How does the Body of Christ Mature?

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Marilyn C

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`...when He the Spirit of Truth has come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH.` (John 16: 13)


`...till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God..` (Eph. 4: 13)

The Truths of Christ.

Salvation through Christ`s finished work on the cross. (not by works)

Holy living by the Holy Spirit. (not by man`s effort)

Identifying with Christ`s death through water baptism. (not infant sprinkling)

Receiving Christ`s Holy Spirit for guidance and empowerment. (not rituals of men)

Receiving Christ`s (5) ministry gifts of men. (not traditions of men)

Believing Christ`s eternal purposes for rulership in God`s great kingdom. (not just the earth)
 

Randy Kluth

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Hi Randy,

I think we can agree that the denominations tend to try and contain the truth that the Holy Spirit has clarified. However, we have the Lord`s own purpose that His Body will be led into ALL TRUTH.

`.....when He the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth....` (John 16: 13)

Then the Lord tells us that He will mature His Body -

`...till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect, (mature) to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.` (Eph. 4: 13)

Important to remember that the Body of Christ is a heavenly nation and NOT an earthly one.

`But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvellous light; who were not a people but are now the people of God,...` (1 Peter 2: 9 & 10)

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn, I understand why you emphasize a "heavenly nation" instead of an earthly one. However, I don't believe there is a heavenly nation. "Nations" only exist on earth, and God has called them into being not because they encapsulate the "true Church" but only because they provide a means of bringing the true Church into existence.

Also, the call to bring the Church into the unity of the faith is not an historical goal for the Church, but rather, the unceasing pursuit of the Church for maturity. We all, in every generation, pursue maturity. It is not just some historical event in which all Christians on earth finally achieve unity. That is more akin with the false World Council of Churches, an organization of churches across several theological spectrums that actually compromise truth instead of unite in truth.
 

Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn, I understand why you emphasize a "heavenly nation" instead of an earthly one. However, I don't believe there is a heavenly nation. "Nations" only exist on earth, and God has called them into being not because they encapsulate the "true Church" but only because they provide a means of bringing the true Church into existence.

Also, the call to bring the Church into the unity of the faith is not an historical goal for the Church, but rather, the unceasing pursuit of the Church for maturity. We all, in every generation, pursue maturity. It is not just some historical event in which all Christians on earth finally achieve unity. That is more akin with the false World Council of Churches, an organization of churches across several theological spectrums that actually compromise truth instead of unite in truth.

Hi Randy,

I agree as per trying for all organisations to have the same theology. That is not what God`s word is meaning. Instead, the Lord is bringing His true believers to stand for those truths I posted. Then in the Lord`s timing He will come for His Body of believers and take us to His own throne in glory. (Rev. 3: 21)
 

Randy Kluth

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Hi Randy,

I agree as per trying for all organisations to have the same theology. That is not what God`s word is meaning. Instead, the Lord is bringing His true believers to stand for those truths I posted. Then in the Lord`s timing He will come for His Body of believers and take us to His own throne in glory. (Rev. 3: 21)

I'm not sure the point is to arrive at some point in history where the Church achieves some level of perfection. Rather, this is the goal, as I stated, in every generation, in every nation, in every Christian individual.

The thing that determines the time of the end is the coming to completion of things God has promised must happen to prepare for Christ's Kingdom. This includes the preaching of the Gospel to all nations, and the founding of many nations for Christ. It also involves bringing to an end the time of Israel's national punishment. Finally, it has to do with Christian nations backsliding, just as it happened for Israel.

When AntiChristianity overcomes traditional Christian territory in Europe and elsewhere, then we can safely say that we're nearing the end. This is a signal for Christ to come back and deliver God's plan from Satan's attempt to exterminate the Church.

It isn't all about our becoming perfect, but rather, about our ability to retain our faith in the midst of adversity. And we only do that by remaining centered in Christ as Christians. This is our unity of faith, centered in Christ himself.
 
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marks

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Hi Mark,

So, appreciate your encouraging `ticks.` Now, while we `keep the unity of the Spirit,` with our Christ-like attitude developed by the Holy Spirit, there is ALSO the very important aspect (that I`m trying to bring out here), of the `unity of the faith, ` (Eph. 4: 13).

