How many kingdoms in Daniel?

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again covenantee,

Acts 10 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Perhaps you do not appreciate the great work and bountiful harvest that Jesus and the resurrected and glorified faithful will accomplish during the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[covenantee]

Greetings again covenantee,

Perhaps you do not appreciate the great work and bountiful harvest that Jesus and the resurrected and glorified faithful will accomplish during the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor,

What Scripture are you referring to?

Do you appreciate the great work and bountiful harvest resulting from Christ's complete and perfect accomplishments at Calvary 2,000 years ago?


Paul identifies the remnant.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.

Blessings.

 

[Earburner]

It can't last more than 42 months. All false doctrine ignores what the bible says.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

You don't hear that I have said numerous times that the Composite Sea beast with 10 horns (Rev. 13:1-3) will finally be manifested as a Global Economic Empire, of which will be FOR ONLY 42 months.
It will be during those 42 mos. the beast will introduce the mark (digital ID) of the beast.....for buying and selling, which is economic.

 

[Earburner]

Greetings again covenantee,

Perhaps you do not appreciate the great work and bountiful harvest that Jesus and the resurrected and glorified faithful will accomplish during the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor

Actually, ever since Pentecost, all Amil. Believers appreciate the great work and bountiful harvest that Jesus and the (born again) faithful DO accomplish, during the present figurative 1000 years.
2 Peter 3:8-15
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as [like] a thousand years, and a thousand years [is] as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[10] But the [singular] day of the Lord will come [suddenly] as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

[14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord IS SALVATION;
even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

See 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

Edit: there is no time limit on the present Age of God's Grace, through faith in Jesus.
The only situation that will end His Age of Grace, is when people stop repenting towards God, through Jesus.
The mark of the beast will do that very thing, for it will literally separate the sheep from the goats.
Mat. 13:24-30
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time [in the midst] of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to BURN them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

[Keiw]

Below are the relevant verses in Daniel (stopped at Chapter 7) that discuss how many kingdoms are found, and my interpretations on those verses. Please consider.


Chapter 2

Dream Sequence:

31“You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome. 32This image’s head was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and [k]thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of [l]clay.

Here Daniel is telling us the “structure” of the kingdoms in this great image. Except for the head, each of the next 3 kingdoms are identified with having 2 body parts. The only kingdom that is symbolized with more than one metal component is the 4th which has a “clay” component WITHIN IT. This is because the clay will represent the Jewish people.


34You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.

The “Stone” (Messiah at His first coming) will strike the feet (not the legs) and break “them” (iron and clay components only) into pieces. This will symbolically separate the Jewish people from being encased in pagan Rome. The Jews expected their Messiah to come and destroy the iron legs and feet of pagan Rome, but Jesus did not come to destroy but to “divide.” Symbolically, the cross is the action that would separate the clay into two separate parts: the “pottery clay” would represent those Jews who would accept Him as their Messiah (after the cross) and preach the Good News to the world, while the “ceramic” clay represents those Jews who were “hardened” and would reject Him. And of course, the iron would still be iron along with the rest of the legs of pagan Rome.

Note: 2:35 represents His second coming where all things are destroyed.



Interpretation Sequence:

36...Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. 39But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others.

Within these “interpretation sequence” verses, Daniel identifies the 4 and only 4 kingdoms. And in verse 40, he reveals the 4th kingdom (pagan Rome – iron kingdom) will break in pieces and crush all the others (the other 3 kingdoms… no, they did not directly destroy Babylon, Medes-Persia, or Greece, but they destroyed ALL “OTHER NATIONS). Meaning, 2:34 did not destroy the entire image but only separated the iron and the clay within the feet.


So, within Chapter 2, Daniel reveals twice there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms found in the metal man image. The breaking of the two components of iron and clay within the feet does not create a 5th kingdom. It only separates the two symbolic materials.



Chapter 7

Dream Sequence:

3And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.5“And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet.

Here, Daniel is given his own dream where God reveals the same 4 and only 4 kingdoms that come out of the sea (instability / turmoil). It also confirms the 4th beast kingdom of iron (pagan Rome) is the same 4th kingdom that is so destructive as the 4th kingdom in Chapter 2. And notice, there is no mention whatsoever of a 5th kingdom.



4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome):

11“I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

Here, Daniel is telling us the 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome) will be slain and its body destroyed. The timing of this is approx.. 476 BC. The “rest of the beasts” (Babylon, Medes-Persians and Greece) will never again come to power and rule over another kingdom, but of course, they (people, culture, etc.,) will continue living.

4th beast kingdom (papal Rome):

17‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four [h]kings which arise out of the earth. 19“Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke Daniel 7 NKJVpompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.

Once again, Daniel confirm there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms / beasts that come out of the earth (God has selected these 4 and only 4 kingdoms to reveal His plan of salvation in). However, Daniel is having difficulty recognizing this [new / different] 4th beast; it was different from “all the others,” and here “the others” would include pagan Rome which he saw before it was slain. These verses reveal the 4 kingdoms AFTER pagan Rome was slain and its body was destroyed. Still 4 kingdoms but this [new or replaced power] now is revealed not only with “teeth of iron” but now with “nails of bronze.” Now, this 4th beast kingdom has 10 horns coming out of it and a little horn coming out of it after the 10. This “4th beast” doesn’t look at all like the 4th beast he saw earlier. In Chapter 2, the Stone broke into pieces the iron and clay within the feet. As a consequence of the only event in Chapter 2, we find in Chapter 7 there are now two additional entities that have “come out” of pagan Rome (BEFORE the demise of pagan Rome) – the 10 horns and the little horn.


