How many great suppers of God are there? Just one or more than one?

[Davidpt]

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field(Ezekiel 39:17)--------(Revelation 19:17)and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven

Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war(Ezekiel 39:17-20)----------(Revelation 19:17-18)Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Ezekiel 39 involves kings, mighty men, and all men of war, being sacrificed to the feathered fowls, as does Revelation 19. How then can anyone possibly insist that these are not even meaning the same events, that there are two, rather than just one, great supper of God, and that the one recorded in Ezekiel 39 already happened long ago in the past, the one in Revelation 19, it is still future and involves the 2nd coming of Christ in the end of this age?

And not only that, according to some interpreters, there are two last days eras rather than just one. The last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled. The last days involving Revelation 19 are still being fulfilled and end once what is recorded in Revelation 19 is fulfilled. Per this scenario, since inquiring minds want to know, when did the last day of the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 take place? Obviously, you can't have last days but no last day of the last days, otherwise they are not actually last days after all if they don't even have a last day to put an end to them. I highlighted this for a reason, in order to remind those who might argue that the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled, which then means there has to be a last day of these lasts days, otherwise they are not last days after all. IOW, who has ever heard of last days that don't even have a last day eventually?

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.


This verse undeniably informs us that these events involve the last days. 'Latter' in this verse is the Hebrew word 'achariyth. The same Hebrew word used in Isaiah 2:2 as well. Just sayin. Make of it what you will then.

Totally preposterous then, IMO, that the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled sometime long ago in the past. Totally preposterous, IMO, that the great supper of God recorded in Ezekiel 39 and the one recorded in Revelation 19, that these aren't one and the same event.

Which then brings up the following, meaning the aftermath of this great supper of God. And if it is involving the 2nd coming in the end of this age, that according to Revelation 19, all of the following has to be meaning post the 2nd coming since none of the following, regardless what it might look like when being fulfilled, can remotely take place before this great supper of God takes place first.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

Ezekiel 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.


Now what? Now one has to explain this 7 years and this 7 months, post that of the 2nd coming. Clearly, Amil has no explanation for it. But Premil does. Based on this then, which view is likely the correct position? The view that can explain this 7 years and this 7 months post that of the 2nd coming? Or the view that can't explain them post that of the 2nd coming?

There are several ways this can be debunked, assuming it can be. One first has to prove that there are two great suppers of God rather than one, and that the one involving Ezekiel 39 was fulfilled ages ago, therefore, these 7 years and 7 months in question are not even relevant in regards to what is recorded in Revelation 19 since they don't involve that account.

Or another way to debunk it, assuming it can be debunked. If these accounts are the same events though, thus only one supper of God rather than 2, Revelation 19 is not involving the 2nd coming after all, therefore, this 7 years and 7 months in question, they precede the 2nd coming rather than follow it.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field(Ezekiel 39:17)--------(Revelation 19:17)and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven

Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war(Ezekiel 39:17-20)----------(Revelation 19:17-18)Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Ezekiel 39 involves kings, mighty men, and all men of war, being sacrificed to the feathered fowls, as does Revelation 19. How then can anyone possibly insist that these are not even meaning the same events, that there are two, rather than just one, great supper of God, and that the one recorded in Ezekiel 39 already happened long ago in the past, the one in Revelation 19, it is still future and involves the 2nd coming of Christ in the end of this age?

And not only that, according to some interpreters, there are two last day eras rather than just one. The last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled. The last days involving Revelation 19 are still being fulfilled and end once what is recorded in Revelation 19 is fulfilled. Per this scenario, since inquiring minds want to know, when did the last day of the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 take place? Obviously, you can't have last days but no last day of the last days, otherwise they are not actually last days after all if they don't even have a last day to put an end to them. I highlighted this for a reason, in order to remind those who might argue that the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled, which then means there has to be a last day of these lasts days, otherwise they are not last days after all. IOW, who has ever heard of last days that don't even have a last day eventually?

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.


This verse undeniably informs us that these events involve the last days. 'Latter' in this verse is the Hebrew word 'achariyth. The same Hebrew word used in Isaiah 2:2 as well. Just sayin. Make of it what you will then.

Totally preposterous then, IMO, that the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled sometime long ago in the past. Totally preposterous, IMO, that the great supper of God recorded in Ezekiel 39 and the one recorded in Revelation 19, that these aren't one and the same event.

Which then brings up the following, meaning the aftermath of this great supper of God. And if it is involving the 2nd coming in the end of this age, that according to Revelation 19, all of the following has to be meaning post the 2nd coming since none of the following, regardless what it might look like when being fulfilled, can remotely take place before this great supper of God takes place first.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

Ezekiel 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.


