I believe the Lord Jesus' coming again

[amadeus]

"And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:
But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up.
For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys." Exodus 40:36-38


"And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD,
So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD." I Kings 8:10-11

 

[amadeus]

"And said to his servant, Go up now, look toward the sea. And he went up, and looked, and said, There is nothing. And he said, Go again seven times.
And it came to pass at the seventh time, that he said, Behold, there ariseth a little cloud out of the sea, like a man's hand. And he said, Go up, say unto Ahab, Prepare thy chariot, and get thee down, that the rain stop thee not.
And it came to pass in the mean while, that the heaven was black with clouds and wind, and there was a great rain. And Ahab rode, and went to Jezreel." I Kings 18:43-45

 

[amadeus]

"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Daniel 7:13-14

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What are the clouds with which or in which he appears? Are they simply rain bearing water vapor filled gatherings of air or are they people? If people how did they get to be with him instead of being with those looking up into the sky?


"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," Heb 12:1

Recall that when Moses led the people, they were all led by the cloud pillar by day and the fire pillar by night. How would that relate to this of which you speak?

Acts 1:9
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

 

[amadeus]

Acts 1:9
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

But then again not all clouds have water, do they?


"These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots" Jude 1:12

 

[bbyrd009]

What are the clouds with which or in which he appears? Are they simply rain bearing water vapor filled gatherings of air or are they people? If people how did they get to be with him instead of being with those looking up into the sky?


"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," Heb 12:1

Recall that when Moses led the people, they were all led by the cloud pillar by day and the fire pillar by night. How would that relate to this of which you speak?

yes, very nice imo; "clouds" works on more than one level, and Christ "coming with clouds" is an inspired way to put it

 

[Nancy]

hmm. As a function of my hopefully improved vision, having plucked one eye out, is the best answer i could really give i guess. Of course children raised on santa claus who want to be immortal like all the pharaohs and Romans did are not going to be very satisfied with that, so we need some clouds right, and there would have to be some manip of death, when do we really die, is that death the same as those who are walking around "dead" now according to Scripture? etc
So the first death and the second death are employed, and we tend to forget that physical death is irrelevant to God, only relevant to us imo. We meet Christ in the air when we change our minds imo, and only God knows when that will be

"As a function of my hopefully improved vision, having plucked one eye out, is the best answer i could really give i guess." Lol...Shall I suppose you are talking about Matthew 5:30 here? I think this is directly after Jesus is now directing His words to Pharisees...? He is not being literal IMO.

"manip of death, when do we really die, is that death the same as those who are walking around "dead" now according to Scripture?"

I'm not sure what u mean by manipulation of death??
My simplicity say's we can be physically alive but spiritually dead. Even the lost (those without Christ) in this world are blessed of God, food raiment, shelter, sun, rain etc. If not believing and submitting and repenting of their sin, to the Truth (Jesus) before physically dying-their separation will be total and final...I do not know what all that entails, by any means, but without His "general" blessings, it can't be good.

"and we tend to forget that physical death is irrelevant to God, only relevant to us imo."
Personally speaking, that sting of physical death has left me a long tie ago, which rendered it irrelevant to me. Yes, I do not want to die in a hospital or in a horrible way, who does? I just trust in my Father.

"We meet Christ in the air when we change our minds imo, and only God knows when that will be"

I believe that will be either a "snatching up" or when He meets us individually after our souls depart from our dead bodies. Or, it happens all at once. My firm belief is that we must come to Him while we are living on this earth BEFORE any "catching up" occurs. Or...maybe you are speaking purely spiritual with the meeting of Christ in the air when we become saved? To what end? What say you of heaven or the afterlife?