This is NOT based on the lowest denominator but on ALL the truths that the Holy Spirit has clarified over the centuries to the believers. We, today have ALL the truths that Paul gave to the Ephesians, (the whole counsel of God. Acts 20: 27). Some believers are standing for the truth of salvation by faith in Christ, some are standing for the truth of adult baptism, and some believers are standing for the other truths of the infilling of the Holy Spirit etc. These are all part of Christ`s work in His Body.

The last great truth to be clarified across the Body is the eternal purposes of God for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. Some people believe that we will all be on earth together while the truth is that each group have their part in God`s great Kingdom rulership. That is why the eschatology section is a hot spot, for there is a real `battle` for the truth going on there. Remember a few decades ago it was the infilling of the Holy Spirit that was the `battle` ground. each truth has had to be `fought` over, (with the truth in love presented.)

What have you seen over the years in this regard, Mark?

That could be, perhaps. I've seen more how these doctrinal trends in understanding seem to take place over the centuries. First things in the early church, Who exactly is Jesus, and what exactly are the new Scriptures. These days the leading edge of study and debate seems to be in eschatology, and I think that understanding Israel and the Church are key to understanding the Last Things.

But to the topic of maturity in the Body of Christ, these are some of my thoughts.

Ephesians 4:1-3 KJV
1) I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2) With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3) Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

I think this best describes how God intends we wll act towards each other.

"Endeavoring to keep the unity" He writes as if we are already unified, while later he will write, "til we all come to the unity . . ." Like many things in Scripture concerning our salvation, the Bible speaks in terms that we already possess what we have yet to obtain.

The Spirit unifies us, it's we who divide ourselves. What God has joined together let no man separate. Spiritually, we are made one in the Holy Spirit. In our flesh, we divide because of the same reasons we do anything wrong that we do, pride and envy.

Walk worthy of your vocation - what God has called you to do, do.

But this is how, with all lowliness. Maybe I have all the right answers. Maybe I can do all the right works. Maybe I have the faith to move the mountain. Yet outside of the Lord, I know exactly who and what I am. And that is not anything I care to share! Outside of Him. In Christ, He transforms me, and If I can keep myself out of His way, maybe something good can happen!

Meekness . . . intentionally gentle. Longsuffering . . . makrothumia . . . enduring great angst. Forebearing, putting up with each other.

Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit.

My first aim is to keep the unity of the Spirit, by being humble, remembering my contribution here may be worthless, only, may God give some value! Being meek, I could just hammer the other guy, I've got the verses, and he's got the faulty argument, but no, work with him, try to help him to see. Longsuffering, explain as many times as needed, show the Scriptures over and over until understanding comes. Forebearing, I don't have to call attention to every insult, every fallacy, let others have the same opportunity to be wrong without castigation, as I desire the same! Always remembering I could be wrong, I could be shown the fool, and if I am, I'll have gained.

These are how we keep out of the way of the Holy Spirit as we mature together in the body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:11-13 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

When we are out of the way, Jesus builds His church just as He said. He builds, we divide. If we are not dividing, we are either given to the church for the purpose of maturing the saints, in these various ways towards the work of serving, towards the building of the body of Christ.

I love to think about words, get the fulness, edify, this is like edifice, an elaborate or imposing building, to edify is to make us into an edifice. The living temple.

Ephesians 4:13-15 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Faith, and knowledge of the Son of God, unto a mature man . . . or should we read this as the unity of faith and of the knowledge of the son of God, meaning the Christian? Unto a mature man, who measures up the stature - the full grown man - of the fulness of Christ.

This is where we begin.

This is a maturity that aren't blown about by every weird idea, or every wicked man who perverts the Gospel. We are settled in what we know, comfortable, and our knowledge, and our faith are not such that we divide, instead, we gather together.

We do as Jesus did, we don't cry out in the streets, we don't break bruised reeds, we don't snuff out smoldering wicks. Personally I see it this way.

