How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!!!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,444
4,728
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So you DO find it hard to believe and understand this scripture???
GOD SAYS=
God's Word says=====That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved...
According to the 5 step 'church of Christ' plan of salvation - 1. Hear 2. Believe 3. Repent 4. Confess 5. Be baptized one would still remain lost prior to water baptism, which 'follows' confession in this 5 step check list, so confession could not be 'unto salvation' (Romans 10:10) according to this erroneous 5 step plan of salvation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gospel Believer

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,407
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes!! little men want to try to add to God's Word and fall into satan's trap. Think!!

Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=
God's Word says=====That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved...
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
22,826
39,124
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Amen, Halleluiah, Thank you Jesus. You touched me, saved me, filled me with the Holy Spirit.. I'm walking, and shopping today with my Victory in Jesus shirt on.
Victory in JESUS . LET THE KING be praised .
There was a man who was told to remove his shirt or he had to leave a huge mall .
His shirt said JESUS saves . on the back it had CO EXIST with a huge X through it and it said and ONLY JESUS SAVES .
THAT MAN WAS RIGHT . this co exist all inclusive lie is a lie from the dragon . YET
the security men came over and went right after that man . RELIGOUS FREEDOM ACT
applies ONLY to the all inclusive , NOT TO TRUE LAMBS . OH well , JESUS IS with the lambs no matter what we suffer .
Just a reminder , POPE FRANCIS IS FALSE as IS this huge all inclusive co exist dung pile getting preached . I DO HOPE YOU KNOW THAT
 

Ernest T. Bass

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,845
616
113
out in the woods
I agree.
We take the  WHOLE of the word or we really end up with none.

Jesus must be preached for this is the salvation message we are commissioned with.

It is NOT us alone however for the Spirit must go B4 to convict of the wretched state of a soul. He also prepares the person to receive the word as well as the one giving it, so both are doers of the word.
I agree with you the whole of the word has to be studied and taken into consideration but I do not agree with you about what you said with the Holy Spirit having to convict men BEFORE man is able to receive the word of God. That idea is purely Calvinistic and puts fault and culpability upon God for those that are faithless and lost.

The Holy Spirit does convict people but He does it through His word not in some miraculous way apart from His word. For example, those in Acts 2 heard Peter preach the gospel, understood it, believed and obeyed that word. The word pricked them in their heart. There is nothing in the context that the Holy Spirit had to first prepare their heart before they could receive that word. Paul wrote in Ephesians 3:3-4 "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)". All one needs to do is read the Spirit's written word and they can understand it...Paul says NOTHING about the Holy Spirit first having to act in some miraculous way upon a person before they are able to recieve the word.

And to tie in with this is the Calvinistic false idea of total depravity. Those Jews in Acts 2 were not totally depraved, they were worshippers and believers in God already long before Peter preached his gospel sermon to them. In every single conversion in Acts people were converted and saved by the word being spoken to them. Why? For the gospel is the power of God unto salvation Rom 1:16. Not in any case were the people spoken to totally depraved and need the Holy Spirit to first act upon them before they were able to receive the word of the gospel.

I'm not sure if I have ever encountered a word that could stand alone other than amen.
( Cherry picking.)
Even the shortest verse ; Jesus wept, had a before & an after.

I do not think the OP is doing that; cherry picking, however I do not know folks here and only God sees the intent of the heart.

Immature believers do this and it is bc they have NOT been weaned from the milk. I know some who have been " saved" 40 or more yrs but are still drinking milk.

It takes application and balance by studying and rightly dividing under the Spirit to grow & mature..........many never do the above studying.

I'm trying really hard not to have an agenda other than Jesus Christ & him crucified and my old man buried then resurrected with him.