 

[bbyrd009]

He is not being literal IMO.

ha well neither was i? that is shorthand for 'stop being a determinist'
takes two eyes to focus on the literal, etc

I'm not sure what u mean by manipulation of death?

well, playing with the concept to appear to cater to those who seek immortality (the world) while forwarding the Good News

manipulating the concept we know as 'death' into one known as 'spiritual death' and manipulating the timing to baptism rather than end-of-life, and installing several caveats to insure the point gets across, no one has ever gone to heaven, only one immortal, all go to the same place, prolly a hundred of them?

My simplicity say's we can be physically alive but spiritually dead. Even the lost (those without Christ) in this world are blessed of God, food raiment, shelter, sun, rain etc. If not believing and submitting and repenting of their sin, to the Truth (Jesus) before physically dying-their separation will be total and final...I do not know what all that entails, by any means, but without His "general" blessings, it can't be good.

why do you say "before physically dying" though? i would encourage you to spend a day or so testing this premise next to Scripture and Life, More Abundantly

 

[bbyrd009]

"and we tend to forget that physical death is irrelevant to God, only relevant to us imo."
Personally speaking, that sting of physical death has left me a long tie ago, which rendered it irrelevant to me. Yes, I do not want to die in a hospital or in a horrible way, who does? I just trust in my Father.

trust that the part of you that is not One has absolutely no chance of immortality, and never did
imo
so to put that another way, the part of us called "ego" that we consider "me" is strictly a construct that we fashion ourselves, and it is the part that has to die, not the part that might attain eternal life

 

[bbyrd009]

"We meet Christ in the air when we change our minds imo, and only God knows when that will be"

I believe that will be either a "snatching up" or when He meets us individually after our souls depart from our dead bodies. Or, it happens all at once. My firm belief is that we must come to Him while we are living on this earth BEFORE any "catching up" occurs. Or...maybe you are speaking purely spiritual with the meeting of Christ in the air when we become saved? To what end? What say you of heaven or the afterlife?

ah, wadr i'm not sure what this "become saved" even means, can't find that in the Book anywhere
and most of the ppl claiming to be "saved" have fashioned meeting Christ in the air into Rapture i guess? To what end "I came that you might have life, more abundantly. "The kingdom of heaven is within you." "We do not yet know what we will become." "There is only One Immortal." "Knowledge brings sorrow." "Your sorrow will turn to joy."

 

[Nancy]

ah, wadr i'm not sure what this "become saved" even means, can't find that in the Book anywhere
and most of the ppl claiming to be "saved" have fashioned meeting Christ in the air into Rapture i guess? To what end "I came that you might have life, more abundantly. "The kingdom of heaven is within you." "We do not yet know what we will become." "There is only One Immortal." "Knowledge brings sorrow." "Your sorrow will turn to joy."

So, you are saying that you think there is no "afterlife" from this horrid earth? This is it??
Did not the rich man ask Jesus "What must I do to be saved" And the word itself, is in the bible hundreds of times...save/saved/salvation...

 

[Nancy]

trust that the part of you that is not One has absolutely no chance of immortality, and never did
imo
so to put that another way, the part of us called "ego" that we consider "me" is strictly a construct that we fashion ourselves, and it is the part that has to die, not the part that might attain eternal life

Would not "ego" simply mean "personality" in that sense? And, yes, I understand that flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of God but, I also believe God gave us different personalities...wish I had a clear view about your belief in what happens when all is said and done and we are no longer in these physical bodies..

 

[Nancy]

ha well neither was i? that is shorthand for 'stop being a determinist'
takes two eyes to focus on the literal, etc

well, playing with the concept to appear to cater to those who seek immortality (the world) while forwarding the Good News

manipulating the concept we know as 'death' into one known as 'spiritual death' and manipulating the timing to baptism rather than end-of-life, and installing several caveats to insure the point gets across, no one has ever gone to heaven, only one immortal, all go to the same place, prolly a hundred of them?
why do you say "before physically dying" though? i would encourage you to spend a day or so testing this premise next to Scripture and Life, More Abundantly

