I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man

[amigo de christo]

The purpose of the Bible is to introduce us to God. Many people treat the Bible as if it WERE God.

Treat the bible as though it contains the VERY WORDS of GOD . oh wait IT DOES . get in it and learn it well .
And stay in it all the days of your life . For , shhhh , the wolves are always on the prowl .
heed not the voice of the WIW Wolves IN WOOL . and believe me they are many .

 

[amigo de christo]

It has got so bad that todays version of jesus , todays version of love love love
them people would treat the biblical GOD as though he were satan
the biblical christ as though he were anti christ
and the true apostels as though they were the wolves in wool . BOY DO WE GOT PROBLEMS in many houses commonly called
churches . my advice remains steadfast and the same , GET IN THEM BIBLES and stay in them bibles .

 

[Bob Estey]

Oh its more than just that . Get in it and stay in it . for many decievers do abound .
And we know the world is decieved . the decievers i do speak about , ARE WELL WITHIN CHRISTENDOM .
Get in the bible and STAY in the bible . learn and grow . Heed those lovely instructions . learn that pattern well .
For many decievers do huff and they puff and they have blown down many churches into the pits of deception .

No, I don't think it's more than that. We learn a lot from it, but that is part of our introduction to God.

 

[Bob Estey]

Treat the bible as though it contains the VERY WORDS of GOD . oh wait IT DOES . get in it and learn it well .
And stay in it all the days of your life . For , shhhh , the wolves are always on the prowl .
heed not the voice of the WIW Wolves IN WOOL . and believe me they are many .

It does contain the words of God and Jesus. They are frequently quoted in the Bible.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The role of women in the Bible has always been quite specific. Even in the creation, the woman was given to the man as a “complement”....or a balancing influence to his manliness was to be her femininity.
Together they were one flesh...a team in producing and educating their children. Role modeling was important because girls learned how to be capable wives from the example of their mothers and men learned to be loving and understanding husbands from the example of their fathers. Children learn what they live, not just what they are told.

In spiritual and family matters there is the headship arrangement......

1 Cor 13:3...
“But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.“

There is a chain of command, so to speak, that even Christ must observe. It is not a position of power but a position of responsibility. Each is responsible to the one above them, so that balance and order is maintained with disputes kept to a minimum. (1 Cor 14:33)

God never intended headship to be dictatorship, which in some households it sadly became. Even in some cultures, women are viewed as second class citizens with no rights of their own.....only what their husband allows. This was never the way it was with Jehovah.
The capable wife described in Proverbs 31:10-31, shows that she was a real asset to her husband, but she did not cross boundaries or compete with him in any way. They were always meant to be a team.

In the congregation, men were to take the role of instructors, and women could teach their children and others about God and his laws and principles....but the family head had all the responsibility for making sure that all were cherished and provided for. Those who took the lead in the congregations were supported by their hard working wives.

 

[amigo de christo]

No, I don't think it's more than that. We learn a lot from it, but that is part of our introduction to God.