Interpretation Sequence:

23“Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,

Here is the Chapter 7 interpretation sequence, Gabriel reveals the truth about this [new] 4th kingdom that Daniel does not recognize and wants to know more about. This 4th beast will be different from “all the other kingdoms” – this would include pagan Rome but Gabriel still tells him there are only 4. But there will be 10 kings that WERE earlier referred to as “horns,” and another “little horn” that shall arise after them who will subdue 3 of the 10. Apparently, the “little horn” has grown in power and has now subdued 3 of the 10 that came out of pagan Rome initially.

The clay represents a weakness.

 

[CTK]

The clay represents a weakness.

Thank you and why do you say that?

 

[Keiw]

Thank you and why do you say that?

Its referring to the final world power- feet of clay= a weakness unlike its predecessors.

 

[CTK]

Its referring to the final world power- feet of clay= a weakness unlike its predecessors.

Thanks for your response....Have you ever thought it might represent the Jewish people held under the control of the Roman Empire during the time of Christ.... I would ask that you might consider how Daniel begins with their captivity in Babylon and continues through the 4 kingdoms until the time of the cross. God is recording the travels of His people through these 4 kingdoms until the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy which would end exactly 3.5 years after the cross. Daniel is writing about His people during the period from 606 BC to the cross. If you consider verse 2:34, which tells us the Stone (Messiah) will strike the feet of the metal man image. Although everyone contends this destroys the entire image, that is not true because the "Stone" identifies Jesus at His first coming and He strikes the feet and breaks apart the iron and the clay COMPONENTS (symbolically) within the feet. But verse 2:35 speaks of the true end times when He returns and destroys the wicked and everything. So there is a 2000 time gap between 2:34 and 2:35.

If you study the very complicated verses in 2:41-2:43 you will find how the 4th beast kingdom was divided (symbolically) by the Stone and the effect was to separate His people from their being "encased" or held in power by Rome. When Jesus began His ministry there would be two separate groups that would come out of this symbolic "striking:" one group would come to be identiied as "pottery clay" and they represented those Jews who would come to accept Him as their Messiah and He would send them out into the world preaching the Good News. The second group, much more numerous, would represent those Jews who rejected and crucified Him. They would be referred to as "ceramic clay" because their hearts were hardened and God could not use them. God is the potter.

 

[Keiw]

Thanks for your response....Have you ever thought it might represent the Jewish people held under the control of the Roman Empire during the time of Christ.... I would ask that you might consider how Daniel begins with their captivity in Babylon and continues through the 4 kingdoms until the time of the cross. God is recording the travels of His people through these 4 kingdoms until the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy which would end exactly 3.5 years after the cross. Daniel is writing about His people during the period from 606 BC to the cross. If you consider verse 2:34, which tells us the Stone (Messiah) will strike the feet of the metal man image. Although everyone contends this destroys the entire image, that is not true because the "Stone" identifies Jesus at His first coming and He strikes the feet and breaks apart the iron and the clay COMPONENTS (symbolically) within the feet. But verse 2:35 speaks of the true end times when He returns and destroys the wicked and everything. So there is a 2000 time gap between 2:34 and 2:35.

If you study the very complicated verses in 2:41-2:43 you will find how the 4th beast kingdom was divided (symbolically) by the Stone and the effect was to separate His people from their being "encased" or held in power by Rome. When Jesus began His ministry there would be two separate groups that would come out of this symbolic "striking:" one group would come to be identiied as "pottery clay" and they represented those Jews who would come to accept Him as their Messiah and He would send them out into the world preaching the Good News. The second group, much more numerous, would represent those Jews who rejected and crucified Him. They would be referred to as "ceramic clay" because their hearts were hardened and God could not use them. God is the potter.

its about now in these last days

 

[CTK]

its about now in these last days

Well, I have given you my interpretation... I don't know yours but that is fine. Thanks.

 

[Keiw]

Well, I have given you my interpretation... I don't know yours but that is fine. Thanks.

Reality is what counts. Daniel is the key to unlocking Revelation, Revelation is about these last days. Daniel did have some fullfillment back then but has much in the last days as well.

 

[ewq1938]

Reality is what counts. Daniel is the key to unlocking Revelation,

There are many examples where Daniel and Revelation contradict each other though such as 3 of the 10 horns in Daniel are plucked up but this does not happen to any of the 10 horns in Rev.

 

[Keiw]

There are many examples where Daniel and Revelation contradict each other though such as 4 of the 10 horns in Daniel are plucked up but this does not happen to any of the 10 horns in Rev.

The 10 horns are of these last days. Horn = a kingdom.

 

[ewq1938]

The 10 horns are of these last days. Horn = a kingdom.

10 of them, never does Rev state 3 horns are plucked up like Daniel described.

 

[Keiw]

10 of them, never does Rev state 3 horns are plucked up like Daniel described.

10 horns=Rev 13--Could that mean a place where kingdoms gather?

 

[ewq1938]

10 horns=Rev 13--Could that mean a place where kingdoms gather?

No. The heads are the areas of land where the horns/kings with kingdoms are located.

 

[Keiw]

No. The heads are the areas of land where the horns/kings with kingdoms are located.

The 7 heads represent the 7 world powers of all time-The 2 horned beast of rev 13 is the last. All have watched it for many years now.

 

[CTK]

The 7 heads represent the 7 world powers of all time-The 2 horned beast of rev 13 is the last. All have watched it for many years now.

Who do you believe is the earth beast?

 

[Keiw]

Who do you believe is the earth beast?

What do you mean the Earth beast?

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings Keiw,

What do you mean the Earth beast?

Revelation 13:1,11–12 (KJV): 1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Kind regards
Trevor