How long O Lord

[Davidpt]

Why do you omit underlining "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years"? They lived and reigned in time before they were martyred.

That's referring to the time in which these martyred, headless souls in heaven were beheaded for being witnesses of Jesus and the Word of God, and did not worship the beast, or his image, and did not receive his mark. Yes, Rev 12 & 13 come to pass during this same period of time, symbolized a thousand years. John is writing of them to show that after physical death there is still a spiritual body of believers alive in heaven as living souls since the first advent of Christ.

I didn't think it was relevant at the time. Therefore, I didn't bother focusing on that part. But since you brought it up, you are insisting that they are already reigning a thousand years before they are martyred, regardless that the text is telling us that they can't even reign with Christ until they are resurrected first. Which means they die first, then they are resurrected, then they begin reigning with Christ. I'm not seeing how you think Revelation 20 favors Amil rather than Premil, in this case.

I believe both 42 months and 1260 days are equal amounts of time within the time symbolized a thousand years

How could that possibly make sense, though? Since when does comparing 42 months to a thousand years ever give the impression both amounts are equal? Obviously, in the real world, 42 months would be considered a short period of time while a thousand years would be considered a long period of time. In the real world no one would ever mistake both to equal the same amount of time.

As to this 42 months in question. It has to either precede the thousand years, or it has to follow them. It for sure can't parallel, thus equal them. Not to mention, per Amil both satan and the beast are in the pit during the thousand years. Who is it then that is making war with the saints during the thousand years per your view if Amil has satan and the beast in the pit during the thousand years?

During the thousand years there are no wars raging on, in any sense, if Revelation 20 is recording that a battle doesn't happen until after the thousand years, thus there can't be any battles during the thousand years, if battles, in any sense, can't even happen again until after the thousand years. Yet, per Amil satan can deceive nations before the thousand years, during the thousand years, and after the thousand years. Per Premil this is not possible. Per Amil satan can persecute and kill saints before the thousand years, during the thousand years, and after the thousand years. Per Amil then, what is the point of the thousand years if everything satan can do when he is not bound, he can still do these same things when he is bound?

 

[Davidpt]

You're confusing the little season the martyred souls are told they must wait with the little season Satan is given when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer. The little season the souls under the altar is given those who have already died in faith. When Satan is given his little season it will be for him to gather together Gog & Magog to come against those who of faith that are still physically alive on the earth.

Revelation chapters 12 & 13 has been on-going against Christ and His body (Christians) since he was cast out of heaven and to the earth with his minions when Christ was born.

And you are conflating a short period of time, a little season, with a long period of time, a thousand years. Not only are you doing that, from what I can tell you also have this little season beginning 2000 years ago, pretty much where you have the thousand years beginning, and that you have this little season spanning the thousand years, then apparently still continuing after the the thousand years. Which basically means you have this little season spanning 2000 years plus the time involving the loosing of satan.

Yet, according to Revelation 17, for one, the status of the beast is 'not', at the time of John seeing these visions, and that John indicated that the beast ascends out of the pit in the future. Obviously, referring to it's 42 month reign. Except you have this 42 month reign already in progress when John saw these visions, even though he indicated this 42 month reign was still future.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space(obviously, referring to this 42 month reign of the beast in question)

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit (obviously, referring to this 42 month reign of the beast in question), and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

I admit, I can't make heads or tails of your view since that is usually the case when a view is not at least agreeing with the texts involved.

 

[rwb]

I didn't think it was relevant at the time. Therefore, I didn't bother focusing on that part. But since you brought it up, you are insisting that they are already reigning a thousand years before they are martyred, regardless that the text is telling us that they can't even reign with Christ until they are resurrected first. Which means they die first, then they are resurrected, then they begin reigning with Christ. I'm not seeing how you think Revelation 20 favors Amil rather than Premil, in this case.

David, read the passage carefully. They are martyred for their faithfulness in life. When, according to John, have they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years? It was during their lifetimes that these faithful saints were martyred for their faith, not after they physically died and were bodily resurrected from the dead. Because NONE shall be bodily resurrected before an hour coming when the seventh trumpet sounds. When the last trumpet sounds, time shall be no longer for them to be faithful before they physically die.

John covers the need to have part in the first resurrection. You don't understand the first resurrection because your Premil mind cannot accept the first resurrection is not saints being physically resurrected but is the resurrection of Christ that every man MUST have part in to overcome the second death.

