How many have ever changed their minds...

[michaelvpardo]

@michaelvpardo Seems that the contexts of tongues was in the Apostolic period before the Scriptures were complete.

Apt comparison - in reverse - with the Tower of Babel.

Interestingly the French philosopher Jacques Derrida said that the Tower of Babel was a crucial event which made translation both obligatory and impossible...

I'm curious about the "pure language" to come.

 

[farouk]

I'm curious about the "pure language" to come.

@michaelvpardo "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent." A verse which has sometimes seen attempts to link it with the lost tribes of Israel. For my part, I don't see how the church fits in directly.

 

[michaelvpardo]

@michaelvpardo Anyway I don't think that the powerful Word is insufficient or that we need to add to it...

Who said anything about adding to the word? There's one book that I consistently skip over when reading scripture (though I've read it a number of times), it does absolutely nothing to build my theology and I never saw Christ in it, but it's there and there it will stay (and some people see what I don't). The Revelation of God in the person of His Son is a fixed thing (even though some cults have written their own translations to specifically deny that Jesus is Lord.)
I can see God in His works. I can hear His praises in the spontaneous shouts of infants resting in their mother's arms. I can feel the comfort of His Spirit when I'm injured. I can hear His word in my head when I have doubts. The scripture brings us to the Lord and we can spend time with Him reading scripture while He shows us the meaning, but if He's with you all the time, He's not going to remain silent. It's not revelation. It's friendship.

 

[Enoch111]

You have read Finney and thought his theology was peachy keen,is that right???

Finney did have a rather strange theology. He was rather wordy, but also a bit confused and confusing.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Nothing anywhere near it yet, but the thing is, I hold out the possibility that the Lord Jesus Christ can potentially still do greater works through me than he did in His own body if I give myself increasingly to obedience to the Spirit of God, thorough incessant prayer, continual fasting, and a life of utter consecration unto Him, until it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me, speaks through me, and acts through me.

I believe this should be the hope of every Christian, and that all should have hope that He can use them mightily if they will give themselves completely to Him.

God bless! And good to see you on the forum again.

It's a blessed thing to be used by God and an awesome thing to be a vessel for His Spirit. At some point though, I became fearful of loosing myself. I don't think it's the Lord's intention to make us all alike, but to renew us in His image. We were created for good works, to walk in them. Knowing God, having the privilege of being called a son, being loved by Him even when we were in the depths of sin and loving Him back, doing what we're told with a minimum of grumbling or complaint, it all seems like enough to me. Maybe I'm just a reprobate, but I'm not the man I was before I met the Lord and I suspect that I'll bear some fruit in my old age (the bible tells me so.) God bless you brother, (and it's clear to me that He already has.)

 

[Hidden In Him]

It's a blessed thing to be used by God and an awesome thing to be a vessel for His Spirit. At some point though, I became fearful of loosing myself. I don't think it's the Lord's intention to make us all alike, but to renew us in His image.

Great post. No indeed do we lose ourselves. The only thing we lose is that which belongs to the enemy, and was never intended to be a part of us anyway. I find that the closer we get to Him, the more we begin to find and fulfill what we were created to be anyway; we find our contentment and purpose, and everything finally starts fitting together and making sense : )

God bless you, too. Been enjoying your posts, and good to see you active here again.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

I changed from transubstantiation to consubstantiation

 

[farouk]

I changed from transubstantiation to consubstantiation

@2 Chr. 34:19 I guess I'm at a stage further; I would see the Lord's Supper as a remembrance, 1 Cor. 11.23-26.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

@2 Chr. 34:19 I guess I'm at a stage further; I would see the Lord's Supper as a remembrance, 1 Cor. 11.23-26.

Aaah yes emblem, been there too...move further

 

[Mayflower]

Just curious, but where in scripture do you find "apostolic gifts?" I've read at least 9 different translations of the Canon ( as well as a version of the apocrypha ) starting with the KJV and ending with the Complete Jewish Bible and I can't recall ever reading about apostolic gifts. I'm somewhat familiar with the gifts of the Spirit, but these are available to all and given by God's election to born again believers as enablement for the ministry to the church. The sign gifts (given to follow disciples to identify them as disciples) weren't necessarily discretionary, but spontaneous occurrence. What was it that was given to the Apostles that wasn't given to disciples for the purpose of ministry in the body of Christ?