I have no denominal affiliate, have not had in more than 30 something yrs but this isn't to say I do not have some Protestant thoughts that I have not surrendered to God's word and the TRUTH of it.
Go back and look and you can see the OP has been posting the same thing over and over again to me and not dealing with the fact that ALL salvific verses have to be examined. He continues to post Rom 10:9-10 and referring to a "sinner's prayer". Again, no one in the conversions of Acts were told to be saved by saying a sinner's prayer...not one single person. Secondly, Rom 10:9-10 does not give all there is to know about salvation. Paul does not mention repentance or baptism in Rom 10:9-10 but that does not eliminate either one for Paul required repentance and baptism in other verses (Acts 26:20; Rom 2:3-5; Rom 6:3-6; Col 2:11-12; etc).

Context matters, so what is the context about in Rom 10? Why did Paul not specifically include repentance and baptism in Rom 10:9-10 when Paul required those two things elsewhere? Paul in Romans 10 is not teaching about how a lost person become saves but is lamenting over the fact his brethren in the flesh, the Jews, were lost and why they were lost. Those Jews thought that because they were direct physical descendants of Abraham that meant automatic salvation for them, God must choose them to be in the kingdom simply because of their physical birth. Paul in Rom 10 is showing those Jews that under the NT of Christ one's physical heritage plays no role in salvation but obedience to God's instructions is what saves. Those Jews were lost for they would not submit, would not obey the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3. Paul is showing it takes obedience to the gospel (Rom 10:16) to be saved where "whosoever" (Jew or Gentile) can be saved not just Jews based on their physical lineage to Abraham. To be saved one must be willing to submit to God's righteousness per Rom 10:3 yet Rom 10 does not contain all the details necessary to being saved. One must search the whole of the NT to find all that is necessary to be saved. Paul in Rom 10 does not specifically mention repentance, baptism, grace, etc but that does not mean they have no role in being saved.

It is very rare to find just one single verse that exhausts all there is to know about a particular subject. There is not one verse in the NT that exhaust all there is to know about salvation...there are dozens upon dozens of verses and ALL must be examined. Again as I posted before, the faith onlyist cannot just cite verses that mention believing and claim belief alone saves all the while PURPOSFULLY ignoring verses that require repentance, confession and baptism. Such is not logical, it's bad interpretation and misleading.

Lastly,
1) note that Rom 10:9,13 says nothing about simply verbalizing a confession or sinner's prayer saving a person. Nowhere does it say just 'accept Jesus into your heart' or simply trust in Jesus and nothing more saves a person. Jesus already required DOING in order to be saved, Matt 7:21 those who enter the kingdom are the ones who DO the will of the Father. Jesus is Lord of those who DO what He says (Lk 6:46). One must WORK for the spiritual food that endures unto eternal life (Jn 6:27). The wise man is the one who hears Jesus sayings and DOETH them while the foolish man hears and DOETH NOT (Mt 7:24,26).

2) note the phrase "call on the name of the Lord". That phrase means when one DOES what Christ says to do, then one is calling on the name of the Lord. In Rom 10, those who believe and repent are calling upon the name of the Lord. In Acts 2:21 Peter used the exact same quote from Joel as Paul, and those Jews who repented and were baptized per v38 were the ones who called upon the name of the Lord:

Call upon the name of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved
believe, repent, confess, baptized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved

In Acts 9:14,21 it was those in Jerusalem who had called on the Lord's name, not by verbalizing a sinner's prayer or a confession, but who had repented and were baptized per Acts 2:38. In Acts 22:16 Paul himself 'called on the name of the Lord" when he obediently submitted to being baptized.

Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" No one can call Jesus their "Lord" when they do not do as He says.

So there are those on this forum with the faith only agenda who claim there is nothing for man to do to be saved but believe only, just have a mental assent of the mind, simply acknowledge certain facts about Christ. The irony of having one say a sinner's prayer in order to be saved fails the faith onlyist's own arguments for:
1) having to say a sinner's prayer is a work, it is something DONE.
2) it makes salvation conditional upon what man DOES
3) yet they do not claim doing this work in saying a sinners' prayer is a work of merit done to earn salvation while falsely claiming obedience to God in submitting to water baptism is a work of merit. There is no consistency in their claims.

The idea of faith onlyism has no basis in the NT, it is not couched in logic therefore creates a host of contradictions when it is attempted to be forced into the Bible.


