How old is the Earth?

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for answering.

The Bible was never intended as a science textbook. It is a book about God (although Pastor Begg says it is really a book about Jesus). God reveals His character, expectations, promises, warnings, . . . . Are there any references to technology changes from Abraham to Jesus, other than a passing reference to the introduction of iron implements?

If no person witnessed an event, we cannot deduce what happened? If true, how could we solve any crimes without witnesses? Solve the reason an airplane crashed? How has science verified the occurrence of events described in the Bible (e.g., King David’s occupation of Jerusalem)?

Does it matter? Atheists have slowly taken over the public square by taking no hostages in the culture wars. It doesn’t need to be that way. Science can be taught as God-centered, instead of as random and purposeless.

Peace.

sorry brother. I can not agree

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Please provide a link to the “new science” about the layers in the Grand Canyon.

look it up. there are many things showing this.

creation science is a place to look.

Look up Dr Andrew Snelling

Watch the documentary serious is genesis history. the second part really gets into the grand canyon/

Creationscience.com

Dr Walk Brown

in fact. those who believe the canyon was created by the river is dwindling. even among secular science.

look up what happened at Mt St Helens, and what they are calling the "Mini Grand Canyon" and how it was formed in a matter of days. not billions of years.

I can go on and on

Again, this is all speculation and theory.. but so is all the evidence yuo would show.

people take the same evidence and have different reasons.

science has been doing this for many years now

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for responding.

When sediment is layered after a flood, the heaviest items settle first, etc., with the lightest on top. That is not what is observed.

Peace.

yes this is shown in the grand canyon.

 

[Bob]

yes this is shown in the grand canyon.

I watched a typical video on the “young” Grand Canyon. There were two spurious assumptions: (1) Noah’s flood occurred so the layer at the bottom must be from the flood. (2) The layer at the bottom is sandstone that easily fractures, so it must be “young.”
Not terribly good science.

Go in peace. The discussion has no more to add.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I watched a typical video on the “young” Grand Canyon. There were two spurious assumptions: (1) Noah’s flood occurred so the layer at the bottom must be from the flood. (2) The layer at the bottom is sandstone that easily fractures, so it must be “young.”
Not terribly good science.

Go in peace. The discussion has no more to add.

lol.. if this is all you read. you have not read much.

again, we can believe what we want.. Peace back to you

 

[Wick Stick]

how do we know they are 7000 Years or older. What evidence do we have?

I think I already said it earlier... archaeologists have an unbroken record of consecutive civilizations in NE Turkey and Armenia. The area around Lake Van and Mount Ararat has been continuously inhabited for a long time. The age of civilization there can be measured by the layers in the archaeological record and number of artifacts recovered.

I did a study of this a few years ago. I don't remember all the names, so I did a little googlin':

* Kingdom of Urartu - Iron Age
* Nairi Confederation - Late Bronze Age
* Hayasa-Azzi - Mid-Late Bronze
* Armani Kingdom - Mid Bronze
* Kura-Araxes - Chalcolithic Era - Early Bronze
* Shulaveri-Shomu - Neolithic - Chalcolithic

Urartu is mentioned in the Bible, though it's usually translated there as Ararat. Anyway, that takes us back to roughly 7000 BC, which is well before every flood date based on Genesis' genealogies.

 

[Wick Stick]

what did God bring to order in the creation narrative, that was chaos before.

The Biblical answer is "waters."

If you compare Genesis 1 to the other creation story in the Bible (Job 38-42), those "waters" are there pictured as two great beasts - Leviathan and Behemoth. Job's version tracks well with the creation stories of the other cultures around that time/place.

It's clear that in most creation stories, they thought of these "waters" as some sort of primordial entities of chaos. They weren't regarded as gods, but as something else. The Greeks called them titans. The most well-known example is the Greek titan Typhon, but the Babylonians had their own versions (Tiamat & Absu) and so did the Amorites (Tehowm & Behemoth).

I actually made a topic about this once, though it didn't get a lot of traction:

God Created the World out of... Monsters?

At the beginning of Genesis 1, God forms the world out of waters that are "without form" and "void." You're probably familiar with this. But are you familiar with the other story of creation in the Bible? Starting in Job 38, we have another accounting of creation in which God tells Job all...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Scott Downey]

The Biblical answer is "waters."