If anything we think we are hearing from God
if anything a man is teaching
contradicts what Jesus said or the apostles wrote in them letters and in scripture , then it aint coming from GOD .
Satan twists things . Too many have come in and under his influence have tried to lessen , tone down the dire
need to always be learning in the bible .
Now they do this for one reason . First they dont come in and try and attack the bible .
Rather they do say its a good book etc , but then they begin the ever wise crafity
ways of men to try and make it seem as though what the apostles wrote , some of the things JESUS said
or etc , are not really for us today . That rather they were ideals for that time .
But they do LIE . watch out for them for they are many . They do this in an attempt
to gain the influence over the people they are instructing .
Stay DUG in that bible . They are amongst us and they have an agenda .
You see in order to convince the church to conform to the world , they aint gonna come out and say
HEY CHURCH you gotta conform to the world . OH no , they would be spotted right fast if they said that .
SO what they do is say ...............OH was paul really hearing from GOD when he wrote what he did .
They do this to sway and to convince the church to change with the times . THOUGH they wont say this .
But this lamb aint buying a word they have to say .
Lets read corinthains and see what paul said , then notice he said if any man think himself
spiritual then let him acknowledge that these are the commandments of THE LORD .
Chapter fourteen i do believe . We see earlier where he says something was of his opinion
but he made that clear . You see a man could put away an unbelieving wife . In fact in the law
they did so . HOWEVER paul was simply reminding the church if the unbelieving wife or husband
desired to stay , let them , in other words it was about winning the soul . HOWEVER if they leave let them .
This was pauls own advice . HE said so . However he made sure to say I say , NOT THE LORD .
HE DIDNT say that in other places . SO lets not be so fast to go with the flow of the world and let women become pastors
or leaders over the flock . CAUSE that IS dead wrong .
Men are no better than women . That be for sure and for certain . BUT women simply cannot teach nor ursurp authority
over the man . They cannot lead the flocks . They can help to assist , but cannot lead the church .

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

1 Timothy 2:11-15:


Paul was pointing to himself, not God.


Paul seemed to be expressing his personal reasoning. As an apostle, it did carry some weight at the time given its social environment then. However, I don't think it has to be applied universally to all women today. It was not an absolute command from the Lord.

Should a woman be a pastor of a church?

It is up to Christ, Ephesians 4:


If a woman (or a man) wants to be a pastor in a church, she should seek Christ's calling. It is possible for a woman to be a pastor, particularly in today's social environment.

Women can Pastor girls even younger boys, which they are used to doing as a mother. But this guidance comes alongside a male role model that guides and teaches as well. But once a kid reaches their teens they should be pastored by a male. A woman cannot teach a boy how to be a man.
A problem with inner city kids is 70% of them are fatherless and so they drift into all sorts of trouble, beyond what women can usually handle.
I attended a Four Square church for a awhile. Initially they had associate female pastors for children's church and women's functions. But occasionally they got up and taught the congregation.
>>>Something just seemed off.<<<
I didn't get moved by the Holy Spirit as I did frequently with the Senior Pastor. She was educated and knew what she was talking about. So it wasn't so much the content, she wasn't making errors, I just got the impression that God did not intend for her to be up there. This only occurred a couple times a year. This was their philosophy that in time changed. Now they never allow a woman to teach the whole congregation which was about 700 larger × four weekend time slots. Women know the scriptures as well as we do, it is just that God has ordained men to be in authority and the Holy Spirit speaks through them. Now there have been times and circumstances when men were not available, then God would certainly use women for His purpose. It is just how He ordained civilization to function throughout history.

 

[amigo de christo]

Women can Pastor girls even younger boys, which they are used to doing as a mother. But this guidance comes alongside a male role model that guides and teaches as well. But once a kid reaches their teens they should be pastored by a male. A woman cannot teach a boy how to be a man.
A problem with inner city kids is 70% of them are fatherless and so they drift into all sorts of trouble, beyond what women can usually handle.
I attended a Four Square church for a awhile. Initially they had associate female pastors for children's church and women's functions. But occasionally they got up and taught the congregation.
>>>Something just seemed off.<<<
I didn't get moved by the Holy Spirit as I did frequently with the Senior Pastor. She was educated and knew what she was talking about. So it wasn't so much the content, she wasn't making errors, I just got the impression that God did not intend for her to be up there. This only occurred a couple times a year. This was their philosophy that in time changed. Now they never allow a woman to teach the whole congregation which was about 700 larger × four weekend time slots. Women know the scriptures as well as we do, it is just that God has ordained men to be in authority and the Holy Spirit speaks through them. Now there have been times and circumstances when men were not available, then God would certainly use women for His purpose. It is just how He ordained civilization to function throughout history.

