How many great suppers of God are there? Just one or more than one?
- Thread starter Davidpt
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Not that I might agree with your chart, but at least it's a simple chart rather than a complex one you sometimes make, thus I'm able to comprehend what you are trying to convey here. Yet, that chart in no way deals with what I submitted involving Ezekiel 39:20 and they being depicted as riding upon horses and chariots, and that literal horses and chariots couldn't possibly be meant if these things are involving the 21st century. It then begs the question, what do these things represent? And why didn't the Jews destroy these things as well if the destroying of weapons for 7 years precedes what is recorded in verse 20?
Gog/Magog does not involve all the nations of the world. So all of the military of the world's armies will not be destroyed, nor participate
7 years later, Armageddon involves all nations of the world. Plus, in countries like Russia, there will be a rebuilding effort made of their military.
The prince who shall come, right after Gog/Magog will be the little horn coming from north and west of Israel into the middle east with a strong army - Daniel 8:9. He will occupy the middle east on the premise of being peace keeper, Daniel 8:25, but with underlying reason of gaining control of all the middle east oil. He will be the leader of a ten leader European panel of leaders.
TribulationSigns
Active Member
Dan tends to have full of speculations and private interpretations regarding Gog and Magog, selling his theories through charts where God does not say. Typically the premillennialists like to think Russia will be the main player in Gog and Magog war simple because she is directly north of national Israel. Sad, this is NOT what God was prophesying about at all! He did not ask us to look for geopolitical nations as qualifications for Gog and Magog. Ezekiel 38/39, as well as Revelation 20 (they speaks about same war) applies to New Testament congregations of Israel, the Church. And our enemies aren't Russians or Iranians for we do not fight with flesh but spiritual war. So our enemies are the people of the world who PROFESS to be Christians, and yet deny the doctrine of Christ that was one delivered to the Saints. They have the spirit of antichrist, they come up into the Camp of the Saints because of Christian "unfaithfulness." These are the very people who were told of God to "not bid them Godspeed," but they thought they knew better that they should allow them communion with us. The result is as predictable and inevitable as it was for Old Testament Israel as an example!
The problem with Dan and people like him is that they were on the same page as the world, looking at things the same way the world does, with worldly eyes where we see evil empires, green trees, nations, famines, temples, swords and a golden age of peace in the world. Or to forsake the spirit of the world looking at things superficially, to discern things in the spirit of God that teaches us of the spiritual truths concerning chains, Judaea, wine, tongues, swords and nations. With men, our thinking is of course, foolishness, but with God it is thinking in wisdom. Just the opposite of foolish. The wisdom of the world vs. the wisdom of God.
1st Corinthians 2:12-14
- "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
- Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
- But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
The Spiritual nature of the Bible is self-evident to the Spirit-filled. If it's a Bible page, then it is the correct page to be on.
If you simply follow the Biblical text, and context in Revelation 20, you see that Satan was bound by Christ from deceiving the Gentiles ordained to profess Christ, for this entire millennial reign of the Lord. Not bound from deceiving the whole world, nor all the "nations" of the world. Indeed, the nations have remained deceived these last 2000 years, the Godless lawless reprobates they always were. But, the point is, satan was bound "FOR" for these Gentiles to become spiritually Jews, so that out of them the Israel of God could be sealed. Not Israel in the Middle East, but the Israel of God. This 1000 years is the whole New Testament Church period where Satan couldn't hurt until after all Israel were sealed. Or until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in. That was the whole purpose of the Binding of Satan so the Gentiles would not be deceived, and could be grafted into the Olive Tree representing the Covenant of Israel (Romans 11). And like it or not, the word translated here nations is the same word Gentiles you find in Romans and everywhere else. That's a fact, and so to simply declare "the word means nations, Period," is spurious at best. He was bound so that the Gentiles would not be deceived and could also come in with Israel...as spiritual Jews in Christ:
Revelation 7:3-4
- "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
- And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Joe,
"Early Rain", "Latter Rain" "Manifest Sons of God", no matter what you call your false religion by which you spiritualize beyond its Divinely-inspired meaning what God has foretold through the prophets, it's your own false religion that you are adhering to which is produced in the carnal imaginations of men.
The abomination of desolation that you refer to is this:
1 Corinthians 6
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
That's where it starts, and when the saints collectively follow false doctrine and engage in fornication with the harlot of the Revelation (the kings of the earth committing fornication with the harlot), it becomes the abomination of desolation in the holy place - the man of sin/son of perdition in the temple of God.
ALL born-again believers in Jesus who read it 1 Corinthians 6:17-20 believe it. Some will pay more attention to it than others, and many will not hearken, as according to 2 Thessalonians 2, there will be a general apostasy in the body of Christ involving this very abomination of desolation in the holy place/temple of God.
You have taken the plain and literal meaning of the Divinely-inspired scripture and twisted and corrupted it - making yourself guilty of being a false prophet/false teacher.
Get out of your "Early Rain/Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God" heresy now before you blaspheme God and grieve the Holy Spirit.