The faith and knowledge of the Son of God speak towards Jesus' trust in the Father, and His willingness to set His Own interests entirely aside, just trusting that what the Father gives Him is what is good for Him, no more, no less, and fully content from the heart with that. It's speak to what He was doing in this world, serving others, given entirely to others. No personal interest, only serving mankind bringing reconciliation to God.

As I think about the faith and knowledge of the son of God, the Christian, that speaks to me of believing in what God has done with us, justification, reconciliation, sanctification, I'm a man with a mission, sent by God, with His power fulfilling His purpose, in His way.

Ephesians 4:24 KJV
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

As I've studied the word translated "true holiness", it's not the normal word for holy, instead, a word described as meaning "the eternal principles of right", also describes as, “the divine consecration and inner truth of righteousness”. This is literally "Holiness of the truth", that is, truth in us makes us consecrated to God's eternal principles,

Ephesians 4:20-23 KJV
20) But ye have not so learned Christ;
21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that you can show by testing the good and perfect - complete - will of God.

Romans 5:1-5 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

The love of God is "out poured" "into our hearts", I see in this God's intention, He pours His love into us so that it will pour out of us.

Ephesians 4:15-16 KJV
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

And they'll know we are Christians by our love!

Much love!
 
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marks

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`...when He the Spirit of Truth has come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH.` (John 16: 13)

`...till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God..` (Eph. 4: 13)

The Truths of Christ.

Salvation through Christ`s finished work on the cross. (not by works)

Holy living by the Holy Spirit. (not by man`s effort)

Identifying with Christ`s death through water baptism. (not infant sprinkling)

Receiving Christ`s Holy Spirit for guidance and empowerment. (not rituals of men)

Receiving Christ`s (5) ministry gifts of men. (not traditions of men)

Believing Christ`s eternal purposes for rulership in God`s great kingdom. (not just the earth)
Why these in particular?

Much love!
 

dev553344

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How does the Body of Christ Mature.

The Apostle Paul gave the early disciples the whole counsel of God. They were taught the full revelation of Christ, His character and His purposes.

`For I (Paul) have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)


Here is a summary of the main truths, then the errors that came in and finally the restoring of those truths through the centuries.



1. Ministry gifts (Eph. 4: 11) - Bishops were substituted. (AD 110)


2. Holy Spirit infilling and gifts - Formalisation of worship. (3rd C)


3. Holiness - Amalgamation of Church and State. (AD 323)


4. Baptism for believers - Infant Sprinkling. (6th C)


5. Justification by Faith - Penance Indulgence. (AD 1063 / Dark Ages)


6. Reformation, Lutheran - Justification by Faith. (1517)


7. Baptist - Full Immersion. (1608)


8. Methodist - Holiness. (1738)


9. Pentecostal - Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1906)


10. Apostolic - Christ`s ministries (Eph. 4: 11) (1916) & the Eternal Purposes.


Christ`s ministries, (apostle, prophet, teacher, pastor, evangelist) develop the believers and the whole Body into spiritual maturity and understanding. They stimulate the perfecting of the `Christ life` and promote the function and ministry of each member in the Body.


When Christ ascended `He gave some (people) to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ,



Till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ......may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ.` (Eph. 4: 11 - 15)
People mature as they receive inspiration from the Holy Ghost and learn what God wants in any given situation. We are encouraged to perform in charity and love. They mature in knowledge of things from the bible and preachers. But the church is established to do all this.
 

Marilyn C

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That could be, perhaps. I've seen more how these doctrinal trends in understanding seem to take place over the centuries. First things in the early church, Who exactly is Jesus, and what exactly are the new Scriptures. These days the leading edge of study and debate seems to be in eschatology, and I think that understanding Israel and the Church are key to understanding the Last Things.

But to the topic of maturity in the Body of Christ, these are some of my thoughts.

Ephesians 4:1-3 KJV
1) I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2) With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3) Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

I think this best describes how God intends we wll act towards each other.

"Endeavoring to keep the unity" He writes as if we are already unified, while later he will write, "til we all come to the unity . . ." Like many things in Scripture concerning our salvation, the Bible speaks in terms that we already possess what we have yet to obtain.

