How many have ever changed their minds...

[michaelvpardo]

Tongues (speaking human languages) was for unbelievers as well.

I've seen where it was in the book, the acts of the apostles, but why then is it also mentioned in Paul's instructions to the church? I think it's a pretty useless gift in the context of the church, but it was allowed in a limited way, requiring an interpreter and limiting the numbers of those speaking. There must have been a point, but I don't see it. At Pentecost it made sense. God scattered the peoples of Earth from the plains of shinar confusing them by changing their languages. In Christ God gathers all the nation's of the Earth (peoples from all nations) and Pentecost was a potent sign of that fundamental truth (like the events of the tower of Babel in reverse.)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Of course it is God doing the healing; no one is arguing that.

Well good. You had commented about no one being as powerful as Jesus, so it necessitated my response.

The issue is, listen to me closely now, when individuals claim to be "apostles/prophets" but actually they're not, they are wolves in sheep clothing leading people astray. That is the issue.

Well now this is actually a different issue than the one we've been discussing. If this were a stand-alone statement, we would have no disagreement whatsoever.

There are no modern day apostles that God is working through as in the Scriptures.

I personally know of no apostles yet either, but I do know of some prophets, actually several, which is where our bone of contention has been this entire time. You were asking me who they were, remember? And no, at this point in the conversation that's still not something I would divulge. If you don't believe prophecy is possible anymore, you would reject them out hand without consideration, and that's not the way things are supposed to operate in a two-way conversation. Certainly you would have your right to reject them, but it would not be a conversation if you would reject it with a completely closed mind regardless of anything I would present in support.

I believe it to be the destruction of Jerusalem. I know what your answer might likely be too, probably John Hagee's Four Blood Moon book.

I forget what the question was, but whatever the answer is it was not John Hagee. The Blood Moon thing was a farce from Day #1.

Anyway, be blessed. If I have time tomorrow I'll try and keep up with this one. I have other projects.

God bless,
Hidden

 

[Episkopos]

What is sad is when believers are not able to "add to your faith" anything that is outside their indoctrination. They have a rigid system of beliefs that one must hold to in it's entirety or not at all. So then other members of the body have no function towards them at all. They have adopted a dogmatic stance whereby you agree with them or else NO love at all. it's all about semantics and word structures. That is the essence of being a Pharisee. It's not just doctrine over people...it's the slightest difference in doctrinal understanding over love.
But a good and sound doctrine puts love before knowledge. Knowledge puffs up (even if that knowledge isn't true) but love edifies.

A person who loves has better doctrine. What is your doctrine doing for you? What is it causing you to do?

 

[Episkopos]

"We gulp down the lies that flatter us but we only receive the truth that is bitter to us in drops (if at all)"

Diderot

 

[Preacher4Truth]

My hope was being saved several years ago from the word of faith movement and its lies.

Amen! Now if others would only be rescued by Sovereign grace and mercy.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Better to be in line with the Word of God

Yes, and with Christ.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

People can say a lot of things over the Internet. Am I suppose to just take someones word that I've never met before as fact?

That's just as naive as people believing Perry Stone when he talks about the "Meal that Heals" as he wears eye glasses.

Correct. In spiritual matters we are not obligated, as some imply, to believe the stories of miracles and signs and dreams and wonders. Some feel we must believe them, yet we are only obligated to believe what God says, and are to examine what others say by the word. By this we see their stories fail the test many times.

Yet, for the record, I do believe God can and does heal, and these are always documentable cases, not secret cases coupled with you better believe me, and if not you're "blaspheming the Holy Ghost" caveat.

As per scripture the healings that took place were well documented, witnessed, and were spread abroad. Jeff Durbin recently had adopted a child that had spina bifida, known prior to birth, but still wanted to adopt the child. When the child was born, there was no spina bifida, and it is all documented.

 

[Pearl]

I don't think I have ever changed my mind about anything but I have seen some things more clearly as a result of reading some of the posts.

 

[Nancy]

I guess that is better than having rocks in your head. Boom! Boom!

Um, yeah...much better

 

[amadeus]

Holding the Bible - The Word of God - to the same standard of anyone posting on the Internet shows a lack of understanding...Just saying. That was a horrible example for you to try and make a case lol.

Well it is you who chooses what you do here, my friend. Hopefully you are talking to Him each day and listening to Him as one of His sheep that hears and listens.

Give God the glory!

 

[Triumph1300]

Charles Finney was a Presbyterian minister (he studied under George Gale) , so there are things about his theology I do not affirm. I worry about his methods as well. But his much of his doctrine was actually close to Jonathan Edward's, which I appreciate.

None of that matters now. We are not his judge. God certainly used him for His kingdom. It is never the man, always God.

