How is Jesus Firstborn from the dead?
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Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
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• 2Kings 2:11 . . And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that,
behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them
both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
The Hebrew word translated "heaven" is shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim) a very
common word throughout the Old Testament for sky, for example:
• Gen 1:1 . . In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The heavens speak of all that can be seen when looking up with either the
naked eye or a telescope-- not only the clouds and Boeing 747s, but the
stars too; for example:
• Gen 15:5 . . And he brought him forth abroad, and said: Look now toward
heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them
I don't think it's safe to insist that Elijah's chariot flew all the way to God's
abode. It's more likely that the phenomenon was just Elijah's transportation
to wherever it is that Enoch was taken.
• Gen 5:24 . . Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God
took him away.
* In my opinion, if there ever was someone in the Old Testament that God
would've liked to bring home to His abode, it was Abraham. He's one of the
few people in the Old Testament actually said to be one of God's buddies.
(isa 41:8) But even as favored a man as he was, Abe ended up in the same
afterlife sphere as the rich man of Luke 16:19-31.
_
• 2Kings 2:11 . . And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that,
behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them
both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
The Hebrew word translated "heaven" is shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim) a very
common word throughout the Old Testament for sky, for example:
• Gen 1:1 . . In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The heavens speak of all that can be seen when looking up with either the
naked eye or a telescope-- not only the clouds and Boeing 747s, but the
stars too; for example:
• Gen 15:5 . . And he brought him forth abroad, and said: Look now toward
heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them
I don't think it's safe to insist that Elijah's chariot flew all the way to God's
abode. It's more likely that the phenomenon was just Elijah's transportation
to wherever it is that Enoch was taken.
• Gen 5:24 . . Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God
took him away.
* In my opinion, if there ever was someone in the Old Testament that God
would've liked to bring home to His abode, it was Abraham. He's one of the
few people in the Old Testament actually said to be one of God's buddies.
(isa 41:8) But even as favored a man as he was, Abe ended up in the same
afterlife sphere as the rich man of Luke 16:19-31.
_
I didn’t insist anything.
But I think it’s more sense to think God probably took him to be where God was rather than God deposited him somewhere else.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Abraham described his own situation as a place of comfort. (Luke 16:25) But
then, I'm a retired welder; we're not especially admired for our intelligence.
_
Abraham described his own situation as a place of comfort. (Luke 16:25) But
then, I'm a retired welder; we're not especially admired for our intelligence.
_
Last edited:
I’ve read your posts over some years. You are not unintelligent.
I wouldn’t just assume that, in that parable, they are the actual Abraham and Lazarus of the old and new testaments…
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Elijah wrote a letter to the king, 10 years( 2Chronicles 21:12-15) after the chariot event. He was retired and went to another part of the earth and Elisha took over as Gods prophet. Remember God created the heavens and the earth--3 mentions of heavens in the bible. 1) our atmosphere 2) outer space 3) Gods dwelling place.
He could have gotten that letter before.The Bible jumps around in time in a lot of places. I just can't see God moving him to a different area of the earth. What would be the purpose..
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
The Bible says the letter came from Elijah, but doesn't say Elijah delivered it
nor does the Bible say when he wrote it.
Moses' authorship of the book of Deuteronomy is sometimes challenged
because within it he appears to have written the story of his own death
and burial before he died.
_
The Bible says the letter came from Elijah, but doesn't say Elijah delivered it
nor does the Bible say when he wrote it.
Moses' authorship of the book of Deuteronomy is sometimes challenged
because within it he appears to have written the story of his own death
and burial before he died.
_
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
The Only Begotten Son of God wasn't immortal in heaven with God before he became human. A person who is immortal can't die, death has no hold on any person who is immortal. The angels in heaven are mortal beings. The scriptures show that the angel that became Satan the Devil and those angels who sided with him, his demons, are mortal and will be destroyed out of existence when they're thrown into the lake of fire just as when death, and Hades(the Grave) are thrown into the lake of fire are destroyed out of existence. When Jesus became human he was still mortal. The Only Begotten Son of God was mortal in heaven before he became a human being but Jesus sacrificed that mortal human being and at his resurrection he was changed from a mortal corruptible human to a immortal incorruptible life giving spirit.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is the "seed" that created Jesus in the womb of the Virgin Mary.
So, you are, i think, trying to speak about the genealogy of Jesus.
It can be traced using Mary or Joseph.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
He was old and retiring. Elisha took over as Prophet. I am sure being a prophet of God weighs heavily on ones heart and mind.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
The fact no man ever entered heaven( Gods dwelling place prior to Jesus) John 3:13-proves Elijah was not taken to Gods dwelling place during that chariot event.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
The being God sent was a spirit being before coming to earth and named Jesus as a mortal. All angels are spirit beings. The fact Jesus didnt have immortality prior to his successful earthly course proves 100% God did not come to earth. God sent another as the bible teaches=the speaker at Proverbs 8 is that being.
Curious, HOW YOU were naturally born Believing and Obeying God, (ie NOT in SIN).
Pss 51:
[5] Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Gods word came forth OUT from Gods mouth.
God Prepared a BODY for His Word and Sent that holy thing to Earth.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
What thing...oh ya, a virgin womb.
Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Did that holy thing accomplish that which pleased God in Heaven?
John 19:
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Don’t know about you, but I account Gods Word to being God, and your word to being you.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
The Bible says the letter came from Elijah, but doesn't say Elijah delivered it
nor does the Bible say when he wrote it.
Moses' authorship of the book of Deuteronomy is sometimes challenged
because within it he appears to have written the story of his own death
and burial before he died.
_
The Bible says the letter came from Elijah, but doesn't say Elijah delivered it
nor does the Bible say when he wrote it.
Moses' authorship of the book of Deuteronomy is sometimes challenged
because within it he appears to have written the story of his own death
and burial before he died.
_
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I wasn't in any way saying it was God who came to mankind. I've always have believed the Word that became flesh/human was the Only Begotten Son of God. Yes angels are spirit beings but that doesn't mean they're immortal. The angel that became Satan the Devil and the angels that became his demons are spirit beings but are still mortal. The scriptures show us that just as when death and Hades(gravedom) are thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed out of existence so will Satan and his demons be destroyed out of existence when thrown into the lake of fire, because they are mortal beings not immortal beings. Jesus Christ was changed from a mortal being to a immortal incorruptible life giving spirit when resurrected from the dead.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
You fail to see, YHWH(Jehovah) created all other things through the being he sent to earth. That being is his master worker who speaks at proverbs 8.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
That doesnt negate truth found at John 3:13 does it? God could have easily shown Moses his death prior to it. Isaiah wrote about Cyrus defeating babylon 200 years before it occurred.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
No you are right, Angels are not immortal, God will destroy satan and his angels in the lake of fire( Rev 20)-They arent mortal, they are spirit beings. Oh i see what you are saying by them being mortal, not as in flesh and blood but that God can kill them. Every being created was given free will, Misuse of that free will gets one destroyed.
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