I thought apostlea are ones who saw Christ in the flesh and prophets/prophecy are ehat is still today.

 

[Triumph1300]

We still have prophets today.
But there are a lot of false ones as well, be aware of them.

Just recently a "prophet" predicted foreign soldiers on US soil in the fall.
We'll see if thats going to happen! I forgot the guys name....

 

[michaelvpardo]

I thought apostlea are ones who saw Christ in the flesh and prophets/prophecy are ehat is still today.

The word apostle just means sent one, so technically anyone called by God to evangelize as a missionary is actually an apostle, but scripture usually used the term to refer to the 12 that Jesus called out publicly from His disciples, empowered to do healings and cast out unclean spirits, and then sent out to the town's and villages to prepare them for His own arrival at their synagogues. Some versions of the bible use a capital A as in Apostle to identify them from someone like Barnabus, the companion of the Apostle Paul for a time. Paul himself was a notable exception, because he met Jesus after the resurrection, but was called, empowered, and sent out as an apostle to the gentiles.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We still have prophets today.
But there are a lot of false ones as well, be aware of them.

Just recently a "prophet" predicted foreign soldiers on US soil in the fall.
We'll see if thats going to happen! I forgot the guys name....

Yeah, I know who you are talking about, and I am watching that one as well. At first I balked at that part as well, but after I thought about it, if the country completely went to Hell with BLM rioting all over major cities far worse than they ever have before (as predicted), it would wear police protection and even the National Guard thin in some places, potentially necessitating the augment of foreign peace keepers.

But time will tell. I personally hold those dreams to be likely, given some dreams I've received as well. But there was no word on if they were unconditional (i.e. unavoidable) or conditional upon the prayers of the saints. So we'll see.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I changed from transubstantiation to consubstantiation

I remember transubstantiation from my youth and days in catechism classes, but what exactly is consubstantiation?
Nevermind, I looked it up and had no idea that such a view was held by the Anglican church and the Lutheran. Interesting distinction, but the doctrine isn't necessary unless you believe that a priesthood is necessary to dole out grace.
In the Baptist churches that I attended for a decade or so, the doctrine was limited to remembrance, but it's no small thing to testify to the belief that Jesus will return for His church, and communion is a testimony by performance.
"For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes." 1 Corinthians 11:26
I don't believe understanding the reasons for the act are nearly as important as the faith in performing it and the curse against "those who swear falsely" in the name of God. Hypocrisy and deception in regard to belief in the Lord and His return are major transgressions with serious consequences .

 

[John Caldwell]

I remember transubstantiation from my youth and days in catechism classes, but what exactly is consubstantiation?

Lutheran belief. The presence of Christ is along side (or coexist with) the elements.

I changed from it being a symbol to something approaching consubstantiation. I'm between consubstantiation and symbolism.

 

[historyb]

Consubstantiation is a Christian theological doctrine that (like transubstantiation) describes the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It holds that during the sacrament, the substance of the body and blood of Christ are present alongside the substance of the bread and wine, which remain present.

Consubstantiation - Wikipedia

 

[michaelvpardo]

Lutheran belief. The presence of Christ is along side (or coexist with) the elements.

I changed from it being a symbol to something approaching consubstantiation. I'm between consubstantiation and symbolism.

Yeah, looked it up quickly and changed my post with an opinion added.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

Consubstantiation is a Christian theological doctrine that (like transubstantiation) describes the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It holds that during the sacrament, the substance of the body and blood of Christ are present alongside the substance of the bread and wine, which remain present.

Consubstantiation - Wikipedia

I believe He is present, spiritually

 

[Episkopos]

I believe He is present, spiritually

Or..He CAN be if He wishes. To make His presence to be something we control is like a form of conjuring. Way too religious.

But God is free to come and go as He pleases. Our job is to attract God by our faith and our acts.

 

[Mayflower]

I believe He is present, spiritually

So like consuming the spirit of Christ from the bread and juice? That is an interesting theology. I believe Christ is with us in spirit during the Lord's supper, but just not in the bread and juice.