If you compare Genesis 1 to the other creation story in the Bible (Job 38-42), those "waters" are there pictured as two great beasts - Leviathan and Behemoth. Job's version tracks well with the creation stories of the other cultures around that time/place.

It's clear that in most creation stories, they thought of these "waters" as some sort of primordial entities of chaos. They weren't regarded as gods, but as something else. The Greeks called them titans. The most well-known example is the Greek titan Typhon, but the Babylonians had their own versions (Tiamat & Absu) and so did the Amorites (Tehowm & Behemoth).

I actually made a topic about this once, though it didn't get a lot of traction:

God Created the World out of... Monsters?

At the beginning of Genesis 1, God forms the world out of waters that are "without form" and "void." You're probably familiar with this. But are you familiar with the other story of creation in the Bible? Starting in Job 38, we have another accounting of creation in which God tells Job all...

www.christianityboard.com

In my mind, I have related the mythical titans to the real Nephilim giants, which would have been all over the earth at the time of the flood.
They were Satan's attempt to prevent the birth of Christ, who God told him would crush his head.

 

[Wick Stick]

The evening and morning were the XXX day.

Moses gave us a literal time and event of what happened.

This poem theory just makes things worse.

On the 7th day we are told the lord rested.

later we are told to obey the sabbath, because in 6 days the lord created and on the 7th he rested.

This alone shows us that even God wanted us to understand it was 7 literal days

It's not really a "theory" anymore when you can see it demonstrated.

I gave you a book where you can read examples. I can't really make such an extended quotation without violating copyright, so I guess I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Wick Stick]

In my mind, I have related the mythical titans to the real Nephilim giants, which would have been all over the earth at the time of the flood.

Titans are elements of the creation. E.g. Gaia is the earth. Ouranos is the sky. Kronos is time. Oceanus is the ocean.

Titans aren't gods. The difference can be demonstrated like this... Poseidon is the Greek's god over the ocean, while Oceanus IS the ocean. Gods rule and bring order to their domain. Titans are primordial forces of nature - not orderly but chaotic. In Greek myths, giants are the offspring of the two first titans - Gaia and Ouranos.

In the Amorite pantheon, which is much more similar to the Biblical accounts, Rephaim (giants) are deceased ancestors who have been elevated to the level of deities.

 

[Scott Downey]

Titans are elements of the creation. E.g. Gaia is the earth. Ouranos is the sky. Kronos is time. Oceanus is the ocean.

Titans aren't gods. The difference can be demonstrated like this... Poseidon is the Greek's god over the ocean, while Oceanus IS the ocean. Gods rule and bring order to their domain. Titans are primordial forces of nature - not orderly but chaotic. In Greek myths, giants are the offspring of the two first titans - Gaia and Ouranos.

In the Amorite pantheon, which is much more similar to the Biblical accounts, Rephaim (giants) are deceased ancestors who have been elevated to the level of deities.

Titans were born of Uranus as were the Olympians, they were all somewhat related.
Still does not deny the potential link does it.
And Peter also describes the fallen ones as being chained in dungeons in Tartarus.

You were not alive back then to say one way or the other how those myths got started.
Myths can have a basis in reality.
A Nephilim Giant would have seemed godlike back then and their gods were very much violent and of the desires of the flesh, powerful things like human beings. They married, killed, fought wars, had sexual affairs, and an ordered hierarchy of powers, all the lusts of the flesh.

In Greek mythology, the Titans (Ancient Greek: Τιτᾶνες Tītânes; singular: Tītā́n) were the pre-Olympian gods.[1] According to the Theogony of Hesiod, they were the twelve children of the primordial parents Uranus (Sky) and Gaia (Earth). The six male Titans were Oceanus, Coeus, Crius, Hyperion, Iapetus, and Cronus; the six female Titans—called the Titanides (Τιτανίδες) or Titanesses—were Theia, Rhea, Themis, Mnemosyne, Phoebe, and Tethys.

After Cronus mated with his older sister Rhea, she bore the first generation of Olympians: the six siblings Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Hestia, Demeter, and Hera. Certain other descendants of the Titans, such as Prometheus, Atlas, Helios, and Leto, are sometimes also called Titans.