Now what? Now one has to explain this 7 years and this 7 months, post that of the 2nd coming. Clearly, Amil has no explanation for it. But Premil does. Based on this then, which view is likely the correct position? The view that can explain this 7 years and this 7 months post that of the 2nd coming? Or the view that can't explain them post that of the 2nd coming?

There are several ways this can be debunked, assuming it can be. One first has to prove that there are two great suppers of God rather than one, and that the one involving Ezekiel 39 was fulfilled ages ago, therefore, these 7 years and 7 months in question are not even relevant in regards to what is recorded in Revelation 19 since they don't involve that account.

Or another way to debunk it, assuming it can be debunked. If these accounts are the same events though, thus only one supper of God rather than 2, Revelation 19 is not involving the 2nd coming after all, therefore, this 7 years and 7 months in question, they precede the 2nd coming rather than follow it.

Dear Davidpt,
The Supper of the Great God is Christ's judgment which occurs during the Day of the Lord. This judgment is spiritual and it occurs within every person when they are being converted from a child of the devil into a child of God. In other words, the Supper of the Great God is a reoccurring event.

The destruction that is shown in the verses you quoted is upon a person's carnality and false beliefs which have been ruling them.

Revelation chapter 19 presents the conversion of the Elect in this age. Since they are "born again" prior to Christ's judgment coming upon them, they are shown as the Bride of Christ who reigns with Christ over their own judgment. In this way, the Elect do not experience wrath during their time of judgment.

The statement "seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land" occurs during the final age. It is stating that the destruction of the person's carnality is perfect (7 months). The "land" is the person who has been cleansed by Christ's judgment. When Christ's judgment is complete, the individual's carnal nature and carnal mind will be destroyed. The "house of Israel" are the Elect (children of God) who reign with Christ during this time of judgment during the final age.

Joe

 

[Davidpt]

Dear Davidpt,
The Supper of the Great God is Christ's judgment which occurs during the Day of the Lord. This judgment is spiritual and it occurs within every person when they are being converted from a child of the devil into a child of God. In other words, the Supper of the Great God is a reoccurring event.

The destruction that is shown in the verses you quoted is upon a person's carnality and false beliefs which have been ruling them.

Revelation chapter 19 presents the conversion of the Elect in this age. Since they are "born again" prior to Christ's judgment coming upon them, they are shown as the Bride of Christ who reigns with Christ over their own judgment. In this way, the Elect do not experience wrath during their time of judgment.

The statement "seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land" occurs during the final age. It is stating that the destruction of the person's carnality is perfect (7 months). The "land" is the person who has been cleansed by Christ's judgment. When Christ's judgment is complete, the individual's carnal nature and carnal mind will be destroyed. The "house of Israel" are the Elect (children of God) who reign with Christ during this time of judgment during the final age.

Joe

Joe, what you are basically doing here is making the Bible mean whatever you want it to mean rather than what it actually means. Anyone can do what you are doing, which means someone else doing what you are doing might think it means something else altogether, and not what you take it to mean instead. Then someone else comes along and does what you 2 are doing but insists it means something else altogether. And the next thing you know, now we have a multiple choice question to resolve among us. Does it mean what Joe takes it to mean? Or does it mean what one of these other ones take it to mean? So on and so on.

 

[Davidpt]

Per Premil thinking, or at least per my way, assuming all Premils might not see it this way, one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Therefore, if from the first advent to the 2nd advent involves 2000 years, it's basically involving 2 days then. And if there is another thousand years that follow the end of this age, that equals a 3rd day.

If the last days began with the first advent and continue until the 2nd advent, the last day of the last days can not be the last day of this age if there is still 1 more day that follows the last day of this age, meaning the millennium. Therefore, the last day of the last days has to be meaning after the millennium that follows the 2nd coming. IOW, the last days involve the first advent through the 2nd advent, plus the millennium that follows. Just because there is a last day of this age, that doesn't prove it is the last day of the last days, though.

The last day of the last days cannot possibly occur until the millennium has been fulfilled first. Not to mention, including satan's little season as well, plus the great white throne judgment.

Per Amil thinking, it would basically be the same logic, that the last day of the last days cannot precede the millennium, nor satan's little season, nor the GWTJ. But let's not lose focus on the OP, though. The OP is in regards to Ezekiel 39:17-20 vs. Revelation 19:17-18. And that both accounts are involving the last days, and that post this great supper of God, thus the aftermath, there is then Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12 to contend with.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field(Ezekiel 39:17)--------(Revelation 19:17)and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven

Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war(Ezekiel 39:17-20)----------(Revelation 19:17-18)Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Ezekiel 39 involves kings, mighty men, and all men of war, being sacrificed to the feathered fowls, as does Revelation 19. How then can anyone possibly insist that these are not even meaning the same events, that there are two, rather than just one, great supper of God, and that the one recorded in Ezekiel 39 already happened long ago in the past, the one in Revelation 19, it is still future and involves the 2nd coming of Christ in the end of this age?