Just stay dug in that bible . The more we stay in it the clearer things become .
GOD did as HE DID and as HE DOES for a reason . peter and pual knew that .
The churches who wake up and follow HIS PATTERN might shrink in number in attendance , but the SHEEP will be fed .
I give a end time call to all , let us return to the holy scriptures , read them as though its the first time
ready and willing to hear from GOD . It was GOD who flipped me around
and it was GOD who put the love for truth upon my heart , thus it was GOD who put me in that bible
for hours daily , every day for over seventeen years now . DO be encouraged .
THERE was a reason , my dear dear friend that it did not SEEEM RIGHT but seemed OFF . THE BIBLE will say what it was .
WOMEN ought not to do such a thing . Just stay dug in the bible .
AND YES , as far as a woman being able to know the scrips as well , IS TRUE , and any woman who does
know them scrips would say , WE WOMEN SHOULD NOT TEACH AND LEAD THE CHURCH . I HAPPEN TO KNOW
women who know very well the scrips , THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING .

 

[CadyandZoe]

1 Timothy 2:11-15:


Paul was pointing to himself, not God.


Paul seemed to be expressing his personal reasoning. As an apostle, it did carry some weight at the time given its social environment then. However, I don't think it has to be applied universally to all women today. It was not an absolute command from the Lord.

Should a woman be a pastor of a church?

It is up to Christ, Ephesians 4:


If a woman (or a man) wants to be a pastor in a church, she should seek Christ's calling. It is possible for a woman to be a pastor, particularly in today's social environment.

Contrary to our translations, Paul is addressing wives, not all women. And he isn't speaking about teaching, he is speaking about "giving instruction". The following is a rough translation made by my good friend Jack Crabtree.

In hesuchia, a wife is to accept instruction in complete subordination. And I do not give a wife permission to instruct or impose her will on her husband. Rather, she is to be in hesuchia. ​

​

For Adam was formed first, then Eve.​

Now indeed, it is said​

​

“Adam was not deceived. But, because his wife was completely ​

deceived, he fell into transgression. Yet, he will be rescued through ​

the child-birth.”​

If they persist in belief and love and sanctity, with sophrosune,​

this is a trustworthy statement​

The following text is the commentary on the passage.

In this particular subsection of Paul’s letter, there are three occurrences of the relatively infrequent
noun ἡσυχία [hesuchia] or of the adjective ἡσύχιος [hesuchios], and two occurrences of the relatively
infrequent noun σωφροσύνη [sophrosune]. These two word groups seem to embody the theme of this
subsection. The point of this subsection is that Paul wants believers to manifest ἡσυχία (hesuchia)
stemming from σωφροσύνη [sophrosune]. Paul uses the noun ἡσυχία [hesuchia] to describe the inner
calm, inner quiet, and restful contentment that an individual has if and when he is not waging battle
against the boundaries and limits he finds placed on his existence—in other words, if he manifests
sophrosune. If one is content to accept whatever circumstances God has placed him in, then he is in a
state of sophrosune, and—as a result—he will experience an inner calm or quiet. Such an inner calm
or quiet is what Paul means to capture by the word ἡσυχία [hesuchia] in this context. Paul believes
that ἡσυχία [hesuchia] should be the prevailing condition of the Jesus-believer’s inner life.


_________________
Edit: I realize that this post is a bit cryptic. I will write a new one tomorrow when I am rested. Sorry about that.

 

[CadyandZoe]

1 Timothy 2:11-14

A [wife] must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a [wife] to teach or exercise authority over a [husband], but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But [Adam] will be preserved through the bearing of children if [he continues] in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.​

​

Paul is not forbidding women from teaching, but instructing married women on their attitude towards their husbands.

