How many kingdoms in Daniel?

[CTK]

What do you mean the Earth beast?

Well, there are two beasts in 13 - the sea and the earth beast... who are they?

 

[ewq1938]

The 7 heads represent the 7 world powers of all time

The beast rises up and has all 7 heads. They are not world powers from "all time". The heads are mountains according to John, and mountains can be any land above sea level so islands or continents etc. Heads are the areas of land where the ten kings/horns have their kingdoms.

 

[Keiw]

Greetings Keiw,

Revelation 13:1,11–12 (KJV): 1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Kind regards
Trevor

Symbolism. In Daniel each world power was given the mark of a beast)-horns = kingdoms- This is the eighth king who isn't like the rest.( not a country) but a place where kingdoms gather-thus 10 horns. The 2 horned beast is the final world power. #7

 

[Keiw]

Well, there are two beasts in 13 - the sea and the earth beast... who are they?

post 284

 

[Keiw]

The beast rises up and has all 7 heads. They are not world powers from "all time". The heads are mountains according to John, and mountains can be any land above sea level so islands or continents etc. Heads are the areas of land where the ten kings/horns have their kingdoms.

Its symbolic.

 

[Wish-it]

Below are the relevant verses in Daniel (stopped at Chapter 7) that discuss how many kingdoms are found, and my interpretations on those verses. Please consider.


Chapter 2

Dream Sequence:

31“You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome. 32This image’s head was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and [k]thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of [l]clay.

Here Daniel is telling us the “structure” of the kingdoms in this great image. Except for the head, each of the next 3 kingdoms are identified with having 2 body parts. The only kingdom that is symbolized with more than one metal component is the 4th which has a “clay” component WITHIN IT. This is because the clay will represent the Jewish people.


34You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.

The “Stone” (Messiah at His first coming) will strike the feet (not the legs) and break “them” (iron and clay components only) into pieces. This will symbolically separate the Jewish people from being encased in pagan Rome. The Jews expected their Messiah to come and destroy the iron legs and feet of pagan Rome, but Jesus did not come to destroy but to “divide.” Symbolically, the cross is the action that would separate the clay into two separate parts: the “pottery clay” would represent those Jews who would accept Him as their Messiah (after the cross) and preach the Good News to the world, while the “ceramic” clay represents those Jews who were “hardened” and would reject Him. And of course, the iron would still be iron along with the rest of the legs of pagan Rome.
.

Well done for recognizing the clay as Israel,(Lam 4 2, Ezek 4.1, Isa 64.8 ) most don't, but it has to be, the final battle is iron verses clay, Exek 4.1-3. With the Lord allowing it as judgment on Israel, but they will be saved out it. That the end of the trouble of Jacob. Then Zech 13.7+
So the surrounding nations against israel
Also I treat Dan 11 the King of the South as Israel, king of the North, the AC as king of Assyria, and the coalition. Nahum 3.18

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well done for recognizing the clay as Israel,(Lam 4 2, Ezek 4.1, Isa 64.8 ) most don't, but it has to be, the final battle is iron verses clay, Exek 4.1-3. With the Lord allowing it as judgment on Israel, but they will be saved out it. That the end of the trouble of Jacob. Then Zech 13.7+
So the surrounding nations against israel
Also I treat Dan 11 the King of the South as Israel, king of the North, the AC as king of Assyria, and the coalition. Nahum 3.18

Zechariah 13:7 was fulfilled long ago, so why are you trying to place its fulfillment in the future?

Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Jesus quoted Zechariah 13:7 in relation to His disciples scattering because of fear when He was taken to be crucified. So, there is no basis for trying to apply that verse to a future event.

 

[Wish-it]

I believe God can speak to each generation in their own time, I tend to not limit prophecy to the past, as by doing so, it may limit hearing what He is saying to our generation.

 

[Wish-it]

Zechariah 13:7 was fulfilled long ago, so why are you trying to place its fulfillment in the future?

Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Jesus quoted Zechariah 13:7 in relation to His disciples scattering because of fear when He was taken to be crucified. So, there is no basis for trying to apply that verse to a future event.

I believe God can speak to each generation in their own time, I tend to not limit prophecy to the past, as by doing so, it may limit hearing what He is saying to our generation

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe God can speak to each generation in their own time, I tend to not limit prophecy to the past, as by doing so, it may limit hearing what He is saying to our generation

You can just make scripture say whatever you want it to say if you don't accept the explanations given in scripture of the fulfillments of prophecies. I guess, in your mind, Zechariah 13:7 has several fulfillments? This is not the way to interpret scripture.

 

[covenantee]

I believe God can speak to each generation in their own time, I tend to not limit prophecy to the past, as by doing so, it may limit hearing what He is saying to our generation

Does Matthew 26:31 limit Zechariah 13:7?

 

[Wick Stick]

You can just make scripture say whatever you want it to say if you don't accept the explanations given in scripture of the fulfillments of prophecies. I guess, in your mind, Zechariah 13:7 has several fulfillments? This is not the way to interpret scripture.