(Sorry for the long post, but it happens sometimes when I have time on my hands)
 
Last edited:

Ernest T. Bass

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,845
616
113
out in the woods
Yes!! little men want to try to add to God's Word and fall into satan's trap. Think!!

Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=
God's Word says=====That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved...
What about Luke 13:3? Romans 2:3-5? Mark 16:16? Acts 2:21 cf Acts 2:38?
 

GRACE ambassador

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2021
2,371
1,532
113
71
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When any topic of the Bible is being studied, such as salvbation, one must examine ALL verses that deal with salvbation, not just one or two verses
Double Typo Typo Again? :cry: Well, since you and I do agree, 'Examine ALL' the verses that
deal with God's Salvation, here ya go; Why do you Overlook / Disobey These?:

1) Mat 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​

2) Mat_19:21 (+ Mrk 20:21)

"Jesus Said unto him, IF thou wilt be perfect, go and​
SELL that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt​
have treasure in heaven: and come and follow Me."​

Being born again requires an obedient doing on the part of man in doing as God says
@Ernest T. Bass, IF you have NOT obeyed this yet, how is it that you claim you are
perfect and have God's Salvation, "As God Says"?

or, as man says, only need to "believe, repent, confess, baptized" without obeying the
rest, "picking and choosing" what one will obey, And NOT obey? What Excuse is there
for this kind of confusing theology?

3a) The early church DID NOT have this problem, and was perfect, OBEYING Christ
perfectly to the letter! -
Acts 2:44-45:

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;​
And SOLD their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men,​
as every man had need. " (+ Acts 4:34-37)​
Correct? Don't you and others ALWAYS remind us, ad nauseum:

"faith WITHOUT works is DEAD"?​

3b) Do disobeyers/Deceivers who "believed/repented/confessed/baptized" have Salvation?

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,​
And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a​
certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath​
Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the​
price of the land?​
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in​
thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou​
hast not lied unto men, but unto God.​
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and​
great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men​
arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.​
And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing​
what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye​
sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said​
unto her,​
How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold,​
the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry​
thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost:
and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth,​
buried her by her husband." (Acts 5:1-10)​

Under God's Program of prophecy/covenants/"works" of the LAW For Israel

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Program Of Mystery/GRACE, For The Body Of Christ, With
God's ETERNAL Salvation
Now:

"BY GRACE Through faith are ye SAVED!..."
(Eph 2:8-9; 1Co 15:3-4; Rom 3-5)​

===============================

@Ernest T. Bass, so which is it? Salvation by "works"/Law? OR:

"Rightly Divided From: GRACE/No "works"?​

You say "context Matters"? Or do prefer to stay with the 2000 year old homogenization
of the two, Causing Massive Confusion?:

1Co 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of Peace, as in
all churches of the saints.

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In ALL His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
!

Study to Be APPROVED Open Bible.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Gospel Believer

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,407
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree with you the whole of the word has to be studied and taken into consideration but I do not agree with you about what you said with the Holy Spirit having to convict men BEFORE man is able to receive the word of God. That idea is purely Calvinistic and puts fault and culpability upon God for those that are faithless and lost.

The Holy Spirit does convict people but He does it through His word not in some miraculous way apart from His word. For example, those in Acts 2 heard Peter preach the gospel, understood it, believed and obeyed that word. The word pricked them in their heart. There is nothing in the context that the Holy Spirit had to first prepare their heart before they could receive that word. Paul wrote in Ephesians 3:3-4 "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)". All one needs to do is read the Spirit's written word and they can understand it...Paul says NOTHING about the Holy Spirit first having to act in some miraculous way upon a person before they are able to recieve the word.

And to tie in with this is the Calvinistic false idea of total depravity. Those Jews in Acts 2 were not totally depraved, they were worshippers and believers in God already long before Peter preached his gospel sermon to them. In every single conversion in Acts people were converted and saved by the word being spoken to them. Why? For the gospel is the power of God unto salvation Rom 1:16. Not in any case were the people spoken to totally depraved and need the Holy Spirit to first act upon them before they were able to receive the word of the gospel.