John first speaks of all who lived and were martyred for their faith during this time symbolized a thousand years. But not every Christian will be martyred for their faith. Some will die accidentally, through sickness or of old age. But they too through reigning with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years are called blessed and holy, have part in the first resurrection, have overcome the second death and shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This is the full embodiment of faithful saints as spiritual body of believers being in heaven after physical death. They, like Christ, were dead, but they are alive in heaven.

What does John write of the "rest of the dead", or those who are never among the living and reigning with Christ in time symbolized a thousand years? They will not live again until the thousand years expire. They are the DEAD called to stand before the throne of God to give account according to what is written in the books and the book of life. During their lifetimes, a thousand years, they never lived and reigned with Christ, but shall die in unbelief, and their fate shall be the lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[Davidpt]

David, read the passage carefully. They are martyred for their faithfulness in life. When, according to John, have they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years? It was during their lifetimes that these faithful saints were martyred for their faith, not after they physically died and were bodily resurrected from the dead. Because NONE shall be bodily resurrected before an hour coming when the seventh trumpet sounds. When the last trumpet sounds, time shall be no longer for them to be faithful before they physically die.

John covers the need to have part in the first resurrection. You don't understand the first resurrection because your Premil mind cannot accept the first resurrection is not saints being physically resurrected but is the resurrection of Christ that every man MUST have part in to overcome the second death.

John first speaks of all who lived and were martyred for their faith during this time symbolized a thousand years. But not every Christian will be martyred for their faith. Some will die accidentally, through sickness or of old age. But they too through reigning with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years are called blessed and holy, have part in the first resurrection, have overcome the second death and shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This is the full embodiment of faithful saints as spiritual body of believers being in heaven after physical death. They, like Christ, were dead, but they are alive in heaven.

What does John write of the "rest of the dead", or those who are never among the living and reigning with Christ in time symbolized a thousand years? They will not live again until the thousand years expire. They are the DEAD called to stand before the throne of God to give account according to what is written in the books and the book of life. During their lifetimes, a thousand years, they never lived and reigned with Christ, but shall die in unbelief, and their fate shall be the lake of fire that is the second death.

Roger, while I'm pondering what you submitted here before I attempt to address it, I submit the following for now. Unless Amil believes that satan and the beast are one and the same, why does Amil think the beast is in the pit? To prevent it from doing what during the thousand years? It can't be the same reason satan is in the pit, so that he can't deceive the nations, if Amil agrees that satan and the beast are not one and the same. This question probably fits one of your other posts better, but even so, I'm asking it here since it involves what we have already been discussing.

 

[rwb]

And you are conflating a short period of time, a little season, with a long period of time, a thousand years.

David, as I've come to understand "little season" it is but a short period of time. I do not conflate the little season the martyred souls under that altar must wait with the little season Satan is given after time symbolized a thousand years expires.

Satan will not have a little season until a thousand years, symbolizing an unknown amount of time between the first advent of Christ and the sounding of the seventh trumpet is finished.

 

[grafted branch]

It was during their lifetimes that these faithful saints were martyred for their faith, not after they physically died and were bodily resurrected from the dead.

They are martyred during their lifetime but they also didn’t worship the beast or his image during their lifetime. Is the beast or his image currently being worshipped by some people?

 

[Davidpt]

David, read the passage carefully. They are martyred for their faithfulness in life. When, according to John, have they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years? It was during their lifetimes that these faithful saints were martyred for their faith, not after they physically died and were bodily resurrected from the dead. Because NONE shall be bodily resurrected before an hour coming when the seventh trumpet sounds. When the last trumpet sounds, time shall be no longer for them to be faithful before they physically die.

John covers the need to have part in the first resurrection. You don't understand the first resurrection because your Premil mind cannot accept the first resurrection is not saints being physically resurrected but is the resurrection of Christ that every man MUST have part in to overcome the second death.

John first speaks of all who lived and were martyred for their faith during this time symbolized a thousand years. But not every Christian will be martyred for their faith. Some will die accidentally, through sickness or of old age. But they too through reigning with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years are called blessed and holy, have part in the first resurrection, have overcome the second death and shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This is the full embodiment of faithful saints as spiritual body of believers being in heaven after physical death. They, like Christ, were dead, but they are alive in heaven.

What does John write of the "rest of the dead", or those who are never among the living and reigning with Christ in time symbolized a thousand years? They will not live again until the thousand years expire. They are the DEAD called to stand before the throne of God to give account according to what is written in the books and the book of life. During their lifetimes, a thousand years, they never lived and reigned with Christ, but shall die in unbelief, and their fate shall be the lake of fire that is the second death.