And not only that, according to some interpreters, there are two last day eras rather than just one. The last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled. The last days involving Revelation 19 are still being fulfilled and end once what is recorded in Revelation 19 is fulfilled. Per this scenario, since inquiring minds want to know, when did the last day of the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 take place? Obviously, you can't have last days but no last day of the last days, otherwise they are not actually last days after all if they don't even have a last day to put an end to them. I highlighted this for a reason, in order to remind those who might argue that the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled, which then means there has to be a last day of these lasts days, otherwise they are not last days after all. IOW, who has ever heard of last days that don't even have a last day eventually?

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.


This verse undeniably informs us that these events involve the last days. 'Latter' in this verse is the Hebrew word 'achariyth. The same Hebrew word used in Isaiah 2:2 as well. Just sayin. Make of it what you will then.

Totally preposterous then, IMO, that the last days involving Ezekiel 38-39 have already been fulfilled sometime long ago in the past. Totally preposterous, IMO, that the great supper of God recorded in Ezekiel 39 and the one recorded in Revelation 19, that these aren't one and the same event.

Which then brings up the following, meaning the aftermath of this great supper of God. And if it is involving the 2nd coming in the end of this age, that according to Revelation 19, all of the following has to be meaning post the 2nd coming since none of the following, regardless what it might look like when being fulfilled, can remotely take place before this great supper of God takes place first.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

Ezekiel 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.


Now what? Now one has to explain this 7 years and this 7 months, post that of the 2nd coming. Clearly, Amil has no explanation for it. But Premil does. Based on this then, which view is likely the correct position? The view that can explain this 7 years and this 7 months post that of the 2nd coming? Or the view that can't explain them post that of the 2nd coming?

There are several ways this can be debunked, assuming it can be. One first has to prove that there are two great suppers of God rather than one, and that the one involving Ezekiel 39 was fulfilled ages ago, therefore, these 7 years and 7 months in question are not even relevant in regards to what is recorded in Revelation 19 since they don't involve that account.

Or another way to debunk it, assuming it can be debunked. If these accounts are the same events though, thus only one supper of God rather than 2, Revelation 19 is not involving the 2nd coming after all, therefore, this 7 years and 7 months in question, they precede the 2nd coming rather than follow it.

These are one of those "most difficult questions in eschatology" for me! I really don't know. I agree that it isn't likely that the Gog and Magog prophecy happened long ago in the past. There is a theme in the Prophets in which Israel is finally saved for all time, "never more" to suffer exile. This prophecy sounds very much like that, and so appears to be connected to the end of the present age.

There is yet another prophecy of Gog and Magog at the end of the Millennium. This makes things confusing because it separates the 2nd Coming from this event by a 1000 years. It's just the same character, "Gog," who is being addressed. It's possible that it's simply the same character rising up at the end of the Millennium to repeat what was done at the end of this present age?

As to the "Great Supper," it may be questioned whether this is just the use of language involving a previous event to say, "This is the same sort of thing--military troops being wiped out and eaten by birds." I just can't say.

It seems clear to me that the Great Supper in the book of Revelation has to do with Armageddon. And I lean towards believing the prophecy of Gog is the same. It has to do with the 2nd Coming.

And I feel that the 2nd prophecy of Gog at the end of the Millennium is simply a repeat of the same kind of event, taking place again a thousand years later, with the same cast of characters. In other words, there are 2 prophecies of Gog, and not just one, separated by a thousand years.

Really difficult to say for certain. I'll have more to say about it later, because events are presently shaping up that render the prophecy of Gog of possibly current significance.

 

[Zao is life]

The destruction that is shown in the verses you quoted is upon a person's carnality and false beliefs which have been ruling them.

That would mean that a lot of Christians are continually being destroyed because for years and decades after they have been born again many Christians still hold false beliefs. Amillennialism being one such collection of false beliefs still held by many Christians.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe, what you are basically doing here is making the Bible mean whatever you want it to mean rather than what it actually means. Anyone can do what you are doing, which means someone else doing what you are doing might think it means something else altogether, and not what you take it mean instead. Then someone else comes along and does what you 2 are doing but insists it means something else together. And the next thing you know, now we have a multiple choice question to resolve among us. Does it mean what Joe takes it to mean? Or does it mean what one of these other ones take it to mean? So on and so on.

