians, we find that we are still ignoring the ways of escape God graciously provides, still muddling along in Romans 7, do we not desperately need God to cause us to obey Him? Should this promise God gives us in Ezekiel 36:27 be seen as amazing good news, where the burden of our obedience falls upon His shoulders, not ours, as we trust Him to keep us from falling?

Has He not promised to cause us both to will and to do of His good pleasure? He has indeed. Being imprisoned by sin and self is understandable and even acceptable, IF, like Paul, we are found crying out to God to set us free indeed, hating that our disobedience brings dishonor to Jesus. But how many there are who are content to live out their lives in Romans 7, still ruled by our old natures, giving in to willfull sin when the mood hits?

Unbelief has rooted in here deeply in the church, because we have accepted the lie that we can never walk in real victory till we are dead. The truth is, we are partially right. We must die to walk as overcomers. We simply have not yet believed that we.... the old carnal natured, disobedient, self- loving nature... that WE? It is dead already. Our job is to not work harder to die to self. It is to believe it as our present state.

God has more for us.... much more. But we cannot have the eyes of our understanding enlightened that we might truly understand 'the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe' until we finally come to hate our old self nature.

blessings,

Gideon

 

[Truther]

Yes, but you were not realizing that Chapter 8 makes chapter 7 null and void.
Chapter 7 - Old Covenant - LAW/ by flesh. Romans 7:13
Chapter 8 - New Covenant - SPIRIT/Jesus/ by not in flesh. Romans 8:9

You cannot put new wine into old wine skins, but that is what you are trying to do. You are not recognizing the POWER of the Spirit to take away sin out of our nature. You have been taught that you still have your old nature, the most common of all false doctrines of demons. Study those other verses. We must be born again, and not just know who Jesus is, but ask Him to come inside us.

Sis, Paul never voided the previous chapters, but was giving us clarity in chapter 8.

Chapter 7 was present tense in Paul's current spiritual situation.

Why would the Bible command the saints to "put off" the deeds of the flesh when they are already off?...


Ephesians 4:22-24
King James Version

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Gideons300]

No, those verses instruct us to cease from sin, not that we cannot backslide.

If our old man is no more, then you cannot sin, ever.

No, we are to reckon that we are dead to the old man, and as we believe it, the power of our new nature grows within us. We CAN still sin, but as we believe that God will keep is from falling, and that faith takes root and grows, we discover that although we CAN sin, we DON'T sin. Glory!

blessings,

Gids

 

[Truther]

Paul was simply describing the commonality of those trying to keep the law, whether it be the mosaic law or the inner law of trying to please Jesus.... through self effort.

How do we know that this was not Paul's testimony as an apostle? We simply read on into Romans 8. In Romans 7, Paul says that the law, which is the strength of sin's power against us, loses its authority over us as long as we live.

This is why Romans 6 is so critical and why Paul was telling us the importance of reckoning ourselves dead, believing we no longer are that old natured man. Why? Because if we.... our old nature.... actually did die when Christ died, then sin, whose strength is the law, is stripped of its power to cause us to sin.

Paul's testimony did not end up in Romans 7 but Romans 8. He cried out for the deliverer to deliver him and He did! Thus, in Romans 8 Paul clearly tells us that we are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit as men with new natures, and owe the flesh NOTHING! Glory!

If one finds themselves still trapped by sin in Romans 7, God still accepts such a one IF they are found like Paul crying out for the free indeed Jesus most clearly promised us. This is the important step in our growth..... coning to the point we HATE our old nature for only then are we ready to do the one thing we are asked to do..... look away from ourselves, our strength, our weakness, our ANYTHING, and believe what actually happened with Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

We cannot 'die to self'. But we can die to our trying to die to self, lol.

I pray this blesses you.

Gids

Trapped in Romans 7?

I think it reveals 2 natures in us.

This must be taught.

Folks are baffled after being saved and realizing this for the first time in their lives...


14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.


But relieved to find there is another part of them that is good...


22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Truther]

No, we are to reckon that we are dead to the old man, and as we believe it, the power of our new nature grows within us. We CAN still sin, but as we believe that God will keep is from falling, and that faith takes root and grows, we discover that although we CAN sin, we DON'T sin. Glory!

blessings,

Gids

Amen, and if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father....

 

[amigo de christo]

Romans 6 says water baptism is a burial with Christ unto his death.

If the Holy Ghost makes someone alive in Christ then baptism for the remission of sins is a "buried alive" process.

That is a trippy doctrine to have.

Peter makes it real clear what the water baptism represents .
IF JESUS said to do it , we do it . But there were some who sure did speak with tongues , had recieved the like gift that even the apostels had
and then they were water baptized . If its in the bible , simply beleive it .
Fact is , JESUS taught them to go out and teach all nations to observe , aka TO DO , ALL things HE had taught them .
So , that is the beauty of it . Lambs would love all things JESUS taught . Would be hearers and doers of the word .
For the Spirit abides in the true lambs . GO ye into all the world baptizing them in the name of the Father , Son , Holy Ghost
teaching them to observe ALL things i have taught . Let the LORD be praised .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen, and if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father....

