I believe that gay people have as much of a "choice" to be gay as you do to not sin

[St. SteVen]

Patrick1966 said:

Romans 11:32 esv
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Read the context, Patrick! Paul is speaking of both the Jew and the Gentile needing to be saved.

Well, let's take attendance here.
Only two kinds of people in the world. Jews and gentiles. (non-Jews)
So who is missing from "all"?

 

[Jim B]

The only problem I have with the statement at the top is the quotation marks around the word choice, because that also implies that we have no say in whether we sin or not, which is completely false. Paul’s letter to Titus says that the grace which has been shown us teaches us to break away from sin. Also, God does not punish people for nothing; He always punishes sinful behavior. Homosexuality is not a choice, it is a sin, and it is an even greater sin that Christians are backing out from speaking against it.

a) Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself (repeating what His Father said in the Old Testament.
b) Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. If He didn't speak against it, why are you? Are you smarter than Jesus, who knew God's thoughts perfectly?

 

[Patrick1966]

LOL! That ain't even good English! Again, basing doctrine on a single, one-person translation, published 161 years ago, is an excellent example of eisegesis.

You may learn some day that exact translation between ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek is impossible. There are too many differences in vocabulary, verb tenses, idioms, etc. to make a "literal" translation possible. All translators, including Robert Young, have to make decisions throughout the translation process. That is why the best translations are made by committees of scholars, not by a single (fallible) person. You are just using Young's "literal" translation -- which is anything but literal -- to justify your predetermined doctrine. You are fooling nobody but yourself!

You put your faith and trust in the same worldly system that use to sell "get out of purgatory" cards to believers. You constantly belittle and ridicule others who don't goose-step to your own incomplete understanding of God's truth.

 

[Patrick1966]

Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself...

You've been accused of a lot of things in this community, but I don't believe you've ever been accused of loving your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Patrick1966]

Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

[Jim B]

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I don't see homosexuality mentioned here. Jesus is clearly saying that He has come to full the law and the prophets, i.e., the Old Covenant.

 

[Jim B]

You put your faith and trust in the same worldly system that use to sell "get out of purgatory" cards to believers. You constantly belittle and ridicule others who don't goose-step to your own incomplete understanding of God's truth.

Well, I'm certainly glad that at least you have perfect understanding! LOL!!!

How can you call yourself a Christian and write such garbage? (There is actually a better word than "garbage", but it's probably not permissible to use on this forum.)

 

[Jim B]

You've been accused of a lot of things in this community, but I don't believe you've ever been accused of loving your neighbor as yourself.

That ain't no accusation! That is how I think and act.

 

[St. SteVen]

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

How do you abolish a Prophet? - LOL

Below is an interesting follow-up to Matthew 5:17.
Jesus explains what he meant.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in
the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

 

[Patrick1966]

How do you abolish a Prophet?

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law

I take that to mean that, what was offensive to God in the prior ages, remains offensive to him. Is my understanding mistaken?

 

[Patrick1966]

I don't see homosexuality mentioned here. Jesus is clearly saying that He has come to full the law and the prophets, i.e., the Old Covenant.

So Paul was wrong?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV​

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law

I take that to mean that, what was offensive to God in the prior ages, remains offensive to him. Is my understanding mistaken?

Jesus wasn't speaking about the law(s) themselves, but rather the BOOKS of the Law and the BOOKS of the Prophets.
He hadn't come to abolish them. See scriptures below about the terms Law and Prophets. (and Psalms)

• Matthew 7:12
  So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
  
  
• Matthew 11:13
  For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
  
  
• Matthew 22:40
  All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
  
  
• Luke 16:16
  “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
  
  
• Luke 24:44
  He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
  
  
• John 1:45
  Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
  
  
• Acts 13:15
  After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”

 

[Patrick1966]

Jesus wasn't speaking about the law(s) themselves, but rather the BOOKS of the Law and the BOOKS of the Prophets.
He hadn't come to abolish them. See scriptures below about the terms Law and Prophets. (and Psalms)

• Matthew 7:12
  So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
  
  
• Matthew 11:13
  For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
  
  
• Matthew 22:40
  All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
  
  
• Matthew 23:29
  “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
  
  
• Luke 16:16
  “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
  
  
• Luke 24:44
  He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
  
  
• John 1:45
  Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
  
  
• Acts 13:15
  After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”

Thanks my brother! I love scriptural responses!

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you! That was helpful!

Abstract​

Twin and family studies have shown that same-sex sexual behavior is partly genetically influenced, but previous searches for specific genes involved have been underpowered. We performed a genome-wide association study (GWAS) on 477,522 individuals, revealing five loci significantly associated with same-sex sexual behavior. In aggregate, all tested genetic variants accounted for 8 to 25% of variation in same-sex sexual behavior, only partially overlapped between males and females, and do not allow meaningful prediction of an individual's sexual behavior. Comparing these GWAS results with those for the proportion of same-sex to total number of sexual partners among nonheterosexuals suggests that there is no single continuum from opposite-sex to same-sex sexual behavior. Overall, our findings provide insights into the genetics underlying same-sex sexual behavior and underscore the complexity of sexuality.

Insights . . . postulates . . . and no "gay gene."

Much love!