Dear Davidpt,
Christ's words are "spirit" (John 6:63). To understand spirit words, it takes spiritual understanding and this is only given to a believer upon their conversion. After a believer has been given "eyes that can see", Christ (the Word of God) will be revealed to them.

Your understanding of scripture is carnal and not spiritual. You are giving meanings to the spirit words of Christ as this world defines them.

Paul said that he taught in a mystery using the same spirit words as Christ did. Paul said that those spirit words have meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Until a believer is given eyes that can see (weaned from the breasts), the truth that is taught in scripture will remain a mystery to them.

Why does Christ keep His truth hidden? So that the unconverted church (the many) will become apostate ("fall backward, and be broken, and snared and taken") shortly after they are called out from the world.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

This is why Paul said that churches would become apostate after his death. The apostasy of the church happened because God caused it to happen to satisfy His plan and purpose for saving mankind.

When God's Word is properly understood, a converted believer will see that nearly all scripture teaches about the pathway to salvation which leads a person up to their conversion. The events experienced on that pathway are spiritual events. However, spiritually blind believers understand those scriptures in a carnal way. As a result, they make Christ out to be a blood thirty monster who destroys most of mankind. However, that belief is completely wrong. Christ is loving & merciful and will do all that is necessary to save us all. He saves us by destroying the old vessel (child of the devil) and making it into a new vessel (children of God). He does it by the spiritual process of conversion.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

By the end of the final age, this scripture will be proven true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Have you ever prayed for Christ to reveal Himself to you?

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

That would mean that a lot of Christians are continually being destroyed because for years and decades after they have been born again many Christians still hold false beliefs. Amillennialism being one such collection of false beliefs still held by many Christians.

Zao is life,
All new believers, shortly after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit, will fall away and come under the influence of Satan vis the spirit of anti-Christ (Mat 12:43-45). When this happens, they will lose their salvation. For the Elect, Christ will "come again" and restore them with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed (Mark 8:15-25). Only then will Christ reveal Himself to the person. When He does, judgment will fall on the child of the devil, along with all his false beliefs. That is what is being described in the verses Davidpt quoted in his original post. This judgment event is called the Supper of the Great God. From that judgment, the child of the devil is destroyed, leaving only the new creation (a child of God). This spiritual process is called conversion and is why mankind needs both the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of Fire:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The spirit word "fire" represents Christ's judgment. That judgment will utterly & perfectly destroy the child of the devil. That is what is being taught in the verses Davidpt quoted.

Joe

 

[Wrangler]

(Ezekiel 39:17)--------(Revelation 19:17)

I think these verses are referring to the same feast.

Having sad that; the Last Supper was a pretty amazing feast, as well, I am sure, of the feast Isaac had when God stilled the hand of his father Abraham and provided a non-human sacrifice.

 

[Davidpt]

And I feel that the 2nd prophecy of Gog at the end of the Millennium is simply a repeat of the same kind of event, taking place again a thousand years later, with the same cast of characters. In other words, there are 2 prophecies of Gog, and not just one, separated by a thousand years.

Let's assume you might be correct here. We then have to factor in the following, then ask ourselves, how does verse 23 below make sense if that is meaning after the thousand years post the 2nd coming, that, though Christ has been physically present on the earth for 1000 years, He is not known in the eyes of many nations, thus they they don't even know that He is the LORD until after the thousand years end?

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


Not to mention, look at some of the following that precedes verse 23.

Ezekiel 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel ;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground
21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone .


Compare that with this, for instance.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great .
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great

No would one apply what is recorded in Revelation 16:17-21 to that of an era of time involving the end of the thousand years post the 2nd coming, right? This great earthquake mentioned in Revelation 16:18, is there any reason it can't explain what I have underlined in Ezekiel 38, verse 19 and 20? Ezekiel 38:19 records that there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel. And then in Revelation 16:19 because of this great earthquake per verse 18, it records that the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.

Then there is this recorded in Ezekiel 39.

Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.


Compare that with what is recorded per the 7th vial that I just submitted that appears to be connected with what I just submitted per Ezekiel 38.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Both accounts having this in common---and it is done(Ezekiel 39:8)---It is done(Revelation 16:17). Should we just chalk this up as a coincidence? Or is someone trying to tell us something here, that what is recorded in Ezekiel 38 and 39, and what is recorded in Revelation 16, these are involving the same events?

 

[Zao is life]

IOW, the last days involve the first advent through the 2nd advent, plus the millennium that follows. Just because there is a last day of this age, that doesn't prove it is the last day of the last days, though.