LEts give the full reminder . IF we do sin we do have an advocate , ITS JESUS .
And if we CONFESS our sins , HE is faithful and just to forgive us . As james once said
confess ye your faults one to another and pray that ye may be healed .
I love the way paul and them approached any doctrine . Any error . It was Let all who name the name of JESUS
depart from inquity . RECKON yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin .
The approach , pattern OF JESUS works . The apostels knew that and followed HIM , aka the Spirit .
WE truly need to return to massive lovely amounts of bible reading . Learn that pattern well we must
and do and ensure its done and kept . The only pattern that works , IS the one JESUS set and later the apostels would keep and teach .
Which would include the pattern for if one errs and wont repent . The words of truth in that lovely bible
are words which have a taste as the greatest honey to the mouth of a lamb . They will simply love and embrace that truth .
Be encouraged .

 

[Truther]

LEts give the full reminder . IF we do sin we do have an advocate , ITS JESUS .
And if we CONFESS our sins , HE is faithful and just to forgive us . As james once said
confess ye your faults one to another and pray that ye may be healed .
I love the way paul and them approached any doctrine . Any error . It was Let all who name the name of JESUS
depart from inquity . RECKON yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin .
The approach , pattern OF JESUS works . The apostels knew that and followed HIM , aka the Spirit .
WE truly need to return to massive lovely amounts of bible reading . Learn that pattern well we must
and do and ensure its done and kept . The only pattern that works , IS the one JESUS set and later the apostels would keep and teach .
Which would include the pattern for if one errs and wont repent . The words of truth in that lovely bible
are words which have a taste as the greatest honey to the mouth of a lamb . They will simply love and embrace that truth .
Be encouraged .

Awesome!

 

[amigo de christo]

Trapped in Romans 7?

I think it reveals 2 natures in us.

This must be taught.

Folks are baffled after being saved and realizing this for the first time in their lives...


14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.


But relieved to find there is another part of them that is good...


22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

YES it does . It makes us aware of the sin that is present within our flesh , Makes it exceeding evil to us . We truly
learn to despise the evil that is present within our flesh .
WHICH will ALWAYS be present within our flesh . Oh but greater IS HE in us . FOR if we indeed have the SPIRIT
when evil thoughts of the flesh arise into our minds , THE SPIRIT IS RIGHT THERE and we are aware of how evil it is .
We want nothing to do with the evil that is in our flesh . ITS UGLY TO US . But it will be present with us so long as we live
in these bodies . Lusts will pop into those minds , BUT IF we have the SPIRIT its ugly to us and we
can cease that thought . We do not have to be slaves to sin any longer .
IF one does err, confess those faults and repent . The life in CHRIST truly makes us alive within ,
but it exposes and makes sin appear as wicked evil to us . Its like we become alive to Christ and dead to sin .
WE hate the evil present within the flesh . But let no man walk after the flesh . FOLLOW the SPIRIT
HEED its unctions , its warnings . And when any evil thought , lust or etc does from the flesh enter into the mind
Crucify it . Evil is and will be present with us , because we live in earthen bodies . BUT we dont need to beleive
we are a slave to it . GOD has made a way for us to overcome that evil . WE just need to HEED the SPIRIT .
I think one of the biggest problems that allowed folks to believe they are slaves to sin
is when folks began teaching a mindset that pointed to the flesh and said , YE WILL NEVER be able to cease it
INSTEAD of POINTING TO JESUS who can give us all we need to overcome it .

 

[Truther]

YES it does . It makes us aware of the sin that is present within our flesh , Makes it exceeding evil to us . We truly
learn to despise the evil that is present within our flesh .
WHICH will ALWAYS be present within our flesh . Oh but greater IS HE in us . FOR if we indeed have the SPIRIT
when evil thoughts of the flesh arise into our minds , THE SPIRIT IS RIGHT THERE and we are aware of how evil it is .
We want nothing to do with the evil that is in our flesh . ITS UGLY TO US . But it will be present with us so long as we live
in these bodies . Lusts will pop into those minds , BUT IF we have the SPIRIT its ugly to us and we
can cease that thought . We do not have to be slaves to sin any longer .
IF one does err, confess those faults and repent . The life in CHRIST truly makes us alive within ,
but it exposes and makes sin appear as wicked evil to us . Its like we become alive to Christ and dead to sin .
WE hate the evil present within the flesh . But let no man walk after the flesh . FOLLOW the SPIRIT
HEED its unctions , its warnings . And when any evil thought , lust or etc does from the flesh enter into the mind
Crucify it . Evil is and will be present with us , because we live in earthen bodies . BUT we dont need to beleive
we are a slave to it . GOD has made a way for us to overcome that evil . WE just need to HEED the SPIRIT .
I think one of the biggest problems that allowed folks to believe they are slaves to sin
is when folks began teaching a mindset that pointed to the flesh and said , YE WILL NEVER be able to cease it
INSTEAD of POINTING TO JESUS who can give us all we need to overcome it .