Go back and look and you can see the OP has been posting the same thing over and over again to me and not dealing with the fact that ALL salvific verses have to be examined. He continues to post Rom 10:9-10 and referring to a "sinner's prayer". Again, no one in the conversions of Acts were told to be saved by saying a sinner's prayer...not one single person. Secondly, Rom 10:9-10 does not give all there is to know about salvation. Paul does not mention repentance or baptism in Rom 10:9-10 but that does not eliminate either one for Paul required repentance and baptism in other verses (Acts 26:20; Rom 2:3-5; Rom 6:3-6; Col 2:11-12; etc).

Context matters, so what is the context about in Rom 10? Why did Paul not specifically include repentance and baptism in Rom 10:9-10 when Paul required those two things elsewhere? Paul in Romans 10 is not teaching about how a lost person become saves but is lamenting over the fact his brethren in the flesh, the Jews, were lost and why they were lost. Those Jews thought that because they were direct physical descendants of Abraham that meant automatic salvation for them, God must choose them to be in the kingdom simply because of their physical birth. Paul in Rom 10 is showing those Jews that under the NT of Christ one's physical heritage plays no role in salvation but obedience to God's instructions is what saves. Those Jews were lost for they would not submit, would not obey the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3. Paul is showing it takes obedience to the gospel (Rom 10:16) to be saved where "whosoever" (Jew or Gentile) can be saved not just Jews based on their physical lineage to Abraham. To be saved one must be willing to submit to God's righteousness per Rom 10:3 yet Rom 10 does not contain all the details necessary to being saved. One must search the whole of the NT to find all that is necessary to be saved. Paul in Rom 10 does not specifically mention repentance, baptism, grace, etc but that does not mean they have no role in being saved.

It is very rare to find just one single verse that exhausts all there is to know about a particular subject. There is not one verse in the NT that exhaust all there is to know about salvation...there are dozens upon dozens of verses and ALL must be examined. Again as I posted before, the faith onlyist cannot just cite verses that mention believing and claim belief alone saves all the while PURPOSFULLY ignoring verses that require repentance, confession and baptism. Such is not logical, it's bad interpretation and misleading.

Lastly,
1) note that Rom 10:9,13 says nothing about simply verbalizing a confession or sinner's prayer saving a person. Nowhere does it say just 'accept Jesus into your heart' or simply trust in Jesus and nothing more saves a person. Jesus already required DOING in order to be saved, Matt 7:21 those who enter the kingdom are the ones who DO the will of the Father. Jesus is Lord of those who DO what He says (Lk 6:46). One must WORK for the spiritual food that endures unto eternal life (Jn 6:27). The wise man is the one who hears Jesus sayings and DOETH them while the foolish man hears and DOETH NOT (Mt 7:24,26).

2) note the phrase "call on the name of the Lord". That phrase means when one DOES what Christ says to do, then one is calling on the name of the Lord. In Rom 10, those who believe and repent are calling upon the name of the Lord. In Acts 2:21 Peter used the exact same quote from Joel as Paul, and those Jews who repented and were baptized per v38 were the ones who called upon the name of the Lord:

Call upon the name of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved
believe, repent, confess, baptized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved

In Acts 9:14,21 it was those in Jerusalem who had called on the Lord's name, not by verbalizing a sinner's prayer or a confession, but who had repented and were baptized per Acts 2:38. In Acts 22:16 Paul himself 'called on the name of the Lord" when he obediently submitted to being baptized.

Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" No one can call Jesus their "Lord" when they do not do as He says.

So there are those on this forum with the faith only agenda who claim there is nothing for man to do to be saved but believe only, just have a mental assent of the mind, simply acknowledge certain facts about Christ. The irony of having one say a sinner's prayer in order to be saved fails the faith onlyist's own arguments for:
1) having to say a sinner's prayer is a work, it is something DONE.
2) it makes salvation conditional upon what man DOES
3) yet they do not claim doing this work in saying a sinners' prayer is a work of merit done to earn salvation while falsely claiming obedience to God in submitting to water baptism is a work of merit. There is no consistency in their claims.

