I’m in a strange place: very conservative, but not Christian

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Romanov2488

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If you don't believe in God, ask him to reveal himself to you. You may be very surprised of what happens.

All that’s revealed is that I don’t know. However, all claims are subject to logical scrutiny. Whether someone says there is a god or there is no god at all, I say to that….”prove it”.
 

Windmillcharge

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Whatever the cause may be, it does not automatically mean it is God. Yes, I don’t know if there is a God. I admit that, I just don’t make claims of there being a god or not. All I’m saying is if one makes a claim..be ready to back it with evidence.

Here is the logical issue with the cause and effect model regarding God.

Everything has a creator.
God is that creator.
God does not have a creator.

The solution fails because it violates its own premise.

It fails because of the unfounded asumption that God has a begining.

God discribes himself as the creator of everything, that is taken to mean, space, energy, time and matter.
If that is the case then God is outside of this created universe.
He would not be subject to what we call the laws of science.

If there is no God, you still have to explain why anything exists.
It is far easier to believe in God.
 

Romanov2488

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Have you ever prayed?
Of course I have prayed. I grew up Christian Orthodox. I memorized certain prayers. It was all going through the motions for me. Make this cross sign on yourself with your hand, recite these lines, done.

I started to see the irony and question things when the priest was asking for money to solve church issues while advising me to pray to solve mine. Churches are tax exempt. They do not have to open their books and report how they distribute the funds of their followers. We see these rich televangelists and monumental flashy churches. There is no way to really know what they are doing with those funds. They say they things like they donate to the poor but how do we know they’re only donating 1% of the funds they receive instead of 70%?
 
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Romanov2488

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It fails because of the unfounded asumption that God has a begining.

God discribes himself as the creator of everything, that is taken to mean, space, energy, time and matter.
If that is the case then God is outside of this created universe.
He would not be subject to what we call the laws of science.

If there is no God, you still have to explain why anything exists.
It is far easier to believe in God.

Why do I have to explain why anything exists by inserting something without evidence to “fill the gap”? I’d rather leave it as a gap and whatever we find out, we find out along the way. Whatever we don’t find out, we just don’t find out. Filling the gap with something unsubstantiated kills the possibility of making progress. We would not be where we are today if we treated all issues like that.
 

Mantis

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Of course I have prayed. I grew up Christian Orthodox. I memorized certain prayers. It was all going through the motions for me. Make this cross sign on yourself with your hand, recite these lines, done.

I started to see the irony and question things when the priest was asking for money to solve church issues while advising me to pray to solve mine.
Ahh I see. I think religion itself has turned a lot of people off toward Christianity. Man takes what God gives him and totally screws it up lol. I wasn't raised Christian. In fact I was raised to think that it was all about money. But I always believed in God. I lived a life of heavy sin until one day I just became so sick of living like that. I came to a place of repentance and prayed to God about my life and he literally answered my prayer. It was Jesus. I'll find my testimony and send it to you.
 

Bob Carabbio

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The burden of proof is on anyone making a claim that a certain deity exists of any religion.

Wrong again. I can't prove "Gravity", But it proves itself by being there. Drop your cell phone, and there it is. Gravity isn't "MY Claim" - it's just there. GOD isn't "my claim" He's just there whether you happen to believe that or not. HE is the one that will "Prove Himself", not me.

I am not concerned about God, I am concerned about the ‘evidence’ that is being presented by those who make the assertion. I will be concerned about God once there is evidence of one.

If you're not "concerned" why are you here??? It's not MY JOB to "convince you of anything.

Suppose some random stranger walked up to you on the street and said. “Give me 20% of your income.” You ask him, “What’s in it for me?” He holds up a religious text, “Says here there is a god. Here is what happens if you accept him and if you don’t accept him.” You then ask, “Do you have any actual evidence of this god you speak of?” His only reply is, “There is no need for evidence, there is no burden of proof to meet, it is completely faith based.” Would you do it?

Meaningless. I give something in the range of 10% to the CHurch I attend, and I have no need of any proof beyond what my relationship with God provides almost every day. I understand that you've got NOTHING (except that uneasiness about HIM).
 

farouk

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Ahh I see. I think religion itself has turned a lot of people off toward Christianity. Man takes what God gives him and totally screws it up lol. I wasn't raised Christian. In fact I was raised to think that it was all about money. But I always believed in God. I lived a life of heavy sin until one day I just became so sick of living like that. I came to a place of repentance and prayed to God about my life and he literally answered my prayer. It was Jesus. I'll find my testimony and send it to you.
@Mantis Ppl need to get back to prayer and the Scriptures; and see beyond the "poor advertisements" that there sometimes are........
 
