Human Freewill the devil's greatest trick

[Renniks]

Well of course! You can pick and choose all the Scripture that you want, but for some reason, you're not acknowledging the passages that the Lord is giving you. Why? Who knows. Good luck.

What do you mean I'm not acknowledging them? Are you acknowledging that the ones I posted make my point?

 

[Renniks]

If we are Enabled to do certain deeds, prepared in advance in fact, how is the COURSE of our lives not under the Lord's total control?

Enabling someone to do some thing is not the same as choosing for them. Am I enabled to avoid sinning? Yes, but do I always do so? No.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

What do you mean I'm not acknowledging them? Are you acknowledging that the ones I posted make my point?

If I haven't, then I do! I do! But what are we to do, then, with such opposing ideas? How do you resolve that?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Enabling someone to do something is not the same as choosing for them. Am I enabled to avoid sinning? Yes, but do I always do so? No.

Are you familiar with the Old Testament? Not many are. Consider the below story and then tell me if the Lord doesn't cause others what they do and don't do.

Genesis 20:2-6 NKJV - "Now Abraham said of Sarah his wife, "She [is] my sister." And Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah. 3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, "Indeed you [are] a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she [is] a man's wife." 4 But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, "Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also? 5 "Did he not say to me, 'She [is] my sister'? And she, even she herself said, 'He [is] my brother.' In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this." 6 And God said to him in a dream, "Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her."

Does this make God a controlling God or not? Was this fair? Was God wrong to cause Abimelech the inability to "touch" Sarah?

I am amazed that this is so difficult to understand. I'm not the one making these claims . . . the Bible is. As I said, I'm just reporting what I've read; that's all.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I can believe whatever I want, because God has predetermined that I be equipped to choose whom I serve, proving that freewill and predetermination are not mutually exclusive, the same way that the length of an object does not exclude that it also have width or height.
Joshua 24:14-15
14 Now, therefore, fear the LORD and serve Him in sincerity and truth; cast aside the gods your fathers served beyond the Euphrates and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. 15 But if it is unpleasing in your sight to serve the LORD, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD!” [Berean Study Bible]

 

[DNB]

You would think freewill was written in every chapter and every paragraph of the bible, in fact there are just a few mentions in the OT and these all have regard to freewill offerings because God never demands back any gifts He has given.

You cannot read any book or pamphlet on the subject of science without you soon encounter an affirmation of evolution, it is pure brainwash and it works.

You cannot read hardly any book or pamphlet about christianity without encountering an affirmation of human freewill, it is pure brainwash.

Jesus never spoke of it, nor did any of His apostles.

There is everywhere the choice obey and live or perish.

This is not freewill, if we obey we will be doing God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill.

What makes freewill impossible is the penalty for non obedience i.e. death. When the devil said "you will not die you will be like God ..." He not only made God out to be a liar but he tricked them into believing they had freewill.

He still works this deception today.

Free will is written in every page of the Bible - every precept that God demanded man to follow, which is emphasized throughout the entirety of Scripture, and stipulated with a consequence, necessitates man's ability to both, comprehend the ramifications of his behaviour, and decide which direction that he will comport to.

Fallen nature is a demonstrable heresy. The Decalogue itself contains over 5 capital crimes, ...what type of Legislator imposes the death sentence for crimes of depravity, upon 'totally depraved' creatures?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Okie Doke. I'm glad that my God didn't give me that choice because anyone with the Sin Nature cannot please God. It is impossible.

Yep your right, I can’t do god works.

faith is not a good work, paul proves this when he claims our salvation is produced by Gods grace through faith, not of works.

I did not conjure up my faith either, your fear of having the ability to receive or reject God is unfounded, because faith is not a work,

Romans 8:8 CSB - "Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

The God I worship, the God of the Bible, lifts this Curse so that such a choice can . . . and will be . . . made.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV - "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

I don't know how anyone could ever ignore these kinds of passages that are scattered throughout the Bible . . . but "christians" do.

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

God can. Ot life the curse while a person is still under the penalty of sin, it cannot be lifted UNTIL the penalty is removed

this is called justification. Or a person is legally declaired righteous as they are given Gods righteosuness. The Bible from front to back this is accomplished through faith

Abraham believed,

justified by faith

over and over

God washed me in his blood.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well of course! You can pick and choose all the Scripture that you want, but for some reason, you're not acknowledging the passages that the Lord is giving you. Why? Who knows. Good luck.

Same can be said of you my friend, you are judging others quite harshly, and not looking in the mirror when you do it, remember when you point, you have three fingers pointing back at you, sadly many like to point but do not look inside,

if ya wanna look at scripture let’s do it, if your just gonna point and judge, well there is nothing really to say

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Free will is written in every page of the Bible - every precept that God demanded man to follow, which is emphasized throughout the entirety of Scripture, and stipulated with a consequence, necessitates man's ability to both, comprehend the ramifications of his behavior, and decide which direction that he will comport to.

Fallen nature is a demonstrable heresy. The Decalogue itself contains over 5 capital crimes, ...what type of Legislator imposes the death sentence for crimes of depravity, upon 'totally depraved' creatures?

Do you accept the translations of the Jews themselves? Do you think that they are the masters of their own writings? If so, they transcribe Job 36:31 this way . . .

Tanakh: "By these things He controls peoples; He gives food in abundance."

I just relay what I see in the Bible (all of them).

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

"

I did not conjure up my faith either, your fear of having the ability to receive or reject God is unfounded, because faith is not a work,

I have no idea of what you've written above actually means. It hasn't anything to do with anything I've written. You may think it does . . . but it doesn't.