The idea of faith onlyism has no basis in the NT, it is not couched in logic therefore creates a host of contradictions when it is attempted to be forced into the Bible.


(Sorry for the long post, but it happens sometimes when I have time on my hands)
Man's idea=Context matters, so what is the context about in Rom 10? Why did Paul not specifically include repentance and baptism in Rom 10:9-10 when Paul required those two things elsewhere? =Man's idea and opinion!!
Read slowly and believe===
Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=
God's Word says=====That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved...
 

Ernest T. Bass

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,845
616
113
out in the woods
Double Typo Typo Again? :cry: Well, since you and I do agree, 'Examine ALL' the verses that
deal with God's Salvation, here ya go; Why do you Overlook / Disobey These?:
You like the first typo so much, I did it again.
1) Mat 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​

2) Mat_19:21 (+ Mrk 20:21)

"Jesus Said unto him, IF thou wilt be perfect, go and​
SELL that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt​
have treasure in heaven: and come and follow Me."​


@Ernest T. Bass, IF you have NOT obeyed this yet, how is it that you claim you are
perfect and have God's Salvation, "As God Says"?

or, as man says, only need to "believe, repent, confess, baptized" without obeying the
rest, "picking and choosing" what one will obey, And NOT obey? What Excuse is there
for this kind of confusing theology?

3a) The early church DID NOT have this problem, and was perfect, OBEYING Christ
perfectly to the letter! -
Acts 2:44-45:

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;​
And SOLD their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men,​
as every man had need. " (+ Acts 4:34-37)​
Correct? Don't you and others ALWAYS remind us, ad nauseum:

"faith WITHOUT works is DEAD"?​

3b) Do disobeyers/Deceivers who "believed/repented/confessed/baptized" have Salvation?

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,​
And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a​
certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath​
Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the​
price of the land?​
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in​
thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou​
hast not lied unto men, but unto God.​
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and​
great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men​
arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.​
And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing​
what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye​
sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said​
unto her,​
How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold,​
the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry​
thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost:
and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth,​
buried her by her husband." (Acts 5:1-10)​

Under God's Program of prophecy/covenants/"works" of the LAW For Israel

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Program Of Mystery/GRACE, For The Body Of Christ, With
God's ETERNAL Salvation
Now:

"BY GRACE Through faith are ye SAVED!..."
(Eph 2:8-9; 1Co 15:3-4; Rom 3-5)​

===============================

@Ernest T. Bass, so which is it? Salvation by "works"/Law? OR:

"Rightly Divided From: GRACE/No "works"?​

You say "context Matters"? Or do prefer to stay with the 2000 year old homogenization
of the two, Causing Massive Confusion?:

1Co 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of Peace, as in
all churches of the saints.

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In ALL His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
!
Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


God does not require perfect, sinless obedience from man to justify man, if He did then no man could be saved.

Man cannot in and of himself be perfect, yet no one can enter heaven with any sin.....so how does man become sinless?
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Phl 4:13

It is through Christ that man can be perfect before God and that takes obedience on the part of man to submit to water baptism. When one is baptized he is baptized into Christ, he puts on Christ (Gal 3:27) and being clothed in Christ's perfect righteousness then he is seen by God through Christ as perfect. As long as he faithfully remains in Christ, Christ's blood continues to cleanse away all sins leaving one sinless before God (1 Jn 1:7). And being in Christ does not take perfect, sinless obedience on the part of man, just a simple faithful obedience.

Those Jews in Acts 2 who became Christians did not go forth from that time and never sin the rest of their lives....they did not lead perfectly sinless lives. But because they obeyed Peter's command to be baptized, then they put on Christ's perfect righteousness and would have all their sins continually cleansed away by the blood of Christ leaving them before God sinless THROUGH CHRIST.
 

Ernest T. Bass

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,845
616
113
out in the woods
Man's idea=Context matters, so what is the context about in Rom 10? Why did Paul not specifically include repentance and baptism in Rom 10:9-10 when Paul required those two things elsewhere? =Man's idea and opinion!!
Read slowly and believe===
Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=
God's Word says=====That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved...
This is the samething you posted to me last time. Nothing has change since then.
 

