How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Bible_Gazer]

Are you aware that these isn't a single passage of Scripture that says people go to Heaven when they die?

yep .. dead people can't go to heaven.
but a living person can
That is why we must move out alive soul.
Jesus came to save the inner man not the outter man(flesh body). You get a new body anyway. 2Cor.5:1-2

 

[Butch5]

yep .. dead people can't go to heaven.
but a living person can
That is why we must move out alive soul.
Jesus came to save the inner man not the outter man(flesh body). You get a new body anyway. 2Cor.5:1-2

No, no one goes to Heaven, it's simply not found in the Bible. Also there is no inner man. That is a figurative usage of language. Man is a flesh being and when he dies God's breath returns to Him and the man returns to the dust just as the Scriptures say. Also, you don't get a different body, you get a resurrected one.

 

[ATP]

yep .. dead people can't go to heaven.
but a living person can
That is why we must move out alive soul.
Jesus came to save the inner man not the outter man(flesh body). You get a new body anyway. 2Cor.5:1-2

2 Cor 5 speaks of the first resurrection when we receive our new body. This building and house refers to our resurrected bodies.

2 Cor 5:1-10 NIV For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling

 

[Bible_Gazer]

In the book of Revelation
The Angel who was doing most of the talking to John, who did he say he was ?
John was not to worship him.

a fellow brothren

So somebody already made it, and is in his new body from heaven not made from the earth.

 

[Butch5]

In the book of Revelation
The Angel who was doing most of the talking to John, who did he say he was ?
John was not to worship him.

a fellow brothren

So somebody already made it, and is in his new body from heaven not made from the earth.

What do angels have to do with this?

 

[ewq1938]

In the book of Revelation
The Angel who was doing most of the talking to John, who did he say he was ?
John was not to worship him.

a fellow brothren

So somebody already made it, and is in his new body from heaven not made from the earth.

Angels are also brethren....doesn't mean it was a dead saint that was resurrected and I don't think God is resurrecting the dead into bodies until the return of Christ.

 

[ATP]

In the book of Revelation
The Angel who was doing most of the talking to John, who did he say he was ?
John was not to worship him.

a fellow brothren

So somebody already made it, and is in his new body from heaven not made from the earth.

Rev 4:1 is a vision of the rapture.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not:
I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Revelation 22:9
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for
I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets,
and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Well I do think when we get to heaven we will have a body like the Angels - no male or female genders.
The Bride of Christ(church) will be of a different group from the angels, but they are angels.

I don't think the created Angel in heaven are called our brothers.
If there is any scriptures besides the book of revelation for it let me know.

This Angel is a brethren to John.

Are there any scripture to show an angel was ever a prophet ? let me know

 

[ATP]

Well I do think when we get to heaven we will have a body like the Angels - no male or female genders.
The Bride of Christ(church) will be of a different group from the angels, but they are angels.

Which will be at the first resurrection and rapture.

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

 

[Butch5]

In the book of Revelation
The Angel who was doing most of the talking to John, who did he say he was ?
John was not to worship him.

a fellow brothren

So somebody already made it, and is in his new body from heaven not made from the earth.

It's not a different body. Its the same body resurrected. Thats why its called the resurrection. Jesus came out of the tomb in the body He had before the cross. He even showed the disciples His hands and feet. They say the marks from the nails. Christians will also raise in the same body.

I'll address the angel comment later

 

[Bible_Gazer]

It's not a different body. Its the same body resurrected. Thats why its called the resurrection. Jesus came out of the tomb in the body He had before the cross. He even showed the disciples His hands and feet. They say the marks from the nails. Christians will also raise in the same body.

I'll address the angel comment later

Jesus's body never turned to dust like those who been dead and gone to dust or eaten or rotted.

so are you saying there will be women gender in heaven or male as we are now.

Jesus was a special case to show he was resurrected from the dead spirit ,soul and body and nobody else would be like it.

When people go to heaven they have to have a body other wise Paul said we would be naked 2Cor.5.

So they got there heavenly body as it says not from the earth.

 

[ATP]

Jesus's body never turned to dust like those who been dead and gone to dust or eaten or rotted.

so are you saying there will be women gender in heaven or male as we are now.