Except, it's precisely how Matthew, Mark and Luke interpret Scripture

 

[Wish-it]

Does Matthew 26:31 limit Zechariah 13:7?

I'd consider its an excellent example of how scripture is used for each generation. Also consider Acts 17.21+ and Joel 2.28+. More than likely useful in the time to come.

 

[Wish-it]

That doesn't seem like a bad thing...

Yes. It's pretty easy to match Dan 11 against history and see that the 'king of the north' corresponds to the Seleucids and the 'king of the south' the Ptolemies. The Romans are there too, but they're the "ships from Chittim."

The prophets often have multiple fulfillments. It isn't necessary to deny the initial fulfillment in order to believe in a second fulfillment.

The problem is have with interpretations of Daniel 8, is that Gabriel gives the interpretation and then the timing.
Three times he states it's for the time of the end, and once more specifically 'for the time of wrath or indignation.
But its seems we wish to ignore Gabriel, who must've realized we would, so emphasized it. Dan 8.17,19, 26.
Some say it was for THAT time of the end. If that's the case why does Dan 11.36, Dan 12.1 (time of distress) Dan 12.4, 9, 13 use the same expression. Dan 12.13 states " you will rest, and then at the end of your days you will rise to receive your inheritance."

 

[Wick Stick]

The problem I have with interpretations of Daniel 8 is that Gabriel gives the interpretation and then the timing. Three times he states it's for the time of the end, and once more specifically 'for the time of wrath or indignation. But its seems we wish to ignore Gabriel, who must've realized we would, so emphasized it. Dan 8.17,19, 26.

The bit of mine you quoted was about Daniel 11. I know they're pretty close together, but I think Dan 8 is the end of one prophecy and chapter 9 starts a new prophecy. Daniel has several visions throughout those chapters. The symbols from chapter 8 don't necessarily correlate with the symbols in the later chapters.

Some say it was for THAT time of the end. If that's the case why does Dan 11.36, Dan 12.1 (time of distress) Dan 12.4, 9, 13 use the same expression. Dan 12.13 states " you will rest, and then at the end of your days you will rise to receive your inheritance."

I think the idea of "the end" and "the last" is pretty fluid in the books of prophecy. An argument can be made for it being "the end of the universe," but "the end of the age" and "the end of the nation" are competing views that shouldn't be trivial.

 

[covenantee]

I'd consider its an excellent example of how scripture is used for each generation. Also consider Acts 17.21+ and Joel 2.28+. More than likely useful in the time to come.

The excellent example of Zechariah 13:7 is its fulfillment in Matthew 26:31.

The excellent example of Joel 2:28 is its fulfillment in Acts 2:17.

Acts 17:21 ?

 

[Wish-it]

The bit of mine you quoted was about Daniel 11. I know they're pretty close together, but I think Dan 8 is the end of one prophecy and chapter 9 starts a new prophecy. Daniel has several visions throughout those chapters. The symbols from chapter 8 don't necessarily correlate with the symbols in the later chapters.

I think the idea of "the end" and "the last" is pretty fluid in the books of prophecy. An argument can be made for it being "the end of the universe," but "the end of the age" and "the end of the nation" are competing views that shouldn't be trivial.

I'd view the book of Daniel all as views of the same prophecy displaying different parts of the whole.
Ie Dan 2, Dan 7, Dan 8, Dan 11 the various nations mentioned are the same, but some of the clues can be in different visions. So I'd consider them inter- related. And of course they all relate to other prophecies in scripture ie Rev, Ezek, Zech. Our job is see the links, which also reveal the timings of the various events. Ie Dan 7.21,24 the holy people, again in Dan 8.13, 23, Dan 11.30 etc. Dan 11.4.
With the time of the end etc, I think its important for our generation to recognize that they all apply to the same period. It fits incredibly well in my view and makes prophecy so much easier to understand, and its simplicity is what I would expect from our God.
Even with Dan 11, the countries represented are explained in the previous chapters. Ie the fourth beast of Dan 2, is the beast in Dan 7.7,23, Dan 8.8,22

 

[Wish-it]

The excellent example of Zechariah 13:7 is its fulfillment in Matthew 26:31.

The excellent example of Joel 2:28 is its fulfillment in Acts 2:17.

Acts 17:21 ?

Oops Acts 2.17+.
So will we see them again, I believe so in the time ahead.

 

[covenantee]

Oops Acts 2.17+.
So will we see them again, I believe so in the time ahead.

We see them today. The Holy Spirit through inspired Scripture shows them to us. They are expressed in the past and present tenses.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Except, it's precisely how Matthew, Mark and Luke interpret Scripture

No, it isn't. Jesus interpreted Zechariah 13:7 in relation to His first coming, not His second coming, so we should trust that Jesus understood what the verse is about and not try to change it.