Gospel Believer

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2019
593
267
63
71
Columbus Ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree with you the whole of the word has to be studied and taken into consideration but I do not agree with you about what you said with the Holy Spirit having to convict men BEFORE man is able to receive the word of God. That idea is purely Calvinistic and puts fault and culpability upon God for those that are faithless and lost.

The Holy Spirit does convict people but He does it through His word not in some miraculous way apart from His word. For example, those in Acts 2 heard Peter preach the gospel, understood it, believed and obeyed that word. The word pricked them in their heart. There is nothing in the context that the Holy Spirit had to first prepare their heart before they could receive that word. Paul wrote in Ephesians 3:3-4 "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)". All one needs to do is read the Spirit's written word and they can understand it...Paul says NOTHING about the Holy Spirit first having to act in some miraculous way upon a person before they are able to recieve the word.

And to tie in with this is the Calvinistic false idea of total depravity. Those Jews in Acts 2 were not totally depraved, they were worshippers and believers in God already long before Peter preached his gospel sermon to them. In every single conversion in Acts people were converted and saved by the word being spoken to them. Why? For the gospel is the power of God unto salvation Rom 1:16. Not in any case were the people spoken to totally depraved and need the Holy Spirit to first act upon them before they were able to receive the word of the gospel.


Go back and look and you can see the OP has been posting the same thing over and over again to me and not dealing with the fact that ALL salvific verses have to be examined. He continues to post Rom 10:9-10 and referring to a "sinner's prayer". Again, no one in the conversions of Acts were told to be saved by saying a sinner's prayer...not one single person. Secondly, Rom 10:9-10 does not give all there is to know about salvation. Paul does not mention repentance or baptism in Rom 10:9-10 but that does not eliminate either one for Paul required repentance and baptism in other verses (Acts 26:20; Rom 2:3-5; Rom 6:3-6; Col 2:11-12; etc).

Context matters, so what is the context about in Rom 10? Why did Paul not specifically include repentance and baptism in Rom 10:9-10 when Paul required those two things elsewhere? Paul in Romans 10 is not teaching about how a lost person become saves but is lamenting over the fact his brethren in the flesh, the Jews, were lost and why they were lost. Those Jews thought that because they were direct physical descendants of Abraham that meant automatic salvation for them, God must choose them to be in the kingdom simply because of their physical birth. Paul in Rom 10 is showing those Jews that under the NT of Christ one's physical heritage plays no role in salvation but obedience to God's instructions is what saves. Those Jews were lost for they would not submit, would not obey the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3. Paul is showing it takes obedience to the gospel (Rom 10:16) to be saved where "whosoever" (Jew or Gentile) can be saved not just Jews based on their physical lineage to Abraham. To be saved one must be willing to submit to God's righteousness per Rom 10:3 yet Rom 10 does not contain all the details necessary to being saved. One must search the whole of the NT to find all that is necessary to be saved. Paul in Rom 10 does not specifically mention repentance, baptism, grace, etc but that does not mean they have no role in being saved.

It is very rare to find just one single verse that exhausts all there is to know about a particular subject. There is not one verse in the NT that exhaust all there is to know about salvation...there are dozens upon dozens of verses and ALL must be examined. Again as I posted before, the faith onlyist cannot just cite verses that mention believing and claim belief alone saves all the while PURPOSFULLY ignoring verses that require repentance, confession and baptism. Such is not logical, it's bad interpretation and misleading.

Lastly,
1) note that Rom 10:9,13 says nothing about simply verbalizing a confession or sinner's prayer saving a person. Nowhere does it say just 'accept Jesus into your heart' or simply trust in Jesus and nothing more saves a person. Jesus already required DOING in order to be saved, Matt 7:21 those who enter the kingdom are the ones who DO the will of the Father. Jesus is Lord of those who DO what He says (Lk 6:46). One must WORK for the spiritual food that endures unto eternal life (Jn 6:27). The wise man is the one who hears Jesus sayings and DOETH them while the foolish man hears and DOETH NOT (Mt 7:24,26).