The Spirit unifies us, it's we who divide ourselves. What God has joined together let no man separate. Spiritually, we are made one in the Holy Spirit. In our flesh, we divide because of the same reasons we do anything wrong that we do, pride and envy.

Walk worthy of your vocation - what God has called you to do, do.

But this is how, with all lowliness. Maybe I have all the right answers. Maybe I can do all the right works. Maybe I have the faith to move the mountain. Yet outside of the Lord, I know exactly who and what I am. And that is not anything I care to share! Outside of Him. In Christ, He transforms me, and If I can keep myself out of His way, maybe something good can happen!

Meekness . . . intentionally gentle. Longsuffering . . . makrothumia . . . enduring great angst. Forebearing, putting up with each other.

Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit.

My first aim is to keep the unity of the Spirit, by being humble, remembering my contribution here may be worthless, only, may God give some value! Being meek, I could just hammer the other guy, I've got the verses, and he's got the faulty argument, but no, work with him, try to help him to see. Longsuffering, explain as many times as needed, show the Scriptures over and over until understanding comes. Forebearing, I don't have to call attention to every insult, every fallacy, let others have the same opportunity to be wrong without castigation, as I desire the same! Always remembering I could be wrong, I could be shown the fool, and if I am, I'll have gained.

These are how we keep out of the way of the Holy Spirit as we mature together in the body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:11-13 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

When we are out of the way, Jesus builds His church just as He said. He builds, we divide. If we are not dividing, we are either given to the church for the purpose of maturing the saints, in these various ways towards the work of serving, towards the building of the body of Christ.

I love to think about words, get the fulness, edify, this is like edifice, an elaborate or imposing building, to edify is to make us into an edifice. The living temple.

Ephesians 4:13-15 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Faith, and knowledge of the Son of God, unto a mature man . . . or should we read this as the unity of faith and of the knowledge of the son of God, meaning the Christian? Unto a mature man, who measures up the stature - the full grown man - of the fulness of Christ.

This is where we begin.

This is a maturity that aren't blown about by every weird idea, or every wicked man who perverts the Gospel. We are settled in what we know, comfortable, and our knowledge, and our faith are not such that we divide, instead, we gather together.

We do as Jesus did, we don't cry out in the streets, we don't break bruised reeds, we don't snuff out smoldering wicks. Personally I see it this way.

The faith and knowledge of the Son of God speak towards Jesus' trust in the Father, and His willingness to set His Own interests entirely aside, just trusting that what the Father gives Him is what is good for Him, no more, no less, and fully content from the heart with that. It's speak to what He was doing in this world, serving others, given entirely to others. No personal interest, only serving mankind bringing reconciliation to God.

As I think about the faith and knowledge of the son of God, the Christian, that speaks to me of believing in what God has done with us, justification, reconciliation, sanctification, I'm a man with a mission, sent by God, with His power fulfilling His purpose, in His way.

Ephesians 4:24 KJV
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

As I've studied the word translated "true holiness", it's not the normal word for holy, instead, a word described as meaning "the eternal principles of right", also describes as, “the divine consecration and inner truth of righteousness”. This is literally "Holiness of the truth", that is, truth in us makes us consecrated to God's eternal principles,

Ephesians 4:20-23 KJV
20) But ye have not so learned Christ;
21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that you can show by testing the good and perfect - complete - will of God.

Romans 5:1-5 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

The love of God is "out poured" "into our hearts", I see in this God's intention, He pours His love into us so that it will pour out of us.

Ephesians 4:15-16 KJV
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

And they'll know we are Christians by our love!

Much love!

Hi marks,

Much there to think upon. Very good, thank you.

Just a couple of comments.

The unity of the Spirit - as you say `keep` with our attitude.

The unity of the Faith - this is in relation to the truths of Christ that we know and stand for.

Over the centuries the Holy Spirit has been clarifying these truths to people. As some receive, we find that they are often ostracised or even martyred. Today we aren`t ostracised from our fellowships or martryed for believing in adult baptism or infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Then as more believers receive the `next` truth then it goes across the body of believers. This cycle goes on for every `new` truth that the Holy Spirit reveals. Thus, today we are to stand for all those truths that many others died for. As you said Mark, to not get tossed to and fro.