I.O.W, repent now before it's too late for you. Because your false religion has already led many to the exaltation of the creature to the status of the Most High. Man is NOT Christ. The only Man who is Christ is Jesus the Messiah.
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I agree. Another evidence of this is the fact that through the prophets' (all the prophets) repeated use of what scholars recognized in the book of Mark and called "Markhan sandwiches", Ezekiel wraps the battle of Gog-Magog with the opening and closing statements of the theme of the restoration of the house of Israel to God and to their land:
Ezekiel chapter 36 opens the theme of the restoration of the house of Israel to God and to their land, and Ezekiel 39:23-29 closes the same subject; and whereas Ezekiel 36:16-38 & Ezekiel 39:23-39 is one and the same prophecy and is referring to Israel, Ezekiel 38:1 to Ezekiel 39:22 is referring to the Gog/Magog nations.
(Ezekiel 39:23-29 is repeating what was said in Ezekiel 36:16-38, and closing the subject).
The "Markan Sandwich" employed in Ezekiel chapters 36-39 separates (a) the Gog-Magog war against the above people after they have been restored, from (b) the time of their restoration.
Also compare Hosea 1:11a and Ezekiel 37:15-28. The two passages are one and the same promise.
1. Ezekiel Chapters 36-39 promise the whole house of Israel that the tabernacle of God will be in their midst forevermore. Ezekiel Chapters 40-48 describe a new city and a new temple. Revelation Chapters 7 & 21 describes a new city, and the tabernacle of God dwelling among those who came out of great tribulation, and those who overcame.
2. In Revelation Chapters 11 and 21, the tabernacle of God and the holy city are measured. Ezekiel Chapters 40-48 give detailed dimensions of a new city and tabernacle.
3. The river of Life and trees growing on either side of its banks producing fruit which is for the healing of the nations is seen running out from the temple in both Ezekiel and in the Revelation (Ezekiel 47:1-12; Revelation 22:1-2).
4. Revelation Chapter 20's thousand years closes with the armies of Gog / Magog coming against "the camp of the saints". In Ezekiel Chapters 38 & 39, Gog & Magog's war is against the people who had already been gathered back into the land of their fathers (Ezekiel 36:16-18 and Ezekiel 39:23-29).
This Gog-Magog prophecy seems to be talking about a time after the house of Israel and the house of Judah had been joined again into one nation (see Ezekiel 37:15-28; Hosea 1:11; Galatians 3:28).
But that does not explain how the same metaphor being used in Revelation 19 regarding the judgment of the beast before all the above takes place seems to point to the Gog-Magog battle taking place before it takes place.
As @Randy Kluth says, it's confusing. And the only thing that makes it confusing, IMO, is the fact that the same metaphor regarding the destruction of Gog of Magog's armies in Ezekiel appears in Revelation 19.
All of which has already made me wonder if the ascending of the beast from the pit isn't the same as the Gog-Magog rebellion at the close of Revelation 20 (which Amils of course, do not have a problem with) - but the resurrection of the dead has to take place 1,000 years before this, and that occurs when the beast's armies are destroyed, so cannot occur at the close of a literal millennium that follows the return of Christ.
This thread is an Amillennialist's paradise.
But unlike Amillennialists who ignore all the facts that negate Amil, we do not ignore scripture which negates or seems to negate our point of view. And this thread proves it.
The seven years that follows the destruction of Gog's armies is another prophecy that I don't fully understand.
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Dear Zao is life,
You must be lumping my understanding in with others because there are things in your comments that I have never said nor do I believe.
You said:
The abomination of desolation that you refer to is this:
1 Corinthians 6
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
What this scripture above teaches is what I have been stating to you. The Abomination of Desolation happens 'within" a fallen away believer when the spirit of anti-Christ enters them. There will be no rebuilt physical temple in Jerusalem as most believe. Under the New Covenant, a believer who has the Holy Spirit (even just the Early Rain of the Spirit) is the temple of God. This is where the A of D occurs.
In Matthew chapter 24, Christ is teaching about when the Kingdom of Heaven (salvation) comes to one of His Elect. He is teaching about the spiritual pathway that He causes each of them to follow. As they travel that pathway, Satan will kill them (Mat 24:9). Satan kills the Elect when he plants his seed (spirit of anti-Christ) within them. This will cause the believer to follow Satan's crooked way (works) instead of Christ's straight way (faith alone). This is the sin that leads to death and is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs within an Elect believer.
When Christ returns with the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and they will then be able to "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves (Mat 24:15:16). When they see this sign of the times, they should flee to the mountains because Christ is about to judge them. When Christ judges them, He will remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (represents the worsened carnal nature of the person) and cast them into the Lake of Fire for destruction. This judgment event will complete the believer's conversion.
This scripture applies:
Mat 24:40 Then shall two (one believer) be in the field; the one shall be taken (spirit of anti-Christ), and the other left (Holy Spirit). 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken (Great Harlot), and the other left (new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit).