2) note the phrase "call on the name of the Lord". That phrase means when one DOES what Christ says to do, then one is calling on the name of the Lord. In Rom 10, those who believe and repent are calling upon the name of the Lord. In Acts 2:21 Peter used the exact same quote from Joel as Paul, and those Jews who repented and were baptized per v38 were the ones who called upon the name of the Lord:

Call upon the name of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved
believe, repent, confess, baptized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved

In Acts 9:14,21 it was those in Jerusalem who had called on the Lord's name, not by verbalizing a sinner's prayer or a confession, but who had repented and were baptized per Acts 2:38. In Acts 22:16 Paul himself 'called on the name of the Lord" when he obediently submitted to being baptized.

Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" No one can call Jesus their "Lord" when they do not do as He says.

So there are those on this forum with the faith only agenda who claim there is nothing for man to do to be saved but believe only, just have a mental assent of the mind, simply acknowledge certain facts about Christ. The irony of having one say a sinner's prayer in order to be saved fails the faith onlyist's own arguments for:
1) having to say a sinner's prayer is a work, it is something DONE.
2) it makes salvation conditional upon what man DOES
3) yet they do not claim doing this work in saying a sinners' prayer is a work of merit done to earn salvation while falsely claiming obedience to God in submitting to water baptism is a work of merit. There is no consistency in their claims.

The idea of faith onlyism has no basis in the NT, it is not couched in logic therefore creates a host of contradictions when it is attempted to be forced into the Bible.


(Sorry for the long post, but it happens sometimes when I have time on my hands)


Learn from the example of “ Lydia, the seller of purple” in Acts..... it was said of her that God “ opened her heart” to receiving the Gospel......why would it be any different for anybody else?

“ Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw them” .....the Holy Spirit “ draws” with the Conviction Of Sin.....one must see that they are a Lost Sinner That MUST have a Savior or why go “looking” for one, much less making the decision to put your Trust in one for your Salvation ?
Like many preachers say, “ Ya gotta get ‘ em Lost Before you can get them Saved !”
Even the Phillipian Jailer who asked, “ What must I do to be Saved?” Had to have the Conviction Of sin or he would have never asked that question....
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,444
4,728
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To be Saved , one has to do Gods Will.....and what is that “ Will?” Jesus said that the Will Of The Father was to BELIEVE in the One that He sent”...... I do that.....that is why I am Saved...
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gospel Believer

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,444
4,728
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Learn from the example of “ Lydia, the seller of purple” in Acts..... it was said of her that God “ opened her heart” to receiving the Gospel......why would it be any different for anybody else?

“ Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw them” .....the Holy Spirit “ draws” with the Conviction Of Sin.....one must see that they are a Lost Sinner That MUST have a Savior or why go “looking” for one, much less making the decision to put your Trust in one for your Salvation ?
Like many preachers say, “ Ya gotta get ‘ em Lost Before you can get them Saved !”
Even the Phillipian Jailer who asked, “ What must I do to be Saved?” Had to have the Conviction Of sin or he would have never asked that question....
Campbellites deny the work of the Holy Spirit in salvation.

“Thus we see that the eunuch did not need an angel or the Holy Spirit for salvation, but he did need Philip’s message for salvation”-J. H. Parker, SS 4/76, page 10.

“We can further note that the very efforts of the angel and the Holy Spirit in bringing Philip to the eunuch show that such divine agents are to have no direct role in the salvation of a man, rather that a man is to be converted by his hearing another preach the Gospel to him”-J. H. Parker (op. cit.).

The BIBLE teaches that a man is BORN OF [Greek: “EK” (out of)] God. In every instance where the SOURCE of the new birth is mentioned, the language is EK HIM, EK THE SPIRIT, EK GOD. It is therefore essential that the Holy Spirit work in conjunction with the Gospel, or the Word, as ADDITIONAL to the preaching. Campbellites deny such a work of the Holy Spirit, holding that there is nothing more than the Word in bringing about the new birth.