The Titans were the former gods: the generation of gods preceding the Olympians. They were overthrown as part of the Greek succession myth, which tells how Cronus seized power from his father Uranus and ruled the cosmos with his fellow Titans before being in turn defeated and replaced as the ruling pantheon of gods by Zeus and the Olympians in a ten-year war called the Titanomachy ('battle of the Titans'). As a result of this war, the vanquished Titans were banished from the upper world and held imprisoned under guard in Tartarus. Some Titans were apparently allowed to remain free.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is very ingenious of Hilary of Poitiers - but there are two glaring problems with it.

"It was declared by the prophet that not until the fourth generation would anyone from the household of Ahab sit on the throne of the kingdom of Israel”

1) What the prophet actually said to Jehu was, "Your descendants will sit on the throne of Israel to the fourth generation." (II Kings 10:30) Nothing about the household of Ahab returning after four generations (or at all). After the fourth generation, when Jehu's great-grandson was assassinated, Israel was ruled by individuals with no connection to Ahab.
2) The prophecy relates to the kingdom of Israel, not to Judah!

With all due respect to TGC, the prophecy doesn't say what Hilary claims it said - which rather blows his theory out of the water.

Well ahab was not Jehu so your issue is moot. Besides, these minor points do absolutely nothing to give credence to the false hypothesis that the earth is billions of years old and homo sapien sapien is more than 10,000 years old

 

[Ronald Nolette]

again, how can their be any records pre flood still in existence. they would have had to come on the ark.. I know some believe Noah had records from adam, Others believe God told him what to write.

but in either case. Chinese records? 10,000 years?

Impossible (China did not even exist 10,000 years ago)

I agree, but science falsely so called will flood you with appears to be tens of thousands of facts that will say otherwise.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

but it could be said that there was a gap of time between gen 1: 1-2 and this 6 day creation (called the GAP theory)

Yes Asa Grey came up with that theory and biblicists and evolutionists both reject it. It is oncorrect grammatically and according to Jesus! It was conceived because some believers tried to merge the bible with what appeared to be solid science.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree, but science falsely so called will flood you with appears to be tens of thousands of facts that will say otherwise.

facts or theories?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes Asa Grey came up with that theory and biblicists and evolutionists both reject it. It is oncorrect grammatically and according to Jesus! It was conceived because some believers tried to merge the bible with what appeared to be solid science.

I used to believe in this "gap theory"

I just repented of that theory about 15 years ago.. Most of my life believed in that theory

 

[Bob]

The following appeared in a post about young earth vs old earth debate.

Since God finished all of creation in 6 days, that must have included all of the infectious diseases which only affect and are only transmitted by humans (e.g., small pox, measles, some STDs). That would imply Adam or Eve had to have been carrying all of them, with no ill effects, etc., and also that Noah or someone is his family was a carrier for all, again with no ill effects.

Make sense? Is this another “beyond our understanding of God”?


Blessings.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It is astonishing that you think the only reason a person might believe in God is by reading it in the Bible.

Jesus said that's the source of Truth (John 17:17)

The biblical writers were not making stuff up and they were not writing their own thoughts.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 19:10
for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (God's Word is what 2 Peter 1:16-21 is speaking of)

2 Peter 1:21 is referring to that which Jesus (God's Word) has to say to mankind thru the written Word which is the oracles of God which came thru the descendants of Abraham

Romans 3:2
because that unto them were committed the oracles of God

Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13), and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

Those that believe they don't need God's Word or believe there's no need to judge what they are getting in the Spirit to see if it agrees with God's Word are sadly deceived by the devil.

The devil's MO can be found in how he deceived Adam and Eve in to not believing God's Word.

Scientists have come to believe after seeing all of the evidence for intelligent design. Etc., etc.

Yeah and most of them are claiming it's aliens providing the "intelligent design" instead of acknowledging Jesus Christ

It is time to put this discussion to rest.

Only the devil and his followers are wanting to convince people that God's Word is meaningless and irrelevant

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

That would imply Adam or Eve had to have been carrying all of them, with no ill effects, etc., and also that Noah or someone is his family was a carrier for all, again with no ill effects.

Only for those living in fairy tale land claiming God is responsible for evil in this world

 

[Ronald Nolette]

facts or theories?

well they call them theories but proclaim them as facts.