This scripture above is referring to one believer who has both the spirit of anti-Christ and the Holy Spirit within them. This is what Christ meant when He said you can't serve two masters. This concept is also taught by the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares. Also, notice that the believer is in the field or at the mill. Both places symbolize that the believer is "working" and has not yet entered into the rest of Christ.
Below, Christ teaches how the Abomination of Desolation happens to a new believer:
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.
Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.
This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.
Don't think that you or anyone else who has received the Early Rain of the Spirit (and has entered the church) can avoid becoming a Man of Sin. Christ said that these things must happen:
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
The "end" that Christ mentions above occurs when the Kingdom of Heaven comes to an Elect believer. This is when they are converted. After they are converted, the "ends of the ages" will have come upon them (as Paul says below):
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
The "ends of the ages" which Christ is teaching about in Matthew chapter 24 occurs when a believer is converted. The "signs of the times" are spiritual signs which happen within a person. They are not outward world events which happen at the literal end of the age.
Remember that Christ said that the Kingdom of Heaven comes without observation and that it is "within you":
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
And since Christ words are "spirit", they must be spiritually applied within a person and not out into the world as carnally minded believers apply them.
All the destruction and judgment shown in the verses that Davidpt quoted in this thread are teaching about the spiritual events which occur during a person's judgment. Those events will not happen out in the world where human eyes can see them.
You said:
You have taken the plain and literal meaning of the Divinely-inspired scripture and twisted and corrupted it - making yourself guilty of being a false prophet/false teacher.
The teachings of Christ are not "plain and literal".
Christ teaches with "spirit" words which have meanings not taught by man's wisdom. He then uses those spirit words in parables, analogies and types to teach His spiritual messages. Only the Elect who have been "weaned from the breasts" (those who have received the Latter Rain) will have the ability to understand His messages. But even then, it is a long and difficult process to find His hidden treasure:
Prov 2:1 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.
Joe
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After many days thou shalt be visited is maybe key here then? As far as I can tell, there are only two places in the OT where we are told something like this. Ezekiel 38 being one, Isaiah 24 being the other.
Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited : in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
It is then a matter of, when is Isaiah 24:21 meaning? What ever period of time it is involving, it is at the end of that that they are then shut up in prison, what ever that might look like.
A lot of interpreters, including some Amils, conclude that the period of time Isaiah 24:21 is involving is the period of time that Revelation 19:11-21 is involving, and that the period of time that Revelation 19:11-21 is involving are events pertaining to His 2nd coming in the end of this age.
Obviously then, per this scenario, it is then ludicrous to insist that those in Isaiah 24:21, meaning the kings of the earth upon the earth in this case, that they are sent to the LOF at the time if they are shut up in the prison instead, and then after many days they shall be visited. Where it appears to me that when they are visited, it is maybe meaning what is recorded in Ezekiel 38-39.
If there is a connection here between Isaiah 24:21-22, Revelation 19:11-21, and Ezekiel 38-39, what then explains them being shut up in the prison during the era of time Revelation 19:11-21 is involving? If we say the thousand years after the 2nd coming explains it, but then compare some of Ezekiel 38:19-22 with that of some of Zechariah 14, and with some of Revelation 16, who would take any of those things to be meaning a thousand years post the 2nd coming, in particular, what is recorded in Revelation 16?
One might argue, nothing pertaining to Ezekiel 38:19-22 is involving any of the vials of wrath in Revelation 16 though, it is involving after the thousand years after the 2nd coming, and that none of that is involving the vials of wrath since the vials of wrath are prior to the thousand years, not after.
But then one needs to explain how the following verse makes sense per that scenario if Christ has been bodily present on the earth for the past 1000 years, yet somehow many nations didn't even know that until after the thousand years.
Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.
As can be seen, these things involving this subject pertaining to the OP tend to raise more questions than they provide answers to.
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
IMO Satan's release from the abyss and deception of the nations in the four corners of the earth - Gog and Magog - fits with the things that occurred in Genesis 3, and IMO the words "the second death" is key to where we should place the Gog-Magog rebellion.
God's creation (Genesis 1:1-31) ⇾ Christ makes all things new (Revelation 21:5).
Perfectly good (Genesis 1:31) ⇾ Only righteousness dwells in it (Revelation 21:27).
Tree of life (Genesis 2:9, 16-17) ⇾ Tree of life (Revelation 21:6; Revelation 22:1-2, 14, 17).
Adam given dominion (Genesis 1:26-28) ⇾ Last Adam given dominion (Revelation 20:4).
Satan's deception (Genesis 3:1-7, 11-19) ⇾ Satan's deception (Revelation 20:7-10).
Adam's death. Expulsion from Eden (Genesis 3:22-24) ⇾ Second death. Lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 21:8).
There will be no second sacrifice for sins and no second resurrection from the second death.
Isaiah 24 is describing Revelation 16 & 19, IMO.
In fact I believe the following facts all fit together:
1. Jesus Himself does not speak again in the Revelation AFTER the messages to the seven churches, each of which ends with promises to those who overcome & keep His works to the end,
until He speaks in the midst of the visions regarding Armageddon / the 6th bowl of wrath, saying,
"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
2. All the visions John sees in-between Jesus' promises to those who overcome and His above words, revolve around the final 42 months - the reign of the beast (chapters 4-5 are parenthetic and are an introduction to the seals which when opened, open the scroll containing the trumpets and bowls).