"well, playing with the concept to appear to cater to those who seek immortality (the world) while forwarding the Good News <--- 2 Corinthians 5:8
Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. <--- And, where IS The Lord? In heaven at the right hand of the Father where I believe we (Christians) will be in some capacity-in our new, spiritual bodies. And, if it really IS "good news", what is there to hope for if no eternity future with Jesus?

manipulating the concept we know as 'death' into one known as 'spiritual death' and manipulating the timing to baptism rather than end-of-life, and installing several caveats to insure the point gets across, no one has ever gone to heaven, only one immortal, all go to the same place, prolly a hundred of them?"
Yes, nobody but Christ has gone to heaven, that does not mean that in the future that we will not "ever be with Him.."

 

[bbyrd009]

So, you are saying that you think there is no "afterlife" from this horrid earth? This is it?

not at all! i have no idea, and i am not interested in getting one is what i am saying. My "afterlife" started when i came up out of that water! Well, forty years later, but that was my fault i guess lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Did not the rich man ask Jesus "What must I do to be saved" And the word itself, is in the bible hundreds of times...save/saved/salvation...

yes, not denying that, i certainly hope i am saved, but would never claim i am saved, not sure i could explain why though, sorry. Something about the pride factor i guess. I also cannot say that i am the most humble guy who ever lived, even if i was, right. So kinda like that maybe. Scripture does a lot of work to entice ppl into believing that they can deem themselves saved for a good reason, imo, namely so that the wise can ID themselves to the rest of us; the 'hundreds of times' is even a clue imo. One can as easily slip back into their old man and become lost again in a second imo, as all those in the Promised Land assure us every time we open a Bible.

but "saved" to you still likely means "going to heaven when i die," and i even technically agree, only the defs are diff @ "heaven" and "die" at the very least, at least if you think you know what you will become after you literally die?

 

[bbyrd009]

Would not "ego" simply mean "personality" in that sense?

i guess a lot of ppl think this, but ego is not personality. Do our dogs lack personality?

wish I had a clear view about your belief in what happens when all is said and done and we are no longer in these physical bodies..

of course, the whole world is obsessed with that right, Pharaohs and Emperors initiated vast salvation machines with many sacrifices etc to aid them in this afterlife of immortality they believe they might attain, right. Personally i would be deathly afraid that God would honor my desire there and i would thus miss out on...whatever He had planned, but as you already know there are only too many Christian believers who would be only too happy to inform us in intricate detail what will happen to us then, if that is what you really want.

They know what they will become, and i do not yet know what i will become, so i don't expect my pov to be as popular fwiw

 

[bbyrd009]

Corinthians 5:8
Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.

you read this one way but i read it another wadr, guess you have already heard it tho

And, where IS The Lord? In heaven at the right hand of the Father where I believe we (Christians) will be in some capacity-in our new, spiritual bodies. And, if it really IS "good news", what is there to hope for if no eternity future with Jesus?

um, Life more abundantly today is really all i can handle, seems like believers all claiming the sky is falling could use a dose of that tbh

 

[Nancy]

you read this one way but i read it another wadr, guess you have already heard it tho

I just see no point in anything unless we have HOPE of living in His presence in new bodies and totally spiritual in nature. What is there to even look forward to?

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, nobody but Christ has gone to heaven, that does not mean that in the future that we will not "ever be with Him.."

today has enough in it for me! And once "today has enough evil in it" is understood dialectically "today has enough joy in it" too i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I just see no point in anything unless we have HOPE of living in His presence in new bodies and totally spiritual in nature. What is there to even look forward to?

1. not meaning to be deliberately obtuse here, but what part of that are you still looking forward to?
2. personally i much prefer "the eye hasn't seen, nor the ear heard all of the stuff God has in store for us" over any person's descriptions of new bodies and totally spiritual and living in His presence wadr. Remember that even if you know better now, you were invariably surprised when your anticipation did not meet with reality whenever you imagined some upcoming visit to a new place or some new situation, right. Like adulthood even, or you name it really. "It's just like i imagined" becomes a sign even