How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

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Dave L

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Wait a minute...I thought that He creates new life in them and then they believe through the spoken word....
It's not locked in. Cornelius and many Jews were born again long before they heard the gospel. As I also was. But the norm is regeneration through the spoken word.
 
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Dave L

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"... And when he comes, (The Holy Spirit) he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment"
No amount of teaching, or preaching of Gods Word will bring ANYONE to Christ, ONLY the Holy Spirit can do that.
This happens mostly through hearing the gospel. But some exceptions exist.
 
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justbyfaith

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It's not locked in. Cornelius and many Jews were born again long before they heard the gospel. As I also was. But the norm is regeneration through the spoken word.
So we are quickened by the Holy Spirit so that we can hear, and then regeneration comes through the hearing of faith?

This is what I was saying all along, with Romans 5:1-2.
 
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Dave L

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So we are quickened by the Holy Spirit so that we can hear, and then regeneration comes through the hearing of faith?

This is what I was saying all along, with Romans 5:1-2.
Quickened = regeneration. Jesus' words are Spirit and life.
 

justbyfaith

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Quickened = regeneration. Jesus' words are Spirit and life.
I'm not so sure that quickened = regeneration: especially if someone can gain faith by hearing and regeneration is the effect. If someone cannot hear apart from being quickened, and quickened = regeneration, then I cannot hear apart from regeneration, which would make it impossible for anyone to believe apart from already being saved/born again/regenerated; since your contention is that the dead cannot hear.

Based on 1 Corinthians 2:14, I would say that quickened = being made able to think beyond the natural mind.
 
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Dave L

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I'm not so sure that quickened = regeneration: especially if someone can gain faith by hearing and regeneration is the effect. If someone cannot hear apart form being quickened, and quickened = regeneration, then I cannot hear apart from regeneration, which would make it impossible for anyone to believe apart from already being saved/born again/regenerated; since your contention is that the dead cannot hear.

Based on 1 Corinthians 2:14, I would say that quickened = being made able to think beyond the natural mind.
It is all part of the whole. Jesus raises us from the spiritually dead just as he did Lazarus from among the dead. Lazarus heard Jesus speak. So both were instrumental in his resurrection.
 

farouk

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I'm not so sure that quickened = regeneration: especially if someone can gain faith by hearing and regeneration is the effect. If someone cannot hear apart from being quickened, and quickened = regeneration, then I cannot hear apart from regeneration, which would make it impossible for anyone to believe apart from already being saved/born again/regenerated; since your contention is that the dead cannot hear.

Based on 1 Corinthians 2:14, I would say that quickened = being made able to think beyond the natural mind.
Well, the term quickened - as in Ephesians 2, for example - means made alive.
 
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justbyfaith

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Well, the term quickened - as in Ephesians 2, for example - means made alive.
So then, if the dead cannot hear, as has been contended, then one must be born again (made alive) before he or she can "hear" the gospel unto faith for salvation/being born again.
 
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logabe

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According to Scripture ISRAELITES = JEWS = ISRAEL

Why did God have to separate prophesies? One for the southern kingdom and the other for the northern kingdom if they were both Israelites. It's very important that we understand that if we want to know the purpose and the plan of God.
 

logabe

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Which begs the question, "How is a man born again?" or, "What must I do to be saved?"

I am interested in your answer to this question if the answer is not "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household."

Because doesn't faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord?

How is a man born again?
 

logabe

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Lobage,

It's a shame you didn't read the remainder of John's Gospel: 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself' (John 12:32 NIV).

Now, please harmonise the verse you quoted, John 6:44 with John 12:32.

Oz

Do you believe God is going to drag all people to Himself, because Jesus was lifted upon the cross? Or maybe people's free will is more powerful than God's Will and testament?
 

Enoch111

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Why did God have to separate prophesies? One for the southern kingdom and the other for the northern kingdom if they were both Israelites. It's very important that we understand that if we want to know the purpose and the plan of God.
It was SIN that caused Israel to split into the kingdom of Judah (2 tribes) and the kingdom of Israel (10 tribes). So that was NOT the plan and purpose of God in the least. Just as the appointment of Saul as king over Israel was not God's plan and purpose.

But God still sees all 12 tribes as Israel and that is exactly what will be found on earth in the redeemed and restored kingdom of Israel under Christ (during and after the Millennium).

But even BEFORE the Millennium God wants us to know that He sees the twelve tribes as "Israel", and therefore we have them all listed in Revelation 7 (a prophecy of a future event).

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
 

justbyfaith

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A person can believe and not be one of the elect (Luke 8:13); because their faith is not destined to endure to the end.
 
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Dave L

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A person can believe and not be one of the elect (Luke 8:13); because their faith is not destined to endure to the end.
In scripture there are two types of faith. Head (sight) faith which resides in the flesh. You read an ad, believe it is true and buy the product on this type of faith. This is not saving faith and was often based on seeing miracles, or eye sight. Today some churches use physical stimuli to build sight faith.

Then there is heart faith, a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It does better without the physical props that tend to sight faith. This faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, is strengthened by the word, and works by love. It trusts in Jesus alone for salvation and performs good works in thanksgiving to God and in love for others.
 
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justbyfaith

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It remains that there is a certain type of believing that does not translate into the person believing being one of the elect.
 
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Dave L

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It remains that there is a certain type of believing that does not translate into the person believing being one of the elect.
This is sight faith I described above. All of the elect will have Holy Spirit faith.