How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

[CoreIssue]

if its over its destroyed. you can try and spin this 50 thousand different ways yet the end result is the exact same thing - destroyed.

Not per definition or the Bible.

 

[jaybird]

Not per definition or the Bible.

over and done away is the result of something that is destroyed. dont know how else to explain it, its pretty simple.

 

[mjrhealth]

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God

I guess one needs to choose whom they love and whom they would desire to be married to, the law or Christ. As HE put it

Mat_6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[Nancy]

James 2
11For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
if the law was over and done away with murder and adultery would irrelevant.

1 Corinthians 11
11 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

Jesus followed the law and Paul imitates that

9And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!

what Jesus says of those that reject the commandments of His Father.

Jesus gave us 2 Laws which when followed will encompass all the others. Why would He have even had to die for payment for our sins if we could possibly keep His Law? ONLY He could keep it. As we grow in Him, we learn from our hearts to hate sin as He does. hence less and less sin in our lives as we become more and more like Jesus. If you say you are saved by keeping the Law, you are really saying "I am saving myself through my lawkeeping".

8 Howbeit if ye fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: 9 but if ye have respect of persons, ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is become guilty of all.

 

[CoreIssue]

We still have the law conscience in the blood covenant given by Jesus

 

[jaybird]

Jesus gave us 2 Laws which when followed will encompass all the others. Why would He have even had to die for payment for our sins if we could possibly keep His Law? ONLY He could keep it. As we grow in Him, we learn from our hearts to hate sin as He does. hence less and less sin in our lives as we become more and more like Jesus. If you say you are saved by keeping the Law, you are really saying "I am saving myself through my lawkeeping".

8 Howbeit if ye fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: 9 but if ye have respect of persons, ye commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is become guilty of all.

when Jesus gave those two laws He said all laws hinge on these two laws, not two laws and do away with the rest.

 

[Nancy]

when Jesus gave those two laws He said all laws hinge on these two laws, not two laws and do away with the rest.

Yes, of course! The rest of the Law hangs on those two. Which is what I paraphrased "...which when followed will encompass all the others."

 

[Helen]

when Jesus gave those two laws He said all laws hinge on these two laws, not two laws and do away with the rest.

That is not what Nancy said.
LOVE fulfils the laws...when we keep the TWO, then we ATRE keeping the TEN.

 

[Nancy]

That is not what Nancy said.
LOVE fulfils the laws...when we keep the TWO, then we ATRE keeping the TEN.

Ah, simplicity. It's just too much for some.

 

[CoreIssue]

if its over its destroyed. you can try and spin this 50 thousand different ways yet the end result is the exact same thing - destroyed.



the Essenes of Qumran were a new covenant community, they were still Jews and they still obeyed the law.

Israel didnt reject Jesus the secular and religious leadership rejected Jesus, this would be about half of one percent of the people.

the church is those that follow what Jesus taught.



just so i understand this correctly, rome kills Jesus, and the response from the Most High, move the church to rome? WOW!
BTW James lead the first church and it was in Jerusalem and lead by a Jew. IMO this church was not new or the first, it was the same church as always just brought back to what it had fallen from. and rome destroyed it to.
and one more interesting fact about rome. before and after they "became" Christian their destruction and brutality on other people never changed.

The Essenes isolated themselves from the rest of the world. They practiced celibacy and other things Jesus and the apostles never taught.

They placed Mosaic law over the teachings of the apostles and Christ and saw their movement as the fulfillment of OT prophecies.

Holding them up as an example doesn't work.

They were not Christian at any point in time and the community was destroyed in 68 AD.

 

[jaybird]

The Essenes isolated themselves from the rest of the world. They practiced celibacy and other things Jesus and the apostles never taught.

They placed Mosaic law over the teachings of the apostles and Christ and saw their movement as the fulfillment of OT prophecies.

Holding them up as an example doesn't work.

They were not Christian at any point in time and the community was destroyed in 68 AD.

The Essenes separated themselves from places like Jerusalem to set up a community free from the debauchery that as going on there such as their community leaders did not believe in giving orders to kill innocent children.

They taught chastity vowes, no oaths, new covenant, put extra emphasis on baptism, held all things in common, believed a leader should humble himself before a common person and much more. All things that Jesus and the 12 taught and did and they are the only other sect that practiced such things at the time of Jesus.

No they were not Christians, Christians didnt exist at the time of Jesus, the 12 and the Essenes.

And yes they vanished around 70 AD, the same time the church of Jerusalem (lead by James) vanished.

 

[CoreIssue]

The Essenes separated themselves from places like Jerusalem to set up a community free from the debauchery that as going on there such as their community leaders did not believe in giving orders to kill innocent children.

They taught chastity vowes, no oaths, new covenant, put extra emphasis on baptism, held all things in common, believed a leader should humble himself before a common person and much more. All things that Jesus and the 12 taught and did and they are the only other sect that practiced such things at the time of Jesus.
They thought they were the fulfillment of prophecy, not Jesus

Which the new covenant did they teach? The one to the houses of Judah and Israel does not exist yet

No they were not Christians, Christians didnt exist at the time of Jesus, the 12 and the Essenes.

And yes they vanished around 70 AD, the same time the church of Jerusalem (lead by James) vanished.

So you cannot use them as evidence for what you're claiming about law.

They did coexist Christianity for from the cross on

 

[jaybird]

So you cannot use them as evidence for what you're claiming about law.

They did coexist Christianity for from the cross on

im using them as an example of a sect that used teaching similar to that of Jesus and the 12 and they obeyed the law.

 

[CoreIssue]

im using them as an example of a sect that used teaching similar to that of Jesus and the 12 and they obeyed the law.

They did not use teachings similar to that of Jesus and the 12 apostles. And they had practices that were neither in the old or New Testament.

 

[Nancy]

We still have the law conscience in the blood covenant given by Jesus

Yes, from the heart, through the Grace of God. It is out of gratitude, sincere gratitude for what He has done for us. We desire His will in our lives which means we live in constant gratitude of what He has done and still does for us. Not as an obligation to the letter but joyfully fulfilling His will.
In His Name,
nancy

 

[jaybird]

They did not use teachings similar to that of Jesus and the 12 apostles. And they had practices that were neither in the old or New Testament.

i just posted them before.

again:
They taught chastity vowes, no oaths, new covenant, put extra emphasis on baptism, held all things in common, believed a leader should humble himself before a common person and much more. All things that Jesus and the 12 taught and did and they are the only other sect that practiced such things at the time of Jesus.

 

[CoreIssue]

i just posted them before.

again:
They taught chastity vowes, no oaths, new covenant, put extra emphasis on baptism, held all things in common, believed a leader should humble himself before a common person and much more. All things that Jesus and the 12 taught and did and they are the only other sect that practiced such things at the time of Jesus.

What new covenant?

 

[Marymog]

Amen, well said.
For years it has bugged me how 'they' nag the Good News 'at people' ...and amazingly they manage turn the Good News into bad news and as you say...just make it a law..

Good thread Dave.

Hi BG,

What do you mean by "law"?

Mary