"Same can be said of you my friend, you are judging others quite harshly"

Again, I have no idea of what you're talking about. If you're feeling judged; I'd stop right away. I haven't a clue as to who you are, nor anyone else, here. People type words and I read them, but until I see a person's life in action, I don't really know who they are. I judge no one's Heart . . . however, I do judge what people say and do.

"if ya wanna look at scripture let’s do it, if your just gonna point and judge, well there is nothing really to say"

I have no idea of what you're talking about. I'm sorry that you're so offended. I wouldn't be if I were you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You would think freewill was written in every chapter and every paragraph of the bible, in fact there are just a few mentions in the OT and these all have regard to freewill offerings because God never demands back any gifts He has given.

You cannot read any book or pamphlet on the subject of science without you soon encounter an affirmation of evolution, it is pure brainwash and it works.

You cannot read hardly any book or pamphlet about christianity without encountering an affirmation of human freewill, it is pure brainwash.

Jesus never spoke of it, nor did any of His apostles.

There is everywhere the choice obey and live or perish.

This is not freewill, if we obey we will be doing God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill.

What makes freewill impossible is the penalty for non obedience i.e. death. When the devil said "you will not die you will be like God ..." He not only made God out to be a liar but he tricked them into believing they had freewill.

He still works this deception today.

Romans 8:20 Lexicon: For the creation was subjected to futility(vanity and emptiness), not willingly(of one's own free will, voluntary), but because of Him who subjected it (to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey), in hope (expectation)

Is freewill the same as voluntary? The devils greatest trick or the devils greatest boasting?
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary (subjection)humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

 

[Billy Evmur]

What power do I posses other than the power God gave me?

he gave me the power to chose whom I will serve. And gave me the power to receive him I did not conjur this up on my own, but I still chose freely to do it

He did not give Big Chief Sitting Bull the same choice.

You have to explain what virtue, what good thing there is dwelling in you. that is dwelling in your flesh, that enabled you to make the good choice where as others who have as much opportunity and hear the same gospel do not choose. Are you better than they are? is that why you chose to recieve Christ?

The common perception among unbelievers is that christians think they are better than others.

 

[Renniks]

Are you familiar with the Old Testament? Not many are. Consider the below story and then tell me if the Lord doesn't cause others what they do and don't do.

Genesis 20:2-6 NKJV - "Now Abraham said of Sarah his wife, "She [is] my sister." And Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah. 3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, "Indeed you [are] a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she [is] a man's wife." 4 But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, "Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also? 5 "Did he not say to me, 'She [is] my sister'? And she, even she herself said, 'He [is] my brother.' In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this." 6 And God said to him in a dream, "Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her."

Does this make God a controlling God or not? Was this fair? Was God wrong to cause Abimelech the inability to "touch" Sarah?

I am amazed that this is so difficult to understand. I'm not the one making these claims . . . the Bible is. As I said, I'm just reporting what I've read; that's all.

So one incident where God stopped someone from sinning in order to protect his servant makes God all controlling? Please! Yes, God works in human affairs. If he didn't why would we pray for his will to be done?. But the very fact that we are told to pray that shows us that his will is often not done on earth.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Yet even then, we are free to chose god and free to do evil

as scripture said, even gentiles (who were lost) chose to do what the law said even though they do not have the law.

one can not have any type of relationship with anyone apart from free will, if we have no free will, we are robots or puppets, who can only do what we are programmed or forced to do.

our God did not creat or make us this way, and he came to earth to dispel this lie of Satan, and made a fool of him

The scripture does not say "chose" that is your addition

 

[Earburner]

The understanding is we all have FREE WILL to CHOOSE or reject Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Jesus most certainly spoke of it by using the words "whosoever will". If you are a "whosoever", then you will either choose Him or reject Him.
John 3:18

 

[Billy Evmur]

You make a good argument but still incorrect. We have freedom to choose, key word is choose, which implies freedom to choose:

Joshua 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

God gave them the choice, Pharoah He did not give the choice.

 

[Billy Evmur]

The understanding is we all have FREE WILL to CHOOSE or reject Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Jesus most certainly spoke of it by using the words "whosoever will". If you are a "whosoever", then you will either choose Him or reject Him.
John 3:18

But if God closes their eyes and stops up their ears and hardens their hearts lest at any time they should turn to Him and be healed?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The understanding is we all have FREE WILL to CHOOSE or reject Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Jesus most certainly spoke of it by using the words "whosoever will". If you are a "whosoever", then you will either choose Him or reject Him.
John 3:18

“whosoever” will ...without His Spirit man can do nothing. ...can do nothing.
2 Corinthians 13:8 For we can do nothing (have no power) against the truth, but [only](given power) for the truth.


did Christ not teach one must be born again and that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit? And the carnal man not born of Spirit receives not the things which of God? Pause, Consider...

that born (comes forth out from) flesh is flesh.
That born (comes forth out from) Spirit is Spirit.
Then why does the natural man insists over and over that which comes forth of God is born of flesh instead being of born of Spirit; born of the power of God and not men.

 

[Billy Evmur]

The bible says we are born again not by the flesh nor by the will of the flesh but by the will of God, so why claim it was our freewill?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Is freewill the same as voluntary?

How could it be? "Voluntary humility" is the difficult way of saying false humility. Or, we could just say that through our character, we're liars.

No, Free will, which seems to be "independent choice" is not the same thing as false character.