How many on this forum...

[Brakelite]

... Believe it is a bad thing for the church to use the state to enforce Christian doctrine, like the Catholic Church did during the dark ages, and the church of England did after Henry VIII? (and several other examples as well such Calvin's Geneva.)

 

[HealthyShape]

I do. I do not want people to be persecuted or killed again just because they believe differently from the government.

 

[Brakelite]

I do. I do not want people to be persecuted or killed again just because they believe differently from the government.

Good on you. History has proved time and again that when government is used as a substitute for spiritual power, persecution has always been the inevitable result.
So why is it, despite the obvious examples throughout human history and the evils that followed, American churches are so bent on repeating it?

 

[Muna]

Ofourse no, but in the scriptures it appears the Jews held signficant power to sway the actions of the governments by manipulating them to move by saying things like

John 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

And they are shown manipulating the multitudes against the truth

Mat 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

Release to us the murderers and condemn the innocent, by false accusation (which appears to be their MO)

I think they cried something like.... what was it? ....."cancel him"! (?)

No, no.... that wasn't it, it was "crucify him"! (thats right, where's my head?)

 

[quietthinker]

... Believe it is a bad thing for the church to use the state to enforce Christian doctrine, like the Catholic Church did during the dark ages, and the church of England did after Henry VIII? (and several other examples as well such Calvin's Geneva.)

I'm sure that any enforcement of 'thou shalt not commit adultery' would have all the ingredients for a call to arms by the populace!.....tele evangelists, university students, the Jeffery Epstein's and Donald Trumps of this world including many Mum and Dad 'investors' in the system.

 

[Muna]

John the baptist was not in government but he did reprove Herod saying, "Its not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife"

Speaking truth to power (there) got John beheaded.

But there was this one thing the Catholic church did, maybe someone can correct me as to who did this but they dug up a dead body (and judged the dead person) and then buried him or something, anyone recall that?

Awh... nevermind, I said was not going to click on any links but my curiosity got the best of me

It was that thing called "the cadaver synod" where they put a dead body on trial (as if the dead were raised in the presence of God to be judged by them) which is one of the most insane things I ever heard before.

https://www.historyskills.com/classroom/ancient-history/cadaver-synod/

 

[quietthinker]

John the baptist was not in government but he did reprove Herod saying, "Its not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife"

Speaking truth to power (there) got John beheaded.

But there was this one thing the Catholic church did, maybe someone can correct me as to who did this but they dug up a dead body (and judged the dead person) and then buried him or something, anyone recall that?

Awh... nevermind, I said was not going to click on any links but my curiosity got the best of me

It was that thing called "the cadaver synod" where they put a dead body on trial (as if the dead were raised in the presence of God to be judged by them) which is one of the most insane things I ever heard before.

https://www.historyskills.com/classroom/ancient-history/cadaver-synod/

The expression 'speaking truth to power' is the domain of those who feel they know something that those in power don't know.
Those in power know the truth alright and artfully dodge its inconvenience.
Truth spoken and lived has the tendency to make years lived, short.

 

[Lambano]

Good on you. History has proved time and again that when government is used as a substitute for spiritual power, persecution has always been the inevitable result.
So why is it, despite the obvious examples throughout human history and the evils that followed, American churches are so bent on repeating it?

We're too lazy to do the hard work of evangelism and discipleship and prefer to outsource it to the government.

 

[HealthyShape]

So why is it, despite the obvious examples throughout human history and the evils that followed, American churches are so bent on repeating it?

What do you mean, specifically?

 

[Brakelite]

I'm sure that any enforcement of 'thou shalt not commit adultery' would have all the ingredients for a call to arms by the populace!.....tele evangelists, university students, the Jeffery Epstein's and Donald Trumps of this world including many Mum and Dad 'investors' in the system.

Yes, and rather difficult to police.

 

[Brakelite]

What do you mean, specifically?

Paula White Ministries on Instagram: "Today President Trump signed a historic executive order on The White House Faith Office. Prayers are being answered and God is moving in America. YOUR prayers matter, But we MUST remain in prayer! Pray for our

283 likes, 34 comments - paulawhiteministries_official on February 7, 2025: "Today President Trump signed a historic executive order on The White House Faith Office. Prayers are being answered and God is moving in America. YOUR prayers matter, But we MUST remain in prayer! Pray for our nation...

www.instagram.com

 

[Brakelite]

What do you mean, specifically?

“And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. ”
Revelation 13:3 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[shepherdsword]

... Believe it is a bad thing for the church to use the state to enforce Christian doctrine, like the Catholic Church did during the dark ages, and the church of England did after Henry VIII? (and several other examples as well such Calvin's Geneva.)

Don't worry...the US isn't going to pass a Sunday sabbath law. We have separation of church and state

 

[HealthyShape]

“And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. ”
Revelation 13:3 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

View attachment 73479

Come on... don't be irrational.

 

[HealthyShape]

Paula White Ministries on Instagram: "Today President Trump signed a historic executive order on The White House Faith Office. Prayers are being answered and God is moving in America. YOUR prayers matter, But we MUST remain in prayer! Pray for our

283 likes, 34 comments - paulawhiteministries_official on February 7, 2025: "Today President Trump signed a historic executive order on The White House Faith Office. Prayers are being answered and God is moving in America. YOUR prayers matter, But we MUST remain in prayer! Pray for our nation...

www.instagram.com

I will not click on instagram.

Say in your words, one or two sentences, what you specifically mean by "American churches are so bent on repeating it".

 

[Brakelite]

Don't worry...the US isn't going to pass a Sunday sabbath law. We have separation of church and state

Not according to the current administration.

 

[marks]

Not according to the current administration.

Which laws has congress passed dictating religious belief or practice? Has President Trump signed any executive orders to that effect?

Much love!

 

[shepherdsword]

Not according to the current administration.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Brakelite]

We're too lazy to do the hard work of evangelism and discipleship and prefer to outsource it to the government.

And raising our children

 

[Brakelite]

Care to elaborate?

The full speech by JD Vance to Turning Point USA reveals his desire to categorically tear down any wall between church and state.. PROJECT 2025, where Christian nationalism is promoted as the future go to for America, apparently 80% or more completed.
If anyone here has any doubts as to whether a possible Sunday law and/or anti Sabbath laws is in the future as our church has been teaching for 160 years, with disasters, both natural and man made as the catalyst, just use your friendly in house AI to do a search for you as to who is advocating such a law and how many are supporting it.
While you are about it, ask Trump, Vance, and those Christian leaders that congregate in the presidents office, if they believe in the separation of church and state.
Then, go to Revelation 13 and ask yourselves, what nations are there that could fulfill the role of the second beast from the land and implement religious laws in favor of Rome, reinstating Rome to her former power only on a global scale?