Oh i can tell you much about twins , triplets . Identical ones . same genetic makeup .
I myself come from a family of identical twins all over the family .
I myself am an identical triplet . This born that way genetic stuff is A LIE from HELL.
Twin uncles , identical . One was gay the other was not
So there is that . Not to mention one of us three had that problem . Not me . Its not a genetic problem .
ITS simply a SIN PROBLEM . THey are not BORN that way . I mean identical twins and triplets , have the same identical genes
my friend . SO why were some gay and others not . EXACTLY . THEY LYING TO US MARK . THEY are lying .
And the one who had those thoughts and beliefs , REPENTED OF IT TOO .
ITs not a genetic birth defect , ITS A SIN problem . And the more they entertain it the more they are given over to the delusion
of it . ITs nothing more than lust . Speaking of which one twin thinks he is female , one knows he is a male .
FIGURE that one out too . ITS all a lie mark . THEY lying to us about this stuff
in order to get it ACCEPTED to society . IT was all a lie .

 

[TinMan]

So Paul was wrong?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV​

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

are the translators?

 

[TinMan]

Oh i can tell you much about twins , triplets . Identical ones . same genetic makeup .
I myself come from a family of identical twins all over the family .
I myself am an identical triplet . This born that way genetic stuff is A LIE from HELL.
Twin uncles , identical . One was gay the other was not
So there is that . Not to mention one of us three had that problem . Not me . Its not a genetic problem .
ITS simply a SIN PROBLEM . THey are not BORN that way . I mean identical twins and triplets , have the same identical genes
my friend . SO why were some gay and others not . EXACTLY . THEY LYING TO US MARK . THEY are lying .
And the one who had those thoughts and beliefs , REPENTED OF IT TOO .
ITs not a genetic birth defect , ITS A SIN problem . And the more they entertain it the more they are given over to the delusion
of it . ITs nothing more than lust . Speaking of which one twin thinks he is female , one knows he is a male .
FIGURE that one out too . ITS all a lie mark . THEY lying to us about this stuff
in order to get it ACCEPTED to society . IT was all a lie .

Identical twins don't share 100% of their DNA

In identical twins may or may not share identical genetic features, blood type, eye color, height, etc. the rate that twins will share these features in called concordance. Very few features have a 100% concordance, the only one i can find is blood type.

Eye color in identical twins has a 98% concordance meaning that if one twin has green eyes the other twon has a 98% chance of having green eyes. And it also means that on average for every 100 sets of identical twins two of those sets will have twins with different eye colors

Juvenile onset Type 1 diabetes is knowns to be caused by a gene on the 6th chromosome and it has on a 32% concordance. If one twin is a type 1 diabetic the other twin has a 32% chance of also being diabetic.

Multiple sclerosis has a concordance of30%

Left handedness has a concordance of 24%

Rheumatoid arthritis has a concordance of 12%

Homosexuality has a concordance of 54% to 65% depending on the source you refence. It is one of the highest concordance traits we know of

the biggest source for variation among twins actually comes from Epigenetic mechanisms which affect HOW genes are expressed. Epigenetics can act on identical genes in identical twins, say, by switching a gene off in one twin, while it remains on in the other.


This is all basic genetics.

 

[Patrick1966]

are the translators?

Do you have evidence of a mistranslation?

 

[Daniel Blogger]

It would be hypocritical of me to pontificate about the sin of homosexuality while neck-deep in my own sins.

Everyone battles with sin and is responsible before God regarding what they do and how it affects others, and if we realize that sin affects not only our relationship with God but also with others, the issue becomes what we do to restore our relationships. To say that everybody sins is not enough. In fact, this should be the starting point of restoration rather than an end to every attempt to live as God wants us to. There might be a multitude of things one is battling with, and it might seem impossible to tackle all of them at once, but with God’s help—and maybe even professional help—obstacles can be overcome, and slowly regain ground that was lost. If everyone would think in their own direction that sin can be overcome, regardless of what the sin is, everyone’s world would be different.

 

[Patrick1966]

Everyone battles with sin and is responsible before God regarding what they do and how it affects others, and if we realize that sin affects not only our relationship with God but also with others, the issue becomes what we do to restore our relationships. To say that everybody sins is not enough. In fact, this should be the starting point of restoration rather than an end to every attempt to live as God wants us to. There might be a multitude of things one is battling with, and it might seem impossible to tackle all of them at once, but with God’s help—and maybe even professional help—obstacles can be overcome, and slowly regain ground that was lost. If everyone would think in their own direction that sin can be overcome, regardless of what the sin is, everyone’s world would be different.

I have repented from many forms of sin, but not from all of them. I am a flawed, busted, broken, Christian that knows that only Jesus can heal and save me.

 

[Daniel Blogger]

a) Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself (repeating what His Father said in the Old Testament.
b) Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. If He didn't speak against it, why are you? Are you smarter than Jesus, who knew God's thoughts perfectly?

a). Loving your neighbors and ignoring what they do are totally two different things
b). Jesus is the Son of God, and he did not come to destroy the law that God gave but to show us how to fulfill it through love. If you think that Jesus never spoke against homosexuality, read Matthew 10:15, Luke 17:29, as well as what some of the prophets and apostles had to say about it. God gave us his law because he loves us, and we are expected to show God’s love by doing what he asked us.