Wow! So glad you posted this, David. I've been confused about Ezekiel's reference to the judgment of Gog of Magog and the metaphor it uses and how almost word-for-word the same it is as the wording in Revelation 19 regarding Christ's judgment of the beast, whereas the judgment of the Gog-Magog armies is only taking place at the close of the millennium in the Revelation.

I'm reluctant to have even said that though, because it would just reinforce the Amil fallacy in their minds because Amils will immediately turn around and say that it's "infallible proof" that the thousand years is symbolic of the last days since the time of Christ - and in the process they then (and have) spiritualized everything else contained in the prophetic books as well as in Revelation 20 beyond all recognition, and beyond the intended meaning of what is written.

I disagree though that the millennium is still part of the current age (as you know).

In Revelation 11, the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of Christ at the 7th trumpet - when the dead are raised.

The Lord God omnipotent reigns in Rev.19:6.

Paul links the regeneration of the creation to the resurrection of the saints in Romans 8:

21 That the creation itself shall also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So the Lord God omnipotent reigns in Rev.19:6, and the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has prepared herself. In Rev.21:2 New Jerusalem is prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Those arrayed in white robes who came out of great tribulation in Rev.7:13-17 who "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" are promised that they will be before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple, and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto fountains of living waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

It's the same promises made to those who overcame - the bride of Christ - in Rev.21:3-4, and the same promises were already made to those who will overcome by Christ to his churches:

1. "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give him to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.".

2. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death. (Rev.2:11)

etc

So I believe (as you know) that the NHNE and the millennium commence at the same time - but if what I say is true, then the following can't also be true:​

The last day of the last days cannot possibly occur until the millennium has been fulfilled first. Not to mention, including satan's little season as well, plus the great white throne judgment.

I think you have also seen where my dilemma lies:

There is also a problem with what I have said above, because the metaphor of the destruction of the armies of Gog of Magog appearing in both Ezekiel 39:17-22 and Rev.19:17-18 cannot be referring both to the judgment of the beast in Revelation 19:17-21 AND to the close of the millennium in both Ezekiel 39:17-22 and Revelation 20:7-10.

That metaphor actually pushes the judgment of the beast to the close of the millennium, if the metaphor used for the judgment of Gog is meant only for the judgment of Gog of Magog and his armies.

So I'm glad that you are exploring this.

And because it's now so late in my part of the world my brain doesn't even know anymore what it's confused about. I'll come back to this tomorrow to see what else you have said in this thread about it - because it is, for me, a VERY important topic and 100% pertinent to our interpretation of Revelation chapters 19 through 22.​

Per Amil thinking, it would basically be the same logic, that the last day of the last days cannot precede the millennium, nor satan's little season, nor the GWTJ.

But let's not lose focus on the OP, though. The OP is in regards to Ezekiel 39:17-20 vs. Revelation 19:17-18. And that both accounts are involving the last days, and that post this great supper of God, thus the aftermath, there is then Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12 to contend with.

.. and though others may know or think they know how and where it all fits, I do not. When the scriptures prove I have no answer, then I know it, such as now.

 

[Zao is life]

Zao is life,
All new believers, shortly after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit, will fall away and come under the influence of Satan vis the spirit of anti-Christ (Mat 12:43-45). When this happens, they will lose their salvation. For the Elect, Christ will "come again" and restore them with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed (Mark 8:15-25). Only then will Christ reveal Himself to the person. When He does, judgment will fall on the child of the devil, along with all his false beliefs. That is what is being described in the verses Davidpt quoted in his original post. This judgment event is called the Supper of the Great God. From that judgment, the child of the devil is destroyed, leaving only the new creation (a child of God). This spiritual process is called conversion and is why mankind needs both the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of Fire:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The spirit word "fire" represents Christ's judgment. That judgment will utterly & perfectly destroy the child of the devil. That is what is being taught in the verses Davidpt quoted.

Joe

Joe,

Your religion is not biblical. It's mixed with the human imagination of men.

I follow only Christ and the doctrine once for all handed down and contained in scripture - not your "manifest sons of God" or whatever nonsense it is that you are pushing here, which is neither Christian, nor Biblical.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe,

Your religion is not biblical. It's mixed with the human imagination of men.

I follow only Christ and the doctrine once for all handed down and contained in scripture - not your "manifest sons of God" or whatever nonsense it is that you are pushing here, which is neither Christian, nor Biblical.

Dear Zao is life,
I don't teach "religion". Religion is what orthodox Christianity teaches and has been "handing down" since it was established.

Religion is how carnal man approaches God. Scripture calls it the crooked way of "works".

