How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!!!

[Mungo]

<<<It is because you could easily argue that personal belief is necessary for salvation and that infants cannot personally believe.>>>

And so? Do you not believe and teach what RCC teaches about salvation and baptism?

<<<I didn't say that baptism was necessary for salvation.>>>

That’s good then. At least you deny that baptism was necessary for salvation.

So what do you mean by your post “belief + baptism = salvation”, if you are not saying that baptism is necessary for salvation?

Tong
R4781

Stop trying to twist what I said. What I have clearly said is:
Baptism is the normal way that Jesus gave us to be saved under the New Covenant.
We are not normally saved by faith alone and Scripture doesn't say we are.
I say normal and normally because God can always make exceptions if he chooses to. But it is God who chooses how we are saved not us.

Therefore baptism cannot be (strictly) necessary if God can make exceptions. But we cannot make exceptions.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Not a single piece of Scripture.
We are saved in Baptism. That is what Scripture says.
And Jesus said He who believes and is baptized will be saved.(MK 16:16)
Peter wrote: ...eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (1Pet 3:20:21)
Why don't you believe what Scripture says?

You do not understand what scripture teaches!!! If it were baptism that saves then there's no need for belief in Jesus!!

 

[Pearl]

<<<The lovely vicar wasn't able to do it so I joined a church that would. But they made very sure that I really was born again/saved before they would do it. >>>

Just curious. How was that?

Tong
R4782

How was what? The making sure?

If it's the making sure there was what they called a commitment group we all had to attend before being allowed to join - become members of - the church. They don't do it now though. Anybody could come to the meetings but only people they felt sure were actually born again could become a member and be baptised if they hadn't been already.

 

[farouk]

I absolutely wasn't. And my vicar was very sympathetic to my request and only tradition prevented him from baptizing me. One has to choose spiritual re-birth and infants can't make that choice. I know my re-birthday.

This really concerns me that Catholics think they are born again because they received so-called baptism as infants. They are SO deceived and because they believe they are already born again they accept it and do nothing further and so are lost.

They need to be taught that they need a relationship with Jesus in order to be born again. They need to be taught that unless they accept Jesus on personal level by their own choice and not choices made by another person they are not saved or born again. Catholicism is damaging to spiritual health and should carry a warning telling people they are being deceived. But they seem to think it's okay to just carry on regardless. Happily though some do see the light and make the breakthrough and some even leave the Catholic Church for truth.

I pray that their eyes might be open so that they can become aware of the lies they are being taught by those they respect.

No offence to anybody personally is intended by my comments.

@Pearl Simply following the Scriptural way is rewarding, right?

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl Simply following the Scriptural way is rewarding, right?

But everybody believes they ARE following the scriptural way - even when they aren't.

 

[farouk]

But everybody believes they ARE following the scriptural way - even when they aren't.

@Pearl This is why Scriptural fellowship with others is so precious. Acts 2.41-42.

 

[Mungo]

How was what? The making sure?

If it's the making sure there was what they called a commitment group we all had to attend before being allowed to join - become members of - the church. They don't do it now though. Anybody could come to the meetings but only people they felt sure were actually born again could become a member and be baptised if they hadn't been already.

It depended on whether people felt they were born again. Yikes!

 

[Mungo]

You do not understand what scripture teaches!!! If it were baptism that saves then there's no need for belief in Jesus!!

I do understand GIMSYS.
Scripture says Belief + Baptism.
If Scripture says Belief + Baptism then why would anyone think there is no need for belief??

 

[Pearl]

It depended on whether people felt they were born again. Yikes!

Only people our leaders KNEW were born again. And my testimony is still my testimony and still stand as truth. So you are saying that your priests will baptise anybody before making certain that they are already saved?

 

[Mungo]

Only people our leaders KNEW were born again.

How did they "know" that people were born again? Look into a crystal ball? Examine the entrails of a slaughtered goat?

And my testimony is still my testimony and still stand as truth.

I prefer Scripture to know such truth.

So you are saying that your priests will baptise anybody before making certain that they are already saved?

They don't baptise just anybody. If they aren't a Christian they needs some instruction.
People they baptise aren't born again that is why they baptise them. We are Born again in baptism

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, [or again] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3).... “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
You see - born again = born of water and Spirit = baptism

 

[Pearl]

How did they "know" that people were born again? Look into a crystal ball? Examine the entrails of a slaughtered goat?

@Mungo - How do you yourself know if somebody is born again? Not including being 'baptised' as infants. Don't you think church leaders, elders, pastors, vicars would be able to tell?

 

[farouk]

How do you know if somebody is born again? Not including being 'baptised' as infants.

@Pearl

The Lord Jesus said in Matthew 7.16-20: "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Like you said, it's not whether someone has been sprinkled...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

In the RCC? I was not aware of that.

Tong
R4773

Yep....it’s a fact.....a sad fact, but very revealing....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

There were already saved when they were baptized, very clearly. They didn't become baptized in order to believe; they were baptized because they believed. It's so clear.

It’s only “ clear” if you have” eyes to see”.....

 

[Mungo]

@Mungo - How do you yourself know if somebody is born again? Not including being 'baptised' as infants. Don't you think church leaders, elders, pastors, vicars would be able to tell?

How would know that someone is born again?
From their baptism certificate.

Do you expect something visible - like a rosary hanging round their neck?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I don't think baptising under the Niagara falls is practical.
Baptism (in water) is where we are baptised into the body of Christ.

Have you ever heard of somebody Exaggerating to make a point? You just witnessed it....

 

[farouk]

It’s only “ clear” if you have” eyes to see”.....

@Blood Bought 1953 That too....

 

[Mungo]

Yep....it’s a fact.....a sad fact, but very revealing....

Revealing of what?

 

[TEXBOW]

Pray for understanding!! Baptism saves NO ONE!!! We all know people that have been baptized just to please their mother, wife, pastor, friend but have not believed and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior but satan has them thinking they are saved because they were baptized but they are on the fast track to hell!!!THINK!

You can spend a month trying to explain this to some and they will never move away from their position. Many do not understand that things changed after the cross.

 

[Mungo]

You can spend a month trying to explain this to some and they will never move away from their position. Many do not understand that things changed after the cross.

Indeed, a lot changed after the cross.