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Romanov2488

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Wrong again. I can't prove "Gravity", But it proves itself by being there. Drop your cell phone, and there it is. Gravity isn't "MY Claim" - it's just there. GOD isn't "my claim" He's just there whether you happen to believe that or not. HE is the one that will "Prove Himself", not me.



If you're not "concerned" why are you here??? It's not MY JOB to "convince you of anything.



Meaningless. I give something in the range of 10% to the CHurch I attend, and I have no need of any proof beyond what my relationship with God provides almost every day. I understand that you've got NOTHING (except that uneasiness about HIM).

Gravity hasn’t been proven, which is why it’s called a theory in the science community. But, that theory can be tested over and over again with consistent results. Gravitational lensing effects can even be seen when looking into deep space with a telescope. Can you run an experiment on your belief in God with consistent results?

You are saying God is there no matter what without calling it a theory or a belief. You are passing off a belief as unadulterated truth. You are not being honest about the fact that it’s a belief.

And if you do something without questioning it one bit (such as giving money to a church) that is your personal decision. My point is that I wouldn’t make a decision without utilizing critical thought.

I cannot be uneasy of something of which I don’t know or have evidence of. The idea of there being a God can also be applied to other unsubstantiated claims of demons, ghosts, talking snakes, flying spaghetti monsters. All of that belongs to faith and belief.

“God isn’t my claim-but he’s there.” That’s a non sequitur.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Gravity hasn’t been proven, which is why it’s called a theory in the science community.

SO much for the "Science community".

Belief (mental assent) has no substance, and is evidence of nothing (except how you feel at the time). In practical terms it's completely untrustworthy, and changes with the phase of the moon.

FAITH (Biblical faith) on the other hand HAS Substance, and stands as an Evidence of what you don't see. It's NEVER Blind, but solidly grounded on God's Word to you.

Can you run an experiment on your belief in God with consistent results?

Chuckle!!! What part of "it's not my job to convince you of anything" didn't you get???? Paul stated that among the unregenerate, "he knows NOTHING, except Christ, and Him Crucified".

I cannot be uneasy of something of which I don’t know or have evidence of.

Then why are you here, on a Christian oriented discussion board asking questions????
 

stunnedbygrace

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And I couldn’t get into it primarily because I can’t put my faith in something that cannot be proven. I am in no way insinuating that God does not exist because I can’t prove it. But, it is the assertions of people who claim God exists that places the burden of proof on them. This goes for all religions that make claims of a god or gods. I could care less which religion is responsible for the most hypocrisy and violence throughout human history. That stuff can be debated to death and it distracts from the main issue: meeting the burden of proof for anyone making assertions of something without proof.

I was like you, almost exactly. No man could have ever convinced me. Ever. Apologetics are just arguments. I needed proof.
 

Romanov2488

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SO much for the "Science community".

Belief (mental assent) has no substance, and is evidence of nothing (except how you feel at the time). In practical terms it's completely untrustworthy, and changes with the phase of the moon.

FAITH (Biblical faith) on the other hand HAS Substance, and stands as an Evidence of what you don't see. It's NEVER Blind, but solidly grounded on God's Word to you.



Chuckle!!! What part of "it's not my job to convince you of anything" didn't you get???? Paul stated that among the unregenerate, "he knows NOTHING, except Christ, and Him Crucified".



Then why are you here, on a Christian oriented discussion board asking questions????

We both know it’s a cheap victory to make a claim and then turning around saying that there is no burden of proof on you.

And gravity does not exist, it’s a theory. It has not been proven. Again, that was a poor example in comparing it to God by saying it can’t be seen but it’s still there.

If faith has substance, it would be quantifiable. You say it’s never blind, it’s solidly grounded, etc. etc. we are getting into word salad here. Science is diametrically opposed to faith. The scientific method says nothing of faith. This is the issue: science moves forward…faith remains in place.

Anyways, the answer to your last question is in my original post. I usually align with Christians on many political issues. Also, notice how even though the forum is Christian, there is a subsection for non Christians. Why are you in the non-Christian section? If you have any doubts…I perfectly understand.
 

Romanov2488

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I was like you, almost exactly. No man could have ever convinced me. Ever. Apologetics are just arguments. I needed proof.

There are many logical fallacies and poor arguments on both sides of the aisle. For example a very poor argument used by Christians is that atheists were never truly Christian. There are atheists who have been more devoted to the faith than you or I, yet still were able to arrive to rationally arrive to a conclusion of non belief. I think many Christians wrongly assume that there is no way one could rationally conclude that they’re an atheist. They’ve got to be angry at God, Satan must of gotten to them, etc. etc. This is known as outgroup bias which both sides are guilty of.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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We are born deaf and blind. Can’t hear God, can’t see God. It’s kind of ridiculous, in my opinion, to tell a man born blind that he is choosing to be blind. His blindness needs to be healed for him to see. Berating him isn’t going to make him see!
 