Religion is also what Satan's "another gospel" teaches. When a believer mixes works with faith, they are committing the "sin that leads to death". This is how Satan kills the saints and is what Paul means when a believer "falls away".

Christ is mankind's Savior, and as such, He does 100% of the work of saving us. Mankind contributes nothing because they have nothing they can contribute. As a result, Paul says the Elect have nothing to boast about concerning their salvation. It truly was a gift from God.

When Christ begins His work within a person, He will first come to them (without their asking or permission to come) and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Shortly after they receive the Early Rain, Satan will come to them, too, and plant his seed of the spirit of anti-Christ within them (parable of the wheat and the tares). At this point, a spiritual battle ensues. Since the Early Rain left the new believer spiritually blind and carnal, Satan has no problem deceiving the new believer. They will then readily accept his "another gospel" and fall from grace. With the spirit of anti-Christ now controlling the believer, the believer will become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43:45) and become a "man of sin". The "man of sin" is described as a Seven Headed Beast in Revelation chapter 13. The second beast who controls the first beast represents the spirit of anti-Christ.

With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the believer, the Abomination of Desolation occurs within them. For the Elect believers, Christ will come a second time and pour out the Latter Rain upon them. With the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed. They will then "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within themselves. This is also when the man of sin is revealed by the brightness of Christ's appearance to the believer who can now "see". When this occurred, Christ said to flee to the mountains as Lot did because judgment is about to fall (Mat 24:15-16).

If a believer has not seen the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves, they are not converted. They remain spiritually blind and under Satan's influence.

What I have stated above is what God's Word teaches. It is taught in a "mystery" to keep this world and carnally minded believers from understanding this portion of the pathway to salvation.

Joe

 

[Davidpt]

Wow! So glad you posted this, David. I've been confused about Ezekiel's reference to the judgment of Gog of Magog and the metaphor it uses and how almost word-for-word the same it is as the wording in Revelation 19 regarding Christ's judgment of the beast, whereas the judgment of the Gog-Magog armies is only taking place at the close of the millennium in the Revelation.

I'm reluctant to have even said that though, because it would just reinforce the Amil fallacy in their minds because Amils will immediately turn around and say that it's "infallible proof" that the thousand years is symbolic of the last days since the time of Christ - and in the process they then (and have) spiritualized everything else contained in the prophetic books as well as in Revelation 20 beyond all recognition, and beyond the intended meaning of what is written.

I disagree though that the millennium is still part of the current age (as you know).

In Revelation 11, the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of Christ at the 7th trumpet - when the dead are raised.

The Lord God omnipotent reigns in Rev.19:6.

Paul links the regeneration of the creation to the resurrection of the saints in Romans 8:

21 That the creation itself shall also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So the Lord God omnipotent reigns in Rev.19:6, and the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has prepared herself. In Rev.21:2 New Jerusalem is prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Those arrayed in white robes who came out of great tribulation in Rev.7:13-17 who "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" are promised that they will be before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple, and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto fountains of living waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

It's the same promises made to those who overcame - the bride of Christ - in Rev.21:3-4, and the same promises were already made to those who will overcome by Christ to his churches:

1. "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give him to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.".

2. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death. (Rev.2:11)

etc

So I believe (as you know) that the NHNE and the millennium commence at the same time - but if what I say is true, then the following can't also be true:​

I think you have also seen where my dilemma lies:

There is also a problem with what I have said above, because the metaphor of the destruction of the armies of Gog of Magog appearing in both Ezekiel 39:17-22 and Rev.19:17-18 cannot be referring both to the judgment of the beast in Revelation 19:17-21 AND to the close of the millennium in both Ezekiel 39:17-22 and Revelation 20:7-10.

That metaphor actually pushes the judgment of the beast to the close of the millennium, if the metaphor used for the judgment of Gog is meant only for the judgment of Gog of Magog and his armies.

So I'm glad that you are exploring this.

And because it's now so late in my part of the world my brain doesn't even know anymore what it's confused about. I'll come back to this tomorrow to see what else you have said in this thread about it - because it is, for me, a VERY important topic and 100% pertinent to our interpretation of Revelation chapters 19 through 22.​

.. and though others may know or think they know how and where it all fits, I do not. When the scriptures prove I have no answer, then I know it, such as now.

If I'm going to be honest here, if it wasn't for Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12, it appears that Ezekiel 38 and 39 prove Amil, thus disprove Premil. On the surface Ezekiel 38 and 39 appear to be involving 2 different battles. But on closer examination that appears to not be the case. Thus it is only involving one battle not two different ones. The same can be argued about Revelation 19 and 20 by Amils, that, though these chapters appear to be involving 2 different battles, they are actually only involving one battle.