Chapter 12 is parenthetic, and shifts the focus to Satan - the power behind the beast - and his activities in the world since the ascension of Christ. It culminates with the dragon giving the beast his seat, power and great authority in chapter 13.
3. Chapter 19 closes with the destruction of the beast.
It's also perhaps noteworthy that the names "Gog and Magog" are not mentioned in Revelation 19.
After saying, "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." Jesus only speaks again when He tells us He is now making all things new:
"And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful.
And He said to me, --- It is done ---. I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End."
The rest of the dead who were not killed when the beast was destroyed (which IMO is also being described in Isaiah 24) will be visited after many days (Isaiah 24:22), i.e after the thousand years.
In Ezekiel Gog-Magog only comes after a long period of peace. prosperity and blessing for God's people - and he comes in his jealousy.
IMO what we see happening today with all the surrounding nations enraged in their hot jealousy at what they see as Jews in the land that "should not even be occupied by them" and what they see as blessing and prosperity of the Jews in that land, is of the same spirit that will be behind Gog-Magog, both in Ezekiel 38-39 and in Revelation 20.
But the resurrection of the body and the regeneration of the creation are linked IMO, and the regeneration of the creation is a.k.a the new heavens and new earth, IMO. So Ezekiel 37 is well placed in the scriptures:
13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and have brought you up out of your graves.
14 And I shall put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. And you shall know that I the LORD have spoken and have done it, says the LORD.
Ezekiel chapters 36 & 37 and Ezekiel 39:23-29 are the wrapper that wraps around the Gog-Magog war against God's people. It's a "Markhan Sandwich" Ezekiel chapters 36-37 the bottom slice of bread and Ezekiel 39:23-29 the top slice. All the rest is in-between
(just like all John's visions are seen in-between Christ's promises to those who overcome & keep His works to the end, and the battle of Armageddon when He tells us He is coming as a thief).
Except that Ezekiel chapters 36-39 fit in the time following the battle of Armageddon, IMO i.e where Revelation 20 has it.
So it could be that because Revelation 19 is not calling that battle (of Armageddon) "Gog-Magog", we should not interpret the metaphoric language used of the slaughter of the beast's armies as "Gog-Magog" just because the language is the same as the language used for the slaughter of the Gog-Magog armies.
God's creation (Genesis 1:1-31) ⇾ Christ makes all things new (Revelation 21:5).
Perfectly good (Genesis 1:31) ⇾ Only righteousness dwells in it (Revelation 21:27).
Tree of life (Genesis 2:9, 16-17) ⇾ Tree of life (Revelation 21:6; Revelation 22:1-2, 14, 17).
Adam given dominion (Genesis 1:26-28) ⇾ Last Adam given dominion (Revelation 20:4).
Satan's deception (Genesis 3:1-7, 11-19) ⇾ Satan's deception (Revelation 20:7-10).
Adam's death. Expulsion from Eden (Genesis 3:22-24) ⇾ Second death. Lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 21:8).
There will be no second sacrifice for sins and no second resurrection from the second death.
Isaiah 24 is describing Revelation 16 & 19, IMO.
In fact I believe the following facts all fit together:
1. Jesus Himself does not speak again in the Revelation AFTER the messages to the seven churches, each of which ends with promises to those who overcome & keep His works to the end,
until He speaks in the midst of the visions regarding Armageddon / the 6th bowl of wrath, saying,
"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
2. All the visions John sees in-between Jesus' promises to those who overcome and His above words, revolve around the final 42 months - the reign of the beast (chapters 4-5 are parenthetic and are an introduction to the seals which when opened, open the scroll containing the trumpets and bowls).
Chapter 12 is parenthetic, and shifts the focus to Satan - the power behind the beast - and his activities in the world since the ascension of Christ. It culminates with the dragon giving the beast his seat, power and great authority in chapter 13.
3. Chapter 19 closes with the destruction of the beast.
It's also perhaps noteworthy that the names "Gog and Magog" are not mentioned in Revelation 19.
After saying, "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." Jesus only speaks again when He tells us He is now making all things new:
"And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful.
And He said to me, --- It is done ---. I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End."
The rest of the dead who were not killed when the beast was destroyed (which IMO is also being described in Isaiah 24) will be visited after many days (Isaiah 24:22), i.e after the thousand years.
In Ezekiel Gog-Magog only comes after a long period of peace. prosperity and blessing for God's people - and he comes in his jealousy.
IMO what we see happening today with all the surrounding nations enraged in their hot jealousy at what they see as Jews in the land that "should not even be occupied by them" and what they see as blessing and prosperity of the Jews in that land, is of the same spirit that will be behind Gog-Magog, both in Ezekiel 38-39 and in Revelation 20.
But the resurrection of the body and the regeneration of the creation are linked IMO, and the regeneration of the creation is a.k.a the new heavens and new earth, IMO. So Ezekiel 37 is well placed in the scriptures:
13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and have brought you up out of your graves.