Amen, we are OVERCOMERS by the blood of the lamb.

Before Christ, we had no ability to overcome, but after salvation, we have the ability, Christ in you...

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's both, but I know what you're getting at with this so I'll beat you to it.
The "baptism of the holy spirit" as you call it is a false experience.

It is scriptural. And the Word of God is our authority.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I wasn't saying that it would. He was.

No he wasn't. He was saying God gives us power over temptation, just the opposite of what you thought.

 

[CharismaticLady]

No, those verses instruct us to cease from sin, not that we cannot backslide.

If our old man is no more, then you cannot sin, ever.

Yes, I know we can backslide, but who would want to that has experienced His presence? We still have free will to choose which is why Paul gave the commandment to not quench the Spirit, but to keep growing in Him.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Sis, Paul never voided the previous chapters, but was giving us clarity in chapter 8.

Chapter 7 was present tense in Paul's current spiritual situation.

Why would the Bible command the saints to "put off" the deeds of the flesh when they are already off?...


Ephesians 4:22-24
King James Version

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Paul has already taught in a previous chapter (4 I believe) that we are no longer under the law, and 7 is what it was like being under the law. Are you saying Paul was still under the law, or walking in the Spirit?

 

[Truther]

Paul has already taught in a previous chapter (4 I believe) that we are no longer under the law, and 7 is what it was like being under the law. Are you saying Paul was still under the law, or walking in the Spirit?

Paul defined the Law as present in the world when Romans was written.

He taught that sin and carnality, including marriage are governed by the Law.

He taught that only by walking in the Spirit is when we are free from the Law per Gal 5:18.

So, simply, the Law is present today to bring us to Christ(schoolmaster), once in Christ, we graduate from the "Law school".

If we fall back into sin(backslide), we get sent back to "Law school" to be judged by the Law.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

...an admission that you are an Acts skipper.

whatever. You are making a mountain out of an grain of sand.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You see you are still avoiding the very words of Jesus
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
Belief + baptism = salvation

Jesus didn't say believe and be saved and then get baptised.
Where does scripture say "Water Baptism is a public declaration of the inward reality and commitment that has taken place already"?
Answer - it doesn't

Jesus said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
Baptism is the normal way of salvation that Jesus gave us.

People who don't believe in baptismal regeneration always try and avoid this text juist as you have done.

and people who require some kind of work to be saved avoid the fact that Paul said we are saved by grace through faith---Period.

also that God didn't send Paul to Baptize.

Yes we are baptized at salvation- Baptized in and by the Holy Spirit!

So you reject the salvation of the penitent thief then.

1 Corinthians 1:13-18
King James Version

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Romans 1:16
King James Version

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:9
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

According to you Paul was misleading in these statements.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Mungo]

and people who require some kind of work to be saved avoid the fact that Paul said we are saved by grace through faith---Period.

also that God didn't send Paul to Baptize.

Yes we are baptized at salvation- Baptized in and by the Holy Spirit!

So you reject the salvation of the penitent thief then.

1 Corinthians 1:13-18
King James Version

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Romans 1:16
King James Version

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:9
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

According to you Paul was misleading in these statements.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

You see you are still avoiding the very words of Jesus
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
Belief + baptism = salvation

Jesus didn't say believe and be saved and then get baptised.
Where does scripture say "Water Baptism is a public declaration of the inward reality and commitment that has taken place already"?
Answer - it doesn't

Jesus said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
Baptism is the normal way of salvation that Jesus gave us.

People who don't believe in baptismal regeneration always try and avoid this text just as you have done thrice now..

 

[CharismaticLady]

Paul defined the Law as present in the world when Romans was written.

He taught that sin and carnality, including marriage are governed by the Law.

He taught that only by walking in the Spirit is when we are free from the Law per Gal 5:18.

So, simply, the Law is present today to bring us to Christ(schoolmaster), once in Christ, we graduate from the "Law school".

If we fall back into sin(backslide), we get sent back to "Law school" to be judged by the Law.

Of course the law was present. Only through Jesus does one enter into the New Covenant. Now are you still in the Old Covenant and are struggling, or have you received the power of the Holy Spirit and are now walking in the Spirit? Because if one doesn't have the Spirit inside them, they do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9.

What I object to with you, is your insistence that Romans 7 applied to Paul as if he didn't have the Spirit. We go from death to life, we do not have two natures at the same time. We need to stay in the Spirit and endure there to the end.