Romanov2488

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We are born deaf and blind. Can’t hear God, can’t see God. It’s kind of ridiculous, in my opinion, to tell a man born blind that he is choosing to be blind. His blindness needs to be healed for him to see. Berating him isn’t going to make him see!

If we see God in the form of beauty or love…then that would be different. But if we’re talking about seeing God as an actual deity…that’s where it all falls apart.

It’s funny to me how nearly every religion says something bad about those who aren’t on board with it. Not only that but we can say we have 3,000 gods total and out of all those gods…only theirs is real. The rest are false. I have yet to see a religion not claim exclusivity. When I see people of different faiths debating one another, they’re both so entrenched in them that they can’t take a step back and look at all of them for what they are: a religion.
 
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Mantis

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If we see God in the form of beauty or love…then that would be different. But if we’re talking about seeing God as an actual deity…that’s where it all falls apart.

It’s funny to me how nearly every religion says something bad about those who aren’t on board with it. Not only that but we can say we have 3,000 gods total and out of all those gods…only theirs is real. The rest are false. I have yet to see a religion not claim exclusivity. When I see people of different faiths debating one another, they’re both so entrenched in them that they can’t take a step back and look at all of them for what they are: a religion.
The difference between christianity and all the other religions? We have prophecy.
 
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BeyondET

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Planet created. Not as we know it. It was in Water. Once extracted out of the Water, it was Dry Land and called Earth. Gen chapter 1.

Mankind created and made out of the Dust of the Earth.
Created...ie Formed.
Made......ie Given Life Gen chapter 1.

God scattered SEEDS upon the Earth, that it grow, have its own seeds within it, reproduce its same KIND of thing. Gen chapter 1

God gives every Seed, its own body. 1 Cor. 15;38

The Earth, came first Before the Seeds.
Every Seed has its own Seeds to replicate its own kind of thing.
Every Seed upon the Earth, requires the Earth (its habitat), to sustain its own life. Ponder...

About 60-70% of the Earth is water.
About 60-70% of the Body is water.

The Earth has minerals, gold, silver, iron, etc. & nutrients etc.
A Body requires those thing to live.
Water is completely made out of elements hydrogen and oxygen, and the dirt on earth is from rocks and clay and decayed trees and animals and water and others things

Yes the body requires elements even simple rocks in the ear canals for balance.

60% of earth is covered with a thin layer of water but its just a puddle compared to the size of Earth. There is far more water in humans than on earth as far as amount comparison.
main-qimg-42ac0a5d0e4ded1de49b1656c9e5d6e6-lq.jpeg

Gold is interesting along with a few more that is only produced by a supernova of a star.
 
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Romanov2488

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It's interesting here, and the arguments are generally of the same overall quality.

Well, the original concern here was being religious/atheistic while being politically affiliated generally with the party that opposes religion or atheism. I see eye to eye with Christians in general on many fiscal, national and foreign policy issues..but once they start going on about issues such as abortion, that’s where we part. The only thing I can say about the abortion issue is that Roe was a fragile way to protect abortion rights which is why the liberals are in the position they are now. We can sit here and argue that the SCOTUS is religiously driven but it cannot be proven.

GOP just needs more secular officials in my opinion. There is enough contradiction between the teachings of Jesus and the GOP’s policies. Another reason I won’t proclaim to be a follower of Jesus.

I don’t believe in government taking care of people because there’s no evidence that it helps people. Liberal policies are largely about making liberals feel better about themselves and don’t have much to do with helping other people. Liberal policies do more to create and perpetuate the very problems they purport to “fix”. You’ve got affirmative action putting people in position to fail, while at the same time creating a perception that minorities can’t succeed without lowering the bar. Federal housing projects created some of the worst blight and made the lives of those being “helped” miserable. Paying people not to work (aka welfare) has created a permanent dependency class whose job skills have atrophied. Wherever you find rampant homelessness, you can be sure to find a Democratic majority in the local government. Minimum wage laws price the least skilled workers out of the job market. Political correctness is a downright Orwellian suppression of free speech and free thought.

The point is, liberal policies might sound good, and might make the liberal feel better about themselves, but they largely wreak havoc on the very people they’re supposed to help. Likewise, believing in a deity might make you feel better about yourself, but at the cost of your reason and critical thinking.

Frankly, I’m surprised most atheists aren’t conservatives. Both theism and modern liberalism have their roots in magical thinking.
 
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