It's not my Premil mind allegedly preventing me from understanding the first resurrection how Amils are insisting it needs to be understood. It is the following that is mainly preventing me from accepting the Amil interpretation of the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


It is mainly this part---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Who shall be? All those who have part in the first resurrection. Which then means if a saint dies during the thousand years, then goes to heaven and continues the thousand year reign there, we then have to apply-- they shall be priests of God and of Christ---to saints while in a disembodied state in heaven. Yet, that makes zero sense. That sounds extremely Catholic except I'm not Catholic. I don't believe in praying to departed saints in heaven, nor do I believe departed saints in heaven are having any kind of contact with earth inhabitants below. And that the text says that every single person during the entire thousand years, they shall be priests of God and of Christ. As if heaven above is in need of priests in this manner rather than the earth below being in need of priests in this manner.

 

[grafted branch]

It is mainly this part---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Who shall be? All those who have part in the first resurrection. Which then means if a saint dies during the thousand years, then goes to heaven and continues the thousand year reign there, we then have to apply-- they shall be priests of God and of Christ---to saints while in a disembodied state in heaven. Yet, that makes zero sense. That sounds extremely Catholic except I'm not Catholic. I don't believe in praying to departed saints in heaven, nor do I believe departed saints in heaven are having any kind of contact with earth inhabitants below. And that the text says that every single person during the entire thousand years, they shall be priests of God and of Christ. As if heaven above is in need of priests in this manner rather than the earth below being in need of priests in this manner.

I don’t see priest being listed as one of the roles in the New Testament church in the epistles or the book of Acts. Why do you think we are going to need them in a future millennium? It seems to me, unless you’re catholic, that there is only one priest and that is Christ.

 

[rwb]

Roger, while I'm pondering what you submitted here before I attempt to address it, I submit the following for now. Unless Amil believes that satan and the beast are one and the same, why does Amil think the beast is in the pit? To prevent it from doing what during the thousand years? It can't be the same reason satan is in the pit, so that he can't deceive the nations, if Amil agrees that satan and the beast are not one and the same.

Satan is the power behind all evil that comes upon the earth. This power goes by many names. In chapter 20 alone he is called, the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan. Calling Satan a beast speaks of his personality, he is like a very dangerous wild animal.

 

[rwb]

They are martyred during their lifetime but they also didn’t worship the beast or his image during their lifetime. Is the beast or his image currently being worshipped by some people?

From the beginning I see Satan, depicted as the serpent being worshipped by Adam & Eve. They heeded his voice and disobeyed God. Wouldn't you agree that at that moment they became servants to Satan, and sin and sadly their offspring would be born in the same servanthood. Mankind as long as they remain in unbelief are worshipping the beast and his image during their lifetimes.

John 8:34 (KJV) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Romans 6:16 (KJV) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[grafted branch]

From the beginning I see Satan, depicted as the serpent being worshipped by Adam & Eve. They heeded his voice and disobeyed God. Wouldn't you agree that at that moment they became servants to Satan, and sin and sadly their offspring would be born in the same servanthood. Mankind as long as they remain in unbelief are worshipping the beast and his image during their lifetimes.

John 8:34 (KJV) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Romans 6:16 (KJV) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I don’t disagree with that, in Revelation 13:7 the beast is given to make war with the saints and overcome them. Do you think this started when the fall of mankind occurred at the garden of Eden?

 

[rwb]

I don’t disagree with that, in Revelation 13:7 the beast is given to make war with the saints and overcome them. Do you think this started when the fall of mankind occurred at the garden of Eden?

How could it not have begun then? Before being bound through the first advent of Christ, he had the power to hold people in bondage to fear of death. Death that came through him was introduced into creation when through deception he deceived A&E into sin. It seems to me Satan's power can only become stronger as his deception increases throughout the whole earth. Even though he continues to make war against the saints and overcomes them, he is already a defeated foe.

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Davidpt]

I don’t disagree with that, in Revelation 13:7 the beast is given to make war with the saints and overcome them. Do you think this started when the fall of mankind occurred at the garden of Eden?

Let's not forget, Revelation 13 involves 2 beasts, not just one beast, and that one of the beasts has a deadly wound that is healed. Obviously, none of this would already be so when mankind initially fell. There was no false prophet back then doing what Revelation 13 records that he does. The beast didn't already have a deadly wound that was healed when mankind intially fell. None of these things can be true until Christ is born on the earth first, and that this beast ascends out of the pit, where John indicated that was a future event when he saw these visions.

