Might as well put you on ignore together with then other trolls on this forum.
How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!!!
- Thread starter GISMYS_7
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Might as well put you on ignore together with then other trolls on this forum.
So what is your answer to my question regarding the baptismal certificate?
In the Greek text, in John 3:3, it says “gennethe anothen”, which in English is “be born from above”, not really “born again”.
<<<born again = born of water and Spirit = baptism>>>
In the Greek text, in John 3:5, it says “gennethe ex hydatos kai pneumatos” which in English is “be born of water and spirit”.
And I can see that you make of that as equal to “born again” and equal to baptism. How have you arrived to that, seeing that Jesus even never mentioned about baptism to Nicodemus?
Tong
R4793
Of course I DO NOT BELIEVE in "your" declaration of a FALSE Doctrine.
Scripture IS Clear, "IF" a person IS SAVED; by, through, of Christ the Lord Jesus, That person IS forever WITH the Lord God.
OSAS, is Expressly in regard to a person WHO; IS SAVED; by, through, of Christ the Lord Jesus.
So what IS YOUR DOCTRINE concerning JESUS' offering of SALVATION?
IS it forced on you?
Can you receive it without YOUR own decision TO receive it?
Does sprinkling your head with WATER save your soul?
Does emerging your body in WATER save your soul?
Does a cleric speaking TO you save your soul?
In your own words, plainly...What is YOUR doctrine?
I was pointing out that you seem to not see there how the 3000 were saved. Perhaps that is the case when one forgets that salvation is the work of God, not man’s. For what you seem to clearly see are what the 3000 have done, but not what God had done on those 3000 individuals.
It reminds me of what Jesus said in John 3:3, in answer to what Nicodemus said to Jesus in John 3:2.
I am not here to play games with you nor anyone.
Tong
R4794
Again, I am not playing games with you.
Most, if not all, who read “belief + baptism = salvation” understand as I do, that baptism is necessary in your equation of salvation. That without it, even while one believes, he will not be saved. It is as though his end will be the same as that Mark in Mk.16:16 says will happen to one who does not believe.
And so, I said, you confuse me as to what you really believe or at least mean by your equation.
Whether you say that is the normal formula or not, it remains to be an equation you made. And on the left side of the equation, taking 1 of the addends out, either belief or baptism, makes the equation collapse.
Tong
R4795
Yes Jesus said that. But that is only part of the whole of what Jesus said in Mark 16:16. I wonder why you always take a part of the whole sentence of Jesus when it comes to Mk.16:16. Do you not like the whole of what He said? Hmm…makes me wonder, and perhaps others too.
Tong
R4796
And again, I am not playing games with you.
<<<I never said such a thing>>>
Mungo: “He will be saved IF he gets baptised.”
What do you mean by that, if not that the believer will not be saved unless he gets baptized?
Tong
R4797
And the 4th time, I am not playing games with you.
Is that all you have to say in response to all my post? If so, just say so.
Tong
R4798
And here it is again. I am not playing games with you.
Your belief in infant baptism is part and partial of what you believe baptism to be. It is very relevant to this discussion of salvation where you have this equation “belief + baptism = salvation”.
Of course, you can end a discussion any time you want. Most do when the going gets tough.
Tong
R4799
They can SAY it but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. This is why church leaders across all traditions need to be on their guard.
Philip was SURE of the eunuch's commitment so he baptised him. Just as my church leaders were sure and baptised me.
I'm not intentionally Catholic bashing Mungo but trying to show you that there is another way of looking at the scriptures you point to to justify your beliefs. Jesus is the truth so one way or another if we follow him we will come to the truth of this and other matters. His Holy Spirit will guide us when we rely on him and not on the teachings of men. I'll see you around - God bless.
I wasn't meaning you Pearl, or GISMYS.
I apologise if it looked that way.
I was just letting you two know I wasn't going to take part in this thread any more.
Well, we can say that with regards Philip, for scriptures tells us who Philip is.
However, can we say that with confidence with regards church leaders?
Besides, even with Philip, we know that nobody knows the heart of another, but God.
The passage in Acts 8:36-38 shows us that any one who claims and profess to believe in his heart, and confess “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God” may be baptized.
Tong
R4801
So I take it that you don't trust church leaders. I that form experience? If we can't trust them then the Church is a really bad place.
Good move on your Part! “ If you can’t stand the HEAT ( Of Truth) Get out of the Kitchen.....”
Of course, you can end a discussion any time you want. Most do when the going gets tough.
“ The Going gets Tough” quickly when “ debaters” Of The Word violate Biblical advice.....” Prove yourself to be a Good Student Of The Word” , knowing how to “ Rightly Divide” so you don’t have to “ Stand Ashamed”.....
Of course, there are many that lack the good sense to be ashamed when they should be....
“ The Going gets Tough” quickly when “ debaters” Of The Word violate Biblical advice.....” Prove yourself to be a Good Student Of The Word” , knowing how to “ Rightly Divide” so you don’t have to “ Stand Ashamed”.....
Of course, there are many that lack the good sense to be ashamed when they should be....
No Pearl, that is not the issue. And that is not my point. It is not about church leaders, but about what we learn in scriptures regarding who may be baptized.
The point is, as shown in passages like Acts 8:36-38, that any one who claims and profess to believe in his heart, and confess “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God” and is wanting to be baptized, may be baptized.
Tong
R4802
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