I ask the Trinitarians and the Jehovah's Witnesses...
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To meet someone is to understand them and how they operate.
To say a pacifist is happy to hurt another is not to know them.
There often confusion over the holy and the real. People search for signs, miracles when walking in repentance, faith and love is in front of them.
Peter knew Jesus but missed the sacrifice needed to atone. Layers of truth bring reality when you begin to walk with Him.
Yes, I guess that's feasible. Slightly hypocritical or naive, but feasible all the same.
Perfe tion is incumbent upon us all. Be holy, as I am holy is the mandate for all humanity. Christ attained perfection. Seeing perfection in him, and thus, the perfected image of God, does not mean that he's God.
Why, Cooper, do you prefer enigmas and confusion, over sound and reasonable exegesis?
You continuously speak these absurdities in a rather stoic and unreserved manner. Cooper, you've either been severely indoctrinated, or gone off the deep-end?
Exodus 7:1-1
7:1. Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Syncretism is the integrating of several religions into one. Did you mean something else, or, I didn't get your comparison?
Sorry FH, but the love of Jesus is rather apparent to all sincere and objective devotees. The reason that he can't be God is exactly that. Jesus' most impressive and sanctifying characteristic, was his unconditional love for God. And, there is no perfection without this disposition. God does not love Himself, especially unto man's salvation, in any meaningful and prudent manner. It's actually absurd and offensive to affirm such things about God.
I have to say trying to see you suggestion, I realised it is shifting the cultural meaning of love between different aspects at the same time to also limit it. Truly God loves that He loves. Love knows the power of itself and its importance. Narcissism is putting oneself infront of others, as if ones strengths and beauty is better than anything else. Appreciating ones inner realities and truths is not narcissistic but rather self awareness.
For me Jesus most impressive characteristic is His love. In a sense Jesus, the Lamb, is worshipped as the one worthy through action to open the scrolls of ownership of earth. But the Father has always been worthy, except to forgive and redeem a people, only through the walk and demonstration of love in action was this possible, that we might follow Him.
From your words you talk about love and Jesus from a distance, like Jesus can be summarised with this heirarchy of characteristics. I have a problem with doing this in any degree with regard to the Living God. I am in not position to compare or know. I just know I must follow because that is where my heart is. God bless you
We seem to be talking about 2 different things? This thread is about the veracity of Jesus being God. I used the love of Jesus to demonstrate that he cannot be God. Certain points that you made are valid, in and of themselves, but I don't believe that they pertain directly to the controversy of Christ's alleged deity, a principle that I vehemently denounce?
Christ is who you discover Him to be. Clearly for you He is not the Messiah, or example or Lord and King.
In a sense this is a distinguishing feature of the work of the Father in our hearts and being born of the Holy Spirit.
I can be wish you well, and share to me Jesus is God, my Lord and Saviour.
Again, you are assuming that you are correct, and not addressing the implausibility of the Atonement that has God propitiate Himself. And therefore, assuming what my Christology is.
I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, the first-born of creation, and the first-born from the dead. He is God's chosen Messiah, and died on the cross for our sins as a perfect sacrifice. And thus, cannot be God, obviously.
And it is only through believing in all these principles stated above, that one has salvation unto eternal life.
My friend, I walk by faith. Now you may say this is an assumption, but I would say this is an experience. We go outside our houses and walk down the street because we know it is safe, and have passed good experience of doing such a thing.
I can see your argument about Jesus being a sacrifice means He cannot be God. What you have neglected to comment on, it was Jesus Himself who declared He had to be the atoning sacrifice, except He would overcome death, so the sacrifice was like no other sacrifice ever given before.
I do not define who Jesus is, Jesus tells me and reveals it to me as I walk. You have the idea that you can define things that are given be revelation. Jesus said simply if we have a pure heart we will see Him. This is so profound, because it cuts through argument to who we are before the Living God. Jesus came to be our friend, to declare our acceptability to Him as sharers in His Kingdom, on His throne.
Now this is absurd, unless He was declaring the nature of Himself, God, and the nature of us made in His image. You want to create some barrier between Him and you, which says there is something more profound in the Father, than the Father revealed through the Son.
And that for me says it all. You find the revelation and reality not enough.
Until you can see the treasure beyond price that Jesus is, you will always believe as you do.
God bless you.
No one disagrees on this point, but where does this principle necessitate that Jesus be God?
Jesus read the Scriptures and knew exactly what his purpose was, and what was required of him to redeem man, and if he obeyed, what lay ahead for both himself and man.
How did you turn such a straight-forward logistic, into some mystical and incomprehensible dynamic that declares Jesus to be the transcendent and omnipresent God?
For me there is a mystery in two ideas. The Word. We live our lives by words, literally. All our relationships, actions, security are based on words and their meaning. Some are delusional, images, and some are real, as real as touching and walking down a street.
God created everything through speaking words. Words have power. Jesus is Gods word, spoken forth to us. This is mystical, and mysterious and also obvious and assumed. But we take words are miss-use it so easily, like Gods name, as if the Lord is not the foundation of everything. Would people take plastic explosive and throw it about if they knew the damage it can do, yet words will be thrown like they have little significance or damage.
The second is vulnerability and sacrifice. The choosing to risk harm and cost for another, and desiring the best of situation not considering the hurt that might result. It is not so much ignoring the cost, but measuring against the beneficial outcome and counting the outcome worthy of the price. Jesus reflected Gods heart, His approach, His desire, His way because He is God. We talk as if we understand individualism, while being as a human a community of cells and processes which give us this sensation of being together, while it is easy to demonstrate this in itself is a perception of layers of processes and actions that are done for us. Biologists have sometimes come to believe our own existence and choices are the delusion rather they are all determined. And I agree this is possible, except the world seems structured around providing each creature the ability to choose within constraints to provide the chance of survival of some over this random experience of an aggressive and dangerous existence.
The reason Jesus is God, is because this is the point. God has chosen us, His people to be His friends.
28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
John 20:28
"I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."
John 11:27
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Phil 2:6-11
Blasphemy to the Jews was to equate a mortal fallen man to be the same as God, in status and value.
By Jesus calling God Father, was enough for them. Jesus pointed out that even David and the prophets were regarded as sons of God.
Paul goes on further to describe Jesus's nature was that of God, yet He is also separate and different.
Jesus is therefore Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The mystery is this communion with God in our hearts, at a real emotional physical level is eternal life, is the Kingdom come down to earth, not that God needs to take us out of the world, rather we are His Kingdom present here and now.
I realise lots of boundaries and sharing as well as distinction is hard for us to accept and also see both aspects. Take energy. We feel heat and light, we know it, yet it is beyond our description. We talk of photons and light waves, while both cannot not exist together yet they do. It is our way of describing something that for us gives it certainty, yet the description is just that, it has no effect on the thing being described and is just a reaction to our experience. So with Jesus, our description is our experience.
Jesus is the cornerstone of Israel, the eternal revelation to mankind of hope and a future.
God bless you
A god-man is not a mystery, it's an oxymoron. 3 all powerful persons within a single godhead is the epitome of redundancy and confusion, not glory.
I'm sorry FH, but you are desperately trying to glorify something that inherently has no glory or fame, but rather defamation and bewilderment, especially to all its adherents.
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