I mentioned him just to show that miracles still happen.
But God never changes, so it should not be a surprise really.

 

[Triumph1300]

Finney was a misguided lawyer and did more harm then good.

How do you know?
It's one thing to post an opinion without backing it up.
That's like hit and run.

Btw. pharisees said the same about Jesus and his apostles.

 

[Triumph1300]

God certainly used him for His kingdom.

It's all that matters, isn't it?

 

[Triumph1300]

There are no modern day apostles that God is working through as in the Scriptures.

As I mentioned before, God said He never changes.
Good thing He said it.
Otherwise some people might actually believe your statement.

 

[Pearl]

My view is not important.
It's the biblical view which is important.
(As I pointed out in my previous post.)

But the unrest happens when people have different interpretations of the 'biblical view'. Sometime we just have to agree to disagree and a lot of people find it difficult to do that and so bash dissenters over the head with their own opinions.

 

[BarneyFife]

What is sad is when believers are not able to "add to your faith" anything that is outside their indoctrination. They have a rigid system of beliefs that one must hold to in it's entirety or not at all. So then other members of the body have no function towards them at all. They have adopted a dogmatic stance whereby you agree with them or else NO love at all. it's all about semantics and word structures. That is the essence of being a Pharisee. It's not just doctrine over people...it's the slightest difference in doctrinal understanding over love.
But a good and sound doctrine puts love before knowledge. Knowledge puffs up (even if that knowledge isn't true) but love edifies.

A person who loves has better doctrine. What is your doctrine doing for you? What is it causing you to do?

I guess being brought up in a military home and then doing a 4-year hitch myself has influenced me to crave orthodoxy. What to do? Fact is, I'm perfectly comfortable with all the tenets of my denominational faith. But I totally respect the wishes of others to worship according to the dictates of their conscience. In fact, I believe it is of the utmost importance. In one sense, I believe religious liberty is the issue that is at stake within the Gospel itself. In the past, I have only given this lip service, but after experiencing the pluralism of Internet forums, I've had to learn to either put up or shut up.

I do believe that, in the judgment, it will be found that some things are going to have to have been gotten right by each individual, according to the conviction that has been granted them by the Holy Spirit. There is absolutely no way one can discern what this requirement is for another at present. I don't believe people will be lost because they were born under the wrong society, culture, etc. But I do believe that all the mercy and grace that has been or ever will be distributed, since Lucifer had his first little worship service for himself, will be directly attributable to the blessed Calvary event.

 

[Triumph1300]

Quote: Finney was a misguided lawyer and did more harm then good.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

He said it, and that's good enough for me.

 

[BarneyFife]

As I mentioned before, God said He never changes.
Good thing He said it.
Otherwise some people might actually believe your statement.

God, Himself indeed never changes. That's not hard to believe. But the way He deals with erring humans does change. The story is in the Bible. He meets people where they are. The children of Israel were so ignorant about human rights that, rather than lose them altogether by outlawing slavery, He instead made rules calculated to ensure better treatment of slaves than was previously practiced.

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. (John 16:12)

The Lord destroyed the entire earth with water and then promised never to do it again.

 

[bbyrd009]

I've seen where it was in the book, the acts of the apostles, but why then is it also mentioned in Paul's instructions to the church? I think it's a pretty useless gift in the context of the church, but it was allowed in a limited way, requiring an interpreter and limiting the numbers of those speaking. There must have been a point, but I don't see it. At Pentecost it made sense. God scattered the peoples of Earth from the plains of shinar confusing them by changing their languages. In Christ God gathers all the nation's of the Earth (peoples from all nations) and Pentecost was a potent sign of that fundamental truth (like the events of the tower of Babel in reverse.)

fwiw if you find a better def of "speaking in tongues" it starts to make more sense imo

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess being brought up in a military home and then doing a 4-year hitch myself has influenced me to crave orthodoxy. What to do? Fact is, I'm perfectly comfortable with all the tenets of my denominational faith. But I totally respect the wishes of others to worship according to the dictates of their conscience. In fact, I believe it is of the utmost importance. In one sense, I believe religious liberty is the issue that is at stake within the Gospel itself. In the past, I have only given this lip service, but after experiencing the pluralism of Internet forums, I've had to learn to either put up or shut up.

I do believe that, in the judgment, it will be found that some things are going to have to have been gotten right by each individual, according to the conviction that has been granted them by the Holy Spirit. There is absolutely no way one can discern what this requirement is for another at present. I don't believe people will be lost because they were born under the wrong society, culture, etc. But I do believe that all the mercy and grace that has been or ever will be distributed, since Lucifer had his first little worship service for himself, will be directly attributable to the blessed Calvary event.

pick up your cross and follow
even greater things will you do in My Name