14 And I shall put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. And you shall know that I the LORD have spoken and have done it, says the LORD.
Ezekiel chapters 36 & 37 and Ezekiel 39:23-29 are the wrapper that wraps around the Gog-Magog war against God's people. It's a "Markhan Sandwich" Ezekiel chapters 36-37 the bottom slice of bread and Ezekiel 39:23-29 the top slice. All the rest is in-between
(just like all John's visions are seen in-between Christ's promises to those who overcome & keep His works to the end, and the battle of Armageddon when He tells us He is coming as a thief).
Except that Ezekiel chapters 36-39 fit in the time following the battle of Armageddon, IMO i.e where Revelation 20 has it.
So it could be that because Revelation 19 is not calling that battle (of Armageddon) "Gog-Magog", we should not interpret the metaphoric language used of the slaughter of the beast's armies as "Gog-Magog" just because the language is the same as the language used for the slaughter of the Gog-Magog armies.
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Joe,
No I'm lumping you in with the one who teaches what Christ did not teach, nor did His apostles teach, thus exposing the fact that He has no spiritual understanding but only the understanding of what has been produced in his own carnal human imagination:
Christ does not keep His truth hidden and this is not what He taught.
14 The sower sows the word.
15 These are the ones on the path where the word is sown: Whenever they hear, immediately Satan comes and snatches the word that was sown in them.
16 These are the ones sown on rocky ground: As soon as they hear the word, they receive it with joy.
17 But they have no root in themselves and do not endure. Then, when trouble or persecution comes because of the word, immediately they fall away.
18 Others are the ones sown among thorns: They are those who hear the word,
19 but worldly cares, the seductiveness of wealth, and the desire for other things come in and choke the word, and it produces nothing.
20 But these are the ones sown on good soil: They hear the word and receive it and bear fruit, one thirty times as much, one sixty, and one a hundred."
21 He also said to them, "A lamp isn't brought to be put under a basket or under a bed, is it? Isn't it to be placed on a lampstand?
22 For nothing is hidden except to be revealed, and nothing concealed except to be brought to light.
23 If anyone has ears to hear, he had better listen!"
24 And he said to them, "Take care about what you hear. The measure you use will be the measure you receive, and more will be added to you.
25 For whoever has will be given more, but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."
It is to do with the condition of the human heart. It is NOT CHRIST "KEEPING HIS TRUTH HIDDEN SO THAT" (QUOTE):
You have twisted the teaching of Christ in your own carnal human mind and are teaching a false doctrine based on your own carnal thoughts and not on the Word of God, showing that you have no spiritual understanding.
This is also not the only way you twist the doctrine of the Lord and His chosen apostles. You continue to do this in many ways in the statements you make regarding scripture and what it teaches.
What lies you preach, friend. God does not cause the apostasy of any part of His elect, the church. He never has, and He never will. Your claim is tantamount to saying that God caused Adam's apostasy. What you assert is a blasphemous insult to God. God is not responsible for the apostasy of Israel or of the church. The human heart is - and the proof already lies in the fact that your own doctrine is apostate, and antichrist.
No believer was on a pathway "up to their conversion". Christ condescended to come and die for our sins and rose again from the dead. Salvation is all His work and the work of the Holy Spirit calling those to faith in Christ who are born of His Spirit when they receive Him.
You are the one who is spiritually blind and makes Christ out to be:
I suggest Joe, that you earnestly need to do what you are calling those who Christ knows because they belong to Him, to do - because your posts are FULL of false doctrines NOT taught by Jesus or by His apostles, or by any of the prophets of God (I have not even listed them all).
Your false doctrine, twisting of Christ and His apostles' doctrine, arrogance and pride betray one who is not born of God and does not understand. As a result you have been completely unable to make any positive contribution to this thread whatsoever. Go hurl abuse at the man in your mirror when you find the beam in his eye - and you truly need to look for that beam - because it's there, and very obvious to all believers in Christ except yourself.
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Dear Zao is life,
You are ignoring all the scriptures that I have posted. The few scriptures that you have posted in no way contradict what I have stated.
John says that apostate believers (those who have the spirit of anti-Christ) will deny that Christ ever came to them in the flesh:
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
John is not referring to the time when Christ walked the earth. John is referring to the time when Christ first comes a person and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain of the Spirit leaves the new believer carnally minded and spiritually blind. Because of such, the new believer can only see Christ "in the flesh". In other words, the new believer has only a carnal understanding of God's Word (Christ). They are not "weaned from the breasts" (Isa 28:9-12).
Because all apostate believers are in this same spiritually blind condition, they will deny that Christ ever came to them in the flesh - and most will deny that there is even such a thing as the Early Rain of the Spirit. They are just too spiritually blind to see it this "great mystery of Christ and His church" (Eph 5:32).
Below is a short teaching on the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit:
The Early and Latter Rain symbols are used in the farming analogy. In that analogy, Christ is the Farmer, the Rain is the Holy Spirit and a child of God is the crop that Christ is growing.