As to this deadly wound that is healed, what caused this deadly wound to begin with? Maybe Christ dying on the cross then being resurrected caused this deadly wound? Just a guess since I don't know for certain. Assuming I'm on the right track here, regardless, it seems to me Mathew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:7 might be involving when his deadly wound is healed, where I take both of these accounts to be involving the 42 month reign of the beast recorded in Revelation 13. IOW, great tribulation recorded in both Matthew 24:21 and Daniel 12:1, are both referring to this same 42 month reign.

While I might not have all the answers, I can at least discern what can't fit, that being that what is recorded in Revelation 13, that it is not spanning an era of time that began with the fall of mankind and continues until Christ puts an end to it with His return. 42 months, whether literal or not, speaks of a short period of time, not a lengthy one, such as 2000 years nor 6000 years. And that at the time of John having seen these visions, he indicated that the beast shall ascend out of the pit in the future, meaning to me the beginning of it's 42 month reign.

 

[grafted branch]

Even though he continues to make war against the saints and overcomes them, he is already a defeated foe.

So how is Satan overcoming the saints? Before the cross they went to Sheol, so I can see how that could be considered as being overcome but now to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

I would think a believer would count it as an honor to give up their life as a testimony to their faith and in Philippians 1:20 Paul says Christ shall be magnified in his body whether by life or death.

How can Satan overcome a saint if he can’t overcome them by physically killing them?

 

[grafted branch]

Let's not forget, Revelation 13 involves 2 beasts, not just one beast, and that one of the beasts has a deadly wound that is healed. Obviously, none of this would already be so when mankind initially fell. There was no false prophet back then doing what Revelation 13 records that he does. The beast didn't already have a deadly wound that was healed when mankind intially fell. None of these things can be true until Christ is born on the earth first, and that this beast ascends out of the pit, where John indicated that was a future event when he saw these visions.

As to this deadly wound that is healed, what caused this deadly wound to begin with? Maybe Christ dying on the cross then being resurrected caused this deadly wound? Just a guess since I don't know for certain. Assuming I'm on the right track here, regardless, it seems to me Mathew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:7 might be involving when his deadly wound is healed, where I take both of these accounts to be involving the 42 month reign of the beast recorded in Revelation 13. IOW, great tribulation recorded in both Matthew 24:21 and Daniel 12:1, are both referring to this same 42 month reign.

While I might not have all the answers, I can at least discern what can't fit, that being that what is recorded in Revelation 13, that it is not spanning an era of time that began with the fall of mankind and continues until Christ puts an end to it with His return. 42 months, whether literal or not, speaks of a short period of time, not a lengthy one, such as 2000 years nor 6000 years. And that at the time of John having seen these visions, he indicated that the beast shall ascend out of the pit in the future, meaning to me the beginning of it's 42 month reign.

You’re making some good points here, I also see the conflicts with having the beast prior to the millennium being Satan and this starting with the fall of man.

 

[Davidpt]

I don’t see priest being listed as one of the roles in the New Testament church in the epistles or the book of Acts. Why do you think we are going to need them in a future millennium? It seems to me, unless you’re catholic, that there is only one priest and that is Christ.

The only thing I can think of off hand, since I strongly feel Matthew 19:28 will be involving events post His return, that being priests of God and Christ during the thousand years might be connected to this in some way.

The way I'm reasoning this in general, being priests in this manner only makes sense upon the earth, not heaven. And since Amil has the thousand years literally involving both heaven and earth, Amil can't be the correct position then, since it is ludricrous to apply their role as priests during the thousand years with that of being in heaven in a disembodied form.

Let's look at something here for a moment.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

My common sense tells me that if this angel is initially in heaven then comes down somewhere, it is then the earth he is coming down to. Which then tells me this angel is doing this after satan has been cast unto the earth. IOW, the reason the angel comes to the earth is because that is where satan is because that is where he was cast unto according to Revelation 12. That obviously means these first 3 verses in Revelation 20 are involving the earth.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


And so are these verses involving the earth. Verse 8 and 9 make that crystal clear. We then have verses 1-3 involving the earth, and have verses 7-9 involving the earth, yet we are to believe verses 4-6 are not involving the earth, but is instead involving heaven? How is that an example of interpreting things in a consistent manner? That question for Amils of course, not you since you indicated you are no longer an Amil.

 

[Timtofly]

Here’s the answer … and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

And that little season is how long?

If you say 2,000 years, where is your Scripture that claims a little season is 2,000 years?

You say the answer is a little season. You think that little season was the 40 years between the Cross and some historical event.