Jesus was a special case to show he was resurrected from the dead spirit ,soul and body and nobody else would be like it.

When people go to heaven they have to have a body other wise Paul said we would be naked 2Cor.5.

So they got there heavenly body as it says not from the earth.

Correct, Jesus is the only one in the third heaven dwelling in bodily form right now.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not:
I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Revelation 22:9
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for
I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets,
and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Well I do think when we get to heaven we will have a body like the Angels - no male or female genders.

How? The first resurrection doesn't happen until the second coming.

I don't think the created Angel in heaven are called our brothers.

Of course they are. Brethren can be literal brothers or figurative as when a shared idea or belief is held...that makes all who believe in God brethren, including literal heavenly angels.

If there is any scriptures besides the book of revelation for it let me know.

This Angel is a brethren to John.

Are there any scripture to show an angel was ever a prophet ? let me know

Angels give prophecy in scripture making them a prophet if they do. A prophet is not only a human being.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

How? The first resurrection doesn't happen until the second coming.

Did you get resurrected when you were born again ?


Of course they are. Brethren can be literal brothers or figurative as when a shared idea or belief is held...that makes all who believe in God brethren, including literal heavenly angels.

no scripture ?



Angels give prophecy in scripture making them a prophet if they do. A prophet is not only a human being.

no scripture for angel called a prophet ?

 

[Bible_Gazer]

2 Peter 1:13-14
13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Hummm ... I think Peter believed he would receive another tabernacle.

 

[ewq1938]

Did you get resurrected when you were born again ?

No, being born again is not a bodily resurrection.

Of course they are. Brethren can be literal brothers or figurative as when a shared idea or belief is held...that makes all who believe in God brethren, including literal heavenly angels.

no scripture ?

No, just look up the meaning of the word brethren to learn what it means.

no scripture for angel called a prophet ?

You already posted the scripture. What you are lacking is understanding what the words brethren and prophet mean. You need to look them up using a Greek to English dictionary.

 

[ewq1938]

2 Peter 1:13-14
13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Hummm ... I think Peter believed he would receive another tabernacle.

That isn't in dispute. It's WHEN it happens that we are discussing.

 

[Butch5]

Jesus's body never turned to dust like those who been dead and gone to dust or eaten or rotted.

so are you saying there will be women gender in heaven or male as we are now.

Jesus was a special case to show he was resurrected from the dead spirit ,soul and body and nobody else would be like it.

When people go to heaven they have to have a body other wise Paul said we would be naked 2Cor.5.

So they got there heavenly body as it says not from the earth.

Jesus had the same body that went into the grave. Likewise believers will have the same body that goes into the grave. Read Ezekiel chapter 37 It's speaking of Israel's resurrection. Besides John said,

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 Jn. 3:2 KJV)

He rose in the same body, thus so do we. The whole concept of resurrection requires that the same body is raised. Receiving a new body is called Reincarnation.

 

[OzSpen]

Jesus had the same body that went into the grave. Likewise believers will have the same body that goes into the grave. Read Ezekiel chapter 37 It's speaking of Israel's resurrection. Besides John said,

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 Jn. 3:2 KJV)

He rose in the same body, thus so do we. The whole concept of resurrection requires that the same body is raised. Receiving a new body is called Reincarnation.

Butch,

I understand the biblical evidence to present a slightly different picture to what you are saying here.

There is biblical evidence that Jesus' resurrected body was the same but different to the one that went into Joseph of Arimathea's tomb. Here's the evidence:

Sameness

Examples of the sameness of Jesus’ resurrected body (contrary to the spiritualising, metaphorical and apparitional views), based on the clarity of Scripture, include:

(1) Jesus’ followers could recognise his face and voice, including holding his feet and talking to him (Mt 28:9; Lk 24:32; Jn 20:16, 19-20; 21:12);

(2) Some touched his body or were invited to (Mt 28:9; Lk 24:39; Jn 20:17, 27); the scar marks from crucifixion were visible (Lk 24:39; Jn 20:20). Marcus Loane’s comment was that ‘those marks were the infallible proof that His body risen was identical with His body buried’ (Loane 1965:17).

(3) He ate with them (Lk 24:30, 42-43; Jn 21:12-13; Ac 10:40-42);

(4) Jesus was clear about the nature of his post-resurrection body: ‘A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have’ (Lk 24:39).