Consider these scriptures below:
Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the Latter and Early Rain unto the earth.
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of First Fruits of his creatures.
James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, UNTIL he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
The pathway to salvation begins for a person when Christ first comes to them and plants His seed within them. Mankind is the "field" where the seed is planted.
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
The seed is the Early Rain of the Spirit. But before the seed can grow into wheat (child of God) and be ready for harvest, Satan comes to the new believer and plants his seed within them, too:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept (time of spiritual blindness), his enemy (Satan) came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Satan's seed is the spirit of anti-Christ. When it is grown, it produces a tare. The tare is a symbol for the Man of Sin (worsened child of the devil).
Since the field (the Elect believer) now contains both good and bad seeds, the parable says that the farmer (Christ) will let them both grow to maturity.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
It is during this time (when both the good and bad seeds are within the believer) that a spiritual war is fought (Eph 6:12). This war is presented in many scriptures - some of them were presented by Davidpt in his original post.
During this spiritual war, Satan will temporarily win and begin governing the believer. This is when Satan kills the believer (causes them to lose their salvation) and when the believer becomes a Man of Sin (worse than the first, Mat 12:43-45).
The believer will remain as a Man of Sin until they physically die OR until Christ "comes again" to them.
Most apostate believers will die in their sins and be resurrected to judgment. They simply were not chosen by God to be a part of the early harvest of mankind. They were 'called" but not "chosen":
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
However, for those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world (the Elect, the "few"), their days as a Man of Sin will be "shortened" (Mat 24:22). For them, Christ will come to them a second time before they physically die. When Christ comes, He will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by the baptism of Fire (judgment). With these two baptisms (Mat 3:11), the spiritual war will resume and this time it will be won by the Christ and His Bride (Rev 19:11-21). This victory will result in the conversion of the Elect believer who will then be harvested into the Kingdom of Heaven as a First Fruit.
The converted Elect believer (child of God) is symbolized as "wheat" and as the "precious fruit of the earth".
With this understanding of the farming analogy which I have presented above, consider what these verses below teach:
1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.
Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
Because all Early Rain believers who have been "chosen" will become a Man of Sin, they will "perceive and see" that their "wickedness is great" when Christ heals their spiritual blindness with the Latter Rain.
Also, at that time, they will "see the Abomination of Desolation" (Mat 24:15-16) and the Man of Sin (themselves) will be revealed (2Thes 2:8).
After they see who they became under Satan's deceptions, judgment will immediately follow to remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (Mat 24:40-41). This judgment is represented by the burning of the tares. After the tares are burned, the wheat (the new child of God) is ready to be harvested into the Kingdom of Heaven. In other words, the believer is now saved and converted.
This moment of conversion is when the "ends of the ages" come upon them (1Cor 10:11).
Can you now see how the Early and Latter Rain teach the pathway to salvation?
The pathway to salvation as taught by the farming analogy does not stand alone in scripture - it is taught in many other places.
Joe
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
There is no point in quoting scriptures and then completely twisting their meaning the way you have done.
You have no spiritual understanding of the scriptures. For example, in Hosea God has been prophesying against the Northern Kingdom of Israel (Ephraim) as well as against the Southern Kingdom (Judah), and this continues in chapter 6, where we find the metaphor in verse 3:
1 Come and let us return to the LORD. For He has torn, and He will heal us; He has stricken, and He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will bring us to life; in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.
3 Then we shall know, if we follow on to know the LORD. His going out is prepared as the morning; and He shall come to us as the rain, as the latter and former rain to the earth.
Then comes the subject that the metaphor pertains to:
4 O Ephraim, what shall I do to you? O Judah, what shall I do to you? For your goodness is like a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goes away.
5 So I have cut them down by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of My mouth. And your judgments were as the light that goes out.
6 For I desired mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
7 But, like Adam, they have broken the covenant. They have acted like traitors against Me there.
It's referring to the Old Covenant, and to Old Testament Israel. In your false doctrine you have used the metaphor in verse 3 to spiritualize the (metaphorical) reference to the early rain and the latter rain, and taken a prophecy applying to Old Testament Israel and Judah, and superimposed it onto believers in Christ,
using it to turn the way God works in those individuals who believe in Jesus, and the way God works in the in the church/es, into your own version of a kind of "Pilgrim's Progress", and you have done this after twisting the scriptures all out of proportion
- but you do not even ATTEMPT to provide even one place in the gospels where Jesus taught your application of Hosea, or one place in the epistles where the Apostles taught it - because it's not there - and it's not there because your application is false doctrine.
A real EXAMPLE of the progress of the individual who is saved by Christ can be found in the REAL Pilgrim's Progress book - not in your twisted non-biblical adaptation of it.
ALL the scriptures you quote in support of your false doctrines DO NOT support them, because you are misapplying scripture to suit what in your puffed up human imagination you assert viz yourself and all other believers, where you are the one who is spiritual and the rest who believe in Christ are an abomination of desolation and lost.