So, we see that there are two areas that believers are involved in - 1) personal maturity of attitude, 2) corporate standing for the truths revealed.

Marilyn.
 

Marilyn C

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Why these in particular?

Much love!

Hi marks,

Very good question. I`ll post the Truths again so we can discuss them.

The Truths of Christ.
Salvation through Christ`s finished work on the cross. (not by works)
Holy living by the Holy Spirit. (not by man`s effort)
Identifying with Christ`s death through water baptism. (not infant sprinkling)
Receiving Christ`s Holy Spirit for guidance and empowerment. (not rituals of men)
Receiving Christ`s (5) ministry gifts of men. (not traditions of men)
Believing Christ`s eternal purposes for rulership in God`s great kingdom. (not just the earth)

These are the main truths that the Holy Spirit has guided the Body of Christ into over the centuries. We tend to think that those in the past had all these truths, but they did not. Each of these truths were `fought and died` for. Think of the different martyrs and it was for one of those truths that they died. Thus, the whole Body of Christ, made up of many individuals, are all standing for one or two or all of these truths.

To believe in Christ, means that we believe the truths of His character and His purposes. Some believers know some truths and others know more. However overall as we all stand for these truths against the lies, (as you said, not tossed to and fro) then the whole Body of Christ is standing for the truth(s) of Christ against the evil one.

Marilyn.
 

marks

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What poor taste to turn a thread of maturing of the body of Christ into potty humor.

:(
 

ScottA

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Well, you've reduced my 1000+ words to 7!

:)

Much love!
Well...actually it was John the Baptist who said it and I am just blessed to have heard it also. Since Jesus considered John to be the greatest to have ever been born of a woman...I should think his words--perhaps his life, should be of greater focus than it has been. Perhaps that would be the maturity that we should be starting with, then Christ.
 
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ScottA

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What would that look like?

Much love!
:) Now you make me smile!

I am sure there is more that could be said, but hearing and becoming that voice of one crying in the wilderness, and making straight the way of the Lord...comes to mind.

I have said it before in commenting on Paul's telling women to be silent in church, that in the context of us being the Bride of Christ, being silent in church would apply to us all men and women alike. Which can only mean that the Body should not speak, but rather the Head, whom is Christ. And this He arranged for us to be fulfilled by the Holy Spirit. So, less of us speaking, and more of Christ by the Holy Spirit. Which makes our role one of listening first, and then only speaking when we are spoke to (and through). In this way we make straight His way...instead of making our own way.
 
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Jay Ross

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What poor taste to turn a thread of maturing of the body of Christ into potty humor.

:(

AH! Marks, you are being so precious. If we are the Body of Christ, then we become the fertile field in which the seed is scattered to bring in the increase. What is the function of making a field fertile and suitable for seed to be scattered in? For it to feed the scattered seed. What was added to the fields in days gone past for the field to become fertile?

Manurer?

The church is so sanitised today, that it now controls the conversation, the humour we use and how we should behave, that it is no longer a fertile field for the minds of the people living around us, where we are scattered throughout the world, to grow in.

Many Christian discussions are so high brow, now, that they become unsuitable to be a fertile place to nurture new seed/saints in.

As Paul tells us, we all need to renew our minds and then we need to put on the refurbished covering of the Body so that we become the Body of Christ that God intended us to become.

This means that we as the Body of Christ need to be prepared to get our hands dirty in the fertile field of Christ. We, "Christians" need to be taught on the Mountain of Christ, that came down out of heaven as a small Rock, to become the largest mountain in all of the world, so that when people gaze on us, they do not see us, but Christ in us.

We need to get down and dirty so that we become relevant to the people, we rub shoulders with, on a daily basis. We need to be prepared to die in Christ, so that God is Glorified in our dying to self.

So many in the Church today will be separated out from the Flock that call Jesus, "Lord, Lord," as being Goats because their focus was all about getting into God's kingdom at the end of the Age of the Ages, instead of being a small part of God's kingdom now in real time now.

Oh, I suppose that I also need to be careful, not to become a Goat as well. Life is so tricky that we easily stumble in our desire to be so "perfect."

Shalom