Then you argue that it can not be a question at the Second Coming, because we already know the answer. No, we don't know the answer. You have yet to state how long is that little season. Resting a little season is not an answer. We are still waiting for the end of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. People are still dying because of sin.

Now, can you explain who was martyred before the Cross, who needed to wait in heaven for a little season after the Cross, until more humans were martyred? Do you claim 40 years was explicitly written in Revelation 6, even though no one else can read those exact words?

They were told to rest a little season. They were not told how long that little season would be.

 

[rwb]

Let's not forget, Revelation 13 involves 2 beasts, not just one beast, and that one of the beasts has a deadly wound that is healed. Obviously, none of this would already be so when mankind initially fell. There was no false prophet back then doing what Revelation 13 records that he does. The beast didn't already have a deadly wound that was healed when mankind intially fell. None of these things can be true until Christ is born on the earth first, and that this beast ascends out of the pit, where John indicated that was a future event when he saw these visions.

Isn't that exactly what the serpent did in the beginning? Trying to get you to reason with all of Scripture, rather than trying to formulate your doctrine based on verses here and there or only from Revelation. What if the deadly wound was that which was ordained by God when the serpent was cursed by God for deceiving man and causing them to doubt the words of God and worship him? Cursed to eat dust upon his belly all the days of his life? At the same time there would be enmity between the woman's Seed (Christ) and the seed of the serpent, and the serpent's head will suffer a fatal bruise, even as he bruises the heel of Christ. Is this prophecy of Satan being bound to the earth (eating dust) when he was cast out of heaven when Christ was born?

Genesis 3:14-15 (KJV) And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[rwb]

So how is Satan overcoming the saints? Before the cross they went to Sheol, so I can see how that could be considered as being overcome but now to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

I would think a believer would count it as an honor to give up their life as a testimony to their faith and in Philippians 1:20 Paul says Christ shall be magnified in his body whether by life or death.

How can Satan overcome a saint if he can’t overcome them by physically killing them?

When Satan sits in Churches as an angel of light, he shall cause the light of Christ to shine no more at all within. When the light of Christ is removed from the Church the Gospel as a witness for Christ is silenced, or as dead. When the light of the candle shines no more in the Church the voice of the bridegroom (Christ's Gospel) is heard no more in thee. The battle Christians fight against Satan and his minions is spiritual not physical even though spiritual warfare does lead to martyrdom for our faith. I agree, physical death of believers is not to be feared because when we are physically absent from the body, we are spiritually alive with the Lord in heaven.

Revelation 18:23 (KJV) And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

 

[rwb]

The only thing I can think of off hand, since I strongly feel Matthew 19:28 will be involving events post His return, that being priests of God and Christ during the thousand years might be connected to this in some way.

The way I'm reasoning this in general, being priests in this manner only makes sense upon the earth, not heaven. And since Amil has the thousand years literally involving both heaven and earth, Amil can't be the correct position then, since it is ludricrous to apply their role as priests during the thousand years with that of being in heaven in a disembodied form.

David, I can't speak for other Amils, but I believe John speaks of these martyred saints as having lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years during their lifetimes where they were faithful unto death. Which is why they are alive in heaven a spiritual body of believers as living souls after physically dying.

The regeneration is now. Since the cross and resurrection, people of faith are being regenerated (born again) through the power of the Gospel proclaimed through the Holy Spirit. The Son of man is seated on His throne since He ascended up to the Ancient of days after His resurrection, and received His Kingdom, and faithful saints reigning with Him are proclaiming the Gospel through the power of His Spirit which brings judgment not only to the twelve tribes of Israel, but the whole world.

Matthew 19:28 (KJV) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

1 Corinthians 6:2 (KJV) Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

And so are these verses involving the earth. Verse 8 and 9 make that crystal clear. We then have verses 1-3 involving the earth, and have verses 7-9 involving the earth, yet we are to believe verses 4-6 are not involving the earth, but is instead involving heaven? How is that an example of interpreting things in a consistent manner? That question for Amils of course, not you since you indicated you are no longer an Amil.

Believers live and reign with Christ during our lifetimes, and after our life has ended, we ascend to heaven a spiritual body of believers there as living souls. All of chapter 20 is written for what shall come to pass while believers are alive on the earth. And when we are faithful to Christ unto death, we shall be spiritually with Him in heaven. The passage doesn't say anything about believers living and reigning with Christ in heaven after physical death. John only shows us that when believers physically die, death could not kill their eternal spirit that returns to God, which is why John shows us there is still spiritual life after physical death for all who die in faith. Because in life they overcame the second death by having part in the resurrection of Christ who is the first resurrection of the dead to die no more.