It's pathetic self-exultation of the worst kind done by someone who accuses others who belong to Christ of "not being saved".
You have no spiritual understanding of the scriptures. For example, in Hosea God has been prophesying against the Northern Kingdom of Israel (Ephraim) as well as against the Southern Kingdom (Judah), and this continues in chapter 6, where we find the metaphor in verse 3:
1 Come and let us return to the LORD. For He has torn, and He will heal us; He has stricken, and He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will bring us to life; in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.
3 Then we shall know, if we follow on to know the LORD. His going out is prepared as the morning; and He shall come to us as the rain, as the latter and former rain to the earth.
Then comes the subject that the metaphor pertains to:
4 O Ephraim, what shall I do to you? O Judah, what shall I do to you? For your goodness is like a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goes away.
5 So I have cut them down by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of My mouth. And your judgments were as the light that goes out.
6 For I desired mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
7 But, like Adam, they have broken the covenant. They have acted like traitors against Me there.
It's referring to the Old Covenant, and to Old Testament Israel. In your false doctrine you have used the metaphor in verse 3 to spiritualize the (metaphorical) reference to the early rain and the latter rain, and taken a prophecy applying to Old Testament Israel and Judah, and superimposed it onto believers in Christ,
using it to turn the way God works in those individuals who believe in Jesus, and the way God works in the in the church/es, into your own version of a kind of "Pilgrim's Progress", and you have done this after twisting the scriptures all out of proportion
- but you do not even ATTEMPT to provide even one place in the gospels where Jesus taught your application of Hosea, or one place in the epistles where the Apostles taught it - because it's not there - and it's not there because your application is false doctrine.
A real EXAMPLE of the progress of the individual who is saved by Christ can be found in the REAL Pilgrim's Progress book - not in your twisted non-biblical adaptation of it.
ALL the scriptures you quote in support of your false doctrines DO NOT support them, because you are misapplying scripture to suit what in your puffed up human imagination you assert viz yourself and all other believers, where you are the one who is spiritual and the rest who believe in Christ are an abomination of desolation and lost.
It's pathetic self-exultation of the worst kind done by someone who accuses others who belong to Christ of "not being saved".
Dear Zao is life,
The physical Nation of Israel will be saved in the same manner as all mankind will be saved. They must be converted into a spiritual child of God. The flesh counts for nothing.
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
You quoted:
1 Come and let us return to the LORD. For He has torn, and He will heal us; He has stricken, and He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will bring us to life; in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.
3 Then we shall know, if we follow on to know the LORD. His going out is prepared as the morning; and He shall come to us as the rain, as the latter and former rain to the earth.
Then comes the subject that the metaphor pertains to:
4 O Ephraim, what shall I do to you? O Judah, what shall I do to you? For your goodness is like a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goes away.
5 So I have cut them down by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of My mouth. And your judgments were as the light that goes out.
6 For I desired mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
7 But, like Adam, they have broken the covenant. They have acted like traitors against Me there.
Yes, Hosea 6:1-7 applies to the physical Nation of Israel.
The number two represents the witness of God. These are the Elect.
The number three represents a spiritual process.
Hosea 6:1-3 is teaching about the salvation of the Nation of Israel.
When the scripture says that "after two days He will bring us to life", it is referring to the timing of their salvation. The two days does not mean literal time. That is a carnal understanding of those spirit words. Being saved after two days means that the physical Nation of Israel will be saved after the full harvest of the Elect (the number 2) is complete in this age. That only leaves the final age for the Nation of Israel to be saved.
To accomplish the physical Nation of Israel's conversion (the third day, a spiritual process), Christ will give them the Early & Latter Rains of the Spirit just as He gave earlier to the Elect in this age.
Hosea 6:4-7 then tells the Nation of Israel why they were not saved by the Old Covenant of Law.
What I have presented above is what Hosea 6:1-7 is actually teaching.
In the final age, this scripture below will apply to all the "lost" who are being judged by the Law:
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
When the "lost" are judged in the final age, Christ will NOT omit justice, mercy and faith during their time of judgment.
Before the "lost" perish (the true penalty of sin), Christ will have mercy upon them. His mercy comes to them in the form of the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, they will have the necessary faith to make Christ's pathway straight for Him to "come again" and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, the "lost" will be "born again". The new child of God will then be gathered up to heaven. Justice will be served by the destruction of the child of the devil. This spiritual process is called conversion.
Joel 2:1-27 teaches the salvation of the physical Nation of Israel. Christ's army who reign with Him are the Elect. Then in verse 18, it says that the Lord will pity His people. Then in verse 23, it shows the Nation of Israel receiving the Early and Latter Rains.
Paul says this about the timing of the physical Nation of Israel's salvation:
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
What Paul said above is supportive of what Hosea 6:1-3 says.
Also, notice that Paul says the Nation of Israel's salvation will come only after the full salvation of the Gentiles.
After the Nation of Israel is saved in the final age, these scriptures will be testified to be true:
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.