In effect, they deny the very essence of regeneration, which is to be “born from above” (John 3:3). This error leads to their denial of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as taught by evangelical Christianity, and the denial of the security of the believer. They postulate everything upon man’s “obedience” to the letter of the Word, denying an accompanying work of the Holy Spirit. They represent evangelical Christianity as teaching the work of the Spirit “separate from” and “apart from” the Word, when in reality we teach the position as set forth by Paul:

“For our gospel came not unto you IN WORD ONLY, but also in power, and in THE HOLY GHOST . . .”- I Thess. 1:5.

“Lydia . . . whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul”- Acts 16:14.

If there is no additional work, or influence, of the Holy Spirit, then this last verse, which says the Lord “opened her heart,” is superfluous. Obviously, while the WORD is the means of communicating that which is to be believed, the additional unseen work of the Holy Spirit is necessary for being “born from above.” Paul referred to his preaching as being “in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power” (I Cor. 2:4). Is this not why, as so many have observed, Campbellite preaching is so dead, so staccato, and relies so heavily upon human “logic” and “legalism?” The only explanation of this barren spirituality is the absence of the Holy Spirit. This likewise explains their lack of a proper understanding of the Word of God (I Cor. 2:14).

Major Errors of Campbellism on Salvation / Bob L. Ross

 

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,407
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
“ Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw them” .....the Holy Spirit “ draws” PTL God is not willing that any perish but you must choose to believe and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior or reject Him.
 

Gospel Believer

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2019
593
267
63
71
Columbus Ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Double Typo Typo Again? :cry: Well, since you and I do agree, 'Examine ALL' the verses that
deal with God's Salvation, here ya go; Why do you Overlook / Disobey These?:

1) Mat 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​

2) Mat_19:21 (+ Mrk 20:21)

"Jesus Said unto him, IF thou wilt be perfect, go and​
SELL that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt​
have treasure in heaven: and come and follow Me."​


@Ernest T. Bass, IF you have NOT obeyed this yet, how is it that you claim you are
perfect and have God's Salvation, "As God Says"?

or, as man says, only need to "believe, repent, confess, baptized" without obeying the
rest, "picking and choosing" what one will obey, And NOT obey? What Excuse is there
for this kind of confusing theology?

3a) The early church DID NOT have this problem, and was perfect, OBEYING Christ
perfectly to the letter! -
Acts 2:44-45:

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;​
And SOLD their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men,​
as every man had need. " (+ Acts 4:34-37)​
Correct? Don't you and others ALWAYS remind us, ad nauseum:

"faith WITHOUT works is DEAD"?​

3b) Do disobeyers/Deceivers who "believed/repented/confessed/baptized" have Salvation?

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,​
And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a​
certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath​
Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the​
price of the land?​
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in​
thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou​
hast not lied unto men, but unto God.​
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and​
great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men​
arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.​
And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing​
what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye​
sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said​
unto her,​
How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold,​
the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry​
thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost:
and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth,​
buried her by her husband." (Acts 5:1-10)​

Under God's Program of prophecy/covenants/"works" of the LAW For Israel

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Program Of Mystery/GRACE, For The Body Of Christ, With
God's ETERNAL Salvation
Now:

"BY GRACE Through faith are ye SAVED!..."
(Eph 2:8-9; 1Co 15:3-4; Rom 3-5)​

===============================

@Ernest T. Bass, so which is it? Salvation by "works"/Law? OR:

"Rightly Divided From: GRACE/No "works"?​

You say "context Matters"? Or do prefer to stay with the 2000 year old homogenization
of the two, Causing Massive Confusion?:

1Co 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of Peace, as in
all churches of the saints.

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In ALL His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
!

View attachment 28508



Posts come and go .....some good.....some not so good.....this one here? Its Definitely “ a keeper “..... great work, although the weak and confused crowd always finds a way to Twist Scripture and ignore obvious Truth........All we can do is to keep up the good fight of Faith as we contend for the Gospel....
 
  • Love
Reactions: GRACE ambassador