How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

[justbyfaith]

This is sight faith I described above. All of the elect will have Holy Spirit faith.

Next time, clarify that from the beginning. People might not have understood that unless I had brought it out.

 

[Dave L]

Next time, clarify that from the beginning. People might not have understood that unless I had brought it out.

I'm still not sure it was a mistake. But if you think so, let it lay.

 

[Willie T]

Next time, clarify that from the beginning. People might not have understood that unless I had brought it out.

"You really don't need to belabour the point..."

 

[justbyfaith]

"You really don't need to belabour the point..."

Ha! I was actually following your example...! :cool:

 

[Willie T]

Ha! I was actually following your example...! :cool:

Glad to see you can learn.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm still not sure it was a mistake. But if you think so, let it lay.

While this is off-topic I had mentioned it recently. Too many writers have a problem with lie, lay, lain, laid, etc. The correct term would be "let it lie" (since lay is past tense e.g. "It lay there for a long time").

 

[justbyfaith]

Except that it might be confusing since lie is a homonym of lie.

 

[Dave L]

While this is off-topic I had mentioned it recently. Too many writers have a problem with lie, lay, lain, laid, etc. The correct term would be "let it lie" (since lay is past tense e.g. "It lay there for a long time").

Present tense
We'll start with the easiest tense. When you're talking about doing something right now, you:

• "Lay the book on your nightstand."

or

• "Lie on the chaise lounge and work on your tan."

Do I Use Lay or Lie? Let's Get it Straight

 

[logabe]

Neither was the Mosaic covenant for salvation.

Was Moses saved?

 

[logabe]

According to Scripture ISRAELITES = JEWS = ISRAEL

Romans 2:28-29 says,

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Wow! According to Paul, a true Jew is one inwardly. In other words, it has nothing to do with genetics unless we are talking about fleshly Jews. No wonder the Jews wanted to kill Paul.

 

[justbyfaith]

Was Moses saved?

Moses was saved the same way Abraham was in Genesis 15:6.

 

[logabe]

Moses was saved the same way Abraham was in Genesis 15:6.

Oh... you had me worried for a little bit. And how was Abraham saved?

 

[OzSpen]

What you are missing is this. We are all spiritually dead. God creates life in us when we hear the gospel. Just as he spoke the universe into existence. You come to life and naturally believe what you are hearing. The gospel announces whoever believes has (present active tense) eternal life.

I'm missing no such thing. You are missing the content of Titus 2:11 (ESV), 'For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people'.

 

[OzSpen]

Did Lazarus want to come out of the tomb when Jesus raised him from the dead? Aren't we the same when Jesus raises us from the dead speaking life into us through the gospel.

Poor illustration!

 

[OzSpen]

Anything based on meeting conditions is a law or contract. Salvation is a free gift given to those who cannot believe and would never want to agree to the terms of a contract. God creates new life in them through the spoken word and from that point on they believe and want to live a holy life.

You avoid the issues I raise regarding God's salvation and human free will, so you can spin off into what you want to talk about.

I don't buy into your tactics.

 

[OzSpen]

They all stand condemned by the light they have, but none are saved.

The gazillions are without excuse when they stand before God. What have they done with the light given to them?

 

[OzSpen]

Again, I answered all of your posts proving that free will turns the gospel into law.

'The "elect" are the "whosoever-will," and the 'non-elect" are the "whosoever-wonts"' (Sam P Jones).

Revelation 22:17 (NIRV) confirms this: 'The Holy Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And the person who hears should say, “Come!” Anyone who is thirsty should come. Anyone who wants to take the free gift of the water of life should do so'

 

[OzSpen]

Do you believe God is going to drag all people to Himself, because Jesus was lifted upon the cross? Or maybe people's free will is more powerful than God's Will and testament?

logabe,

Since when did 'draw' mean 'drag'?

Leading Greek exegete of the 20th century, Dr A. T. Robertson wrote of John 12:32:

Will draw all men unto myself (panta elkusw pro emauton). Future active of elkuw, late form of elkw, to draw, to attract. Jesus had already used this verb of the Father's drawing power ( Luke 6:44 ). The magnetism of the Cross is now known of all men, however little they understand the mystery of the Cross. By "all men" (panta) Jesus does not mean every individual man, for some, as Simeon said ( Luke 2:34 ) are repelled by Christ, but this is the way that Greeks (verse Jo 12:22) can and will come to Christ, by the way of the Cross, the only way to the Father (14:6) [Bible Study Tools].
​

Oz

 

[justbyfaith]

Oh... you had me worried for a little bit. And how was Abraham saved?

"Abraham believed in the LORD, and it was counted to him for righteousness."

 

[CoreIssue]

"Abraham believed in the LORD, and it was counted to him for righteousness."

Righteousness is not salvation. No OT was born again into the resurrection.