If we were to use Ezekiel 38 and 39 to interpret Revelation 19 and 20, we would then treat Revelation 19 and 20 in the same manner we are treating Ezekiel 38 and 39, that only one battle is involved, not 2 battles seperated by a lengthy period of time. But then we have to explain how Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12 makes sense if we are also applying that to the battle after the thousand years in Revelation 20, where what follows that is the GWTJ. As if makes sense that Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12 can fit after Revelation 20:9-10 but prior to Revelation 20:11-15. IOW, Revelation 20:9-10, then the aftermath of that involving Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12, then the great white throne judgment.

There is no way around it, Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12 have to fit somewhere, and that one is involving 7 years and the other one is involving 7 months, and that neither can be fulfilled until the great supper of God is fulfilled first.

 

[Douggg]

Don't make it hard, It is easy.

Ezekiel 38 and 39 both involve the Gog/Magog event.

Ezekiel 38 - addresses the nations that will make up the Gog/Magog force.

Ezekiel 39 - addresses what will happen following the Gog/Magog event, which is...

Gog/Magog

followed by 7 years in verses 9-10, corresponding to the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27

followed by the Armageddon event in verses 17-20 (corresponding to the Revelation 19 verses)

followed by Jesus Himself speaking in the text in verses 21-29 having returned to this earth, His Second Coming.

verse 28 the final complete gathering of the house of Israel back to the land of Israel, corresponding to Matthew 24:31.

 

[Douggg]

There is no way around it, Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12 have to fit somewhere, and that one is involving 7 years and the other one is involving 7 months, and that neither can be fulfilled until the great supper of God is fulfilled first.

The 7 years is the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

The 7 months is the first 7 months of the 7 years. After which, animals sacrifices will begin again - to initiate the 2300 days of Daniel 8:13-14. 7months (210 days) + 2300 days = 2510 days (the 7 years is 2520 days).

A quick building of the temple (minimum sized to start with) and brazen altar will take place during the 7 months. The prince that shall come in Daniel 9:26, the little horn person, will be anointed the King of Israel thought-to-messiah (for a while) by the Jews.... thus, becoming the Antichrist.

As the Antichrist, he will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-10, and thus the 7 year 70th week will begin. With the world saying peace and safety, thinking it has entered the messianic age.

All of this to begin before the end of 2030. Could be much sooner.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Let's assume you might be correct here. We then have to factor in the following, then ask ourselves, how does verse 23 below make sense if that is meaning after the thousand years post the 2nd coming, that, though Christ has been physically present on the earth for 1000 years, He is not known in the eyes of many nations, thus they they don't even know that He is the LORD until after the thousand years end?

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


Not to mention, look at some of the following that precedes verse 23.

Ezekiel 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel ;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground
21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone .


Compare that with this, for instance.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great .
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great

No would one apply what is recorded in Revelation 16:17-21 to that of an era of time involving the end of the thousand years post the 2nd coming, right? This great earthquake mentioned in Revelation 16:18, is there any reason it can't explain what I have underlined in Ezekiel 38, verse 19 and 20? Ezekiel 38:19 records that there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel. And then in Revelation 16:19 because of this great earthquake per verse 18, it records that the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.

Then there is this recorded in Ezekiel 39.

Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.


Compare that with what is recorded per the 7th vial that I just submitted that appears to be connected with what I just submitted per Ezekiel 38.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Both accounts having this in common---and it is done(Ezekiel 39:8)---It is done(Revelation 16:17). Should we just chalk this up as a coincidence? Or is someone trying to tell us something here, that what is recorded in Ezekiel 38 and 39, and what is recorded in Revelation 16, these are involving the same events?

Yes, my personal opinion is that Eze 38-39 and Rev 16 are describing the end of this present age--the time of the 2nd Coming. Rev 20 talks about Gog and Magog, and it seems to be a reference to the Gog and Magog of Eze 38-39, only a different event at a different time.

 

[Davidpt]

Don't make it hard, It is easy.

Ezekiel 38 and 39 both involve the Gog/Magog event.

Ezekiel 38 - addresses the nations that will make up the Gog/Magog force.

Ezekiel 39 - addresses what will happen following the Gog/Magog event, which is...

Gog/Magog

followed by 7 years in verses 9-10, corresponding to the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27

followed by the Armageddon event in verses 17-20 (corresponding to the Revelation 19 verses)

followed by Jesus Himself speaking in the text in verses 21-29 having returned to this earth, His Second Coming.

verse 28 the final complete gathering of the house of Israel back to the land of Israel, corresponding to Matthew 24:31.