Differences

However, there were differences, changes in his body, through his resurrection from the dead. Schep’s language is that ‘there are mysterious elements in the appearance narratives’ (Schep 1976:92) and these include,

(1) His appearing and disappearing at will, like that which happened when he vanished from communication with the two people on the Emmaus road (Lk 24:31). In this verse, this is the only use of aphontos in the New Testament and it means to ‘vanish’ from someone (Arndt & Gingrich 1957:124). Schep (1976:82) considered it to be ‘a supernatural disappearance’, while Howard Marshall explains the word as meaning ‘he becomes invisible once he has been recognised…. It is as a supernatural visitor that the risen Jesus is portrayed’ in this verse (Marshall 1978:898).

(2) A sudden and miraculous appearance is suggested in Luke 24:36 when ‘Jesus himself stood among them’.
Could this account for the disciples being ‘startled and frightened’ as they ‘thought they saw a spirit’ (Lk 24:37)? When John recorded this event, he spoke of ‘the doors being locked’ and that ‘Jesus came and stood among them’ (the disciples) (Jn 20:19). There are not indicators of how Jesus overcame the difficulties of how Jesus stood among them when the doors were locked.

(3) There are Scriptures recording that Jesus was not recognised on first indications by those who saw him (see Mt 28:17; Lk 24:16-32); Jn 20:14-17). Schep’s perceptive analysis was that

‘all these mysterious and miraculous elements, together with the miraculous ascension, show that Jesus’ body, though consisting of flesh and bones, was now in a glorified condition and capable of acting independently of the laws of time and space. This does not imply that He Himself was beyond time and space, for this again would mean the annihilation of his true humanity. His body was what Paul called a “spiritual body,” (1 Cor 15:44; Phil 3:20). The word “spiritual” in this connection does not mean “immaterial”’ for Jesus’ body’ (Schep 1976:82).

Ladd summarised the ‘the same but different’ resurrected body of Jesus and its meaning: ‘The resurrection body of Jesus was of the same order as the resurrection bodies of the saints at the end of the age’ (Ladd 1975:123; emphasis in original).

Yes, the resurrected body of Jesus had many of the same features as that which went into the grave, but there were different dimensions that Jesus did not have prior to Golgotha. He was the same, but different.

Oz

Works consulted

[SIZE=11pt]Arndt, W F & Gingrich, F W 1957. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]early Christian literature[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edition [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]licensed to Zondervan Publishing House).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Ladd, G E 1975. I believe in the resurrection of Jesus. Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Eerdmans Publishing Company.[/SIZE]

Loane, M L 1965. It is the Lord. London: Marshall, Morgan and Scott.

[SIZE=11pt]Marshall, I H 1978. The gospel of Luke: A commentary on the Greek text (The new international Greek testament commentary). Grand Rapids,Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Schep, J A 1976. Resurrection of Jesus Christ, in Tenney, M C (gen ed) The Zondervan[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] pictorial encyclopedia of the Bible[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt], Vol 5, 75-83. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House.[/SIZE]

 

[ewq1938]

Butch,

I understand the biblical evidence to present a slightly different picture to what you are saying here.

The saved dead do not resurect into their old bodies according to Paul:

1Co 15:35 But someone will say, How do the dead come back? and with what sort of body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Foolish man, it is necessary for the seed which you put into the earth to undergo death in order that it may come to life again:
1Co 15:37 And when you put it into the earth, you do not put in the body which it will be, but only the seed, of grain or some other sort of plant;
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body, as it is pleasing to him, and to every seed its special body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, another of beasts, another of birds, and another of fishes.
1Co 15:40 And there are bodies of heaven and bodies of earth, but the glory of the one is different from that of the other.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for the glory of one star is different from that of another.
1Co 15:42 So is it with the coming back from the dead. It is planted in death; it comes again in life:
1Co 15:43 It is planted in shame; it comes again in glory: feeble when it is planted, it comes again in power:
1Co 15:44 It is planted a natural body; it comes again as a body of the spirit. If there is a natural body, there is equally a body of the spirit.

As we can see, there are two different bodies for the saved. It is the unsaved which are resurrected into their old bodies, and not into a new body.