Salvation is truly a free gift from God. It is for this reason that the Father sent Christ into the world:
1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
You said:
- but you do not even ATTEMPT to provide even one place in the gospels where Jesus taught your application of Hosea, or one place in the epistles where the Apostles taught it - because it's not there - and it's not there because your application is false doctrine.
I presented you many scriptures from the Gospels which teach the truth of the Early and Latter Rains. You just can "see" them because Christ teaches in "another language" that you do not understand. Plus, Christ teaches His truth "here a little and there a little". He teaches in this way so that believers who are spiritually blind will "fall backward, be broken, and snared and taken":
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Not only does the farming analogy use the Early and Latter Rains, that concept is also used by the marriage analogy taught by the Parable of the Ten Virgins. Can you see the Early and Latter Rains in that parable?
The Early and Latter Rains is also taught by the story of the woman taken in adultery (John 8:3-10) and by the healing of the blind man in Mark 8:15-25. Can you see the Early and Latter Rains in those teachings?
Also, Paul's conversion experience in Acts 9 is a "type" which teaches the pathway to salvation (1Tim 1:16). It shows when Paul received the Early and Latter Rains.
Joe
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I don't fully understand it, either. The main thing I'm trying to figure out for now though, where does it logically fit? Does it fit before the 2nd coming, or after the 2nd coming?
What happens if we factor in the following?
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
If all men of war have been basically wiped out according to Ezekiel 39:20--Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war---followed by burning weapons for 7 years, whatever that might look like, couldn't that then result in what Isaiah 2:4 records--and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more?
Of course though, some interpreters, mainly Amil, apply Isaiah 2:4 to the here and now, and apply it in a spiritual sense rather than in a literal sense. But if we factor in Ezekiel 39:20, and the fact that hasn't even been fulfilled yet unless someone can undeniably prove otherwise, Isaiah 2:4 appears to maybe make better sense post that of Ezekiel 39:20 rather than prior to it, the fact Isaiah 2:4 involves nations no longer warring with nations. Not to mention, Isaiah 2:4 appears to contradict what Jesus said per the verses below if Isaiah 2:4 is applicable when the following verses are applicable.
Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars : see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom : and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Versus what Isaiah 2:4 records.
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more
And since this thread is in regards to how many great suppers of God are there, maybe a key to determining this, is what is recorded in Ezekiel 39:20--Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war
And if we then consider Revelation 19 below, do any of those fit all men of war, is what we should maybe ask ourselves? If no? Why not? If yes, how then does it make sense, that if He already wiped out all men of war 7 years earlier, keeping in mind that burning weapons for 7 years has to follow this, why then does He need to wipe out all men of war yet again, not a long time down the road though, but maybe 7 years later?
Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Once again, do these recorded here fit all men of war?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Here's another thought: Isn't the prophecy against the nations talking of the nations generically?
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. (Joel 3:10).
The above is the exact opposite of this:
They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Isaiah 2:4).
Joel 3
9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.
Isaiah 2
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people:
This, IMO, follows the judgment mentioned above:
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
IMO it's all talking about the same thing Revelation 19 is talking about, and it seems to me that prophetic scripture / the prophets used certain phrases that conveyed the idea being expressed and should not necessarily be taken 100% literally in every respect - such as the imagery of birds being gathered together to eat the flesh of kings, etc. It's just prophetic language being used to express the idea of the kind of slaughter the enemies of Christ are going to experience, and the peace that will follow.
So maybe the prophetic language and the type of phrases and imagery the prophets used can be used to describe the judgment of Gog and his armies after the peace that follows the judgment of the nations that had gathered together for war.
Revelation 20 tells us how Gog and his armies will meet their end. Can the slaughter - birds being filled with the flesh of kings and ordinary alike - be accomplished through the fire that will come down from God out of heaven?
The camp of the saints and the beloved city being surrounded and attacked does not contradict what Ezekiel says about Gog coming against people who had been brought back from the sword - people who had once been slain by the sword and scattered among the heathen nations, out of which and from which they had been gathered and brought back into the land.
More and more my thinking is moving toward the language not being meant to be understood 100% literally, but understood as phrases and expressions and metaphor being used to convey the idea that God is going to gather all nations to bring them to war against God and His people. Exactly the same idea is expressed in the Revelation. Then there will be peace afterwards for a long time, until Gog and his armies come against the people who had once fallen by the sword at the hand of the nations to which they were scattered, but have been brought back from the sword and from exile, restored to God, and blessed.
If the above is the case it does mean there is another hint that not every person or every nation, or every person IN every nation will suffer the fate of the nations when He comes in judgment of the nations in the day they are rebuked - because unless it's the people of God who are "beating the swords of those who came against them into plowshares", there has to be someone else who will be doing this after the judgment.
IMO Gog / Magog does not come before the close of the millennium, once Satan has been released again and permitted one last time to go out deceiving, and gathering the nations together for war. There's a lot of overlap between the judgment of ancient Babylon and the release of the elect, the judgment of the nations (the beast) at the time of Christ's return, and the judgment of Gog-Magog at the close of the millennium.
Hence there is a lot of overlap in the prophetic language being used to describe the nations being gathered for war and what follows.
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