I quoted the NASB text and made some modifications to better convey Paul's intent. The NASB may suggest that Paul is forbidding women from teaching, but that is not the case. Instead, Paul is offering advice to wives on how to live with their husbands in a peaceful and respectful manner.

quietly receive instruction . . .
Here the term "quietly" means calmly, contentedly, and without agitation. A married woman should receive instruction from her husband in a calm and content manner, having accepted the fact that God has placed her in that position for a good reason.

to teach or exercise authority . . .
Previously, Paul instructed wives on how to receive instruction from their husbands. In this passage, Paul clarifies that wives are not allowed to give instructions to their husbands. Wives should never exercise authority over their husbands, even if the husband tempts her to take control. Instead, she should resist the temptation and remain calm. It's important for wives not to give their husbands instructions or complain about unfinished tasks. She should resist the temptation to impose her will on her husband.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Paul is not forbidding women from teaching

reference?

 

[CadyandZoe]

reference?

I'm not sure what you want.

 

[TonyChanYT]

I'm not sure what you want.

Do you have any scholarly references to support your claim other than your own reasoning?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Do you have any scholarly references to support your claim other than your own reasoning?

Wrong question. You should ask whether my view is right or wrong. Don't depend on scholars.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Wrong question. You should ask whether my view is right or wrong. Don't depend on scholars.

This is the 3rd and last time I ask you: Do you have any scholarly references to support your claim other than your own reasoning and your own sense of right and wrong? I am looking for some external support other than your own self. Is that too much to ask of you? I am not asking you or anyone to depend only on scholars. I am asking you not to exclusively depend on your own self-logic if you are able to listen to me.

 

[DJT_47]

1 Timothy 2:11-15:


Paul was pointing to himself, not God.


Paul seemed to be expressing his personal reasoning. As an apostle, it did carry some weight at the time given its social environment then. However, I don't think it has to be applied universally to all women today. It was not an absolute command from the Lord.

Should a woman be a pastor of a church?

It is up to Christ, Ephesians 4:


If a woman (or a man) wants to be a pastor in a church, she should seek Christ's calling. It is possible for a woman to be a pastor, particularly in today's social environment.

Paul spoke the inspired word of God and where he took liberty to offer his own thoughts, he so stated such as 1 Cor 7:6; so, in this case Paul was speaking on behalf of God not himself.

Regarding the word 'pastor', it's more often than not misused and the meaning misunderstood. A 'pastor' is NOT synonymous with preacher or minister, but rather is synonymous with bishop, elder, overseer, which a woman cannot be. This position/title is reserved for men.

So, a woman should not be a minister/preacher or pastor in the church according to the bible.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Paul spoke the inspired word of God and where he took liberty to offer his own thoughts, he so stated such as 1 Cor 7:6; so, in this case Paul was speaking on behalf of God not himself.

Regarding the word 'pastor', it's more often than not misused and the meaning misunderstood. A 'pastor' is NOT synonymous with preacher or minister, but rather is synonymous with bishop, elder, overseer, which a woman cannot be. This position/title is reserved for men.

So, a woman should not be a minister/preacher or pastor in the church according to the bible.

I do respect your writing

Let proposition P1 = God does not want any woman to be a pastor today.
P2 = God allows some women to be pastors today.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

 

[RedFan]

This is the 3rd and last time I ask you: Do you have any scholarly references to support your claim other than your own reasoning and your own sense of right and wrong? I am looking for some external support other than your own self. Is that too much to ask of you? I am not asking you or anyone to depend only on scholars. I am asking you not to exclusively depend on your own self-logic if you are able to listen to me.

Is there any serious doubt that 1 Timothy 2:11-14 is addressing wives, not women in general?

 

[DJT_47]

I do respect your writing

Let proposition P1 = God does not want any woman to be a pastor today.
P2 = God allows some women to be pastors today.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

The words are 100% clear in the bible and likewise I am 100% confident in what I stated is correct and consistent therewith. Read 1st Tim 3 and Titus for qualifications of elders/bishops/overseers. And it can be assumed that Paul always spoke the inspired word of God by commandment, and as aforementioned, stated clearly when he spoke by permission and not by commandment.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Is there any serious doubt that 1 Timothy 2:11-14 is addressing wives, not women in general?

Lexically, the Greek word itself is ambiguous. At Biblehub 51 out of 51 translations use "woman". None uses "wife".