Apparently then, this means you have this first battle involving all of the below.

Ezekiel 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


Which includes this--and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

As if we should just ignore the part about it involving His presence, that because of His presense, the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Then magically, life resumes like normal, as if none of these things ever happened. As if nobody noticed His presence, nobody noticed every wall following to the ground. No one noticed something that has never happened one single time since I have been alive, meaning this--- and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

When is the last time since you have been alive on this earth that you have witnessed God raining upon people on the earth, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone? As if you had witnessed that in your life, that life could just magically return back to normal the next day, as if none of those things ever happened.

Then following these things, one then begins to burn all weapons of war, begins to cleanse the land of dead parts, then 7 years later, you have to do it all over again because what is recorded in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is not involving what is recorded in Ezekiel 38 and 39 leading up to these verses. Except God already destroyed all of the men of war per what is recorded in Ezekiel 38 and 39 leading up to these verses 17-20 in Ezekiel 39. And now he has to destroy men of war yet again, this time men of war in possession of no weapons at all since the Jews have been burning all weapons of war for the past 7 years.

Clearly then, nothing about your view makes any sense at all. Maybe to you it does, but it doesn't to some of the rest of us. I'm all for considering anything as a possibility if it is at least logical. Nothing even remotely logical about what you are proposing, though.

Maybe it can be argued in return by Amils that nothing about Premil makes any sense either, if He already destroyed all men of war in the end of this age, and then He has to do it again a thousand years later. What do we do with Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12 then? These verses have to fit somewhere and can't even fit until the great supper of God is fulfilled first, and that one is involving 7 years, the other 7 months, both being something that can't be fulfilled in a single day, obviously.

 

[Douggg]

Apparently then, this means you have this first battle involving all of the below.

Ezekiel 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


Which includes this--and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

As if we should just ignore the part about it involving His presence, that because of His presense, the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Then magically, life resumes like normal, as if none of these things ever happened. As if nobody noticed His presence, nobody noticed every wall following to the ground. No one noticed something that has never happened one single time since I have been alive, meaning this--- and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

When is the last time since you have been alive on this earth that you have witnessed God raining upon people on the earth, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone? As if you had witnessed that in your life, that life could just magically return back to normal the next day, as if none of those things ever happened.

Then following these things, one then begins to burn all weapons of war, begins to cleanse the land of dead parts, then 7 years later, you have to do it all over again because what is recorded in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is not involving what is recorded in Ezekiel 38 and 39 leading up to these verses. Except God already destroyed all of the men of war per what is recorded in Ezekiel 38 and 39 leading up to these verses 17-20 in Ezekiel 39. And now he has to destroy men of war yet again, this time men of war in possession of no weapons at all since the Jews have been burning all weapons of war for the past 7 years.

Clearly then, nothing about your view makes any sense at all. Maybe to you it does, but it doesn't to some of the rest of us. I'm all for considering anything as a possibility if it is at least logical. Nothing even remotely logical about what you are proposing, though.

Maybe it can be argued in return by Amils that nothing about Premil makes any sense either, if He already destroyed all men of war in the end of this age, and then He has to do it again a thousand years later. What do we do with Ezekiel 39:9 and Ezekiel 39:12 then? These verses have to fit somewhere and can't even fit until the great supper of God is fulfilled first, and that one is involving 7 years, the other 7 months, both being something that can't be fulfilled in a single day, obviously.

Read Ezekiel 39:21-29. It is Jesus Himself speaking in the text, having returned to this earth. Work back up through Ezekiel 39 from there.


21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[Davidpt]

Read Ezekiel 39:21-29. It is Jesus Himself speaking in the text, having returned to this earth. Work back up through Ezekiel 39 from there.


21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

We need to deal with the following first. IMO, anyway.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:


If this happens first, thus is not involving what is recorded in verses 17-20, then explain how the following makes these men of war if they are depicted as riding upon horses and chariots, but are not in possession of any instruments of war, such as shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, the fact Jews have been burning these things for the past 7 years?

Ezekiel 39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.


Clearly, since this will be involving the 21st century, assuming Christ returns during this century, literal shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, horses and chariots, are not meant. Ezekiel is simply describing things he is is seeing in the future that he is not familiar with and that he is then using things he is familiar with to describe them.

Think about it for a moment, though I doubt that you actually will, but instead you will continue to insist you are correct regardless, but what about these horses and chariots in verse 20? Obviously, they are not meaning literal horses and chariots if this is involving the 21st century. Therefore, they have to represent something pertaining to the 21st century. How about tanks, things of that nature? Wonder why the Jews never bothered to destroy those weapons of war as well during this 7 years leading up to verse 20?